Author |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2018 : 15:37:12
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quote: Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Looking for some things to spice up Isis who is by all accounts a thoroughly boring being. Almost no history about her except for her raising osiris from the dead
So a few unusual things I noted. First she is depicted as being dark skinned, while Mulan are olive skinned I think. Dark skin says turami origin to me so maybe I could spin it as she did not travel with the godkings to imaskari (or did but died) and they found this Isis at the source of the river of spears.
Also Isis has a military order called the sisters of life who are part of the guardians of Skuld. Perhaps they are the guardians of Skuld because they protected Skuld from set during the civil war.
I'm also thinking of doing something with the mystic cornucopia. Maybe it is sat atop some kind of magical creature that was bound to the place by elves or turami. Anything really to make Isis and her clergy and temples a bit interesting with some adventure possibilities.
Any ideas
Just to note, many of the Mulhorandi gods are dark skinned, so I'd recommend being careful with associating them to other cultures. Geb (Isis' father), Isis and Nepthys are all dark skinned.
Anhur has "blood red" skin
Osiris has green skin or appears as a Mummy, but this is only after he's returned from the dead I believe. He's also a child of Geb and Nut like Isis/Nephthys/Set
Bast is "bronze skinned"
Horus-Re, Hathor, Sebek, Set, and Thoth are the only ones that actually look like Mulans (assuming their description as "Mulhorandi" means pale skinned), and Set has scales instead of skin and is ALSO a child of Geb, and all except for Hathor have animal heads (and she has cow horns). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2018 : 23:21:00
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What I find interesting is that the Mulan looking ones have animal heads... the brown skinned ones and ones look human. I figure Osiris was probably brown skinned as well prior to his death and "resurrection". The red skinned one looks human, but having 4 arms.
As to Isis being boring, she is a goddess of magic and of weather. I look at her as actually being one of the more interesting females in that pantheon, compared to Hathor and Nephthys. Of course, Nephthys having been married to her brother, Set, and then kicked him out... and him raiding the tombs that her priests are set to guard... does add some interest to the normally mercantile Nephthys. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2018 : 16:24:14
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Another idea for the radical factions of Isis, nephthys, and hathor.
Mulhorand is a predominantly patriarchal society (I'm sure there is a direct quote in the old empires book).
By 1373 however mulhorand has a female foreigner as the next potential queen and general of its armies (Yes I'm taking the actual scenario a bit far but kendera steeldice is certainly taking a leading role in the invasion and has the eye of the pharaoh).
So at some point between 1356 and 1373 there is a cultural or political shift in mulhorand that allows this situation to occur. Given that the pharaoh is involved and he is the supreme authority in mulhorand it could be he made the decision first and that sets the trend for the rest of Mulhorand to follow suit.
So I'm wondering if perhaps the radical groups of the female dominated churches are not looking for female equality somehow. Currently they have little say in the government, unlike the church of osiris which is responsible for the law, and the church of anhurs which is responsible for the armed forces (both of which are hugely important to running a country).
Perhaps these female dominated churches manipulated colleagues in Mulhorands government to hire certain mercenary groups (knowing they contained a sizable proportion of women in their ranks).
I have noted that the guardians of Skuld was filled with priests of anhurs, osiris, and Isis. I've made them the defenders of the palace district in Skuld (where the Pharaoh lives) because the city already has a militia and the role of temples in defence seems more symbolic and for historical reasons.
However Rezim is not going to want Anhurs priests near him (he has been picking on their church a lot). The church of Osiris is the main rival to Horus-'re in terms of political power. The sisters of life might be reduced to admin and fetch and carry roles rather than patrol and defence. This puts them close to Rezim and the Pharaoh (those closest to the king were best placed to manipulate him and hear juicy secrets). So I'm imagining the sisters of life being used by Rezim as his personal servants but in doing so they get access to his dirty document laundry and occasionally get Rezims ear and more importantly the Pharaoh (I hear those foreign mercenaries are very good, and pretty, etc, etc). |
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Alternate Realms Site |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2018 : 00:18:32
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Bear in mind too that Isis is a goddess of goodly magic. Her group can be the group that's about magically securing places, etc... her priestesses might be involved with a sect that hunts down evil spellcasters. They may even have a militant arm of spellcasting priests, paladins, sorcerers, and wizards who personally seek out red wizards as an enemy of the state, or hunt down sects of Set worshippers who are turning magic towards evil, etc... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 17 Oct 2018 : 16:28:33
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good in their society might be termed somewhat towards "not opposing Mulhorandi society and working to support both commoners and Mulans". I say MIGHT mind you. Especially if Isis is seen as a "brown-skinned" goddess, she may accept non-Mulan mages who are loyal to the state into their ranks as mages, sorcerers, priests, druids, rangers, and paladins (note, the druids and rangers piece come from her also being a weather, river, and agriculture goddess... and in second edition, she was known to have mystics). In fact, the "lower classes"/Turami may be more encouraged to serve her in the roles of druids and rangers, whereas the Mulans may be encouraged to serve her as paladins/priests/mages. Sorcerers would be the odd crossover that would occur within both cultures, but more likely amongst the Mulans whose bloodlines have been mixed with divine sources.
The difference between her and Thoth would be that Thoth would be geared towards knowledge gaining, engineering, teaching, and specifically serving the godkings and their servants. The worshippers of Thoth might not be as concerned with the common folk, but they would be heavily concerned with making sure that all Mulans are trained to "rule wisely in the interests of the state" or "lead the untrained in the field" or "engineer/design" things from a desk. That being said, common folk are generally not mages either, and when they find magically capable Mulan individuals they may require that they be trained as mages. Non-Mulans found to possess magical capability MAY actually be excluded from their church, and such individuals might be accepted into Isis' church. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2018 : 13:54:29
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quote: Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I do like the idea of Isis' church helping turami (lower class) spellcasters.
This is just my take but I am moving away from portfolios, it's a non FR concept (In that it applies only to gods) and it reinforces a god centric model of religion that I wish to avoid. So thoths church provides for the registration and monitoring of all non religious spellcasters as well as the maintaining of southern magic (transcribing magic into it and preventing the secret code from escaping into common use). His church doesn't stop other churches from welcoming spellcasters of any kind into their organisation but as a service, the church of thoth is responsible for all spellcasters (registration etc). This forms part of its duties to the state of Mulhorand. The church of Isis therefore can offer no administrative service to good or nature spellcasters (Not that I distinguish between them because those are game rules and not part of the world just part of the game played in that world).
I only have 3 broad distinguishing roles in the world, warrior, expert, and magic user. If you are a priest you are fine in your own religion. If you are not a priest and you use magic you need to register with the church of thoth or face punishment (loss of hands if repeatedly casting spells).
Now spellcasting is of course the preserve of the rich and therefore upper classes (Yes there are some poor magic users but they are limited in number). The church of Isis welcoming certain types of magic users from poorer backgrounds is a good way to explain it's patronage of "good" spellcasters
I know you don't want a god-centric model, but within Mulhorand, that's the basis of their culture (and we may be talking semantics here). Religion IS the state.... not the reverse where the state defines a religion that they like and may change with a new ruler.
One thing that is good to be remembered with Mulhorand and is a bit unique TO Mulhorand, and its a major reason for why Thay broke away from them, is that all spellcasters of any kind are REQUIRED to serve the state (aka the godkings) for a portion of their time. So, yes I agree that Thoth's church should be responsible for identifying magically capable individuals, and an additional task of theirs should also be "allocating" their required work. Wizards and sorcerers in Mulhorand aren't allowed to do what they want for extended periods (of course, there might be granted exceptions for a wizard say crafting a magic item... but such a break would have to be requested and granted, and may even require some kind of debt in either a monetary or reciprocal time creating another item for the state).
So, yeah, I think we can agree we like the idea of Isis training a bunch of "lesser" spellcasters that Thoth's church doesn't want to sully their hands with (after all, if they advance in skill slowly... someone has to magically "dig the ditches" per se), but Thoth's church turns around and uses those resources in service to the state in more mundane matters (such as helping magically build or repair a pyramid or stronghold or dam or irrigation canal). The Mulan mages probably get the "better" or "more exciting" jobs handed down by the Thoth "taskmasters" that are "seen" by the populace to prove why they should remain in power. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2018 : 16:51:25
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I am imagining a point in time when Horus-re became Pharaoh and set about restructuring the government of mulhorand. He created these government departments to deal with magic, trade, defence, agriculture, etc. But rather than give them to government departments to handle, he contracted them out to the churches. So Thoth's church volunteered for magic, Anhur for defence, etc. Now the churches have to still obey government policy, it is their job to implement it. When spellcasters get out of control the Pharaoh demands to know every spellcaster in the land. Thoths church creates the register.
By making the churches part of the state he bound them to it and ensured their loyalty. The churches got money and promotion from the state which ensures the churches of Mulhorand are much more powerful for their size when compared against western churches. This also explains why mulhorandi gods are so powerful despite their smaller worshipper base.
I don't distinguish between arcane and divine from a gaming rules point of view. Instead if you are part of a church of Mulhorand you are registered anyway and your spellcasting is controlled by that church. If you are freelance then you must register with the church of thoth and obey the rules set out by them.
I'm deliberately leaving dnd gaming rules out of the world because I don't believe a world should ever be bound by the rules of the game, the rules are just a means to play in that world and interpret it, any rules can be used to be honest. |
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Alternate Realms Site |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
|
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2018 : 21:05:11
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Well after a request for something on Tefnut I went off on a tangent and came up with the Temple of Lost Gods.
So Tefnut, Nut, Shu, and Ptah have no presence in Toril (according to canon), but that only works in the godcentric model of the realms.
In this version anyone can worship whoever they want (and receive spells, because you never know who you are receiving spells from). So if people wanted to worship Tefnut they could. But they don't.
So Tefnut had to either be unknown, or dead. So I'm killing Tefnut, Nut, and Shu off during the liberation of the Mulan from Imaskar.
Anubis survives to the Orcgate Wars (thanks to Tom Costa's article on Ancient Gods) because he is known as the guardian of dead gods and presumably was the god of death before Osiris became so in -1048 DR.
So Anubis establishes the Temple of Lost Gods in the Cliffs of Leaping Horses before the Orcgate Wars. A place guarded by his Divine Minions, where mulan could come to pay their respects to the long dead gods of Mulhorand.
Its location was lost following the civil war of Mulhorand (-1048 DR), and the reason is because the entire coastal shelf of Mulhorand is unstable (owing to the dwarves' use of the Elder Rune of Destruction long in the past). Every time the ship of the gods erupts or an earthquake strikes, a large chunk of Mulhorand's cliffs collapse into the sea (actually an entire section of the Underdark collapses so the sea floor lowers by a large chunk). The Temple of Lost Gods (and the settlement it was situated near) just fell into the sea one day. People have looked for it ever since but none have thought to look in the Alamber Sea for the temple.
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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 23 Oct 2018 21:06:05 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2018 : 21:38:25
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Added in a writeup on Anubis, which thanks to a few ideas from Tom Costa's Ancient Gods article, I have made a powerful parasite on the Astral Plane.
Anubis was the God of the Dead of Mulhorand, but he died during the Orcgate Wars, and the miracle of Osiris' death and return meant that the Mulan chose to revere Osiris as God of the Dead instead.
Anubis didn't die properly, he instead achieved true godhood (perhaps a secret he learned from the Book of the Dead). However the sudden decline in worship put his newly ascended form in immortal peril. Anubis discarded his divinity and became stuck between planes (unable to reach the material plane as he had no body, and barred from the outer planes as he was no longer a true god), there he feeds upon the remaining divine energies of those others who failed to achieve/survive true godhood.
Anubis' high temple was located in Akorbil, a city along the Cliffs of Leaping Horses that sank into the sea around 1050 DR. His remaining church dwindled or was absorbed into the Church of Osiris.
He has one surviving devout worshipper, Betita Akhanubis who was at one time the Divine Incarnation and a Divine Minion (as a firstborn son of Anubis he was effectively immortal so he gave up his position and underwent the ritual of Abetlaran after many centuries). Betita guards the Temple of Lost Gods (in Akorbil, beneath the waves of the Alamber Sea). Betita receives visions (he believes are from Anubis), and so still reveres the godking, but some of these visions are disturbingly violent.
https://alternaterealmsblog.wordpress.com/home/religion/mulho-untheric-pantheon/anubis/ |
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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 24 Oct 2018 21:43:55 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 15:10:07
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quote: Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well after a request for something on Tefnut I went off on a tangent and came up with the Temple of Lost Gods.
So Tefnut, Nut, Shu, and Ptah have no presence in Toril (according to canon), but that only works in the godcentric model of the realms.
In this version anyone can worship whoever they want (and receive spells, because you never know who you are receiving spells from). So if people wanted to worship Tefnut they could. But they don't.
So Tefnut had to either be unknown, or dead. So I'm killing Tefnut, Nut, and Shu off during the liberation of the Mulan from Imaskar.
Anubis survives to the Orcgate Wars (thanks to Tom Costa's article on Ancient Gods) because he is known as the guardian of dead gods and presumably was the god of death before Osiris became so in -1048 DR.
So Anubis establishes the Temple of Lost Gods in the Cliffs of Leaping Horses before the Orcgate Wars. A place guarded by his Divine Minions, where mulan could come to pay their respects to the long dead gods of Mulhorand.
Its location was lost following the civil war of Mulhorand (-1048 DR), and the reason is because the entire coastal shelf of Mulhorand is unstable (owing to the dwarves' use of the Elder Rune of Destruction long in the past). Every time the ship of the gods erupts or an earthquake strikes, a large chunk of Mulhorand's cliffs collapse into the sea (actually an entire section of the Underdark collapses so the sea floor lowers by a large chunk). The Temple of Lost Gods (and the settlement it was situated near) just fell into the sea one day. People have looked for it ever since but none have thought to look in the Alamber Sea for the temple.
Actually SOMEWHERE, I know there's mentioned a ruined temple of Ptah in the old empires region (think in southern Unther actually). I wish I could remember where, but I noted it a few years back on the forums. It may have been one of the online articles. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11830 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2018 : 15:26:26
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quote: Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Into my next random mulhorandi god. Apshai is mentioned off and on but has no proper basis in canon that I know of.
His insect depiction doesn't really fit the mulhorandi theme (which are animal headed gods not a purely insectoid god).
My initial thoughts are to link apshai to the spellweavers that inhabited this region long before the humans and sarrukh.
It could be that apshai was the last surviving spellweaver of the node that existed on Toril. Maybe Ra and Anu and Enlil encountered him in the Fuirgar. Or alternatively Apshai is the imaskari slave pidgin corruption of Jergals spellweaver name. The imaskari encountered Jergal long ago (see GKs article) and so maybe the slaves gave him a name and worshipped him sort of. That worship persisted in murghoms and semphar, so when mulhorand conquered them we have apshai reintroduced to the Mulan.
He could have a few shrines in murghoms that are actually spellweaver portals.
Just curious for some clarification, so you know of no canon reference to Apshai for the realms, but you wanted to add one? Or is it the other way? I ask because IF there are some kind of canon references to Apshai, I'd be interested in using Apshai in a similar way you described (i.e. god of some insect like races). I would also note Apshai is a bit more beetle like than mantis like in the references I'm seeing, and might be more like a "scarab". However, it could be seen as an "eater of the dead"/carrion beetle, so it could fit with Jergal like that having a slightly different portrayal/form in this pantheon. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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