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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 23:05:47
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Hail to thee
How the other fellow DM s of the realms work I wonder
so
I have a question but please tell about the styles you prefer
My question is:
Do you lead your players by encounters and rumours to a knowlage or let them do what they have in their mind?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 23:36:06
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| I do both. :) I make up four or more rumors, gossip, tales, books, notes, message board flyers, broadsheet articles, etc, and if the party want's to follow them they can. But the PC's also have free will to do what they want since every PC in my game has to have goals or background. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2004 : 23:41:44
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| I do the same as Kuje. Freedom to the players, and adventure hooks as back-up plan if the players feel that they have gotten stuck on what they want to do idea-wise. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2004 : 00:04:22
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How do ya organise those rumours fellas?
Do put something wrong among them or anything else?
I also give my player freedom between choices but it prevents them from making mistakes. They go the same checkpoint in a different way.
Yeah, I want them to make mistakes how can I arrange it without pushing them.
I will give them extra exp if them will decide what the right path is. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2004 : 00:55:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
How do ya organise those rumours fellas?
Do put something wrong among them or anything else?
I also give my player freedom between choices but it prevents them from making mistakes. They go the same checkpoint in a different way.
Yeah, I want them to make mistakes how can I arrange it without pushing them.
I will give them extra exp if them will decide what the right path is.
Well it depends on where the PC's are. If they are in Shadowdale then there is the message post in the middle of town. Flyer's, love letters, lists of people seen in town, etc. Waterdeep has thier broadsheets that can do the same as Shadowdale's message post, well as add gossip about merchants, nobles, the Lords, etc.
Um cities also have living criers as well who spread tales, gossip, news, etc.
Books can be used to mark lost ruins, pirate treasure, magical items, dragon lairs, monsters lairs, etc.
NPC's also talk. I mean even in RL people gossip, chat, tell tales, etc. Taverns are good places to seek out info as well.
Are any of these true? Or are they false? Well that is for the PC's to find out or explore.
For example: A group of my current PC's went to a town, and one of them went around the taverns and listened to what people were talking about. There was a tale about a noble in Waterdeep, a tale about druids attacking a town, a tale about a ghost who haunts an alley in town, a tale about a arcane caster who has lost her familiar, and a few others that I forgot.
The party finally decided on the ghost and right now the four of them have split up and they are heading around town while seeking info about it.
When morning comes they are going to head south (unless they forget to and head off in a different direction) and investigate a town that was destroyed by a plague since they found a caravan of undead who were killed by the plague. Little do they know that the plague itself made the people in the caravan into zombies. (You have to love Talona and her diseases. :)) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 07 Apr 2004 00:57:00 |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2004 : 12:37:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
Hail to thee
How the other fellow DM s of the realms work I wonder
so
I have a question but please tell about the styles you prefer
My question is:
Do you lead your players by encounters and rumours to a knowlage or let them do what they have in their mind?
I actually do both.
If there is somewhere I particularly want the party to go I tend to steer them in that direction. I am, however, in the fortunate position of having DM'ed many of my players for over ten years so I know exactly what will make them bite. I can offer a selection of notes on a notice board, for example, and know exactly which of the options they will choose.
If there is nowhere that I have in mind, I simply let them decide. As long as you have a couple of small scenarios ready for use to cover the sessions until they get there, it's not a problem.
The only real problem comes when you are very short on material and the party are simply going from one adventure to the next. In this case you, as the DM, will have to produce the reason for the party to travel - it could be a job offer or a death in a party member's family for example.
The important thing to remember is that if you expect your players to role-play, you have to allow them to. You may steer them in a particular direction but you should always do it in a way that appears that they've made the free choice. |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 00:17:04
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I also want to set them free but what do you do when your players are stock and unable to find any sollutions in a quest of some knowlage for example?
What I meant neither I m nor my pc s are geniouses so they might not think waht I want or I might not give adequate evidence or clues that will lead them further into the quest.
What would you do in that situation?
Would you invent other rumours that might help them or give a clue for them to start another campaign or do you have any other ways?
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 01:27:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
I also want to set them free but what do you do when your players are stock and unable to find any sollutions in a quest of some knowlage for example?
What I meant neither I m nor my pc s are geniouses so they might not think waht I want or I might not give adequate evidence or clues that will lead them further into the quest.
What would you do in that situation?
Would you invent other rumours that might help them or give a clue for them to start another campaign or do you have any other ways?
If they are stuck with the current thing they are trying to figure out then yes you could have them find a note, or a book, or other written work to help them. Or have NPC spread info around that might set the PC's back on track.....
Since I DM on the fly, I never really have a set place where the PC's need to go. If they head south of Waterdeep for example, then I make up things they hear, see, find, etc, on the fly as they travel south. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 02:20:50
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I do what I've dubbed the Scooby Do approach to plot design. For those familiar with the show Scooby Do, you know that every single episode follows exactly the same pattern. Ultimately, there are bad folks who have come up with a nefarious plan which will ultimately succeed should our heroes not get involved.
I do the same with my games. I get to know the locale, the major npc's, their resources, and desires. I then have one of these groups come up with a plot to attain one or more of their goals. I then figure out how they would implement it and what the rest of the major npc's will do as a result. I decide what will happen if the pc's do not get involved whatsoever. Then I determine a few ways to get the players involved without strong-arming them.
During the game itself, I run pretty free-form and provide opportunities for the pc's to get involved in a particular plotline should they wish. If they do get involved, I improvise based on the resources and capabilities of the npc's involved. When doing this, I really try to keep true to the npc's intelligence, wisdom, and alignment. Some npc's aren't as good at winging it and will really fall apart once they experience some set-backs. Others, thrive under this sort of pressure and are ready to bust out excellent tactics when they are under siege.
Should the players decide to ignore the plothooks, I simply let it unfold and allow them to witness it in action and possibly suffer the repercussions of its success.
Sarta |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 02:41:45
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Hmmm...a little bizarre...
Still, I would think that such an approach would become predictable after a while, at least when you consider the involvement of the same group of players every week...
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 04:00:29
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Hmmm...a little bizarre...
Still, I would think that such an approach would become predictable after a while, at least when you consider the involvement of the same group of players every week...
It only becomes predictable if you throw out only one plotline per game and make it fairly obvious that they NEED to get involved. When there are 5 or 6 running at a time on various timelines and of various magnitudes it becomes far less predictable and much more like real life.
For example, right now several plotlines are occurring in your own town in real life. You will probably not get involved with any of them, but they are going on and you could blunder into one or actively seek to interpose yourself into one or another. Regardless, your involvement in them (or lack of involvement) will be reflected on tonight's news and in the papers tomorrow... or in ten years. Some of them may be very inconsequential and others may have far more impact.
The same is true of the adventurers. While they are free to pursue their own agendas, they are not living within a vacuum. As a DM, it is my job to provide all other elements of their life. It is then their call on how they wish to interact with these elements.
Sarta |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 11:51:03
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PC s need to have fun and we who are privilaged to DM those fellas we are responsible for their entertainment. Scenerios are not very important I guess if the players are not having fun
I ask my players if they like the session and if they have any suggestions after all we are there for eachother. |
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kahonen
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
358 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 13:06:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
PC s need to have fun and we who are privilaged to DM those fellas we are responsible for their entertainment.
Roewyn, you ask questions as if you are an inexperienced DM and yet you have summed up in a single statement the thing that many DMs take years to discover (or don't discover at all). As you say, you are responsible for their entertainment and this is indeed a priviledge.
If you DM your games with this attitude, your players will enjoy themselves and keep coming back for more. What's more, they will forgive your inexperience.
It sounds as if your party are inexperienced as well. Don't worry so much and take the opportunity to learn together.
I have three basic rules for D&D:
1. The players have a right to enjoy the game. It is the repsonsibility of the DM to make this happen.
2. All players have a right to enjoy the game. It is the responsibility of the other players to make this happen.
3. The DM has a right to enjoy the game. It is the responsibility of the players to make this happen.
(Rule 2 may seem a bit strange. What his means is that all of the players have a right to expect that other players enjoyment of the game will not stop their enjoyment.)
If you consider these three rules, you will realise that just about all problems that occur in a game can be solved by application of one (or more of these rules). Consider some problems posted here at Candlekeep recently:
- Two players argue constantly spoiling the game for the others: rules 2 and 3 apply
- One of the players insists on picking other players pockets: rule 2 applies
- The DM shows favouritism towards a player: rules 1 and 2 apply
- The DM doesn't prepare adequately and spoils the session: rule 1 applies
- The players mess around constantly wasting time: rule 3 applies
Sorry for going on a bit here but you have a good attitude to the game and I believe in giving credit and encouragement where it is due. Don't lose the attitude you have - you'll gain from it as time goes by.
Scenerios are not very important I guess if the players are not having fun
I ask my players if they like the session and if they have any suggestions after all we are there for eachother.
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 13:55:51
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Thats a great analysis, kahonen 
I strive to make the game as enjoyable as possible as a DM. Sending the players through a variety of emotions ("panic" being a favorite  ) is very important to me. Notice I said the "players", not "characters"....its something else entirely to panic the players, it means youve succeeded in drawing them deep enough into the situation and atmosphere. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 16:42:29
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Thank you kahonen for your compliment but
I should be warned by my players for the rule 1 because I m very lazy and busy to be prepared well and I don't know be be prepared generally( I m a more sponteneous character :)))
I write the scenerio, and bring a book or print out about the region and important things but I live the rest to the game.
How do you prepare yourselves to the games or what is being prepared well?
Rad, you are most right about atmosphere
but it is very hard for me to build have you got any adivice about this? |
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2004 : 19:18:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Roewyn
Rad, you are most right about atmosphere
but it is very hard for me to build have you got any adivice about this?
Hmm, I guess emersing yourself in FR and the fantasy genre for 20+ years will help 
Being a good DM and being able to set the atmosphere does take a lot of practice and takes a certain type of person. Sorry I cant be of more help, its hard to actually give advice on this issue. |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Elrond Half Elven
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
322 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2004 : 23:07:22
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Roewyn Atmosphere can be one of the hardest things to set up. With my old group we played in my house. This was a good set-up, a dinning table in the extension with a 4' by 4' board set up on it. However one game we have to go to one of the player's house to play as he was watching his younger brother. This game was one the best I've ever played. I loved my old group one the kinks got sorted out, people left and joined, and the campaign advanced we where left with myself DMing and 3 players and an NPC in the party. The three players loved the Role-playing aspect of the game and as such sessions passed where not even a single dice was touched.
Anyway in the game at my friend’s house the set up was different. We where in his carpeted living room, but never used a table. A 'flocked' (Static grass) mat was rolled on the floor this gave us a playing area of 6' by 4' and the four of us lay/sat around this. Despite the playing area being larger it felt as if we where in a closer proximity to one and another. This help to create a jovial atmosphere.
Secondly I had music playing. I always have music playing during a game. Usually the BG/IW series soundtracks or Midnight Syndicate. This particular game it was the Bg 1 sound track. I was running the Secret of Spiderhaunt adventure. However I had created a 'mainline' for each of the players- i.e. The Elf Ranger had set out to find his father, The Halfling thief had stolen a ring of Human influence from a Zhent wizard/trader before the campaign started, and The Wizard was out adventuring- his mentor had left after receiving an urgent letter from some old Adventuring Comrades. I sent letters from different people to the players from time to time. Letters from home, letters from the mentor. I also started a series of unsigned letters to the elf ranger claiming to be from a 'friend' these where often warnings and revealed clues about upcoming adventures.
Needless to say the players came to expect and love the letters- most of these letters where just background material occasionally some of the mentor letters would come with money. I had played several small adventures concerning each of these 'side-lines' in one the adventures helped defend a caravan that was under attack by the Zhents. I made Falco (the halfling) nervous by allowing him to notice the Zhent wizard leading the attack was the very one that he stole the ring from. Needless to say the attack was defeated but the wizard fled and unbeknown to Falco hired a Drow assassin to hunt him down. The assassin followed the party for a while and every so often I would take Falco’s player aside and tell him he thought he saw a moving shadow. His searches would be fruitless but it created paranoia.
As you can see the plot line was very complex. There was an NPC journeying with the party before who was assassinated. Again creating paranoia. The players came to trust the NPCs and treated them as characters- even on certain occasions they would ask to speak to them in private. This way Falco told one of the NPCS a very honourable samurai about his shady past. This all shows how I assembled an atmosphere.
I'm getting off of track now. The day where we went up to the player’s house was the beginning of the Secret of Spiderhaunt adventure. Elwin (The Ranger) received a letter a few games earlier saying, “Beware the skulls” a clue that would unfold later in the game. I used the Baldur’s Gate soundtrack to create the right mood- playing the ‘forest songs’ Falco was sent to scout up ahead and was captured by Zhents. I decided to they would take him to their camp. It should be noted that Falco was quite far in front of the party so I was dealing with him in a separate room. I asked him to wait in there and went through to the players and continued as if nothing happened. After Falco didn’t turn up they went in search of him walking right into an ambush. The party quickly realised what happened to the Halfling. I run an adventure with Falco’s player on his own detailing his escape. He met up with the party later in the next session.
All of this helped to create an atmosphere. Separating the players made the game feel real the letter helped this too. But I hope this illustrates how to provide an atmosphere
Sorry For the Ramblings
Hanx
Elrond
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Once upon a midnight dreary, while i pondered, weak and weary,
Over many a quaint and curious volume of forgotten lore-
While i nodded, nearly napping, suddenly there came a tapping,
As of some one gently rapping, rapping at my chamber door.
-The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe |
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Mystery_Man
Senior Scribe
USA
455 Posts |
Posted - 12 Apr 2004 : 12:38:04
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| I usually have 3 different ways for my players to go before any given session. If they start leaning on on way I'll start stearing them in that direction. The last time I heavily planned for something.....well, the paper is still collecting dust. |
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SoulLord
Seeker
Mexico
62 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2004 : 19:45:22
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my players have a goal to reach Cormyr..... one of this days
But how they get there and the adventures they face while doing so
depend entirely on their choice.
this has caused some sad issues for me as some very good plots wave goodbye to the players with their handkerchief's as they see them riding on the horizon.
this usually makes me prepare at least
a) plot in case they decide to stay wherever they are at the moment
b) plots in case they decide to go to a,b, or c city by a or b means
if even with this they do something i dont expect (what are the chances of that happening sob..)
ill start to improvise
one thing which is esential for me is my laptop with some generators and generic npc's and names along with some files to take all the nesesary notes.
SoulLord |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36787 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2004 : 20:08:43
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To paraphrase someone far more famous than I:
"No DM's plan survives contact with the PCs." 
That is especially true if I am one of those PCs!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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SoulLord
Seeker
Mexico
62 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2004 : 00:15:57
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He he he
Sounds like you would fit nicely with my players
but somehow i doubt your destination is cormyr
SoulLord |
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RogueAssassin
Learned Scribe
USA
207 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2004 : 00:28:31
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I am about to start a new group around June 1. This Topic has helped me out alot with figureing out what i need to do to make this group the one that lasts for a few years. I will be the DM and we have arranged to start having sessions every weekat a friends garage that we are going to e fixing up between now and the first session. I want to use many of the wizards of the coasts adventures, i just fisnished reading "The Ettins Riddle" which looks like a very good adventure from wizards of the coast. I would like to get some of the more expireanced DMs to help me come up with side stories for my campaign(I will probably make a new Topic for this) and would like for some of the older guys to kinda teach me how to run a good campaign.
-The Rogue |
"Spirit. Its a Heros strength, a mothers resiliance, and the poor mans armor. It cannot be broken and it cannot be taken away. This i must belive"---Drizzt Do'Urden |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2004 : 21:17:45
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You all have great ways and believe me they all helped
However the real thing in dming is caring the players for me. Because we don't have fun unless they have fun. And of course being prepared. Noone likes a dm looking into phb for 5 minutes in the middle of exitement. We need to keep the pace.
And I started using giving info to only one or two player in the middle of a fight. For example when my fellow players were fighing with bandits the elf ranger of the band noticed a covering sniper aiming to one of elf's comrade. I passed this info by a written note and wanted him to responde immidiately. He kicked his opponent and in the same round jumped towards his comrade. the fighter who was about to be hit by sniper's crosbow heard that and the next thing he heard was he was lying on the ground. He was furious and when started threating the elf killing him an arrow hit the enemy he was fighting. That really spiced things up.
But as for seperating the players who do you manage it? I am still unconfortable about seperating players. I cannot divide quests in to two sessions for I have only 3 players and them playing together will ruin every suprise info for all of them would have heard everything. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 18:00:18
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If you find you do need to "herd" your players in a certain direction, churches are great for it. Usually, there is at least one religious character (I hope the cleric) and having the church help direct him can work wonders. It works as well for paladins or even any religious character. It doesn't have to be direct orders, but even just someone asking them for a favor. The favor doesn't even have to be in the same topic. It can be to check in on an old friend that the high priest hasn't heard from in a while. It turns out that the old guy is fine, but the adventure hook that you wanted to dump on the players happens on the way back from checking. Other organizations work great too, but churches are always present.
When I create a campaign, I usually think of the overall plots and threads for the game, and then fill in the details. As an example, I am running a game in Tantras before the ToT. The Cult of the Dragon is trying to muscle in on the underground of the city. The Greyclaws are trying to resist, and there are problems. With that, I then like to use premade modules and Dungeon magazine issues (as I have a ton of them) and sprinkle in home brewed events, as well. Now, these two groups are going to fight each other wether the players get involved or not. I leave it up to the players to decide, except that usually one side or the other wants to try to sucker the players to get involved somehow. Just recently, the Greyclaws assasinated a head merchant of the Cult and blamed it on one of the party members. They had to track down the real assasin to clear the character's name. In the process, they are also weakening the Greyclaws and helping the Cult.
This helping the Cult will have an overall effect of improving the Cult's position in Tantras. I then plan on having the new merchant leader of the Cult try to villianize the rogue's guild in the city and try to galvonize support against the theives. No one really knows what is going on, and the Tormites will sure to join in the fun. The head Cult merchant will try to marry into the noble families with his daughter in an attempt to gain inroads to the city. The Greyclaws will try to kidnap her. The party will be hired to get her back. The merchant will hire the party to work against the Greyclaws at all oppurtunities. The Greyclaws will fight against the players. All in all, the players will work against the lesser evil and help usher in the larger evil of the Cult of the Dragon. After that, crime is going to skyrocket and greater mischeif will ensue.
So, the player have recently been hired by a noble to run to Ravens Bluff, where they get suckered into a Dungeon adventure. When they get back, they will get caught up in the excitment of the various intrigues going on. The party doesn't have to participate in them, but they will all happen one way or another. The party's paladin will not be able to help himself and drag the whole party into the giant mess. It will be fun. |
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 20:59:16
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It seems so temples are great as for jobs they offer. Thanks for reminding.:))) and paladins can be the only quest.
My players are renegades now they have problems but I have more.
Atmosphere and tension is the heart of that kind of game.
I hope I will work it out.
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SoulLord
Seeker
Mexico
62 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 22:06:51
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Something that can also be of use is
* prophecies which can come from
- Dreams to one or more characters
- Priests
- Fortune tellers
- Oracles
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Roewyn
Learned Scribe
114 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2004 : 22:21:26
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yeah these are good hooks indeed. but I don't know what an oracle would say.
Does she simply say a rumuor which is about an event that will occur in future or does she say sth about the players' future. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2004 : 20:44:58
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I always have mystics and oracles give what seems to be cryptic advice, but once at the proper time/place, it seems to work out fine. I think that the best example of this is in The Matrix. Sure, it is kinda cheesy to bring up this example, but it shows a great example. I am thinking of when Nero is told to "Follow the white rabbit." This makes no sense, until he sees the white rabbit tattoo on that lady. So, I would have oracles and other fortune tellers (who's patron god is Selune) give really odd bits of info to lead the players into good situations. It adds a decent choice for gods and other powers influencing characters. O
f course, you could have demons and devils posses people and give bad advice. They would have to start off giving good advice before turning evil, but that is a cool trick. |
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Simple Question about Dm ing
