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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 17:09:28
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I know DarkSun had Muls...
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 17:27:34
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| Yes, there are the D'Tarig in the Anauroch desert, along the Desertsmouth Mountains. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 03 Mar 2017 17:29:08 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 18:38:19
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Half-dwarves are functionally identical to full blooded dwarves. The only difference is that they are a head taller than full bloods. If a half-blood mates with a full blood, the result is a full blood dwarf (this is the same as if a half-elf and elf have children). A half-blood who mates with any other race has half-blood children.
All of this comes from FR 11 Dwarves Deep, if you're curious. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2017 : 18:41:24
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From page 6 of Dwarves Deep, the dwarven sourcebook Ed wrote for the Realms:
quote:
Humans, gnomes, and halflings are cross-fertile with dwarves. Elminster says elves and dwarves can have issue as well. Common in Ardeep, Eaerlann, and Myth
Drannor of old, this is unheard-of today.
and
quote:
"Half-dwarves" are not a distinct race. Save for their height (a head taller than most dwarves) all offspring of unions between dwarves and other races look and
act (and are treated in the rules) as pureblood dwarves. Dwarven halfbreeds always have the stocky build and hirsute appearance of purebloods.
The D'Tarig may or may not be a dwarf-human hybrid... From page 32 of Anauroch, also by Ed:
quote:
These diminutive folk (averaging just over four feet tall) may be descended from marriages between humans and dwarves in the Tethyamar area. They are the desert folk most commonly encountered by outlanders.
There have also been dwarf-elf crossbreeds, known as dwelves. We've had at least a couple of them named.
One was Isinghar "Feyrune" Ironstar, described as a dwelf runecarver and archmage of Ammarindar, who was one of the secondary casters in the raising of the mythal over Myth Glaurach. This is from the Myth Glaurach article that was part of the Mintiper's Chapbook series.
The other named dwelf was Dlarbraddath. We don't know if that was his actual name; we just know that a section of Myth Drannor was "named for the gardener who laid it out, a being said to have an elven mother and a dwarven father!" (page 19, Campaign Guide to Myth Drannor, Ruins of Myth Drannor boxed set). (I think it more likely he was named Dlarbradd.)
Dwarves Deep does not say half-dwarves are sterile, like muls; it in fact mentions what happens when they breed.
About dwelves, Steven Schend said:
"As stated above (and like half-elves), they favor and adopt the lifestyle/culture under which they are raised. Same goes for which gods they revere.
Both elves and dwarves have serious cognitive dissonance when it comes to dwelves, as (unlike half-elves or half-orcs, IMO) there's no set form or expectation for how they'll look. It's anyone's guess if you'll end up with a dwarf's body size and shape with elven features and ears or an elf's body but stocky vs. svelte and rather hairier than the norm. Dwarven parents may mourn their child's inability to grow a decent beard, thanks to their elven half, while elves may grumble that the child is more interested in the dirt rather than the tree from which it springs. Most likely, they're only comfortable among some societies that embrace acceptance and unity (like Myth Drannor or Miyeritar or elsewhere)." |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 03 Mar 2017 18:42:16 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2421 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2017 : 01:01:01
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Doesn't say they don't have mules' problem at all, however. Just not always infertile.
And not even this much for "dwelves". |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2017 : 01:20:10
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Doesn't say they don't have mules' problem at all, however. Just not always infertile.
And not even this much for "dwelves".
Dwarves Deep says:
quote:
If halfbloods mate with pureblood dwarves, the offspring will be a pureblood. If halfbloods mate with another halfblood or a nondwarf, the offspring will be a halfblood.
There's no mention of infertility; it is simply assumed there will be offspring. With that being the case, I see no reason to assume that Faerūnian half-dwarves have anything in common with muls. It's not like Dark Sun races are all exactly what's in the PHB, anyway.
It's pretty much the norm in the Realms that various races can interbreed; infertility really doesn't seem to be a thing, in the Realms. I see no reason to assume it's a factor, especially when we know of half-races for whom it isn't a factor. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2017 : 02:13:45
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Easy fix.
Originally in FR, Weave = Magic = 'Life". We can extrapolate this outward (especially given FR's now-known significance) that somehow 'pure' magic (before its goes through all sorts of 'planer strainers', Weaves, etc) is the 'stuff of life' (whatever that actually means). In a magic-heavy world, EVERYTHING can crossbreed, because magic makes it all 'work' (one of the Xanth series' most basic premises).
Low- magic worlds would have problems (like Earth). Sure, you can get an occasional 'mothman' or 'batboy' (just read the National Enquirer), but for the most part, only creatures of the same species can breed.
Dead-magic worlds (or near-dead enough for it not to matter) would not only have NO cross-species breeding, normal procreation would probably be far less fecund. That would be Athas' situation.
And Wooly, I think i just hit upon a psuedo-science reasoning for the Thunder Blessing AND why dwarves can use magic in 3e - the two are CONNECTED.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Mar 2017 20:25:08 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2017 : 04:56:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And Wooly, I think i just hit upon a psuedo-science reasoning for the Thunder Blessing AND why dwarves can use magic in 3e - the two are CONNECTED.
I think they should be connected, anyway -- I've long maintained that with the Thunder Blessing, they gave themselves a way to explain dwarves suddenly using magic, and then failed to use it.
A few weeks ago, I got bored and wrote a dwarven origin myth that referenced the lost dwarven homeworld mentioned in Spelljammer lore, discussed why dwarves didn't like magic, and addressed the sudden rise in them using magic. I'm eventually going to clean it up and share it out here.
There's nothing at all canon in it, other than the reference to the Thunder Blessing, but I think it did a nice job of tying together the previous dwarven difficulty with arcane magic, the oddball cases we had of dwarf wizards, and the change to it all. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2017 : 20:33:33
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Well, my thinking here was that Dwarves were denied use of magic (we have that 'thing' about the Nether scrolls') for whatever reason - maybe Moradin thought it had a 'corrupting influence' (seeing as how much trouble the Elves kept getting into because of it).
And over time, the Dwarven race began to decline (see my theory above). By 'shielding' them from magic, he caused them to have low birth rates. So he finally corrected his mistake, and *Blamo*, dwarven babes are popping-out mini-dwarves left & right.
ANNNNND... they could now use magic (as of 3e).
Not that we didn't have instances of certain special ones doing so before, but there could be LOTS of explanations for that (not a pure-blood dwarf, etc). It could even be something along the lines of how I figured smokepowder worked - Ao made a rule that gunpowder doesn't work, and then some clever priests/mages figured out a ritual to block that edict (thus, both have the same formula, but smokepowder has a dweomer on it that it allows it to 'break the rules'). So something along those lines may have happened - it could have been an enchantment elves/humans used to block Moradin's edict, or it may have even been a byproduct of the magic-enhancing powers of mythals (in some cases).
It could have even been something as simple as a dwarf 'renouncing' Moradin... which is why dwarven mages were practically unheard of pre-3e. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Mar 2017 20:34:49 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2017 : 02:47:09
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I would've thought it more likely for an elf and an orc to produce issue than for an elf and a dwarf.
No dwarf in his/her right mind would ever want to bed an elf. Or allow an elf into his/her bed. Dwarves are sensible folk, after all. Quite pragmatic. Known for their sturdy aesthetic sense, they tend to view the "tall" races as gangling, awkward, disproportionate, and unbalanced. Plus we all know that dwarves can hold their liquor quite well.
Orcs on the other hand ... orcs aren't so sensible. More given to unthinking passions and lusts. Known for bullying, dominance, and submission. With quite a reputation for simply taking what they want and forcing others to comply with their demands. And elf-orc offspring (an "orelf"?) seems far more likely to me than these improbable "dwelfs". |
[/Ayrik] |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2017 : 03:12:41
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All I got to say is that 'young elves like to experiment.... in (magic) college.' 
An orc might be the ultimate taboo, and therefor, something a young (kinky) elf might want to try. Same would go for a dwarf. I could see the orc being willing (even with an elf - they aren't all that choosy about stuff), but a dwarf would take some convincing. Then again, they have a very low proportionate number of females.
What would be less likely? A dwelf, or a dorc? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Mar 2017 03:13:11 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2471 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2017 : 03:29:38
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| And here I though the only half-dwarves were the muls... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2017 : 05:58:56
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Some dwarves would be more than willing to experiment... I'd imagine that a large percentage of adventuring dwarves would be a lot more relaxed about such things than their kin who never leave home.
Elaine Cunningham's dwarf Jill is a great example. Not only was he more than willing to shop around, so to speak, he also expected his new elven buddy to have no issue courting a dwarven lass. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2017 : 07:47:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
No dwarf in his/her right mind would ever want to bed an elf. Or allow an elf into his/her bed.
That's why alcoholic drinks were invented...  |
- Ryan |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2017 : 14:21:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some dwarves would be more than willing to experiment... I'd imagine that a large percentage of adventuring dwarves would be a lot more relaxed about such things than their kin who never leave home.
Elaine Cunningham's dwarf Jill is a great example. Not only was he more than willing to shop around, so to speak, he also expected his new elven buddy to have no issue courting a dwarven lass.
See, THAT I find weird. Its canon (somewhere) that dwarves are "very protective of their females" because of the low birth rate thing.
I find it 'off' that even an adventuring dwarf would be willing to 'pimp' one of their women out to a non-dwarf.
Of curse, the whole 'beard' thing would probably put most non-dwarves off. Elves don't even like beards on males. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2017 : 19:35:50
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Ah, attraction to strange fetishes and taboos aside, I think dwarves too serious and too socially conscious to sleep with elves.
Elves be flighty and frivolous things, they'll do anything with anyone it seems, especially when in the woods and their fickle moods impulsively carry them forward.
Dwarves have much more important things to do than waste time courting elves. They might befriend elves, as needed, after fighting side by side and sharing adventure and all that. But they'd never seriously think of carrying their gruff banter and friendly insults to the next level, not with those sickly malformed beardless nature freaks. Dwarves don't even like nymphs and dryads and other such watery woodsy fey seductresses - or perhaps it's the other way around? or perhaps the antipathy is definitely mutual? - they'd be easier tempted by earthen crafts and elements. Dwarves are not performers, not enjoyers of momentary entertainments nor builders of ephemeral things - they make things that last, they form bonds that last, they commit themselves only to things which are meant to remain through generations. Dwarves would never allow themselves to act in any fashion which could bring scandal and shock and shame to themselves, their families and bloodlines, their clans and strongholds, their gods - illicit attractions might not be entirely unthinkable, but they'd certainly be unconscionable and unspeakable, no dwarf would ever break the endless line for a night of romping and revelry. One can be egalitarian, one can be diplomatic, one can even be sober - but there are limits.
And if a dwarf's behaviour to too contrary to the expectations of his clan, too flippant and frivolous and rudely inappropriate ... well, if the dwarf won't correct his behaviour for his clan then the clan will take action to rectify the dwarf's behaviour instead. And to "clean up" whatever mess or aftermath have resulted ... even the most unsavoury of acts would be less vile than a living dishonour to the race and clan.
And there are dwarves whose actions know no limits. Unsavoury, disgusting, honourless, thoughtless, selfish, little better than rutting animals. They'll go on adventures. They'll drink with elves. They'll do it all. I'm sure it happens all the time, always has, always will. And yet, aside from a few possible freaks, there are essentially no "dwelves" in the Realms - no halfbred demi-race population, no true demi-race population, not any description of solitary outcasts, orphans, or even exotic adventurers who (openly) identify themselves as "dwelves". It seems to me that if dwelves do exist then they are basically recognized as nothing better than common mongrelmen. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Mar 2017 19:45:23 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2421 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2017 : 20:37:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Dwarves Deep says:
quote:
If halfbloods mate with pureblood dwarves, the offspring will be a pureblood. If halfbloods mate with another halfblood or a nondwarf, the offspring will be a halfblood.
There's no mention of infertility; it is simply assumed there will be offspring. With that being the case, I see no reason to assume that Faerūnian half-dwarves have anything in common with muls. It's not like Dark Sun races are all exactly what's in the PHB, anyway.
That's silly much more than can be said about either species with their own, no?
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, my thinking here was that Dwarves were denied use of magic
[...]
It could have even been something as simple as a dwarf 'renouncing' Moradin... which is why dwarven mages were practically unheard of pre-3e.
Like... Duergar?
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Orcs on the other hand ... orcs aren't so sensible. More given to unthinking passions and lusts. Known for bullying, dominance, and submission. With quite a reputation for simply taking what they want and forcing others to comply with their demands. And elf-orc offspring (an "orelf"?) seems far more likely to me than these improbable "dwelfs".
Isn't quite enough to reach "living offspring" stage, however.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
All I got to say is that 'young elves like to experiment.... in (magic) college.'
An orc might be the ultimate taboo, and therefor, something a young (kinky) elf might want to try.
Depends on whether one is a barbaric proper Seldarine-loving, orc-hating elf or some sort of an "apostate" like Belinda Moonglow, or...
In Al-Qadim it was mentioned that interbreeding of the Enlightened is limited mainly due to the expected lack of offspring, except for human-elf and human-orc pairs.
But elves and orcs, while generally don't have anything against each other, differ in tastes enough that "in general, both groups find the concept ludicrous". |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
969 Posts |
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Does Half Dwarven race exist in the F.R.?
