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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 06:55:33
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I would like to compile a list of Realms events that everyone has decided to leave out of their games, or even decided to change, because I want to see what the most popular unpopular events are.
Mine.
1: Spellplague never happened.
2: Shade never fell on Myth Drannor.
3: Myth Drannor was never retaken.
4: Szass Tam was not successful in his conquest of Thay. The Zulkirs managed to defeat him and drive him out. He now resides in the Mere of Dead Men slowly gathering an army of undead.
5: Primordials don't exist.
That's all I have at the moment.
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Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2506 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 07:50:21
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I guess you will get "the Spellplague didn't happened" multiplied tenfold :P For my part, the Spellplague happened. I knew the Realms after the Spellplague happened, so I cannot conceive the Realms without the changes it brought.
To the topic, I'm still deciding this, in fact. For now, in my Realms either the Sundering never happened, or happened in a way that did not changed the Realms as they were in 4e (plaguelands, earthmotes, spellscarred, Laerakond still in Abeir and that stuff). I will also modify some stuff that happened during the Spellplague that did not make sense to me (Mystra did not die, just was taking a nap or something, for instance). |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 30 Jan 2017 10:09:09 |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 08:13:55
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the spellplague never happened
shade never fell on myth drannor.
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why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6405 Posts |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4471 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 09:49:30
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1. Drow Pantheon never died off pre-4e.
2. The Sundering never occurred.
3. Mulhorand and Unether are still stuck in Abeir.
4. Lantan is a thriving submerged aquatic city.
5. Spellplague is still prominent, Mystra is still gone or so the populace thinks.
4. Shade doesn't fall on Myth Drannor.
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Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
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Misereor
Learned Scribe
164 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 11:28:23
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The avatar crisis and just about everything since, especially shadow magic and Shar's rise to prominence.
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What is dead may never die, but rises again, harder, stronger, in a later edition. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3290 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 12:30:04
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| Everything after TOGB to FR 6... with a few exceptions of course. |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 12:41:45
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| My Realms of choice are the 2E Realms ... so I've ignored pretty much everything major that happened after 1367 DR. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 13:19:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I guess you will get "the Spellplague didn't happened" multiplied tenfold :P For my part, the Spellplague happened. I knew the Realms after the Spellplague happened, so I cannot conceive the Realms without the changes it brought.
I also knew the Realms and D&D during 4e--at the end of that edition--(although I already knew about it from VGs that I had played or a couple novels that I had read), however I didn't really enjoy it, and when I decided to read about the changes that it brought, the more I read the more I was turned away from it and towards the former eras.
As for what I ignore, I leave most of the stuff that happened during 3e and 4e out of my game (The only big events that I include are the return of Shade and the reclamation of Myth Drannor). If it blew up things or removed gods, I ignore it.
I also ignore the ToT and Ao altogether, because I just dislike the portrayal of the gods in those novels. I do keep Kelemvor (in a sense), tho, but I do that by changing Myrkul into a more nuanced deity of death. He might have started as a mortal, but divinity changes people. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 30 Jan 2017 16:03:01 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2506 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 14:21:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I also knew the Realms and D&D during 4e--at the end of that edition--(although I already knew about it from VGs that I had played or a couple novels that I had read), however I didn't really enjoy it, and when I decided to read about the changes that it brought, the more I read the more I was turned away from it and towards the former eras.
Well, everyone has different tastes and that is good. A world were all people like the same stuff is boring. In my case, I (and my players) did enjoy 4e and did like the FR version of the Realms that was depicted in 4e (to the point that my players aren't happy with some of the changes they've read in SCAG). I can name a few reasons of why we liked 4e Realms, but this is not the topic for that.
I'm surprised, though, to see people ignoring also 3e stuff... I was under the impression that this was the most loved era of D&D... |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 14:34:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
Well, everyone has different tastes and that is good. A world were all people like the same stuff is boring. In my case, I (and my players) did enjoy 4e and did like the FR version of the Realms that was depicted in 4e (to the point that my players aren't happy with some of the changes they've read in SCAG). I can name a few reasons of why we liked 4e Realms, but this is not the topic for that.
Sure, I didn't mean to dismiss your choice, I only posted that because I saw that we approached D&D/FR about at the same time, yet we had very different reactions. It was more for comparison than anything else.
quote:
I'm surprised, though, to see people ignoring also 3e stuff... I was under the impression that this was the most loved era of D&D...
I personally only do that when those events remove elements for the setting, therefore removing plot hooks and possible storylines, just for shock value, or because the designers didn't what that element in the game anymore--especially when the event only takes away and builds little.
The end of 3e also was just preparatory changes for 4e, it might have as well been part of it. Things like Lady Penitent or Empyrean Odyssey were written with the sole purpose of removing certain things to make way for the 4e Realms. The recalamtion of Myth Drannor was good tho, and it added to the setting--although I didn't like how fast the ruins were cleared, because that event could have provided the plot hook of a new elven settlement and an elven "rebirth" in addition to keeping a large part of the iconic ruins of Myth Drannor. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 30 Jan 2017 16:03:12 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 16:37:32
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I play with almost all up till end of 3ed with a lot of small details changed here and there. I have included return of the Shades and Elves to Myth Drannor but ignoring all that god slaying stuff/Shar stomping.
Irennan: Myth Drannor was cleared fast because three major armys have been there in rapid succession (Shades,Darglareths, Elves). For me it will take some years before they clear it up fully and rebuild it to its former greatness. Heck even the Mythal will be fully restored in 1380 DR. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 16:45:49
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| I know what they did with Myth Drannor, my point was that the designers' decision removed one plot hook when they could have easily kept it. The region was not an easy one to clear (outsiders, Vhaeraunite drow in the thousands, and so on), so there was ample room for PCs to help the elves there. But then, they were already planning to jump 100 years, so I understand why they didn't bother--as I said, this was only part of the preparations for 4e. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 16:53:39
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ALL of them.
IMG, the events in novels and supplements do not impact my games at all, so I don't bother mentioning them. The world is as it was in the OGB, unless there is something I want to use from a later product. I'm not saying none of it happened, or that I haven't moved the timeline forward (the last campaign I ran was set in the 1380's... before the end of 3e and all the info about the Spellplague came out). I did run the starter adventure in 5e, but I don't count that, because it never took-off into a full campaign (MY fault, not the players). In my mind, however, that game took place right after my last campaign, so also in the late 1380's (So I guess the 'Spellplague nonsense' only lasted a year or so, IMG... if I bothered to address it all).
I don't like to limit my options, so I'd rather just ignore stuff, until I deem to 'go there', so that I can cherry-pick from any and every edition (and even other settings). Why limit the possibilities on purpose? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jan 2017 16:54:51 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 17:18:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I'm surprised, though, to see people ignoring also 3e stuff... I was under the impression that this was the most loved era of D&D...
I would expect that the 1E/2E era would be the most popular. It's when the Realms had the most support and some of the best material.
I don't reject all of the 3E stuff... Some can be used as is, like the elven Crusade (though I'd say the Reclamation of Myth Drannor would be a decades-long project, at best). Some can be used with some modifications, like the Dragonrage or the return of Shade. And a lot needs to be ignored, like Lolth's silence or anything involving Shar.
A couple of plot elements ignored in the 2E-3E transition should have been expanded on, not kicked to the curb -- the Harper Schism and the Manshoon Wars.
And as I've mentioned many times, not having a long, drawn-out Thayan civil war was a missed opportunity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Jan 2017 17:20:31 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2506 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 17:31:35
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I guess I got it all wrong for the "3e is cool" stuff in the Edition Wars (such as the creation of Pathfinder and other stuff). But yeah, I can understand why people love 1e/2e.
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Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 18:22:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
I guess I got it all wrong for the "3e is cool" stuff in the Edition Wars (such as the creation of Pathfinder and other stuff). But yeah, I can understand why people love 1e/2e.
Pathfinder was actually born from the transition to 4E, and it was a reaction to the changing ruleset, and not the changes to the setting. However, with the way the setting was changed at the same time as and because of the ruleset, the two are often conflated.
People held on to 3E Realms because it was the most recent version before the 4E Realms, and because it wasn't all bad, despite its flaws. Personally, I refer to it as the Bronze Age of the Realms. 1E was the Silver Age -- things were cool, but not yet at the peak. 2E was the peak, the Golden Age. 3E fell from there, but still had its positive features.
That said, I'm not looking to refight the edition wars -- simply to put a bit of perspective on them, all based on my own opinions.
And as things like the War of the Spider Queen novels prove, my opinions are far from universal. (Very, very disappointed with that series, which in my opinion had poorly edited transitions from author to author, mostly unlikable characters, and only briefly approached being interesting, in like the 4th or 5th book) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 18:28:12
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I get inspired from loads of events written in the Grand History of the Realms (both during and after the Spellplague), or mentioned in novels I own or discussed here. But most don't matter that much unless I use them for a dungeon, an artifact or an item my players interact with. I tend to finagle the dates a lot, to fit my storytelling. My 'Goblin Wars' in the North happened more recently because of some off remark I made in a session not so long ago.
I have seen some events in Novels I couldn't work with because of a previous story line I had in mind. Lolths Silence was interfering with a few sessions in the underdark I had; I needed drow clerics at full power so she never stopped empowering her matrons in my Realms. This left my Realms' Anti-Seldarine stable untill the Spellplague.
During the distasteful spellplague I never played or DMed, but I did find certain aspects of it appealing to ponder. The novels were very good so I kept my eye on the lore for the juicy bits now and then.
The Spellplague allowed me to think about the flexibility it granted me as a DM, and I cherry picked elements such as earthmotes, some aspects of its cosmology and a small amount of the metaplots it presented to include in the realms I like to use.
I retained Mystra's supposed death and the catastrophic destruction of Dweamerheart, but ignored all the racial gods being coopted beings and kept Mystra comatoze. My racial pantheons are far older and more stable interlopers than the pantheon of Torilian native and interloper deities.
I liked the notion that the astral turmoil of Dweamerhearts destruction meant for some of the greater gods that they had to spent alot of energy to keep their astral realms intact, while the quasi and demigods with less stable domains had to walk the surface of Toril to survive. The end result of the Spellplagues cosmological effects resulted in a slighlty more great wheelian cosmology than WotC's ended up with.
The changes in or lack of divine revelations from the Faerunian pantheon infused the clergies with new mysteries and uncertainty about their future, but nearly all survived in some form or another in my realms.
I like the idea of clerics that are invested with divine power, and can't be simply stripped of their power when their god deems it so. A few have been known to go full on heretic and become quasi-divine themselves at epic levels. Erevis Cale and Riven are examples I plan to use in my campaign, as they didn't have a particularly cosy relationship with their patron.
The Sundering eventually didn't change much for me as I already made use of all the published material I own. I haven't bought into the big storylines or novels, so I I haven't decided their merits yet. I'm just glad the vancian magic system is back in a form that I greatly prefer. |
My campaign sketches
Druidic Groves
Creature Feature: Giant Spiders |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 19:51:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would expect that the 1E/2E era would be the most popular. It's when the Realms had the most support and some of the best material.
I don't reject all of the 3E stuff... Some can be used as is, like the elven Crusade (though I'd say the Reclamation of Myth Drannor would be a decades-long project, at best). Some can be used with some modifications, like the Dragonrage or the return of Shade. And a lot needs to be ignored, like Lolth's silence or anything involving Shar.
A couple of plot elements ignored in the 2E-3E transition should have been expanded on, not kicked to the curb -- the Harper Schism and the Manshoon Wars.
And as I've mentioned many times, not having a long, drawn-out Thayan civil war was a missed opportunity.
Would you care to take further your thoughts about Manshoon Wars and Harper Schism?
As for Lloth's silence - it makes sense to me. She needed time to separate her domain from Abyss and with shutting of her fallowers it went faster. She test her subjects often so this might be just another of her test - the strong will survive.
And for Shar - the ending madness is to be ignored but the Shadovars are a new blood for her involvement. It is almost first open veneration of Shar in the open en masse.
I can only agree on Thayan civil war (that is actually raging in my campaign). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 20:02:02
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Lolth's silence was stupid to me. It was such an overhyped thing that ended up with basically Lolth moving to another house. What was the point of tearing her plane away from the Abyss? Why couldn't she do that more slowly, if lending power to her follers was slowing her, instead of accepting to take huge losses? Deities play the long game, it doesn't make sense to me to risk so much just to accelerate such a trivial process.
Also, she lost tons and tons of followers to her rivals, and emerged *immensely* more powerful than before (when, btw, she should have been greatly weakened by that)? And that was supposedly because she had moved away (which should have taken even more power from her to maintain her realm)? Just, what... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 30 Jan 2017 20:05:36 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 20:12:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Lolth's silence was stupid to me. It was such an overhyped thing that ended up with basically Lolth moving to another house. What was the point of tearing her plane away from the Abyss? Why couldn't she do that more slowly, if lending power to her follers was slowing her, instead of accepting to take huge losses? Deities play the long game, it doesn't make sense to me to risk so much just to accelerate such a trivial process.
Also, she lost tons and tons of followers to her rivals, and emerged *immensely* more powerful than before (when, btw, she should have been greatly weakened by that)? And that was supposedly because she had moved away (which should have taken even more power from her to maintain her realm)? Just, what...
That's my beef. With power coming from worshippers, leaving your worshippers high and dry while engaging in an act of auto-cannibalism should not result in coming out stronger. 1+1=2, but in this case, it came out as 1+1=3.
Plus, as I said, the characters from the series were deeply unlikable. And while I realize they are drow and that backstabbing is second nature to them, I'd still expect at least a show of cooperation, instead of constant infighting. I couldn't root for them, because I didn't care about them or their end goal -- and that's not a winning combination for your protagonists.
I also never really got how a bunch of mortals on the Prime were supposed to find out what was happening to their suddenly silent deity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 30 Jan 2017 20:19:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 20:18:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would expect that the 1E/2E era would be the most popular. It's when the Realms had the most support and some of the best material.
I don't reject all of the 3E stuff... Some can be used as is, like the elven Crusade (though I'd say the Reclamation of Myth Drannor would be a decades-long project, at best). Some can be used with some modifications, like the Dragonrage or the return of Shade. And a lot needs to be ignored, like Lolth's silence or anything involving Shar.
A couple of plot elements ignored in the 2E-3E transition should have been expanded on, not kicked to the curb -- the Harper Schism and the Manshoon Wars.
And as I've mentioned many times, not having a long, drawn-out Thayan civil war was a missed opportunity.
Would you care to take further your thoughts about Manshoon Wars and Harper Schism?
It's very simple. They just had to continue the plotlines.
Have a bunch of Manshoons still running around, working against each other, allying with various other factions (we had one hanging out with the Simbul, and another with Halaster!), trying to find a way around the compulsion to kill each other... Lots of potential there. Abruptly ending the Wars removed that potential.
Ditto with the Harper Schism. It could have played out for a long time, with the added delight of scenarios like both sides working towards the same goal but one side sabotaging the other. And with people loyal to the other side in both camps, there was so much potential for intrigue... Instead, Rich Baker decided he didn't like it, so it had to go. And yes, he actually said that's why the Harper Schism was brushed aside. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 20:53:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And yes, he actually said that's why the Harper Schism was brushed aside.
Well, that explains a lot about what went down with the Realms... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36912 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 21:18:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And yes, he actually said that's why the Harper Schism was brushed aside.
Well, that explains a lot about what went down with the Realms...
I know some people here are fans of his work, but there's a reason I do not sing his praises. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 22:45:22
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I like his writing, and I like a lot of his design work, and I also think he was the most honest of the 4e designers - the only one willing to field questions in the insanely hostile post-4e environment that was the WotC boards. That took a lot of character - he never lied, even when things he said got him in hot water (like what Wooly just mentioned). He OWNED UP to everything he was responsible for, and even got blamed for things he had nothing to do with, and handled it all stoically.
That being said, I don't always agree with his design decisions. I didn't like either the Harper Schism (felt contrived) or the 'Manshoon {clone} Wars', which felt a bit cartoonish, IMO, but to each his own. However, I would NOT have just 'swept it away' - thats lazy design. If I worked for the company, and had the power to write canon, I would have carried the storylines out to a logical conclusion (maybe leave 2-3 clones around for future plots), and ended it that way. Even if I don't like a story, I still want it to end properly (whereas I felt most of the late 2e and some 3e stories just got forgotten about).
I'd still love to know who thought having Netheril (the Shades) and (Deep) Imaskar 'return' in 3e was a good idea. Basically took one of the main premises of the setting (everything is built upon the 'bones' of long-lost empires) and just chucked it out the window. Say what you want about the ToT, but I felt the 3e Realms release-lore was more jarring, in some ways (unlike the 3e rules, which were a godsend). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Jan 2017 22:47:06 |
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EltonRobb
Learned Scribe
USA
195 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jan 2017 : 23:27:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I would like to compile a list of Realms events that everyone has decided to leave out of their games, or even decided to change, because I want to see what the most popular unpopular events are.
I run my games using the original 1e boxed set. So take that as you wilt. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2017 : 00:17:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I like his writing, and I like a lot of his design work, and I also think he was the most honest of the 4e designers - the only one willing to field questions in the insanely hostile post-4e environment that was the WotC boards. That took a lot of character - he never lied, even when things he said got him in hot water (like what Wooly just mentioned). He OWNED UP to everything he was responsible for, and even got blamed for things he had nothing to do with, and handled it all stoically.
That's worthy of respect, and I don't criticize his writing myself. However, to me, that decision seems--in all honesty--selfish. If you're part of a team designing a setting, try to focus on developing what you like, not on removing or sweeping aside what you don't like but that other people do.
Besides, if something was removed just because the designers of Xe didn't like it, then that might have been true for a lot of other things (and honestly, all their talk about "killing the sacred cows" that I've seen around doesn't really speak against that possibility). IMO, it's just not a professional way of handling a setting that you don't own, you didn't create, and/or that you only contributed to alongside *many* other people. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 31 Jan 2017 00:22:50 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2506 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2017 : 04:26:43
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| The ironic part is that they did not learn from that mistake in the end, and repeated it the same in the transition from 4e to 5e, getting rid of stuff regardless if that stuff was contributing positively to the setting or not (and more blatantly, because at least 3e-4e had a time skip to try to give some logic to stuff...) |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Jan 2017 : 18:35:31
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There was a great article (someone wrote) back when 4e was first released about the differences between 'additive design', and 'subtractive design'. 4e is was almost entirely subtractive. I wish I could find that article again.
When you're designing, your supposed to put your personal opinions aside. I think a LOT of opinions went into 4e (loosing plotlines, Lovecraftan weirdness, and destroying the setting itself;"I prefer Eberron to the Forgotten Realms" - THAT coming from the lead designer). When I worked on the Elven Netbook Project (which became Elves of Faerūn), I did NOT like elves. In fact, I really, REALLY dislike elves. But no-one was doing a 'Dwarven netbook', and most of the guys working on the project were friends of mine (on the WotC boards). So I figured I work on the Drow, because if you don't like Elves, those are the best ones to work with. I don't really care for Drow, either (mostly thanks to Drizzzt novels), but I worked on them anyway. I think I did a fairly good job. I also did articles on two of the 'legendary' elven subraces, and did the section on Elven Physiology. All that, despite not liking the thing I was working on.
Because I didn't do it for ME. I did I for the community. I think, maybe, when certain people became in charge, they became enamored with their own tastes, and thought everyone else would fall in line with their 'obviously superior' opinions on the setting. Ego is a very destructive thing. I guess the backlash from 4e was their wake-up call.
I think the exact opposite happened with 5e - instead of sitting there and trying to think of the best way to move forward, they just 'reset the setting', without actually resetting the setting ("Everything is exactly how it was, except its 130 years later"). I think at that point they were afraid to make any rash decisions, and thats probably why we didn't get a full reset (because they didn't want to alienate whatever fans they garnered in 4e). Cormyr got bigger in 4e - I'd like to know if thats still the case. THAT decision made sense. Also, I want to know about those other (4e) things I mentioned in earlier posts.
I'd LOVE a full-on reset. Bring Jeff Grubb back to work with Ed in writing a NEW OGB (maybe even have a 'deluxe edition' actually in a retro box), or rather, just 'freshening up' what was there, and applying the small, historical lore-bits we've established over the years (stuff about the Creator-Races, Netheril, Imaskar, etc). And tighter editing, with new art. So much great lore was simply 'lost' because they moved the timeline forward - a thousand tiny little (useful) plots and NPCs that just got 'washed away'. What a friggin' waste!
But unless someone else buys The Forgotten Realms from Hasbro - someone with at least as much clout/money/power (like Disney buying SW from Lucas) - I don't think we will ever see such a thing, and thats just a damn shame. Its seems to be the edition most of us are still using (even the folks playing in other editions are stuck using the outdated Volo's guides).
As for Rich Baker, I have nothing but respect for him. I think a lot of his RW views got in the way of his career (at WotC), and that, too, is a shame. He is a great designer. And as for his other writing, his Blades of the Moonsea remain the only 4e novels that FELT LIKE FR (IMO), and I would recommend them. Not that other authors didn't write good books - its just that he didn't rub our noses in all that 'Spellplague stuff' constantly. I felt like that series could have been dropped into any edition. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Jan 2017 18:39:42 |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 01 Feb 2017 : 03:57:37
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I'm okay with everything including the return of Bane in 1372 (really, it's Xvim, but hey), I include the return of Shade and even the Silence of Lolth (I really enjoy the City of The Spider Queen or the idea of it at least). Outside of that, everything that happens is pretty well ignored. Shade taking over Sembia MIGHT happen, but I haven't run a 'Realms game in a VERY long time. Outside of the big three there, everything else was the same up to 1372, but everything after is ignored but those three things, with the fourth being possible.
I also tend to run games in the Shining South along the Chultan Peninsula, so I was really upset when the Spellplague wiped it out. It was very lore-light, and I added cities and plots to my fancy. It worked really well. So, I guess I'm in the "ignore the Spellplague" crowd, too. I'm not challenging anyone who uses it, I simply don't because it doesn't fit MY Realms. Canon is canon, but my game is MINE.
As to the other tangent in the thread, I think Rich Baker is definitely someone who deserves a great deal of respect from everyone. He was the only one who really dealt with the fans, and he took a beating. If I ever meet him, I will buy him a beverage of his choice. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Realms events you've decided to ignore.
