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Originally posted by Markustay

With all the retcons to Eladrin (and everything else) over the past few editions, I'm not sure what the heck they are canonically anymore, but at the time the 'LeShay' name came about for the TRUE Fey, Eladrin were just a 'planer' variety of High (Gold/Silver, Gray/High) Elf, almost like 'elf angles', but not quite. Perhaps those were the 'first generation' born after death came into the world, so they retain the most features of their parent race (including the amazing longevity). LeShay were a bit more than that - practically a race of 'demigods' (which would make sense, if they were 25K plus year-old surviving Creatori).

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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Aren't LeShay just eladrin by another name?

IIRC, the noble eladrin of current Sarifal claim to be "of the same stock as the mythical fey creator race of old." And if we go by 4e lore, noble eladrin are those that were called just eladrin in earlier editions (ghaele, bralani, shiere and such others—the non-playable eladrin variant in 4e).

EDIT:

Haven't noticed it before, but I'm a senior scribe now

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Originally posted by Markustay

*I've called these guys 'The First men', and I've tried various other names. I don't want to use something Latin, like 'Hominid', even though that would be accurate. Saying 'gith' isn't accurate either, since the branches of that race are really all from some other, unnamed race, and are thus-named because they followed 'Gith' out of slavery. I've called them Blackmoorians, because I think Blackmoor was THE major human culture on the First World, but maybe if I just shorten it? Moorians? Sounds kind of cool, like Le'Moorians (so on Earth, we now call them 'Lemurians') Apparently Latin gets its 'la/le' from the ancient Fey language. LOL

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Originally posted by Markustay


Another theory I have is that the illithids are some sort of 'future Batrachi', that have come back in time to change the past (and save their race?)

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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

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Originally posted by Markustay

*I've called these guys 'The First men', and I've tried various other names. I don't want to use something Latin, like 'Hominid', even though that would be accurate. Saying 'gith' isn't accurate either, since the branches of that race are really all from some other, unnamed race, and are thus-named because they followed 'Gith' out of slavery. I've called them Blackmoorians, because I think Blackmoor was THE major human culture on the First World, but maybe if I just shorten it? Moorians? Sounds kind of cool, like Le'Moorians (so on Earth, we now call them 'Lemurians') Apparently Latin gets its 'la/le' from the ancient Fey language. LOL

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WoW has the Vrykul.

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Originally posted by Zeromaru X

Very well, I guess I've found your canon connection of The Raven Queen with the Realms. Gloomwrought. According to the Companions (Sundering novel, Drizzt saga), its was a Netherese city (until it became independent or something like that). It was the sister city of Thultanthar, in fact.

Gloomwrought is Core 4e, though (its in 4e Manual of the Planes and in the Shadowfell boxed set), and more importantly, this city is where the religion of TRQ is at its stronger across the Shadowfell (beyond Letherna, of course). This means that some ex-Netherese worship the Raven Queen.

So, here is. TRQ is canon Realms. Indirect canon Realms, yeah (in fact, is more like Strahd level of canonicity in the Realms), but is canon nonetheless.

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Originally posted by Markustay

Yeah - I think we're getting somewhere now, even though its very complicated. Shar is keeping 'hands off' The Raven Queen for now, because she is still hoping to slalvage her plan.

I'm thinking that Threnody may have been a world that was like Dambrath - a drow-dominated setting where humans were the underclass (so we'd have Crinti, which fixes a few things). Shar hooks-up with some important Drow Lord (probably a Crinti, to gain in-roads into both human and elven psyche/Overmind), and gets herself pregnant. Sometime down the road the child is born (Kiaransalee), becomes some sort of 'Dark Queen', and then kills all her own subjects. In fact, she may have even made a deal with Nerull ahead of time - told him she wanted to be 'his lieutenant' (consort), and she would "give him all the souls on Threnody". Of course, she had already established herself as an Exarch of his on Threnody, which means those souls were attached to him, through her. This enabled her to later double-cross him, and not only assume control over her own people's souls, but also free all the rest, destroying that aspect of Nerull (the one in-charge of Threnody, which would actually have started growing weaker without any mortal worshipers on Threnody... he hadn't thought of that).

She kills a world, and gains godhood... all part of 'Shar's (mommy's) plan. Then she hooks up with Lolth - tells her she can have death & undeath (of the drow) through her. Lolth takes the bait (or so Kia and Shar think). Unbeknowst to Kiaransalee, Shar had intended for Lolth to absorb Kia all along. She just assumed she would (because SHE would - they do have similar temperaments). But Lolth never did, either she was too smart (probably), or just didn't care enough, so instead she just completely dominated Kia. until after she became a greater Goddess. After her bid to create her own 'Demonweave' failed*, she instead went after ALL the other Dark Elven gods, even her own children (if she caught on to what Shar was attempting, she may have even done this to prevent someone 'back-dooring' her, eliminating all her own 'connections'). She never bothered to absorb Kia - she just made people forget about her. She wanted no part of that 'mini-me' Shar.


Also, is Kiaransalee back? If she is, that complicates matters even further...

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Originally posted by Markustay

Well, that's because I never read Lady Penitent - I was just going off memory form other discussions here. I thought it all had to do with a Savra game?

And how does a dead Mystra help anyone do anything?
Or did that story take place pre-Spellplague?

I am starting to recall why I avoided 4e like the plague.

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Well met again, all. Your Lady Hooded One returns (thank you for that naming, Wooly Rupert!), with Ed’s latest:


Hi, Wooly Rupert. Well, now: Nobanion and Lurue are, of course, the Lion and the Unicorn of British nursery rhyme fame (with all the meanings that go with that, too; they are among other things the supporters of the royal coat of arms for that country, and in many other coats of arms associated with England).
Yet they’re also MUCH more than that. For me, I have to be able to imagine a deity with some awe, and I often do it by attaching to them emotions evoked by other fiction. So, the Lion is also Aslan the Lion in The Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. Lewis (Christian allegorical fantasy classics soon to appear in a Disney movie that * might * turn out to be okay, and already on film in any number of BBC adaptations down the years, some of them superb). The Narnia books are hated by some, loved by others, but chock-full of little heart-wrenching scenes regardless, and are among the top-selling English-language fiction books of all time.
I didn’t mean my lion-god to BE Aslan, of course; as you saw in that DRAGON article, a lot of names were placeholders at the time, waiting for Mr. Gygax to round out the “official” (Greyhawk) pantheon. Aslan has that name because he has evoke that “awe” for me. The name “Aslan” is Indian in origin (India, not native North American), and the lion is of course a Christian symbol for ‘the King’ from way back, hence its lavish use in royal heraldry.
So “Aslan” went away the moment TSR decided to publish the Realms (mustn’t lift central characters from other authors, even in homage, though I did unwittingly [i.e. I’d forgotten] sneak one direct homage into the Realms [Aglarond, for Tolkien], and beat another well-known fantasy author to a name by coincidence, coining the name “Ashaba” for the river that runs through Shadowdale years before David Eddings used it in his Malloreon books).
Lurue is my own invented name, but it started almost as the deity’s ‘private’ name, with “Silverymoon” being her popular one (and, yes, the city of the same name was originally envisaged as the root and center of her faith). Not only is Lurue the Unicorn of “the Lion and the Unicorn,” she’s also the mysterious, eponymous unicorn from the children’s book THE LITTLE WHITE HORSE by Elizabeth Goudge, AND she’s also meant to evoke the Unicorn of Amber, in Roger Zelazny’s classic Amber books (where the Unicorn inspires awe even among the jaded royal family who use her as their badge). She was always meant to be mysterious, and there’s very little about her that didn’t go into POWERS & PANTHEONS that doesn’t now contradict the published Realms.
Originally, Lurue WAS magic—before Julia Martin added the name “Weave” to my GenCon explanations of ‘the great web of magic that’s everywhere in Toril, binds Toril together, and IS Toril,’ Lurue was the embodiment of the Weave. As such, she could teleport without error or limit, through all barriers and spells, was immune to all known magical [and psionic] effects, could raise dead, heal, regenerate and restore with the touch of her horn—and also spew silver fire from it—and so on. Her very proximity dispels illusions and curses, purifies and neutralizes poisons and taints, and purges diseases. And on and on. [To the usual chorus of “Look, yet another all-powerful Greenwood munchkin!” I reply: Yes. Of course. This is THE all-powerful goddess, and she’s also whimsical. We can’t understand why she does what she does, so she can’t be controlled, or act like any sort of tyrannical munchkin, any more than a mountain range or an ocean can be.] She tended to be as curious as a newborn babe, utterly fearless, and kind to injured creatures. And yes, I tucked in the “patron of virgins, but can also make barren wombs bear” folklore, too. Only virgins could ride her, and those who did got that silver hair the Chosen who are Mystra’s daughters all share, and ‘wild talent’ innate magical abilities, and were marked for special tasks and achievements all their lives.
The TSR designers quite rightly (given the humanocentric core of that version of AD&D, with its level and power limits on non-humans) wanted human gods to be front and center and of the greatest power and importance, so Mystra (most important to intelligent creatures trying to USE magic) became also the Guardian or Mother of the Weave, and Lurue sort of . . . danced sideways. To become the awe-inspiring mystery she is now.
Now, as for the Knights of the Unicorn, I do have more, but dare not pass it on right now for fear of trampling on something another creative person is already working on, in the Realms. That’s one rule I’m going to be very careful not to break, no matter how much we all want to delve into lore and secrets of the Realms. So: sorry, and I hope you’ll understand.


So saith Ed. Thy Hooded One can add this much: we Knights met Lurue once, in the High Forest, on the banks of the Unicorn Run. She was dancing on her hind legs on empty air, about forty feet off the ground, in full silvery moonlight -- and we all grovelled. She LOOKED into our eyes, each of us -- and Ed had written out long, detailed notes for each of us for the dream-visions we received then. When we awakened, we were all reinvigorated, healed of all hurts, had maximum charges in all of our magic items, and so on. The one virgin among us (no, I’m not going to name her, but it wasn’t my character, all you guessers) had been touched by Lurue’s horn, and her eyes were two flames of silver fire. Also, her hair had gone silver and moved constantly by itself, as if waves of wind were passing through it. She gained feather fall and water walk innate abilities on the spot, and ironguard as long as the silver fire was in her. It remained with her as we travelled, until we had to fight a certain archdevil in Myth Drannor.
In that encounter, we were overwhelmed by devils and were going down, just being buried in numbers. The archdevil saw the silver fire and went straight for the particular Knight, and after they’d started to fight and the character was being badly mauled, the player (thank whatever gods there be) REMEMBERED Ed’s notes of her dream-vision, and what she had to do. She fled onto the altar beside the devil (that was also a gate into the Nine Hells), and when the archdevil attacked her there, she embraced it and let it slay her.
And her silver fire went BLAM and took out altar, gate, archdevil, and all the other devils within a MILE, leaving all of us Knights lying dazed, unscathed, and alive . . . except she who’d sacrificed herself. She was gone forever.
And at that moment, far away in Shadowdale, Storm Silverhand was helping a farm wife give birth to her first child, a girl—and it came out stillborn. Storm raised the tiny body to make absolutely sure before she wrapped it and turned to comfort the mother . . . and its eyes opened, and they were silver and knowing, and the mind of our lost Knight was in the now-living child and wondering how by Lurue to tell Storm who she was.
Hmm. I’m crying again, just remembering it.
Another of Ed’s beautiful little moments, that will make me treasure our Realmsplay forever.

Ladies and gentlesirs, I give you: the Realms!
The Hooded One

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"I learned that as the centuries rolled by, even the gods change, or at least our conception of them does, which amounts to the same thing".

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