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Nyx_Necrodragon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Oct 2016 : 23:52:59
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Hello all,
In a few months I'll be doing my first campaign with the first story arc centred around a death cult with grandiose ambitions of domination (kind of like Necromongers from Chronicles of Riddick). So the players are going to start off at the Vhaeraunite settlement of Ebonvale and these elves (mostly drow but a few high elves) have really been getting it in the neck since they have necromancers and a death cleric, although they actually serve more as moticians, embalmers, undertakers, coroners and pathologists who perform autopsies and of course they keep a vigilant eye out for any suspicious necromantic activity and advise the human crown of such action. So my question is thus: Would Vhaeraun allow a death cleric? and if so would he be the one to give them their power?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2016 : 01:46:22
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Vhaeraun might support a Drow Death Cleric if he did not kill Drow. As a return of Drow to the surface is one of his tenets, clearly non Drow must get out of the way. Becoming slaves of course one way, being dead another. I can not see any way that Vhaeraun would allow for death of Drow that might be converted to his followers.
It clearly might be fine turned that Vhaeraun might allow clerics of other Drow deities to be killed, however I do not believe even then he would empower a Death Cleric. It though might be possible. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2016 : 06:35:13
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| Your description, to me, seems much more in keeping with the faith of Kiaransalee than Vhaeraun. You might try and track down the 2e Complete Book of Necromancers which in imo is the best resource there is on necros/death cults. It may give you some ideas. Oto hand, there are many assassins within Vhaeraun's ranks (again see, CBoN for info on Murder cults) and drow like nothing better than killing their own. Being a big fan of the Sly Savage, I'd like to see where you go with it. Is Ebonvale of your own creation? Oh, welcome to the 'Keep, btw. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 04 Oct 2016 22:15:35 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2016 : 14:59:26
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| Yeah that cult sounds a lot like Kieranselee but you could also have a mortican cleric of Vhaerun serving his community in this manner but hardly a cult. Since Vhaerun do not have a Death domain he cannot support it for his clerics but none of the drow gods have it so they have to deal with funerals somehow. I would presume it is in the name of Lloth as always (in Menzo and such). It actually make sense that in Vhaerunian community there is growing cult of Kieranselee with domination in mind... |
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Nyx_Necrodragon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2016 : 19:18:52
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| Ebonvale isn't the cult it's just a Vhaeraunite settlement that's being blamed for the cult activity. First challenge will be for the party to find the settlement then convince them to help them. What type of relationship do Vhaeraun and Kieranselee have? If any? I was thinking of having Naralis Analo as my back up he's a death god, right? And has no history with Vhaeruan so not entirely likely to enrage him. |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2016 : 22:08:30
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| Naraliwho? I would say Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee get along about as well as most drow, which is to say, not at all. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Edited by - Fellfire on 04 Oct 2016 22:16:54 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4702 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2016 : 23:33:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Naraliwho? I would say Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee get along about as well as most drow, which is to say, not at all.
I found this from a 3.5 fan site: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?258370-So-You-Want-To-Play-An-Elf-(3-5-Fluff) (indicating is homebrew)
quote:
Naralis Analor
The son of Corellon and Sehanine Moonbow, Naralis Analor is an important elven deity who is involved in both life and death. Naralis is a psychopomp, and is venerated in elven communities as the escort and defender of the deceased and he who enshrines ancestral spirits. He is also the elven god of healing and the guardian of the brink of death. As elves live their entire lives familiar with the goddess who will come to claim them at their proper end, Sehanine Moonbow, they do not fear natural death as other races often do. For violent or otherwise unnatural deaths, elves trust in Naralis to return those with a chance of survival and ensure a proper place for those without. Naralis Analor and his specialty priests, the heralars, are most concerned with quality of life, from birth to old age. They also oversee funerary practices. Naralis keeps his realm, the Healing Glade, on Amoria.
Naralis Analor's symbol is a dove, oftentimes represented on a shield; his favored weapon is the flail. Naralis Analor's domains are Good, Healing, Life, Repose and Protection. Naralis Analor is neutral good.
As far as Vhaeraun and Kiaransalee they clearly are opposed deities, much like most Drow deities oppose each other.
Edit: I found Naralis Analor also listed in Dragon 236 , December 1996. quote:
Naralis is an elven god whose primary
interest is not just the safeguarding of
elven souls after they depart, but also heal-
ing of the living. As Sehahine guides the
souls to their time of leaving, he serves
Sehahine in making sure they reach their
proper destination. He is one of the few
death gods who isn’t malevolent or uncar-
ing, and he’s very popular in those worlds
where his worship is practiced. Like Tethrin
and Kirith, Naralis resides on the first layer
of Elysium, but he has his own realm,
called The Healing Glade, where he con-
ducts his godly duties.
Naralis’s worshippers are those who
are concerned with keeping their fellow
elves healthy, and in caring for those
who are going to die. Some adventurers
give their respect to Naris in the hope
he’ll be able to turn the next potential
deathblow away from them.
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"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 04 Oct 2016 23:42:09 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2016 : 00:59:03
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| Nice find, Nyx, Kentinal. Always room for one more deity. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2016 : 11:23:40
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| I am not sure if it is oficial but I have Vhaerun as a former lover of Kieranselee before she was warped by Lloth. I have her as former moon elven godess who were in love with Vhaerun in times before Lloth's betrail of Corellion. Lloth wanted to secure her son's loyalty to her so she transformed his loved into undead slave. So their relationship in my version is a bitter longing for her in case of Vhaerun and cold uninterest besides manipulation on her's. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2016 : 13:04:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I am not sure if it is oficial but I have Vhaerun as a former lover of Kieranselee before she was warped by Lloth. I have her as former moon elven godess who were in love with Vhaerun in times before Lloth's betrail of Corellion. Lloth wanted to secure her son's loyalty to her so she transformed his loved into undead slave. So their relationship in my version is a bitter longing for her in case of Vhaerun and cold uninterest besides manipulation on her's.
...That's an odd way to secure someone's loyalty. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2016 : 13:17:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I am not sure if it is oficial but I have Vhaerun as a former lover of Kieranselee before she was warped by Lloth. I have her as former moon elven godess who were in love with Vhaerun in times before Lloth's betrail of Corellion. Lloth wanted to secure her son's loyalty to her so she transformed his loved into undead slave. So their relationship in my version is a bitter longing for her in case of Vhaerun and cold uninterest besides manipulation on her's.
Yeah, that's a bit weird. I would understand keeping her prisoner and threatening Vhaeraun with that, but when you destroy the very thing that gives you a chance at having someone do your bidding?
In any case, canonically Kiaransalee is a lich from the world of Threnody. She was exiled for her experiments on undeath, so she worked to destroy her former world, and she did. after that she moved to the Abyss and kept hoarding magical power, eventually becoming a demipower.
@Nyx_Necrodragon, in the official FR Kiaransalee and Vhaeraun are totally enemies. All the deities of the Dark Seldarine are on hostile terms, except for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, who only recently have come to a truce, after their return (and Lolth and Selvetarm, and even then, Selvetarm hates Lolth).
As for your original question, Vhaeraun is more tolerant than his being evil might suggest. Anything that helps him to reach his goal will do. He does't provide spells for the Death Domain, never has, but if he accepts and encourages marriage with elves, even whil they still worship the Sledarine, I'm sure that he wouldn't have any problems with some death clerics of another deity acting as morticians in one of his settlements (as long as they don't cause any damage, and can be controlled. and as long as they are not clerics of someone like Kiaransalee, I guess, since Vhaeraun's and Kiaransalee's interests are opposed). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 05 Oct 2016 13:17:41 |
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Nyx_Necrodragon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 05 Oct 2016 : 21:14:39
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| Thanks guys I'm getting some great stuff. I'll be DMing for the newbies so I want to shove as much D&D lore as possible. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12191 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2016 : 13:55:31
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| If you're wanting drow males who follow some kind of necromonger like death religion, don't forget that drow were also some of the first followers of demonic cults in AD&D. It absolutely would fit that some drow males, who maybe came from being persecuted from being males in a Kiaranselee led society, spun off to worship her mortal enemy (Orcus). You obviously could have clerics of Orcus. You could have paladins of vengeance who want to see female drow cast down from ruling roles. You could have warlocks of Orcus. You could have wizards who have a focus on conjuring demons AND creating undead (i.e. conjurers and necromancers). Also, in this society, it wouldn't be unusual for many of the people to actually follow Vhaeraun, as the focus of the society shouldn't be the "deity" itself. You could even have different sects of demon worshippers (some Orcus, some Yeenoghu with a focus on ghouls and cannibalism). If you did have Yeenoghu, it wouldn't be unusual if instead of the standard Quagggoth (aka deepbears), you instead have them using gnolls as a servitor race. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 06 Oct 2016 : 14:16:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I am not sure if it is oficial but I have Vhaerun as a former lover of Kieranselee before she was warped by Lloth. I have her as former moon elven godess who were in love with Vhaerun in times before Lloth's betrail of Corellion. Lloth wanted to secure her son's loyalty to her so she transformed his loved into undead slave. So their relationship in my version is a bitter longing for her in case of Vhaerun and cold uninterest besides manipulation on her's.
Yeah, that's a bit weird. I would understand keeping her prisoner and threatening Vhaeraun with that, but when you destroy the very thing that gives you a chance at having someone do your bidding?
In any case, canonically Kiaransalee is a lich from the world of Threnody. She was exiled for her experiments on undeath, so she worked to destroy her former world, and she did. after that she moved to the Abyss and kept hoarding magical power, eventually becoming a demipower.
@Nyx_Necrodragon, in the official FR Kiaransalee and Vhaeraun are totally enemies. All the deities of the Dark Seldarine are on hostile terms, except for Eilistraee and Vhaeraun, who only recently have come to a truce, after their return (and Lolth and Selvetarm, and even then, Selvetarm hates Lolth).
As for your original question, Vhaeraun is more tolerant than his being evil might suggest. Anything that helps him to reach his goal will do. He does't provide spells for the Death Domain, never has, but if he accepts and encourages marriage with elves, even whil they still worship the Sledarine, I'm sure that he wouldn't have any problems with some death clerics of another deity acting as morticians in one of his settlements (as long as they don't cause any damage, and can be controlled. and as long as they are not clerics of someone like Kiaransalee, I guess, since Vhaeraun's and Kiaransalee's interests are opposed).
I have been thinking about how the rebellion happened and started at base:
Corellion and Araushnee had a dauhter Elistrae and then she got a son with Fenmarel who helped her later. Her son Vhaerun found a interest in moon-elven goddess Kieranselee and they had son Silvetarm. When Araushnee planned her victory she needed to secure some help and went not only for her closest but also for demons. She knew Elistrae would never betray her father so she either had a plot that didn't succeeded or she just used her some other way. For her son she knew he would back her up except for his wife's influence. Araushnee didn't cared for Kieranselee as much as for her own daughter so she trapped her and twisted so she would do her bidding but keeping enough of her intact for Vhaerun to keep him hoping he could get her back. She later manipulated his son Selvetarm to finish a demon she defeated in Abyss so he got corrupted also.
For me this explain the relationship between drow dieties as it is really complicated. Vhaerun hate Lloth but still follow her. They have a strange connection with his sister where non like each other much but seems to have similar goals. Kieranselee is just left outside and nobody likes her but Lloth keeps her in the pantheon even thou she bans her worship. Ghaunadaur was another mystery but make sense as one of her allies which manifests itself in her use of Yochol - quite clearly a slime demons/planars. |
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Nyx_Necrodragon
Acolyte
United Kingdom
12 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2016 : 21:57:31
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| Can Vhaeraun have Paladins? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3823 Posts |
Posted - 09 Oct 2016 : 22:18:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyx_Necrodragon
Can Vhaeraun have Paladins?
In 5e, I can totally see a Neutral Paladine of Vengeance devoted to Vhaeraun. Especially if bent on avenging all that Lolth has done to the drow. I highly doubt that he'd attract Devotion Paladins, or the Green Knight-like paladins (who would instead fit his sister very well). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12191 Posts |
Posted - 10 Oct 2016 : 03:37:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Nyx_Necrodragon
Can Vhaeraun have Paladins?
Paladins of vengeance, and Oathbreakers from the DMG. If you're having an undead focus, Oathbreakers would help as they can command them with channel divinity and they enhance them too. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 11 Oct 2016 : 04:35:29
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| Doesn't really sound like a Vhaeraunite thing... |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Death Clerics in Vhaeraun's settlements
