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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 07:16:01
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I am not sure who created the Mirrormanes, but i am quite sure that I can never remember seeing the answers to our questions detailed in any published sources. As for posting the question to Ed; its a little early to give up, he is mindbogglingly busy and there is a long queue of questions. He will probably get to your question with time.
I do suspect that you will have to think out the answers to at least a few of these questions your self though. |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 07:16:18
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Mandras,
Ed will reply, you just have to wait. You do realize that he has over a years worth of replies (or more) to reply to as well. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Mandras
Seeker
Estonia
51 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 07:56:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
I am not sure who created the Mirrormanes, but i am quite sure that I can never remember seeing the answers to our questions detailed in any published sources. As for posting the question to Ed; its a little early to give up, he is mindbogglingly busy and there is a long queue of questions. He will probably get to your question with time.
I do suspect that you will have to think out the answers to at least a few of these questions your self though.
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Mandras,
Ed will reply, you just have to wait. You do realize that he has over a years worth of replies (or more) to reply to as well.
I found that published sources say almost nothing about the Mirrormanes and I was hoping that perhaps I could find out the original author who created them.
I do realize that I have to do most of the designing about this family myself but I would really want to hear the original basic concept about them:
1)is the family originally from Zhentil Keep?
2)from which social class is the family?
3)how Maskul and Xeno came to cleric´s life?
4)did the Cyric have any connection with the family before or during ToT?
I mean level 18 clerics don´t just pop out of nowhere in 2ed - the Fzoul was just level 13 cleric in Zhentil´s Keep Church of Cyric when Maskul was their leader as level 18. And the Xeno was later also level 18 cleric while the Fzoul was just level 15. But official sources say nothing about where the hell did these brothers come from. No mention about them in earlier, pre-ToT setting sources.
Were they the Chosens of Cyric? Were they friends or partners (in some Zhentil Keep´s street gang perhaps) before Cyric´s godhood and that helped them in climbing the difficult ladder of career? Were they just lucky cleric´s of Bane that spotted the best moment to jump into new boat after Bane died - and as the first to jump they received the most?
I suspect that whoever created the Mirrormanes designed an interesting story behind them and I would really love to hear it.
I have not lost my hope to get some answer from Ed, but I started to think that perhaps he had nothing to do with the Mirrormanes.
Thanks for Your replys,
Mandras
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"The pure and simple truth is rarely pure and never simple."
Oscar Wilde |
Edited by - Mandras on 15 Feb 2007 08:12:19 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2007 : 08:12:08
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| Like I said, you'll just have to wait. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 09:18:14
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Vendui Designers & Sages!
During my own campaign, some of the Dark Gods of the Forgotten Realms take centre stage, well, at least some sort of shrine for them. While I was quite certain about Myrkul, Bhaal and Loviatar belonging to them, I asked myself who else made up this ancient evils. Is there actually a "list" of these "Dark Gods", for as is usually the case if you look for something specific, you do not find it.
Furthermore, I noticed that there are conflicting reports in the sourcebooks on the attitude of Shar towards Loviatar. While the highly detailed Faiths & Avatars states that Talona allies herself with Shar on occasions to thwart her enemy Loviatar, as sentiment echoed in Faiths & Pantheons, the FRCS and Lords of Darkness present Shar and Talona allying against their "common" enemy Loviatar. Going by RAW, F&P is the most up to date source, but I think it would not harm to ask hereabouts whether there is actually a change in Shar's attitude towards the Maiden of Pain?
Aluve, Zanan! |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 01 Mar 2007 09:25:42 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2007 : 22:51:23
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Vendui again!
On another note, I checked on the new Yochlol as presented in the Fiendish Codex I - as they are know visitors to the Realms - and while no-one has yet to ask to play one (though I actually have a succubus character under my players (Savage Species et al), I wonder what the LA would be? It is missing from the FC stat-block. The "old" revised yochlol of Monsters of Faerûn were handed LA +6 (getting them on par with the succubus - ECL 12), but the new yochlol gained HD and improved abilities, so one wonders where they would rank now - ECL 16 or 17? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 17:54:14
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The Dark Gods, IIRC, included Bane and his servitors and allies, Bhaal, Loviatar, and Talona, and I believe Shar and maybe Hoar and/or Mask. The list was presented in either 1E and/or 2E FRCS.
As for the yochlol, I'm guessing its not there because it would raise the ECL over 20 and WotC doesn't generally list LAs that raise the ECL over 20. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2007 : 23:37:34
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The reference for the "Dark Gods" was in the Cyclopedia of the Realms for the 'Ol Grey Box -- pg. 17. It states:-
"Loviatar, Talona, and Malar serve Bane through Bhaal, although Loviatar and Talona are rivals. Bhaal and Myrkul have an unbreakable symbiotic alliance, as one delivers the dead to the other. Shar is allied with Myrkul. All of these beings are collectively known as "the Dark Gods."
It's basically a descriptive term for the group of *allied* powers. As I recall, there's also a reference to them in Ed's Code of the Harpers.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 02 Mar 2007 23:39:07 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2007 : 05:51:30
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I have a very broad question, and I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but it seems to be the closest fit.
What are the rules about producing homebrewed material for FR? I understand someone couldn't publish and sell their own sourcebooks, but what about all the non-WotC lore available everywhere online? I'm asking this here at CK, because you guys seem to produce one of the largest collection of non-canon lore, so I guess you would know the ruling on this.
The reason why I am asking - Fan-fiction aside (and there's a plethora of that), I find tons of Netbook style sources all over the place, and not just FR. A good deal of these are produced by people who either work for WotC or have in the past, like the two Realms beastiaries (excellent sources, I might add). Also there is Brian James's wonderful and VERY proffession looking work - so much so that WotC has embraced it and made it their own. This, and all the things you folks do here has lead me to believe that Wizards doesn't mind all the added stuff, so long as no one is trying to make money off of it.
But then I read a post just a short while ago over at the RPGA forums that WotC is cracking down on all the non-RPGA supported campaigns that have either 'sprung-up', or in some cases 'living campaign' that refused to die after support was pulled. Some sites were ordered to terminate immediately, while others were given time.
So what gives? If I write something, will I get in trouble? 
I tried seeking answers in the OGL, but I don't speak legalese. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 05 Mar 2007 08:58:54 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2007 : 06:25:38
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Honestly,
The best source to ask about fan material is WOTC itself. Maybe email their customer support and see what they say. None of us, except those that are, are lawyers and, to me, only WOTC can answer if they allow fan material or not. There's been times that I've been worried that I'd get a email/snail mail about my NPC files. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2007 : 09:27:41
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quote:
Originally posted by TomCosta
The Dark Gods, IIRC, included Bane and his servitors and allies, Bhaal, Loviatar, and Talona, and I believe Shar and maybe Hoar and/or Mask. The list was presented in either 1E and/or 2E FRCS.
As for the yochlol, I'm guessing its not there because it would raise the ECL over 20 and WotC doesn't generally list LAs that raise the ECL over 20.
Thanks for this info. I thought about Bane too, yet despite him being Loviatar's superior, methinks he isn't "old" enough to rank among the more mythically-sounding "Dark Gods". If one thinks of "Dark Gods" as being "Dark" in the sense of "Evil", many more of the older ones would jump onto the list too (e.g. Moander), I'd guess.
As for the yochlol, comparing them to the celestial, demonic and devilish equals, i.e. ghaele, succubus and erinnye, I am not under the impression that they would make a +10 LA (on top of their 10 HD) to be considered out of sight for ECL. Given that a higher HD-score usually reduces the valuation of LA modifiers.* Or do they? Obviously, ECL 17 or the like are not exactly that enchanting either.
*That is, the higher the number of racial HD a creature has, the less value is put on LA-changing stuff. A creature like the drow or fey'ri get a higher LA due to SR, DR and good ability modifers, as they can directly take up classes from the off. Similar modifiers apparenty do not weigh in that heavily if a creature has racial HD which would up the ECL though. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 03 Mar 2007 09:31:04 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2007 : 22:01:17
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You should read the Open Game License on the Wizards d20 portion of their website. Essentially, Wizards allows (ie. it's a privelage) fans to post their own information so long as you are not plagiarizing from them (particularly of 3E and 3.5E material), taking credit for their intellectual property, claiming ownership of their intellectual property, or trying to make money off of their intellectual property. That said, I am not a lawyer either. So you can't go an post the stats on XYZ spell in the spell compendium, but you can create your own spell and post it. My understanding is you can even call your spell Bane's XYZ and discuss how Bane grants it to his high priests for certain occasions and characters need the Initiate of Bane feat to use it, but you can't copy the Initiate of Bane feat. I hope that helps, and again, this is just my understanding. You should read the OGL and read any FAQs they have there and contact WotC with any questions.
Posted - 03 Mar 2007 : 05:51:30
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I have a very broad question, and I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but it seems to be the closest fit.
What are the rules about producing homebrewed material for FR? I understand someone couldn't publish and sell their own sourcebooks, but what about all the non-WotC lore available everywhere online? I'm asking this here at CK, because you guys seem to produce one of the largest collection of non-canon lore, so I guess you would know the ruling on this.
The reason why I am asking - Fan-fiction aside (and there's a plethora of that), I find tons of Netbook style sources all over the place, and not just FR. A good deal of these are produced by people who either work for WotC or have in the past, like the two Realms beastiaries (excellent sources, I might add). Also there is Brian James's wonderful and VERY proffession looking work - so much so that WotC has embraced it and made it their own. This, and all the things you folks do here has lead me to believe that Wizards doesn't mind all the added stuff, so long as no one is trying to make money off of it.
But then I read a post just a short while ago over at the RPGA forums that WotC is cracking down on all the non-RPGA supported campaigns that have either 'sprung-up', or in some cases 'living campaign' that refused to die after support was pulled. Some sites were ordered to terminate immediately, while others were given time.
So what gives? If I write something, will I get in trouble?
I tried seeking answers in the OGL, but I don't speak legalese.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2007 : 16:13:18
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Thanks for the reply Tom. 
Thats what I thought, but then I read this thread where they are closing down defunct RPGA campaigns (ordering sites to cease and desist, so to speak). I guess as long as you do your thing 'un-professionally' it slips under the radar.
But then, Brian's work was exceptionally professional.
Ah well, I'll let corporate attorneys worry about these things, and continue my enjoyment of the Realms.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jun 2007 09:09:37 |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
971 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2007 : 19:27:05
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| RPGA is different than a fan site. The RPGA is a licensed entity.... |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2007 : 21:34:30
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I have several questions regarding The Winds of Netheril and Encyclopedia Arcane from the Netheril boxed set, by slade and Jim Butler:
1. On page 57 of Winds, Nightbringers have a list of arcane spells which they may access. I have several questions about that paragraph (number two with a bullet):
1.1 What is the Netherese name of seeming, which doesn't appear in the spell lists on pages 23 through 28?
1.2 What is the Netherese name of shadowcat, which doesn't appear in the spell lists on pages 23 through 28?
1.3 Vilate's whispering (a.k.a. "whispering wind") is listed only as a variator spell, while the rest of the list are mentalisms or inventives. By my understanding, no Netherese arcanist could understand all three types, so either Vilate's whispering was listed in error among the Nightbringer spells, or it is misplaced in Appendix I (or perhaps belongs to variations and another field, as other spells did). What is the correct placement of the spell?
1.4 The example given at the end of the paragraph seems to be in error: by my understanding, it should either read, "half their actual level (round fractions up)" or else the example should be of a 6th-level nightbringer. Which is correct, please? it will make a huge difference to one of my players.
2. In Encyclopedia Arcane several priestly spells are listed, but they are shown with standard AD&D "schools" instead of having their "winds" listed. Will someone please list the winds associated with these spells (for all the deities, please, not just Shar)? Again, it makes a big difference for one of my players: as I understand it, a nightbringer was only able to cast transcendent spells and spells from only one of zephyrous, buffering, prevailing, or sporadic (or are zephyrous and buffering winds available to all of them with the choice-by-alignment being only among the other three winds)?
Those are my questions and requests. As I have come to expect from slade, the product was terrific, and it is only now that these questions have cropped up and must be resolved before my player discovers these ancient secrets (which should happen within the next two weeks).
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 27 Jun 2007 : 00:51:01
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quote:
Originally posted by EytanBernstein
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
quote:
Originally posted by GothicDan
Ah, 2E. Where it took a decade of real life play to reach 20th level. :)
Hey, you guys must cheat...  we've been playing a campaign (most of us with same characters) for 13 years, and are all still around 14th or 15th level - and we switched to 3e years ago!
Huh...  Hate to break this to you buddy, but either your DM is DEFINITELY witholding proper XP awards to you guys or your party is extremely unfocused and prefer taverns, petting zoos and pie-eating contests rather than exploring dungeons...
Considering that in that particular campaign (in those good ol' AD&D days) we have exterminated the whole Unseen, killed Elaith, battled and killed an avatar of Iyachtu Xvim, fought and killed Frostrune (twice!), romped through the Ruins of Hellgate Keep, slain several great wyrms, killed about a thousand monsters, plus won the war against the Sythisillian Horde... maybe you've got a point there
Darnit! I'll have to scrap that entire story arc out of my next product :)
You and the other designers, too! I also must drop a note to Elaine that Elaith was actually killed years ago... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 14 May 2008 : 05:44:41
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This one's for Greg A. Vaughan. I found it floating in the ether:-
quote:
Originally posted by jinat
Please can you tell me in which Dale Reckoning Year the Twilight Tomb adventure takes place ?
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Spell
Acolyte
Croatia
3 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 11:57:12
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Ok, this is maybe wrong place to ask this sort of question, but..
I'm interested in creating maps for adventuring in FR.
Specific places, temples, estates, famous taverns, parks, common houses, Guard houses.
Acctualy i'm looking for how should i say "world manager" regarding specific detailes for those themes.
Par-example: We have Waterdeep "City of Splendors" that have layout of entire city and its district's, but we don't have a drawing of specific taverns, places etc.
I would love to do this as my hobby, but if any out there see any interest in this project maybe we could develop some sort of bussines. I'm open to this solution either, but would definitely try to see if there is someone who is willing to step in to this sort of project.
Ok i know there is loot of stuff on WoTC site, and that answer maybe would be: "But we currently got what we need." But was thinking it is OK to ask.
And must admit i have just started to develop icons for maps. I'm using standard graphic app's like (Illustrator, Photoshop). And have found a classic illustrator to help me develop
details.
And now I'm asking if there is a person who is willing to provide us with written details regarding description for those specific places. Images will be created in vector format so it can be used in any sort of printing or multimedia publishing.
Best regards |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 13:11:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Spell
[brI would love to do this as my hobby, but if any out there see any interest in this project maybe we could develop some sort of bussines.
You can't legally do this without permission from WotC. You can make and freely distribute any fan-made stuff for free, but the minute you start charging for it, WotC's lawyers will be coming down on you.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 Jul 2008 13:12:37 |
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Spell
Acolyte
Croatia
3 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 14:23:49
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Interesting thing is how people first of all imediatly start to think about this as imposture, and vioalation of WotC copyrights.
I would be happier if someone would say acctualy: "hey this is realy lot of work, and very nice gesture and maybe very good idea, because it would be nice to give players opportunity to visualize their favorite fantasy world" :), but thanks man for warning.
... but if any interest in this project...
was referring to: if WotC see interest in this and no other, cause if anyone is thinking that we do this for money is wrong. And if future turns to be bright well hack mate why hesitate to grab opportunity. But that is if, if, if.
I don't have time or power to lead this project in to doom's of hell because of selfishness and greed over couple hundred bucks. So lets stick to this as idea and call for opportunity
to participate at creation of what people like to look, good illustration that is useful and gives people visual aid in their favorite fantasy world.
So basically if that person let's say "world manager" for this project isn't fan of it and willing to do this cause he simply find something interesting in, this project can't function proper because only good-willing person such as myself can do this at this level of project. A hobby.
So, if there is anyone interested in this, or maybe FR designers have something to say regarding to this matter i would be happy to listen their opinion, also would like to say that this project actually only demand a lot of job from one person and that person is me (to draw it in graphic apps).
Cheers.
P.S.: thanks for advice Wooly, hope i didn't sounded to rough as this isn't intended to offend you. I thank you.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Spell
[brI would love to do this as my hobby, but if any out there see any interest in this project maybe we could develop some sort of bussines.
You can't legally do this without permission from WotC. You can make and freely distribute any fan-made stuff for free, but the minute you start charging for it, WotC's lawyers will be coming down on you.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2008 : 14:35:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Spell
Interesting thing is how people first of all imediatly start to think about this as imposture, and vioalation of WotC copyrights.
I would be happier if someone would say acctualy: "hey this is realy lot of work, and very nice gesture and maybe very good idea, because it would be nice to give players opportunity to visualize their favorite fantasy world" :), but thanks man for warning.
That's what it was--a friendly warning to steer you away from getting into trouble without realizing it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2008 : 08:38:44
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O great and puissant sages! In the Binder's Name I inquire: what are reasonable Knowledge (Religion) and Knowledge (the Planes) DCs for Faerunians to know of the not-quite-as-great and rather-less-puissant BWIMB?
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Tyler
Acolyte
Russia
1 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 21:26:00
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Hm. So, will Lathander fully turn in Amaunator? Will he become just the Timekeeper and nothing more? As I have understood, previous Lathander is dead in fact now. Is it the final decision, or will he combine in himself both dogmas of true Lathander and dead in past Amaunator?
Or his abolishment is just one of that steps to "make the Realms new again"?;) For me it is strange when some god suddenly and totally changes his dogma and still remains the Greater deity. I think that in real life:) he will just lose all his followers;)
Hm. Please, tell me what dogma, world-view and values will have the paladin of this new Amaunator?) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 02:44:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyler
Hm. So, will Lathander fully turn in Amaunator? Will he become just the Timekeeper and nothing more? As I have understood, previous Lathander is dead in fact now. Is it the final decision, or will he combine in himself both dogmas of true Lathander and dead in past Amaunator?
Or his abolishment is just one of that steps to "make the Realms new again"?;) For me it is strange when some god suddenly and totally changes his dogma and still remains the Greater deity. I think that in real life:) he will just lose all his followers;)
Hm. Please, tell me what dogma, world-view and values will have the paladin of this new Amaunator?)
The idea of Amaunator and Lathander being different aspects of a tripartite sun deity is an old one, that I believe was officially intro'ed in 3E. Lathander hasn't died, he has become Amaunator -- basically, his personality and interests shifted until he was Amaunator. Lathander isn't dead, we just can't see him now. Think of it like a slowly rotating d6 -- when you see the 6, the 1 hasn't been removed, it's just not currently visible. As the die slowly rotates, the 6 will pass out of view, and soon the 1 will be the only number you see.
All that said, I have never liked the tripartite sun deity idea. And even if I did, I don't think that 100 years is enough time for the aspects to totally shift. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 03:07:27
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| An interesting aspect on this is in page 72 of the FRCG. It indicates that Amauntator transformed into Lathander, then reclaimed his name and mission, after numerous centuries had past. |
Edited by - scererar on 31 Aug 2008 04:14:41 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 03:18:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tyler
Hm. So, will Lathander fully turn in Amaunator? Will he become just the Timekeeper and nothing more? As I have understood, previous Lathander is dead in fact now. Is it the final decision, or will he combine in himself both dogmas of true Lathander and dead in past Amaunator?
Or his abolishment is just one of that steps to "make the Realms new again"?;) For me it is strange when some god suddenly and totally changes his dogma and still remains the Greater deity. I think that in real life:) he will just lose all his followers;)
Hm. Please, tell me what dogma, world-view and values will have the paladin of this new Amaunator?)
The idea of Amaunator and Lathander being different aspects of a tripartite sun deity is an old one, that I believe was officially intro'ed in 3E. Lathander hasn't died, he has become Amaunator -- basically, his personality and interests shifted until he was Amaunator. Lathander isn't dead, we just can't see him now. Think of it like a slowly rotating d6 -- when you see the 6, the 1 hasn't been removed, it's just not currently visible. As the die slowly rotates, the 6 will pass out of view, and soon the 1 will be the only number you see.
All that said, I have never liked the tripartite sun deity idea. And even if I did, I don't think that 100 years is enough time for the aspects to totally shift.
According to Eric Boyd, the sun god is a tripartite deity with three aspects including a Dawn, Midday, and a Dusk aspect. He has described the tripartite sun god as something like a 4-sided die revolving on a lazy susan. If you are looking edge on, you can usually see two faces of the die at any given time, but never all three at once. And for brief instances every third of a revolution you can only see one face for a moment.
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 06:04:31
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I'm with Wooly on this. I like the idea of bringing Amaunator back, but not at Lathander's expense. In fact, my campaign has done so, explaining Amaunator's fall and rebirth and Lathander's ascension quite consistently within the context of what little is known about the Dawn Cataclysm. (Can we *please* have a *tiny* bit more canon lore on this? Failing that, I'll take whatever interesting lore others have "found" on the matter.) I also gave Cyric a job in keeping with his "Dark Sun" sobriquet: he is the god of dusk as well as lies, intrigue, and deception. Bhaal is back, as the god of murder, in a manner similar to the return of Bane and based on the storyline of the Baldur's Gate computer games. Myrkul is back as well, as the god of death, and he's not happy being a god again; he had just gotten to liking life as an intelligent, mind-controlling artifact. How a god ascended without wanting the job is best explained by five words: My replacement for the $ellplague. Kelemvor is still the god of the dead, and Jergal is still his demipower assistant.
Besides, the Mulhorandi and Untheric pantheons are gone now; we need a few more gods in the pre-Spellplague Realms. My Realms would actually have more gods than are listed in the 3.0 FRCS, if not for the demise of the Untheric and Mulhorandi pantheons and a couple of other gods (including Tyr, but not Mystra, Azuth, Savras, or Velsharoon). Of course, we aren't going 4E or $ellplague either, and that whole process and the lead-up into it killed off gods faster than early medieval Europe. I *like* a large pantheon; it gives players of nonhuman characters a choice. 4E seems to have done nothing but take choices away, after its initial promise was to do the opposite, from what I had seen in the previews.
Anyway, that's what I'm doing in my game, and if it gives anyone else ideas, cool. From what I've seen in the Keep, others are already doing similar things on some points above. That's good; you're unique, just like everyone else, so don't let a cookie-cutter shape your game for you. ;)
I'm done. If anyone thought this was a rant, then rant over. I tried to keep my tone conciliatory throughout; I'm getting too old to be angry all the time. If you're wondering *how* old that is, I'm old enough to have played 1st Edition and bought the Gray Box brand-new. That's all I'll say until I decide to update my profile. ;) |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2008 : 06:15:35
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After all that, I *do* have a question. I'm looking for more information on House Dhuurniv, in particular more precise dates for Laele Dhuurniv's tenure as matron mother and other events discussed on page 82 of Shadowdale: tSotL. I'm assuming that one of the authors is the best person to ask, and I know Richard and Eric are pestered frequently in these scrolls, so I'll contribute to the pestering, if they don't mind...  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2008 : 05:50:36
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Okay, first, I've found answers to my questions from the previous posts, in the source quoted above. Thanks anyway, and apologies for pestering unnecessarily. 
Second, I have a question about both geography and history: Is the River Ammath on the eastern border of Dambrath connected in any way with the family of Saeval Ammath, the elf of Myth Drannor who raised and trained Garnetallisar? I'm thinking it's all coincidence, but you never know... |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 30 Sep 2008 06:12:26 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2008 : 06:59:25
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And seriously, I *would* like just a teensy bit more info on the Dawn Cataclysm: why/how/exactly when it happened would be great. Please?  |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
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Questions for Forgotten Realms Designers
