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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  14:16:51  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I discovered this very cool word here. Basically it means becoming a tree. This seems a very elfy thing to do. Maybe they become trees or treants to act as guardians of some sacred place. Do we have any examples of this in the lore? Is there a Monster Manual entry somewhere for a similar creature? I vaguely recall reading somewhere a love story involving an elf and a dryad where something similar may have happened.


Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

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Edited by - Fellfire on 09 Sep 2016 14:24:48

Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  14:57:52  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Jarsali and the Treant - Complete Book of Elves 2e

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
36912 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  17:42:08  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elves have a High Magic ritual for turning into another form of elf, and I believe a similar one was once used to turn an elf into a chasme, so he could spy on some fiends (I can't recall his name; I think it began with a U).

A similar High Magic ritual for turning into another race friendly to elves, such as fae, treants, or even plain old trees, seems rather likely, to me. Though I'd expect they'd not turn into regular trees, when being a treant was an option... Unless it went a step further, and transformed an elf into a copse of regular trees, instead of just one. Maybe a fully grown tree for every hit die, or every 50 years of life, or something like that.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  18:49:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My take on all this is that Fey can change shape naturally. In fact, I think all the creator races have some form of 'adaption ability' built in. In the case of the Fey, they are not really changing shape at all - fey are actually 'spirits'. They exist fully in the Astral, but need an 'anchor' to exist within the Prime Material. The anchors are often things associated with the ethereal (elemental) and nature. So they 'borrow' their physicality from their surroundings. Thus, Fey are not so much shape-changers as they are 'form takers' - they are already taking a form they wish, and with a little bit of power/help/whatever, they can take a different form (which is why the 'Fey' group has a nearly unlimited number of subtypes - they are all unique). They tend to spend most of their lives, however, in a single form; despite their chaotic nature, they are still communal beings, and once part of one fey group they tend to say that way for long periods of time.

This means that the closer the fey (or fey-offshoot, as elves are) to the 'original' fey bloodline, the greater its natural ability to change form is. Elves have been 'locked in' to their current forms for a very long period of time - generations even. Thus, it requires some extra 'oomph' to allow them to change. We see this when they decide to become Sea Elves - most sea elves now are born that way, but that wasn't always the case, and with Sashelas' blessing, any other type of elf can become a sea elf.

And then there are the Drow, who were 'cursed' (they considered it 'Lloth's Blessing') to be and look the way they do. That doesn't mean they have to stay that way either, despite Corellon's power/wishes. 4e (IIRC) made it so that a Drow can simply become a 'dark Elf' now, which is just a type of green (Sylvan) elf.

So we have many, MANY cases of elves changing form permanently, or, at least, semi-permanently. Becoming a tree - or anything else - isn't really much of a stretch. Just get the help of a god (ritual), or an artifact, or even a powerful mage (maybe), and it can be done. Change is part of their primal nature, even if most have forgotten this.

And that's my take - part of my 'everything is inter-related' theory of fictional settings. Make of it what you will.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 09 Sep 2016 18:50:24
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  19:03:27  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

A similar High Magic ritual for turning into another race friendly to elves, such as fae, treants, or even plain old trees, seems rather likely, to me. Though I'd expect they'd not turn into regular trees, when being a treant was an option... Unless it went a step further, and transformed an elf into a copse of regular trees, instead of just one. Maybe a fully grown tree for every hit die, or every 50 years of life, or something like that.



Interesting fact about aspen trees. Usually all of the trees in an aspen grove are actually the same organism. The root network just sends up another trunk when needed or to replace one destroyed by age, calamity or fire. One such grove is estimated to be 80,000 years old.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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USA
36912 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  19:27:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

My take on all this is that Fey can change shape naturally. In fact, I think all the creator races have some form of 'adaption ability' built in. In the case of the Fey, they are not really changing shape at all - fey are actually 'spirits'. They exist fully in the Astral, but need an 'anchor' to exist within the Prime Material. The anchors are often things associated with the ethereal (elemental) and nature. So they 'borrow' their physicality from their surroundings. Thus, Fey are not so much shape-changers as they are 'form takers' - they are already taking a form they wish, and with a little bit of power/help/whatever, they can take a different form (which is why the 'Fey' group has a nearly unlimited number of subtypes - they are all unique). They tend to spend most of their lives, however, in a single form; despite their chaotic nature, they are still communal beings, and once part of one fey group they tend to say that way for long periods of time.

This means that the closer the fey (or fey-offshoot, as elves are) to the 'original' fey bloodline, the greater its natural ability to change form is. Elves have been 'locked in' to their current forms for a very long period of time - generations even. Thus, it requires some extra 'oomph' to allow them to change. We see this when they decide to become Sea Elves - most sea elves now are born that way, but that wasn't always the case, and with Sashelas' blessing, any other type of elf can become a sea elf.

And then there are the Drow, who were 'cursed' (they considered it 'Lloth's Blessing') to be and look the way they do. That doesn't mean they have to stay that way either, despite Corellon's power/wishes. 4e (IIRC) made it so that a Drow can simply become a 'dark Elf' now, which is just a type of green (Sylvan) elf.

So we have many, MANY cases of elves changing form permanently, or, at least, semi-permanently. Becoming a tree - or anything else - isn't really much of a stretch. Just get the help of a god (ritual), or an artifact, or even a powerful mage (maybe), and it can be done. Change is part of their primal nature, even if most have forgotten this.

And that's my take - part of my 'everything is inter-related' theory of fictional settings. Make of it what you will.



It's an interesting spin on the fae, that's for certain. I don't know that I personally would run with it, but it's a hell of a nifty idea.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
6405 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2016 :  20:28:20  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I have a similar take to Markustay. The only difference is that i have the plane of faerie as a transitive plane in its own right so the fey have no need to exist on the astral plane.


They fey exist fully on the faerie plane and can manifest (like a ghost) onto the material plane where they appear as sprites, sylphs, pixies etc.

Dryads and the other fey are what happens when a fey possesses another being. I think in the case of a dryad it is when a fey possesses a tree.

The idea of fey being cursed to permanently inhabit a dryad form is a nice idea and then that form breeds with humans and you get a half breed.

This if course implies that modern dryada are the half breed and that there is a greater true fey version. But im fine with that.


Oh and on a sloghtly related note the shadow plane is another transitive plane so shadows are actually creatures from the shadow plane that have manifested onto the material plane. That makes them not undead

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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe

Australia
401 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2016 :  01:08:10  Show Profile Send BadCatMan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A group of moon elves in the Gray Forest between the Vast and Impiltur did this so they couldn't be driven out of the wood.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Gray_Forest

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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore

1965 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2016 :  02:33:37  Show Profile Send Fellfire a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Many thanks, BCM. Good stuff, just what I was looking for.

Misanthorpe

Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.

"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises

Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out

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TBeholder
Great Reader

2482 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2016 :  08:58:55  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire

I discovered this very cool word

It sounds like a branching kangaroo.
quote:
Basically it means becoming a tree. This seems a very elfy thing to do. Maybe they become trees or treants to act as guardians of some sacred place. Do we have any examples of this in the lore?

In The Year of Ragin' Dragons series there were some wood elves who became less elves and more wood.
quote:
I vaguely recall reading somewhere a love story involving an elf and a dryad where something similar may have happened.

There was "Jarsali and the Treant" elven myth of dryad origin from Complete Elves.

More nature-oriented elves who wish to continue an active
role in the forest beyond their normal lifespan have two options, 
though both end their elven nature. Female elves can become 
transformed into dryads or nymphs, and they are forever tied to 
the sites close to where the transforming ritual occurs.
If a penitent elf (of any sex or subrace) is buried beneath 
the roots of a tree in Cormanthor with the blessings of a 
particular High Magic or druidic ritual, he or she becomes a 
treant and a voice of a full Elven Court. (See the chapter on
Old Elven Court for more facts.)
- Cormanthyr, Chapter 2: The Elven Mindset, section "Elven Death".

Also, there's Hamatree spell (from Hanali Celanil), which binds the caster's lifeforce to a tree, if this counts.

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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
15724 Posts

Posted - 10 Sep 2016 :  21:12:46  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Interesting bit about the Aspen trees - I will definitely have to roll that into my fey lore. Thanks.

quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal

I have a similar take to Markustay. The only difference is that I have the plane of faerie as a transitive plane in its own right so the fey have no need to exist on the astral plane.
Not so much the 'astral proper', but rather, Fey are native to the Plane of Dreams, which, because its a manifestation of the subconscious mind, is a sub-section of the Astral (the Plane of Thought). I did THIS MAP quite some time ago, but its still pretty nifty, I think.

The entire Plane of Dreams is coterminous to the Prime Material. Just as the Astral is - think of it as another 'layer' within the Astral (but not quite - we are talking about 5+ dimensional space here). You could even split the astral into at least three super-layers - The Conscious (Astral proper), Subconscious (Dream-reality), and Id (Reptilian, or 'primal' brain).

In fact, the 'Wizard of Id' is rather famous.

Fey from faerie can 'slip' back and forth between the Prime and their realm fairly easily, just by finding a 'Fey gate' (MANY different types of those). Lythari use them - at least the ones who haven't forgotten how (like those in the Taan region). That brings me to the 'forgetting' thing. Fey are naturally given to being 'flighty' (being spirits and all), and thus, don't really spend a lot of time of studying or writing things down. Thus, after just a few generations of one group living in the Prime Material, they could have completely forgotten how to get back to Faerie (some very old members of the Troupe might recall... but no-one bothers to ask).

And 'forgetting' is a lynchpin of the Forgotten Realms. In fact, now that I think about it, this ties directly into my other theories about Toril itself being some sort of 'fulcrum' for the (D&D) universe. What if the universe is designed to make folks forget about other dimensions/worlds? Thus, when a group wanders into another world by accident (another major part of the FR setting), they always seem to 'lose' their way home. Maybe thats meant to work that way - the 'gods' or whatever don't want a lot of this intermingling (cosmic cross-pollination) to occur, so that is their fail-safe. They can't prevent it from happening (lots of 'holes' left over from the First Godwar), but they can make people simply forget after a time where they came from (which explains MUCH about fantasy settings in general, myths & folklore, and also Ravenloft, which embraces that notion whole-heartedly).

Put quite simply, once you enter 'a new reality', that one becomes your reality. With some worlds/planes, this 'forgetting' happens quicker than in others (ie., Ravenloft, Faerie, etc.)

And now I went off on a totally different side-tangent. Every idea leads to a dozen others.


EDIT: All of the above is opinion/theory of my own making, and NOT official canon.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 10 Sep 2016 21:26:43
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