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RavenShadow
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Apr 2016 : 18:23:57
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Well met.
I apologize if this has been asked before. I conducted a search, but couldn't find the answer.
In The Ruins of Undermountain boxed set, it is stated that spells such as teleport, dimension door, passwall, etc, either won't work properly, or so not work at all in the dungeon due to the prohibitive magics that Halaster placed in the walls, floors, and ceiling. The walls will not allow anything to pass through them.
My question is this: what about gate, plane shift, a cubic gate magical item, a shade's ability to enter the plane of shadow, etc?
Technically, I don't see any of those spells/items/abilities passing through the walls;rather, I would think that they open a hole in reality that you can step through.
What are your thoughts on these examples? I am also planning an encounter for my PCs in Undermountain with Tanar'ri, and I wanted to know if they could gate in larger demons.
Finally, how would a portable hole operate? Since it doesn't go anywhere, and simply opens a finite extradimensional soace, would that work properly in Undermountain, or would it have issues as well?
Thanks in advance for your replies.
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Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand this storm." The warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2016 : 18:38:13
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From page 16 of the Campaign Guide to Undermountain:
quote:
In a like manner, spells that summon creatures and items from outside the dungeon do not work. A monster summoning, for instance, only calls on creatures already in Undermountain. Most magical items that summon things from elsewhere (such as horns of Valhalla) do work. All items that create their own extra-dimensional areas (such as bags of holding and portable holes) also operate. Any further exceptions to all of these magical prohibitions are noted in the text.
quote:
No magical methods of escape are possible unless such magics don't touch or pass through any stone walls, doors, floors or ceilings.
My personal ruling would be that planar magics were similarly disallowed, and ditto for a shade sidestepping out. |
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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 21 Apr 2016 18:38:55 |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2016 : 20:40:53
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| Does anyone get the paradox? If bags of holding and portable holes do function within Undermountain, then if you placed the portable hole within the bag of holding (or vice versa), would it open a rift to the astral plane? |
- Ryan |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2016 : 20:50:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
Does anyone get the paradox? If bags of holding and portable holes do function within Undermountain, then if you placed the portable hole within the bag of holding (or vice versa), would it open a rift to the astral plane?
I would say that the magics of Undermountain would greatly interfere, if not entirely block, that rift to the Astral. I'd give it no more than a 20% chance of opening a rift to the Astral. The greater odds would be that a rift would indeed open, but it would dump you -- possibly without your possessions -- at some random point within Undermountain.
Even if you kept to the rules as written, which is worse -- Undermountain or being dumped in the Astral? |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
316 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2016 : 21:11:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I would say that the magics of Undermountain would greatly interfere, if not entirely block, that rift to the Astral. I'd give it no more than a 20% chance of opening a rift to the Astral. The greater odds would be that a rift would indeed open, but it would dump you -- possibly without your possessions -- at some random point within Undermountain.
Even if you kept to the rules as written, which is worse -- Undermountain or being dumped in the Astral?
Now that is an interesting idea. In Undermountain, if you're faced within imminent death (or the equivalent), using a bag of holding and portable hole to escape via an astral rift might be the better gamble!
I do like the idea of getting dumped elsewhere in Undermountain rather than the Astral Plane. |
- Ryan |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2016 : 22:44:18
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Even if you kept to the rules as written, which is worse -- Undermountain or being dumped in the Astral?
That depends, how do you say "I come in peace" in Githyanki?
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Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 21 Apr 2016 : 23:47:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Even if you kept to the rules as written, which is worse -- Undermountain or being dumped in the Astral?
That depends, how do you say "I come in peace" in Githyanki?
On the flip side, how do you say it in drow when you're dumped into drow encampment or temple in Undermountion, or how do you say it in draconic when you're suddenly half-buried in a dragon's hoard? |
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RavenShadow
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2016 : 02:22:41
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| Thanks again for the replies. |
Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand this storm." The warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." |
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RavenShadow
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2016 : 03:49:26
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So, I'm still mulling this over. I feel like it's a bit of a contradiction to allow a Horn of Valhalla to summon berserkers from that plane into Undermountain, but not allow planar magic to get you out. I mean, how else is the Horn summoning the warriors from one plane of existence to another if not for planar magic?
And if that magic works, wouldn't a gate work? After all, that's how creatures/NPCs are being brought into the dungeon, yes? I suppose I can kind of see the argument against a gate spell (I'll just have the tanar'ri gate in the goristro from a lower level of the dungeon where it's waiting if I need to), but the spell description specifically states "...it causes an interdimensional connection between the plane of existence between the plane the wizard is on and the plane on which dwells a specific being of great power; thus, the being is able to merely step through the gate of portal from its home plane to that of the caster."
I'll have to let it percolate for a bit longer, I guess.
Once again, I appreciate the help.
Also, vis a vis the statement "No magical methods of escape are possible unless such magics don't touch or pass through any stone walls, doors, floors or ceilings.", can anyone give me any examples that would work that don't involve planar magic? |
Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand this storm." The warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." |
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RavenShadow
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2016 : 03:50:18
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| *or portal |
Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand this storm." The warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2016 : 04:09:31
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| Eki, eki, eki. Nock wot niniba. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2016 : 04:21:31
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quote:
Originally posted by RavenShadow
So, I'm still mulling this over. I feel like it's a bit of a contradiction to allow a Horn of Valhalla to summon berserkers from that plane into Undermountain, but not allow planar magic to get you out. I mean, how else is the Horn summoning the warriors from one plane of existence to another if not for planar magic?
And if that magic works, wouldn't a gate work? After all, that's how creatures/NPCs are being brought into the dungeon, yes? I suppose I can kind of see the argument against a gate spell (I'll just have the tanar'ri gate in the goristro from a lower level of the dungeon where it's waiting if I need to), but the spell description specifically states "...it causes an interdimensional connection between the plane of existence between the plane the wizard is on and the plane on which dwells a specific being of great power; thus, the being is able to merely step through the gate of portal from its home plane to that of the caster."
I'll have to let it percolate for a bit longer, I guess.
Once again, I appreciate the help.
Also, vis a vis the statement "No magical methods of escape are possible unless such magics don't touch or pass through any stone walls, doors, floors or ceilings.", can anyone give me any examples that would work that don't involve planar magic?
I think it's this way: you can't open a portal to another plane, but if the object itself functions as the portal, that works.
Something like a portable hole or a horn of Valhalla is its own portal, but anything that actually invokes a portal into existence doesn't work. |
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RavenShadow
Acolyte
USA
16 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2016 : 05:04:40
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I think it's this way: you can't open a portal to another plane, but if the object itself functions as the portal, that works.
Something like a portable hole or a horn of Valhalla is its own portal, but anything that actually invokes a portal into existence doesn't work.
[/quote]
Now that makes sense. And it solves the logical inconsistency. I like it. Thanks  |
Fate whispers to the warrior, "You cannot withstand this storm." The warrior whispers back, "I am the storm." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12194 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2016 : 13:30:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Fellfire
Even if you kept to the rules as written, which is worse -- Undermountain or being dumped in the Astral?
That depends, how do you say "I come in peace" in Githyanki?
I think the direct translation is "I surrender and submit myself to your will and the will of your great Queen". |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Undermountain
