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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 00:59:39
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regarding Tellerth (and I'm going from memory here) wasn't that the village right on the border of the Rawlinswood just west of Damara with Dun-Tharos in it? Weren't there volodni in that forest as well? It might be interesting if there's some involvement with volodni interacting with the outside world via this village (i.e. they act as intermediaries). Just a thought. Also, wasn't this village where the boy baron was getting raised in secret (Donlevy the Younger)? Perhaps some hidden lesser nobility in this town might fit (ones that might have been able to have survive the purge).
On a name for the war between Zhengyi's and King Virdin Bloodfeathers' forces, what about a name that downplays Zhengyi's final title that he claimed (i.e. Witch-King).... The Witch Tyrant's War... or a reference to the king, The Bloodfeathers War.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 12:57:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Thankyou, I also find much of Damara unpalatable because of certain influences and inclusion of things from other settings that dont fit.
Rather than discard them I'm trying to realsmify them in whatever way is possible (although even I will have trouble with Thunkers of the Thunkers).
The Vaasan War seems a bit too generic for me and doesnt necessarily follow with the theme of naming wars in other places. But for now I guess it is the Vaasan War.
As for the Witch King, I have an idea that I am discussing with the master of linguistics which should be a simple fix, similar to Mariabronne becoming Maryar (which fits Damaran naming conventions) and Bronne as a title.
Tellerth is indeed the village on the eastern border of Damara near Rawlinswood. Now that you mention it, it is a great place for nobility to hide out. I've got a concept of lesser nobility (unlandef nobles whose families once owned land and titles in Vaasa but lost them over the centuries).
Not looking much at the Rawlinswood yet (it's too big) but I'm certain the success of the druids of the Lethyr circle has led to one or more druid circles popping up in Damara and might explain all the fairy folk in the adventures (the Olean Circle is definitely the name of one according to Road of the Patriarch)
Just a third thought on the war name... this war would be known for the "fall of the Bloodfeathers Dynasty".... it might be known as the War of King Virdin, War of Virdin Bloodfeathers, or something like "The Fall of House Bloodfeathers" |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 14:38:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Rather than the fall of the Bloodfeathers Dynasty i could do a cryptic reference to the fall of that dynasty and the consequences it wrought.
The War of Bloodied Houses, refers to the destruction of the Royal House of Bloodfeathers, and the destruction of various noble houses, and the literal destruction of homes in Damara.
I prefer the names of wars to not be too literal, the War of God and Gloom, the Mindstalker Wars, the Crown Wars. It just sounds better.
Then i could use the rather generic Vaasan Wars to refer to both the War of Bloodied Houses and the Bloodstone Wars together.
Oh, I think you just hit on something there... it wasn't just the fall of the House of Bloodfeathers. It was the fall of ALL the noble houses. I don't know that I like these particular ideas, but something like "The War of Aristocracy's Death" or "The Noble Bloodletting".
EDIT: Actually... the War of Bloodied Houses works pretty good too now that I think on it more. I like that. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 11 Aug 2021 14:47:55 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 14:49:41
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The War of Bloodied Houses has a great ring to it.
--Eric
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Rather than the fall of the Bloodfeathers Dynasty i could do a cryptic reference to the fall of that dynasty and the consequences it wrought.
The War of Bloodied Houses, refers to the destruction of the Royal House of Bloodfeathers, and the destruction of various noble houses, and the literal destruction of homes in Damara.
I prefer the names of wars to not be too literal, the War of God and Gloom, the Mindstalker Wars, the Crown Wars. It just sounds better.
Then i could use the rather generic Vaasan Wars to refer to both the War of Bloodied Houses and the Bloodstone Wars together.
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 16:37:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I was looking at naming a particular day where most nobles were slain as Daggerfalls, perhaps the Bloodletting would work for that.
I was kind of thinking the same thing, that there should be a name for THAT day (kind of like how people think of 9/11). The Bloodletting is too generic though. See if any of these work
The Noble Bloodletting
The August Bloodletting
The Majestic Bloodletting
The Grand Bloodletting
The Resplendent Bloodletting
or something like
The Day of Noble Murder
The Day of Majestic Murder
The Day of August Assassins
The Majestic Massacre |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 11 Aug 2021 16:42:41 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2021 : 23:28:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
The August bloodletting sounds best to my ears but I need to think about ramifications of using a word tied to real world history.
Perhaps the Day of Blue Bloodletting, blue being the colour of noble blood among other things, as the saying goes.
I wouldn't use August.
The Marpenoth Murders?
The Feathersfall?
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2021 : 22:21:53
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| The Assassin's Run is a bit of a weird duck. Look at Dragon #64 and recognize Ed was talking about Athkatla. |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2021 : 16:47:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
After read ing through the sellswords trilogy I'm struck by a few things regarding zhengyi.
1 - the trilogy mentions soul gems multiple times
2 - the trilogy hints at zhengyis return many times
3 - I got the feeling herminicle was transforming into zhengyi, his words made it seem that way
4 - creatures tied to soul gems are unable to leave their tower
Now I've heard of soul gems before, used by demiliches. Could it be that zhengyi is a demilich. If so, was the zhengyi that we know about even the real zhengyi (he could have been just another lich possessed by zhengyi
Then there is the novel If They Ever Happened Upon My Lair. As far as naming conventions go it was one of his better novels.
In it Zhengyi uses magic to project an image 20+ miles away, he cant interact with things and cast spells through this image.
So if Zhengyi can manifest this projected image over great distances, and if those beings tied to soul gems cannot leave their tower, is it not possible that Zhengyi in 1358 was just a possessed licking and that he never actually left Castle Perilous but did in fact project his image when needed (although I dont ever recall an instance of him leaving castle perilous.
This begs my next question. How did Zhengyi acquire the power to project an image over so many miles. If he did appear at the Battle of the Ford, or on Bloodstone Village, or in the Citadel of Assassins, then that's over 50 miles away I believe.
Some things to bear in mind with regards to Zhengyi that COULD be used to play things up.
First, as you probably note somewhere in here, he is an EX-red wizard. I've often wondered about that EX part of it and whether he, as a "renegade" red wizard, had any involvement with the other "renegade" red wizard that has so much notoriety (Velsharoon the Vaunted). To add to this, I think my musings may have synched with George's because he added Zhengyi as one of the founding members of Thay and had him involved with the Athora in his "Tyrants in Scarlet" offering on DM's Guild (where it also says he's from Halruaa and gives him a last name Arulath). To note, that same article has Ythazz Buvarr instantly becoming a demilich as a result of the energies of the athora being released AND "destroying" the body of the conjurer/summoner of Eltab, Jorgmacdon Odesseiron
One of the things we've wondered is HOW did the Athora's energies affect Zhengyi. To add to this, for THAYD (i.e. head of the Theurgist Adepts/"last Imaskari"/supposed reason for Orcgate War) its been said by Ed that he in many ways acts like the beings we know of as "Suel Liches". Thus, they possess other beings and burn their bodies out. For all we know, Zhengyi was the same way.
I personally prefer the idea that SOME of these beings, rather than being "destroyed" were sent "to the place where vestiges go" as a result of their interaction with the energy of the athora. This puts the source of the energy of the Athora as very much in question and makes it a very unusual artifact that we can do a lot with. In doing this, I can make Jorgmacdon a vestige in some campaigns if I want to (in 5e, I've brought him back as having been rescued from the pit of Maleficence in Peleverai, the same one that once held Gargauth, which has ties to more than the hells in my homebrew. Its similar to the wells of darkness AND it may have a portion of the Athora there as well (and there may be some linkage of demoncysts to said artifact as well, since in theory there is a demoncyst where Eltab was bound in Thay as the source of the river that fed Eltabbar).
Other options were that back in 2nd edition there were spells to inhabit a dead body and use it as your "vessel" to enter an area, etc... (kind of like mind jar, but using a dead body). There were also spells to project spells through a scrying medium. I would not be surprised if Zhengyi was using multiples of these types of methods.
Sidenote: there's also GOOD EX-red wizard in the area as well who founded the Twilight Riders (Myrddin Viligoth... who in 3rd edition I turned into a paladin/wizard of Ilmater).
From George's article below
In the aftermath of Thay’s independence, Ythazz Buvarr and his zulkir companions sought answers to the wellspring of magic they had tapped to both summon and bind the fiend Eltab to their bidding. Their quest unveiled to them the majesty and sheer might of magic that was the Athora in the Year of Sudden Sorrows (941 DR). In their folly they sought to wrest parts of the Athora free so as to carry them on their person and call on its power at will. Their efforts resulted in a magical backlash that saw the cavern containing the Athora collapse, burying it and slaying over a score of the most powerful Red Wizards, including the zulkir Jorgmacdon. Ythazz was saved only by his pre-prepared spell contingencies that whisked him away to a hidden lair but the power of the Athora triggered his transformation to lichdom and accelerated it so that within a matter of months he had become an insane demi-lich, shunned by all. Both Velsharoon and Zhengyi escaped the explosion but were severely wounded such that when Tarloth Narmandur struck at them from the shadows, they were forced to flee Thay leaving it without clear leaders. Rudderless, the Red Wizards of Thay showed all the worst traits associated with grasping wizards presented with an opportunity to seize power. Attempts to govern their number by means of a Grand Council failed utterly when the factions of the powerful Red Wizards Tarragas and Haramadonn “the Flame-Etched” annihilated themselves and a score of neutrals at a gathering held ostensibly to discuss a system of rule. All the while Tarloth Narmandur took his opportunity to winnow the Red Wizard ranks of any mage he deemed a potential threat. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 15 Aug 2021 17:05:32 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2021 : 17:47:52
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Zhengyi is mentioned to like Orcus, hate living beings (though Orcus is mentioned as hating all things, undead just kinda a bit less and he thinks can control them), so it could be a factor in it. Fiendish Codex also mentioned undead can be forced by pacts or compelled by Orcus' power to serve him.
It's possible Zhengyi made a pact with Orcus, possibly even tied to how he became a Lich, with Orcus using his power and porfolio to compell Zhengyi to outright worship him over time, also their shared hatred of living.
It's also possible Zhengyi worshipped Orcus before lichdom.
But I don't know any offical stance on this.
I also now discovered Zhengyi's name, is Chinese in origin - Zhengyi, Zheng Yi - "Orthodox Unity".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zhengyi_Dao
I don't remember it being elaborated, or suggested in Forgotten Realms lore that Zhengyi had any connected Shou Lung (though Imaskar to which Thay is connected via Thayd, is connected to Shou), or the Bloodstone Pass Saga (about Zhengyi's origin, beyond his name). |
Edited by - Baltas on 16 Aug 2021 18:22:29 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2021 : 20:50:31
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I wouldn't link him to the Shou at all (and I pronounce is differently personally.... I say Zhen-gee-yee.... maybe that's wrong, but its how its implanted).
On why he worships Orcus and his involvement with the Athora, I've long held a suspicion that Zhengyi was looking to gain access to the mysteries of Dun-Tharos and Narfell and didn't actually much care about ruling Damara. I believe that Jorgmacdon Odesseiron (the first Zulkir of Conjuration who summoned/bound Eltab) and Zhengyi were both deeply interested with the demoncysts and Narfell (remembering that the place where Eltab bound was a demoncyst, but it was also where they found the athora). Jorgmacdon (as a conjurer) would have been interested in Narfell for its demonic lore, and Zhengyi for its necromantic lore (remember during much of its history, Narfell worshipped Orcus, so they had lots of necromancy as well).
I have a suspicion that the binding of the "hidden layer" of the Abyss to the realms (creating demoncysts) via the adamantine seal may have involved using the power of the athora, and certain key locations of Narfell may have also held "pieces" of the athora pulled away by nar tribesmen during the orcgate wars. It may even be that the athora had some involvement with powering the orcgate or summoning the avatars of the orcish gods, and that the defeat of the orcish avatars involved breaking apart the athora by the Mulan manifestations or something similar.
I do like your idea of Zhengyi binding himself to a piece of the Athora in a ritual like lichdom. Perhaps in so doing, he cannot be destroyed utterly without destroying the entire athora. Perhaps he traded to Orcus for information to stabilize himself after the explosion of the athora (such that unlike Ythazz Buvarr, who became a lich but "turned quickly into a demilich"... Zhengyi stayed in lich form), and perhaps the trade off was that Orcus required him to conquer the "ancient lands of Narfell" in his name. Possibly Orcus was looking for something there as well that his past worshippers had left behind. Since many of Kiaransalee's worshippers are also in the mountains in that area (per demihuman deities, in the former drow city of V’elddrinnsshar). To note as well that Dun-Tharos is also linked back to the dark elven city of Narathmault as well, which was also noted to have a lot of entrapped demons, etc.... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2021 : 13:10:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
I too thought Zhengyi was slain in the explosion, but apparently not. He was alive when he fled Thay, and it kind of works out because his first dragon friend (one detailed in the throne of bloodstone) was enslaved while he was alive, so I think he became a lich around the time he entered Damara.
As for motivation for conquering Damara. That one is written in Knight of the Living Dead. Orcus is using the portals in Vaasa to enter Toril, the portals in question are a network of spellweaver portals named Garuut-Cu, the main one of which is centred under Castle Perilous.
Zhengyu must have had to go to each portal in the network and point it to the Abyss (one of these portals was in the Mines of Bloodstone). Once all connected Orcus can come through.
I would imagine you cant use just any portal to connect to the Abyss, I think it has to be special, and Garuut-Cu qualifies. Maybe the empire of Narfell tried to conquer the Netarand way back when because they were looking for the Orcgate to bring a demon lord to the material plane.
Knight of the living dead... that was one of the choose your own adventure type kids books, correct? I don't think I've ever had it. Any chance you can give some quotes from it regarding the Garuut-Cu, because otherwise I'm betting that info will be lost to time? That actually sounds interesting to some degree and something we can build a lot from. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2021 : 17:59:28
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A few quotes from Knight of the Living Dead
62B
quote:
"If all this fabled Waterdeep can come up with is trinkets
like this staff, where is its power? Where is the
power in all your Realms? The conquest of your Material
Plane will be easier than I had imagined. I have been
deluded. I have squandered my energy on illusionists!"
Orcus's tantrum reveals to you the flaws of its demonic
character. Subtle and brilliant though it is, it leaps
impulsively to conclusions. It mistakes its supremacy in
the realm of the Abyss for equal superiority in the Prime
Material Plane, where its power is weaker. And it makes
no allowance for the bravery and teamwork of human
opponents. Orcus may yet fail to conquer in Vaasa.
113A
quote:
It was Orcus who provided the liches with the magic to
create this vast construct, the Effluvium, the gate in the
catacombs beneath the House of the Homeless, and all
the other details of this fiendish plot. For Orcus, it is
merely a diversion. He plots to conquer the Realms and
establish a base in this dimension, starting with the
nation of Vaasa, far to the east. That land's Great Glacier
is the focus of his scheme.
The demon hopes that by destroying Waterdeep, he
will lure powerful magi away to the west, leaving him to
develop his main plan free of their interference. And all
this would be brought about by a mere fraction of
Orcus's power!
150A
quote:
Orcus ruminates on this, speaking to itself. "Tolerable.
As long as the magi go to Waterdeep to battle the
construct, they do not flout me in Vaasa and Bloodstone
Pass. Soon I will finish my portal and enter the Realms."
It takes notice of you again. "The liches could have
reported this themselves. What brings you to me?"
From those i took that to mean Orcus had long planned to enter the Material Plane in Vaasa and conquer the land. Zhengyi being a major worshipper of Orcus, and active in Vaasa, who built Castle Perilous atop the portal Garuut-Cu, i'm assuming he Zhengyi is the means for Orcus to implement his plan.
In the Mines of Bloodstone there is a mercurial pool that acts as a portal of sorts. In the Throne of Bloodstone there is another mercurial pool that leads to the Abyss. So i connected then together and figured that Garuut-Cu is not a single portal but a nexus of portals that allow you to open a two way portal anywhere you like providing you configure the surrounding portals correctly (kind of like triangulating your position).
So the central portal is beneath Castle Perilous, a connected portal is south of it in Bloodstone Pass. Perhaps another lies to the east near Urshula's lair. Another in the west around Veldrinshalar (sp). And a final one in the north perhaps around Mt. Okk. |
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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 17 Aug 2021 19:07:52 |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2067 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2021 : 18:37:39
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Gary,
Since I don't have a searchable version of KotLD, could you include section #s for the Orcus and Garuut-Cu refs?
--Eric |
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http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2021 : 19:42:00
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Just a bit of a thought here.... so he "built" Castle perilous atop a portal with a nexus that connects to the Abyss. He built it in Vaasa, a place that likely had some links to Narfell (though moreso in Damara since Vaasa may have been ice covered). Where else have we seen "sudden fortifications" appearing in the realms with ties to a strange "metallic crystal" known as Chardalyn that draws energy from the abyss? Also, a strange series of "portals" or "links" to the Abyss from the realms IN the area of Narfell... the place specifically noted for demoncysts where a layer of the abyss is haphazardly linked to Toril?
Now, I'm not saying to link Crenshinibon with the bloodstone lands, but perhaps there is something to "Chardalyn" and its found all across the realms.... where it may be known by other names. For instance, plangent crystals, curna emeralds, etc... might be somethng similar as well. The athora as well might be a similar type of material, but perhaps "exceptionally enriched" in the way that you can have uranium and "enriched uranium".
Furthermore, regarding demoncysts and the hidden layer of the Abyss being enmeshed with Toril..... what if THAT was an experiment? An experiment that went wrong for some reason (such as Fraz'Urb'luu via his son Rheligaun the Horned of Narfell?), but Orcus wasn't going to "open a portal" from the abyss to the prime. Maybe he was going to transfer a portion of his layer OF the abyss TO the prime.
Like Eric, I'd be very interested to see the actual Garuut-Cu references (is that in mines of bloodstone or KotLD?) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Aug 2021 19:44:50 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Vaasa, damara, narfell
