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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Mar 2004 : 17:26:15
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I'm helping a player flesh out her druid PC in my campaign, and I'm getting a bit frustrated. Is it me, or does the 3.5 ed. druid just seem to be a cleric that has a few different granted powers?
The way that I've handled clerics in the realms IMC is to model each faith using Eric Boyd's god books as a model and mold each faith into a 3rd edition "Specialty priest." This allows me to show distinctive differences between faiths and really diferentiate one religion from another.
Problem is, if druids are handled in this way, they're nothing more than another specialty cleric with a unique set of granted powers. What things have you done with the class to make them different and distinctive from clerics?
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"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 05:29:18
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Hello? Anyone home? The halls of Candlekeep have been the target of a silence spell... |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 15:07:58
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I'm sorry, Erza, but I never use druids as a PC. Mayhaps there are other scribes who may be able to help you. I'm ashamed to say I can't......  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 16:31:50
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| I'm afraid I also can't. I don't know how you treat clerics, exactly, so I can't really advise you on how to make a druid that's different from a cleric of a nature god. Are you talking roleplay or gameplay? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 17:15:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
I'm afraid I also can't. I don't know how you treat clerics, exactly, so I can't really advise you on how to make a druid that's different from a cleric of a nature god. Are you talking roleplay or gameplay?
Both, I think. I was thinking that maybe instead of making a druid just a cleric of a nature god with different granted powers, the very nature of the magic that a druid uses would be different. Perhaps, instead of being granted their spells by a nature deity such as Eldath or Silvanus, the druid draws their divine power directly from the power of the earth (sort of a 'Gaia' idea, I guess). From that perspective, the whole way a druid is handled becomes very different from a cleric. I'm just tossing a few ideas around and wanted to see what everyone else does. |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 17:49:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
Perhaps, instead of being granted their spells by a nature deity such as Eldath or Silvanus, the druid draws their divine power directly from the power of the earth (sort of a 'Gaia' idea, I guess). From that perspective, the whole way a druid is handled becomes very different from a cleric.
Actually, that's the standard 3e druid right there. It's just that in the Realms, Mr. Greenwood changed the whole druid-class concept into what we have today.
Personally, I draw a distinction between divine spellcasters: the type of magic of rangers and druids are very different from paladins and clerics. (Leaving aside the fact that I prefer the non-spellcasting rangers and paladins from The Complete Warrior better.) To me, druids and rangers aren't divine casters at all -- they use nature-magic instead. That is, they draw their energy from the same energy produced by life itself. (Not by "Gaia," so to speak -- it's more like the Force. But I'm sure you already figured that part out.) |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 18:52:04
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I like the idea conceptually. How do I translate the concept into mechanics in a way that creates a balanced class, but one that is distinctly different from a cleric? Would it be in the way that the druid regains her spells? In the manner in which they are cast? If the druid draws upon "earthpower" (for lack of a better term), would there be areas where said power would be concentrated? Absent? Varied in its effect based upon the type of terrain?
I've also been giving some thought to the Unearthed Arcana concept of racial variants for different environments, but applying the idea to the druid. My normal iconic druid is this guy who lives in forests and protects trees. Would there be significant differences between a forest druid and, say, a mountain druid? A desert druid? An arctic druid? Is such an idea even worth pursuing? |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 16:47:48
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I think it is. You might even be able to tweak it in the direction of "speciallist" druids.
Earth (mountain), opposing Air
Forest, opposing Fire
Fire (dessert), opposing Water
Water (ocean/river), opposing Fire
Air (that environment would be a bit trickier), opposing Earth
And then you'd have a generalist, who concentrates on all aspects of nature.
However, that means a substantial re-working of the class, in order to maintain gameplay balance. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 01:12:17
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This isn't specific advice, but more along the lines of things to check out for inspiration.
You may want to look at the King of the Wild prestige class from Masters of the Wild and the Elemental Archon prestige class from Faiths and Powers. The King of the Wild really conveys the connectivity that an individual can have with the home environment they have chosen to defend/live in. The Elemental Archon may give you some direction for specializing druids that are dedicated to a particular element.
Sarta |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2004 : 01:56:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
Fire (dessert), opposing Water
Hmm, does this include Ice Cream Sundaes? I think you mean deserts, Bookwyrm. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2004 : 17:11:52
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| Thanks. I often mistype things like that. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 09:07:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
Perhaps, instead of being granted their spells by a nature deity such as Eldath or Silvanus, the druid draws their divine power directly from the power of the earth (sort of a 'Gaia' idea, I guess). From that perspective, the whole way a druid is handled becomes very different from a cleric.
Brother Ezra, here's an alternate idea (from one of my two homebrew worlds) that I've been tinkering with. It mostly handles the energy-drawing ability for a similar, yet alternate Druid -
Basically, Druids call upon the World Spirit for their spell energy. The World Spirit is a primal being which inhabits the planet, aptly named Spirit that the campaign setting mostly takes place on. The being is child-like and violent, and her druids aren't much better than she is. However, without their cooing songs and rituals, the planet would surely rise against the living beings crawling upon it's surface and devour them whole before destroying itself. The spell energy they call upon actually drains the life energy of the World Spirit, keeping the planetoid entity in a constant state of sedation so that it may not do any harm. Despite this important duty, the druids often make bloody war against the technological and civilized nations which exist on the surface of the planet. Also, because of the living nature of the planet, Spirit's wild and plant life are constantly in turmoil, leaving much of the planet's surface a deadly jungle riddled with giant monsters, uncontrolled elemental creatures, and massive animals which constantly prey on one another and man/elf/dwarf, etc. alike. The druids often use these manifestations of nature against their enemies, both technological and undead.
Now, I know that this interpretation of the standard Druid may sound a little more violent (or at least pro-active), but keep in mind that the world of Spirit, is a very dangerous place.
I'm not sure how much help it will be in total, but it might provide you with some ideas that you can generate to forge your own interpretation of a Gaia-based Druid...
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2004 : 16:50:26
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Thanks so much for all of the ideas everyone. I've been tinkering with the class a lot for the past few days, trying to figure out the elemental approach that Bookwyrm suggested, but I keep getting caught up at forests. Yes, we can equate terrain types to one of the four basic elements (I would suggest grassland/plain/tundra for the air element), but what about the forest terrain? Would the forest be the perfect blend of all four elements? I think there may be justification for this, since even fire can be an important element in the life-cycle of a forest. Wind (air), rain (water) and soil (earth) are no-brainers.
I've discounted arctic and tropical since they describe climates, not terrains.
I like the sages idea about drawing upon the power of the world itself as the source of druidic magic, but since I'm running a realms campaign, I think I'll keep the force a little more benign. Toril is a happy world. Have any of you read Stephen R. Donaldson's The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever? The rulers of the land in those novels practice a form of earth magic that is very similar to the feel I'm trying to achieve. |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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The 3.5 Druid
