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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 04:11:33
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I read on Facebook that Paul S Kemp left Wizards. Is this true? If so, that is saddening. I loved the Cale books, and was hope for a Godborn sequel. Does anyone else know anything about this?
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Sweet water and light laughter |
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Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 04:17:59
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| Nothing on his blog that I am aware of, unfortunately. That's a sad thing, because Cale was a great character. |
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 04:22:12
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| He's still willing to do novels, but he's said several times that he and WotC have a difference of opinion on something and he is unable or unwilling to write more stuff until the issue is resolved. He won't say what, and I don't blame him. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 04:26:56
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| All right. I don't want to add fuel to the rumor fire, but when I read about it, I thought I would inquire here. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 05:56:20
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I don't believe he ever actually worked for Wizards; he was another of their freelancers.
More than one author has commented on the pay from WotC not being comparable to what other publishing companies offer; I would suspect that could be part of the issue here. This is only a personal opinion, though, not backed up by anything concrete. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 12:48:13
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Paul was and is a freelance author. He couldn't come to an agreement with WotC regarding remuneration for further novels after the Godborn. Given this, he has advised that he won't be writing any WotC fiction for the forseeable future.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 16:24:36
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| It kind of sucks to learn that Kemp's not going to be writing another FR novel anytime soon, since I think he is one of the best writers around, but I can understand why he won't be writing for WotC. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 18:24:29
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Wizards of the Coast just keep getting better and better don't they?
I don't blame the man one bit. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 19:52:47
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This isn't exactly recent news.
We've known about this ever since Godborn was released.
I really wanted to read more Cale stories, but like Kemp wrote back then (I think!), when you have limited free time to do stuff, he expects a certain monetary return from the time he spends writing a novel.
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Wizards of the Coast just keep getting better and better don't they?
I don't blame the man one bit.
This coming from the guy that doesn't care about novels. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 19:58:35
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I'll hold judgement until the day I know the full story, thus probably never.
If WotC is only offering substandard payment, that definately appears to be their fault on the surface. However it could also mean that D&D novels simply make substandard profit and thus paying more is not in the picture. What "standard" rates are we talking about anyway? A "fantasy novel standard"? A "per XX,XXX books sold standard"? Is Paizo really paying more for Pathfinder novels or are we merely talking about WotC paying less for a FR novel than Disney for a Star Wars novel?
About having creative disagreements I would actually laud Wotc for doing so. In a shared world someone needs to take the reigns and not just let every author, even their star authors, run amok. You if the disagreement is like about Kemp wanting to have Mephistopheles slay and replace Asmodeus and WotC telling no, that's not how the D&D metastory will develop, then thumbs up WotC. If it's actually a overblown disagreement about some minor story arc, then it would be WotC's fault.
So without further information, I can't put the blame on either party. |
Edited by - Mirtek on 17 Dec 2015 19:59:42 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 21:27:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
This isn't exactly recent news.
We've known about this ever since Godborn was released.
I really wanted to read more Cale stories, but like Kemp wrote back then (I think!), when you have limited free time to do stuff, he expects a certain monetary return from the time he spends writing a novel.
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Wizards of the Coast just keep getting better and better don't they?
I don't blame the man one bit.
This coming from the guy that doesn't care about novels.
It was news to me. I hadn't heard. I thought after Godborn Kemp was going to write another. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2015 : 21:32:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Mirtek
I'll hold judgement until the day I know the full story, thus probably never.
If WotC is only offering substandard payment, that definately appears to be their fault on the surface. However it could also mean that D&D novels simply make substandard profit and thus paying more is not in the picture. What "standard" rates are we talking about anyway? A "fantasy novel standard"? A "per XX,XXX books sold standard"? Is Paizo really paying more for Pathfinder novels or are we merely talking about WotC paying less for a FR novel than Disney for a Star Wars novel?
About having creative disagreements I would actually laud Wotc for doing so. In a shared world someone needs to take the reigns and not just let every author, even their star authors, run amok. You if the disagreement is like about Kemp wanting to have Mephistopheles slay and replace Asmodeus and WotC telling no, that's not how the D&D metastory will develop, then thumbs up WotC. If it's actually a overblown disagreement about some minor story arc, then it would be WotC's fault.
So without further information, I can't put the blame on either party.
Or it could be about a major story arc they wanted Kemp to partake in and he said no. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 06:00:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Wizards of the Coast just keep getting better and better don't they?
They're not doing anything TSR didn't do. Look at the history of the vaporware novel Shores of Dusk.
Actually, WotC hasn't gone as far as TSR did, in that scenario. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 06:52:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Wizards of the Coast just keep getting better and better don't they?
They're not doing anything TSR didn't do. Look at the history of the vaporware novel Shores of Dusk.
Actually, WotC hasn't gone as far as TSR did, in that scenario.
Yeah but if it weren't for TSR you wouldn't have all that FR material lining your shelf. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 14:16:54
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The man had to do what he needed to do I guess.
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 14:32:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Wizards of the Coast just keep getting better and better don't they?
They're not doing anything TSR didn't do. Look at the history of the vaporware novel Shores of Dusk.
Actually, WotC hasn't gone as far as TSR did, in that scenario.
Yeah but if it weren't for TSR you wouldn't have all that FR material lining your shelf.
I'm not sure what you're trying to get at... You bashed WotC for not paying well; I pointed out that not only did TSR not pay well, they also decided to go the route of having someone else write an author's signature character, when the author refused because of pay issues. WotC has not gone that far. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 20:02:44
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
It was news to me. I hadn't heard. I thought after Godborn Kemp was going to write another.
It was something that was talked about here in Candlekeep and I think he even made a blogpost about it on his webpage.
Are you sure you didn't just read some old post on Facebook? |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 20:07:08
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I must have missed that discussion, and I don't follow his blog (though maybe I should).
No, the facebook post was new. It was a discussion on an FR fan page. Either way, old or no, it was news to me. Last I understood, another Cale book was in the works, so I assumed Kemp was still involved *shrugs* |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 20:18:08
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Can't find anything on his blog about the issues between him and WotC.
As for a new Cale book, I'm almost certain that Paul S Kemp never said another book was on the way. Ever since Godborn was released he'd always only say that he was available to write more if he could reach an agreement with WotC, and he never did.
I think I remember Kemp making a post here (or somewhere else and it was reposted here) when it was likely that a deal wasn't going to be made, and that was well over a year ago. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 18 Dec 2015 20:33:37 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2015 : 20:20:13
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| Perhaps it was just my assumption (hope) that there would be another lol |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6680 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2015 : 00:06:50
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Paul posted re writing for WotC in his Facebook post of 18/2/14.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
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PaulSKemp
Forgotten Realms Author
808 Posts |
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Aulduron
Learned Scribe
USA
343 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2015 : 18:47:23
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| You will be missed, as long as you're gone. |
"Those with talent become wizards, Those without talent spend their lives praying for it"
-Procopio Septus |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 27 Dec 2015 : 18:57:58
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| Another top-tier author driven off. Will they never learn? |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2016 : 13:29:55
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As always its about the money, and no, I can't imagine anyone thinks Paul should not insist on being paid what he is worth.
Wooly, the main difference I see between TSR and WOTC is that TSR was broke for years - in the end they were like 30 million in the hole or something like that. WOTC is totally solvent, and is in fact just one part of a multi billion dollar parent company (HASBRO for those of you who were not aware of all the buyouts of the late 90s :P).
I've worked for Hasbro in the past and let me tell ya, they throw money around like its air - 50 grand here, 300 grand there. For them to tell any writer they can't afford the going rate is one heck of a bad joke. For them to tell an established writer with a fan base that is unconscionable. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2016 : 15:24:45
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If that is their attitude then fair play to him for leaving.
Typical big corporation wanting something for nothing. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 03 Jan 2016 15:26:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2016 : 16:17:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Wooly, the main difference I see between TSR and WOTC is that TSR was broke for years - in the end they were like 30 million in the hole or something like that. WOTC is totally solvent, and is in fact just one part of a multi billion dollar parent company (HASBRO for those of you who were not aware of all the buyouts of the late 90s :P).
That is not at all relevant to the point I was making. Again, someone was bashing WotC, and I was pointing out that WotC was not going as far as TSR did. TSR decided that if a writer wouldn't write their signature character, they'd get someone else to do so. WotC has not gone that route.
I'm not defending WotC, I'm just trying to put things into perspective -- we've got too many people here who howl for WotC's blood anytime the company does something remotely disagreeable.
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
I've worked for Hasbro in the past and let me tell ya, they throw money around like its air - 50 grand here, 300 grand there. For them to tell any writer they can't afford the going rate is one heck of a bad joke. For them to tell an established writer with a fan base that is unconscionable.
So do we then have proof that someone at Hasbro made this call, and that WotC is not just a subsidiary that is responsible for its own bottom line? Everything I've seen was that WotC was a smaller part of a large group, and that they were running themselves with only the broadest guidance from the parent company -- and that guidance was mostly focused on the bottom line, and not how that bottom line was reached. If you have proof otherwise, or that someone at Hasbro decided how much WotC could offer it's authors, I'd love to see that.
Honestly, I think this is more a case of a bean counter saying "we need this much return on our investment, and we project this many books would be sold -- so the max we can offer is this amount." |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36905 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jan 2016 : 16:43:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Typical big corporation wanting something for nothing.
There's a difference between wanting something for nothing and wanting to make sure you get the desired return on your investment. As I said, I think it more likely they expect that a certain number of books would be sold, and that for them to get the desired profit margin, they can only offer a certain amount to the author.
Think about it: if you had the opportunity to spend X amount of dollars for a 10% profit, or the same amount for a 5% profit, which are you going to choose? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 05 Jan 2016 : 00:59:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Honestly, I think this is more a case of a bean counter saying "we need this much return on our investment, and we project this many books would be sold -- so the max we can offer is this amount."
I assume its exactly that. Most likely some Jr. VP said they can only pay writers X dollars because he forgot how to read after school before his daddy got him a cushy job at his college buddies company and he doesn't want to have to explain to his superiors how investing in talent is worthwhile, even when that talent is proven and popular. :) |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
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Kemp left?
