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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Oct 2015 : 12:14:24
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The other part of thinking like an elf is belief in the afterlife and the Seldarine. In other words, dying isn't the end of the world. Its more important to save the soul of Myth Drannor than save its body.
The Tshaddarna is the plane/demiplane where the Elminster, a sister, and the Srinshee along with some of the Knights of Myth Drannor cut down a few dozen of Larloch's liches. As far as I know the short story George mentioned is the only time it has ever been mentioned anywhere.
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1722 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 13:59:06
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Its more important to save the soul of Myth Drannor than save its body.
Exactly my thinking and approach to the Srinshee re: Myth Drannor.
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 16:40:34
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
The other part of thinking like an elf is belief in the afterlife and the Seldarine. In other words, dying isn't the end of the world. Its more important to save the soul of Myth Drannor than save its body.
The Tshaddarna is the plane/demiplane where the Elminster, a sister, and the Srinshee along with some of the Knights of Myth Drannor cut down a few dozen of Larloch's liches. As far as I know the short story George mentioned is the only time it has ever been mentioned anywhere.
Well if we want to get technical about it, the dream was nothing but an illusion. Obviously all the hatred and selfishness was there it was just held back by the might of Eltargrim. Basically how orc hoards usually operate. The Srinshee would have been better off assuming the role of regent until a proper ruler came to pass. The soul of Myth Drannor is just as corrupted now as it was then. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6372 Posts |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 17:16:02
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I like the line from the film gladiator that may apply in this instance.
"There once was a dream that was Rome, you could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish"
So the dream of myth drannor and the reality may have been very different, but that doesn't stop one dreaming.
Well you can't really see the dream come to light when the place is ravaged. Could have kept the city alive which would have kept the dream alive. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36845 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 17:40:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I like the line from the film gladiator that may apply in this instance.
"There once was a dream that was Rome, you could only whisper it. Anything more than a whisper and it would vanish"
So the dream of myth drannor and the reality may have been very different, but that doesn't stop one dreaming.
Well you can't really see the dream come to light when the place is ravaged. Could have kept the city alive which would have kept the dream alive.
Ah, but if things continued the way they were, things would have continued to get bad, and likely ended the dream that way. As it was, there remained a hope of rebuilding Myth Drannor -- I believe it was even referred to in one of the sourcebooks, as a common saying in the Dales. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2015 : 23:32:53
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And with its fall, Myth Drannor became not just a dream of one line of kings for their people, but a legend. In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"
Put more poetically:
"Oh Lion in a peculiar guise,
Sharp Roman road to Paradise,
Come eat me up, I'll pay thy toll
With all my flesh, and keep my soul." |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2015 : 06:00:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
And with its fall, Myth Drannor became not just a dream of one line of kings for their people, but a legend. In the words of Obi-Wan Kenobi "If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine"
Put more poetically:
"Oh Lion in a peculiar guise,
Sharp Roman road to Paradise,
Come eat me up, I'll pay thy toll
With all my flesh, and keep my soul."
You aren't comparing like for like. Eltargrim believed everything was all good but it turned out to be a lie. That would be like Obi-wan saying that only to not come back as a force ghost. What's the difference between Eltargrim ruling over a city who's inhabitants stay in check because of his power and the Srinshee ruling until a suitable ruler appears? She could have slowly gotten rid of the evil nobles and made the city into something actually special instead of one big lie.
Letting it fall preserves nothing because in truth, there was nothing to begin with. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2015 : 20:56:00
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So, in your mind Shadowsoul, a diamond with a flaw within is not a diamond at all? Look out. All the largest diamonds in the world just went from priceless to worthless.
By the way, Obi-wan was not saying he'd become a force ghost. He was saying his death would be the unending inspiration of the next generation of Jedi.
Seems to me as you have a slight, forest for the trees problem Shadow :) |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2015 : 21:08:21
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Eltargrim did not rule through power. At least, not in the bared-fist variant. Yes, he commanded the armies and wizards, but he didn't use them to enforce his rule. There are too many examples of him not doing so to count (but see for instance all of the people who came to protest, even commit arguable treason, during Elminster in Myth Drannor who he let leave unscathed.
Eltargrim ruled through respect, both of him personally, and of the institution of the Coronalship. His family had ruled Cormanthor since its founding, and by and large elves trusted him and his family.
The Shrinshee had no such power base. She was unknown to most, and those who did know her usually regarded her as one of the Coronal's troubleshooters (as in, shoot trouble until it's gone). She was chosen by the Rule Blade, so she might have been able to make it work, but she completely lacked the deep, institutional respect and deference that held all the factions at bay. She would have been a more polarizing ruler, and might have only accelerated the city's problems. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6675 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2015 : 23:58:51
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^ This.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2015 : 12:57:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
Eltargrim did not rule through power. At least, not in the bared-fist variant. Yes, he commanded the armies and wizards, but he didn't use them to enforce his rule. There are too many examples of him not doing so to count (but see for instance all of the people who came to protest, even commit arguable treason, during Elminster in Myth Drannor who he let leave unscathed.
Eltargrim ruled through respect, both of him personally, and of the institution of the Coronalship. His family had ruled Cormanthor since its founding, and by and large elves trusted him and his family.
The Shrinshee had no such power base. She was unknown to most, and those who did know her usually regarded her as one of the Coronal's troubleshooters (as in, shoot trouble until it's gone). She was chosen by the Rule Blade, so she might have been able to make it work, but she completely lacked the deep, institutional respect and deference that held all the factions at bay. She would have been a more polarizing ruler, and might have only accelerated the city's problems.
So is it not better to try and have failed then to not try and never know how it could have turned out?
I never said anything about Eltargrim needing to use his power, people knew just how powerful he was and how powerful were those people around him. Sometimes a battle can be won without ever needing to fire a shot. After he passed on, the evil nobles found their chance using the customs with regards to marrying his heir. I honestly don't think it's as deep and philosophical as you expect. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
Edited by - Shadowsoul on 31 Oct 2015 12:58:25 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2015 : 03:34:51
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Of course its as deep and philosophical as all that. How do you know for sure? The fall of Myth Drannor was written by Steven, who has confirmed what we're telling you :P. Easy Peasy. On this topic, his word is the be all end all, unless Ed decides to chime in, which we all know is highly unlikely.
Go back and re-read it with an eye trained for those subtleties. There are TONS of little hints about things that could be - read between the lines and you'll see them too. The whole source book is one big campaign builder giving you a thousand different hand-holds to grab onto about the whys and wherefores and whatnots of Myth Drannor and how you can put your own campaign into it all. |
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How come the Srinshee didn't protect Myth Drannor?
