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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Aug 2015 : 14:56:25
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Ok, this is kinda a brainstorming thread, egged on by something mentioned in passing before the Candlekeep Seminar at GenCon.
If Mystra, Selune, and Shar's churches were tossed in a blender of belief and heresy, what would the result be? What kind of heretical dogma would be spawned? What kind of following would such a cult have? What would its goals be? Who would be in charge? What would their history be?
I'm interested in your thoughts.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2015 : 15:34:56
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Here's my, somewhat fragmented, idea. This cult (that needs a name other than Dark Moon Heresy Plus One) believes that the creation myth involving Selune and Shar battling and Spawning Mystra is a lie told by the unbelievers. They are similar to the Dark Moon Heresy, but with an added aspect of arcane.
The three goddesses are one. They are not in conflict, but a complex manifestation of life.
Dogma ideas:
All life is fleeting, subject to the laws of entropy, waxing and waning with time. Magic fuels that spark in all of us that lives beyond our mortal body's death. Enjoy life, but embrace loss when it comes. Death is just a foreshadowing of the nothing that the multiverse is doomed to succumb to. Magic is the faltering energy that sustains us beyond physical death and keeps our souls intact until our final death at the end of time. Knowledge is passing, and limited. Embrace secrets, as they are minor tastes of the great secret of what lies beyond the end of time. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2015 : 16:26:13
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"The Church of Light & Darkness"
Light couldn't not exist without darkness. Darkness could not exist without Light. They define one another. Shadow exist in the places in-between, because very few places (in the material world) are either pure light or darkness.
Heres the weird thing - I had thought about a goddess like this for the Eastern Realms awhile back, when I was working on K-T stuff. I pictured her being about 'balance', and looking like Hel* from the 1e Deities & Demigods tome. I also had it where she came over from the Vedic/Indian pantheon from the south (Malatra).
*Minus the sword. Maybe a staff or scepter instead. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Aug 2015 16:26:59 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2015 : 16:40:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
"The Church of Light & Darkness"
Light couldn't not exist without darkness. Darkness could not exist without Light. They define one another. Shadow exist in the places in-between, because very few places (in the material world) are either pure light or darkness.
Heres the weird thing - I had thought about a goddess like this for the Eastern Realms awhile back, when I was working on K-T stuff. I pictured her being about 'balance', and looking like Hel* from the 1e Deities & Demigods tome. I also had it where she came over from the Vedic/Indian pantheon from the south (Malatra).
*Minus the sword. Maybe a staff or scepter instead.
Hmm. That gives me an idea that could be fun. Have a trio of wisemen from the East traveling across Faerūn, promoting this faith, and focusing on converting followers of the three goddesses.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 15:50:25
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I like that idea Markus (and I'd go with the scepter, the staff is too much of a 'standard' item for wizards). Anyway, I see no reason why "Hel" (or whatever name you give her) can't be a triune goddess. Let the eyes glow a bright blue or something to denote her presence and/or allow her hair to distinguish her presence with it's coloration.
Delwa, nice play on the three wise men concept.
I know some like having fewer deities in their games but I prefer more (and more and more and more) to make things messy. It's more realistic that way (IMHO) and allows for loads of fun and confusion...depending on the focus of one's campaign. Imagine a party that has a priest(ess) of Selune and "Hel" in it. The role playing between those players could be great. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 16:33:10
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I like that idea Markus (and I'd go with the scepter, the staff is too much of a 'standard' item for wizards). Anyway, I see no reason why "Hel" (or whatever name you give her) can't be a triune goddess. Let the eyes glow a bright blue or something to denote her presence and/or allow her hair to distinguish her presence with it's coloration.
Delwa, nice play on the three wise men concept.
I know some like having fewer deities in their games but I prefer more (and more and more and more) to make things messy. It's more realistic that way (IMHO) and allows for loads of fun and confusion...depending on the focus of one's campaign. Imagine a party that has a priest(ess) of Selune and "Hel" in it. The role playing between those players could be great.
Thanks! I was thinking each man could "specialize" in one of the three aspects, but all three priests hold that the three are one.
I do like having more deities than you can shake a stick at myself. But it really depends on who my PC's are whether I emphasise that or not. Some people just shut down when the lines are too blurred, and it makes it not fun to keep explaining things.  |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 17:25:22
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| What if, instead of mashing all three into one, you instead took the same approach as the Greek Fates? Make them three separate, yet intertwined entities, each supporting the next and being supported by the other. Selūne is the Light, Shar is the Darkness, and Mystra is the Balance between them -- the Power that allows mortals to strive for or against those forces. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 20:45:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
What if, instead of mashing all three into one, you instead took the same approach as the Greek Fates? Make them three separate, yet intertwined entities, each supporting the next and being supported by the other. Selūne is the Light, Shar is the Darkness, and Mystra is the Balance between them -- the Power that allows mortals to strive for or against those forces.
So instead of presenting the three goddesses as separate, warring entities, they are working together, but specializing in different aspects of life?
I could have both cults.... really stir the pot. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 21:06:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
What if, instead of mashing all three into one, you instead took the same approach as the Greek Fates? Make them three separate, yet intertwined entities, each supporting the next and being supported by the other. Selūne is the Light, Shar is the Darkness, and Mystra is the Balance between them -- the Power that allows mortals to strive for or against those forces.
So instead of presenting the three goddesses as separate, warring entities, they are working together, but specializing in different aspects of life?
Exactly! That's the angle!
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
I could have both cults.... really stir the pot.
Stirring the pot is always fun. 
Admittedly, I'm not keen on either idea, myself... But that's never stopped me from pondering and tossing out ideas.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 21:32:41
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Understood.
It's a fine line for me. I don't mind throwing so much information at the PC's they can't keep it straight, but I do mind if I throw so much at them I'm feeling overwhelmed.
So... If Shar is the "darker side" of the three fates, how do these cultists view her? The most familiarity I have with the faith of Shar is the Prince of Shade in Paul Kemp's novels, where she was somewhat of a Nihilistic faith.
Would this view keep the same view, or would it shift a little? Instead of viewing her as a goddess bringing about the cycle of night, the end of all things, do they view her as something a little more... neutral?
I keep having this idea that the cultists view themselves as somewhat Neutral. They see the faiths of Selune, Shar, and Mystra as "taking the truth to an unintended extreme." That, in reality, Selune, Shar, and Mystra work together in harmony, despite their differences. Kind of like three hags arguing over how best to do things, and coming to a amicable conclusion that satisfies all three.
If that's the case, how do the cultists explain Shar to someone who is a Selunite?
What's their M.O. when they proselytize? |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 21:54:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
Understood.
It's a fine line for me. I don't mind throwing so much information at the PC's they can't keep it straight, but I do mind if I throw so much at them I'm feeling overwhelmed.
So... If Shar is the "darker side" of the three fates, how do these cultists view her? The most familiarity I have with the faith of Shar is the Prince of Shade in Paul Kemp's novels, where she was somewhat of a Nihilistic faith.
Would this view keep the same view, or would it shift a little? Instead of viewing her as a goddess bringing about the cycle of night, the end of all things, do they view her as something a little more... neutral?
I keep having this idea that the cultists view themselves as somewhat Neutral. They see the faiths of Selune, Shar, and Mystra as "taking the truth to an unintended extreme." That, in reality, Selune, Shar, and Mystra work together in harmony, despite their differences. Kind of like three hags arguing over how best to do things, and coming to a amicable conclusion that satisfies all three.
If that's the case, how do the cultists explain Shar to someone who is a Selunite?
What's their M.O. when they proselytize?
Shar doesn't advertise the nihilism; it's only her favored worshipers that understand that that is her gig. To the common person, she's more about secrets and soothing the pain of loss -- more of an ease from suffering than anything else.
So, in that heresy, Shar could represent loss and the pain of such, while Selūne would represent the eventual emergence from the shadows of pain - a return to light.
Shar just wouldn't mention that not everyone emerges from the pain of loss, or that some actually embrace it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Aug 2015 : 22:01:46
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I like that idea Markus (and I'd go with the scepter, the staff is too much of a 'standard' item for wizards). Anyway, I see no reason why "Hel" (or whatever name you give her) can't be a triune goddess. Let the eyes glow a bright blue or something to denote her presence and/or allow her hair to distinguish her presence with it's coloration.
Delwa, nice play on the three wise men concept.
I know some like having fewer deities in their games but I prefer more (and more and more and more) to make things messy. It's more realistic that way (IMHO) and allows for loads of fun and confusion...depending on the focus of one's campaign. Imagine a party that has a priest(ess) of Selune and "Hel" in it. The role playing between those players could be great.
Its not really 'Hel' - thats just the way i picture her; half black, half white. Although it would be interesting if someone found an image of her and thought it was some 'long lost Illuskan deity of Death'.
I pictured her faithful in the East using a Yin-Yang as her symbol (half black, half white). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2015 : 05:43:33
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Using the yin-yang symbol also works well. If going for a triune goddess, however, consider this image: https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9f/44/70/9f4470fc42c2a28b1f605c35572b7527.jpg
Hmm. I might have to tinker in Photoshop tomorrow with that one. I do like what they did with this year's Candlekeep Presents pin, though. But there could be more than one emblem for the cult(s.) |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2015 : 06:44:36
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| Just be advised that the tri-ying/yang symbol I linked is the BDSM symbol. No, I'm not kidding about that. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2015 : 08:51:16
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*meh*
I'd just use the regular yin-Yang and have the black & white 'bleed' into each other (so instead of a stark border, you'd have a large, fuzzy 'grey area').
Something LIKE THIS. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Aug 2015 08:52:52 |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 19 Aug 2015 : 14:52:51
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Just be advised that the tri-ying/yang symbol I linked is the BDSM symbol. No, I'm not kidding about that.
Now I know to be careful Google image searching for variants at work.
Thanks. (And incorporating Loviatar into the cult could be fun....)
I do want to incorporate something of the three holy symbols. Something that could make it feasible that all three were originally one.
If I did a Ying/Yang design, I could do a purple border around the circle to give a nod to Shar, make the dots in the design reminiscent of Selune's eyes. Have the line between the two give a nod to the red mist that's supposed to be part of Mystra's symbol.
The Triskelion... I'd want to do more research on. Probably make the dot in the design Mystryl's Star, make each of the three parts bear colors of each Goddess.
Does Selune have any alternate Holy Symbols? I've only ever seen the eyes. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 19 Aug 2015 14:53:16 |
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Selune, Mystra, and Shar: Ladies Gone Cultist
