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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 23:44:43
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We wonder sometimes. We've read a few books and various scraps of info in the FR:CS about the noble caste. We know that they have money, are usually given to political scheming, paying various adventuring bands and occasionally having a scandalous adventurer in the family(Gasp! You wish to be an adventurer? Helping the commoners? The shame!). However what we wonder is what is the Culture of the Noble caste is like.
Now don't confuse this with the run of the mill noble, but the truely elitist noble. The type that could border on Arch-villian, untouchable, attending various social settings, attending the strange(to the common man) bardic plays (like opera ). We guess we are merging the two though, Noble and Arch-Villian. But they work so well together. We are curious how others perceive or portray their noble classes (or do they deal mainly with commoners)?
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 03:35:57
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| Playing someone in the noble class or connected to/interacting with the noble class can bring forth a plethora of roleplaying opportunities. Green Ronin's recent Noble Handbook did an excellent job of showing how a DM can bring such elements into a game. Intrigue, intrigue, intrigue is what I'd recommend for anyone wishing to play the game of thrones. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 06:50:25
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You ought to find the old black and white movie The Scarlet Pimpernel. It's the only version that I've been exposed to, but the story itself isn't why I mention this. Rather, the main character (who, for those who do not know, leads a double life) is a wonderful portrayal of a complete, total, brains-of-fluff dandy. I'm not talking Danilo Thann here -- I'm talking someone who would put the American stereotype of a blonde cheerleader to shame. (No offence to any blonde cheerleaders in the audience, of course; if you're reading this, you've actually got brains, and therefore defeat the stereotype.  )
I'd say my favorite point was when the unofficial French ambassador (from the new Republic of France) to the British court first meets him. He exclaims that the man simply doesn't know how to tie a cravat (if you don’t know, it's like this absurd bow-tie), quickly unties it with a quick tug, then attempts to show him how to actually tie one. Yet, he cautions, it's a very difficult thing to do. "It takes all my brains," he adds. A statement which the Frenchman finds all to easy to believe.
This type would be somewhat rare in any society. I'd place him in Watered, with one of the old-money families. Wouldn't know which end of a tool was the business end to save his life, but could tell you everything about clothes.
For a more moderate view -- and closer to Danilo Thann's old persona -- try another black and white classic, The Son of Monte Cristo. Aside from the occasional banging-the-blades fencing, you get to see the heir to the late Count of Monte Cristo act as a banker to a man who looks like he was born in the wrong century. (That is, he looks like pure Nazi material.) Similar to the first, he acts like a complete fop. However, he does allow for some intelligence, and altogether I'd call it a good example of a "typical" nobleman -- that is, so long as that nobleman has pockets deep enough to support such an attitude.
To take a more general look beyond attitude, a nobleman with enough money not to have to worry about work is simply cut off from the world. He'll worry more about things that seem more important to him -- who's wearing what, to where, with whom, and when. Parties are plentiful; they're both a social statement and an opportunity to upstage other nobles.
The nobles won't sully themselves by being overseers; rather, they higher others to take care of such vulgar things. They say "I want this" and don't care about how it happens. It's up to the overseer (often called the seneschal) to figure out how it does, and he takes the blame if it doesn't.
A noble, while not normally working, would still take an interest in physical prowess. Fencing is considered a must; normally, every nobleman will have a rapier, even if he isn't actually good at it. The most jeweled blades are usually the worst, of course, but the best way to tell if a noble is actually serious about his dueling skills is to take a look at "the cut of his cloak." Shakespeare fans take note: what this means is that the cloak is used as a way to foul a strike with a light blade (such as rapier or dagger), and the thicker the cloak the better it works.
Other physical activities include riding, and sometimes trick riding, though almost never involving undignified things like standing on the horse while moving. Hunting is almost a must, but is usually for sport rather than for food.
Those who don't enjoy the above (perhaps preferring to remain in their perfumed, lace-lined clothes) will often still find fascination in watching "barbaric" things, like grappling and boxing. Cockfighting is also a "sport" they would enjoy.
Finally, a typical nobleman will normally avoid complicated books and reading; not usually because of a lack of intelligence, rather because they have low attention spans. Notice that the things described here are things "of the moment," rather than lasting things like book-learning. Gossip and fashion change by at the least every week, while fights and hunting give a thrill of excitement to an otherwise dull life.
Occasionally you'll have a nobleman who's more interested in outside things. This is also as likely as the above to occur in Watered, where the source of income often depends on active trade, and so require at least some familiarity with business. Also, there are those who become interested in personal adventuring, whether because of a wanderlust, a need for a new thrill, or just that boredom has overcome the normal laziness and so the noble decides to "rough" it (with his six valets and dozen bodyguards so he can enjoy a "quaint" campfire within site of the city walls).
And then, of course, there are those who become mindful that they ought to give back to the people of the world, and so work for the benefit of all; these can be either the romantic figure of the king's advisor who works for the people, or simply one who involves himself in quiet charity work.
All in all, the noble is one who normally does not work save by choice, who is indelibly separated from most of the world by a privileged childhood, and often never even attempts to reconcile the gap between social classes. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 07:05:18
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Thanks for the info Bookwyrm AND SiriusBlack
Keep it all coming all you scribes out there. I'mWE're going to try to throw together a character, and need all the info I WE can on the Nobility of Faerun, in general.
Once again great stuff Bookwyrm, thanks, it's really got the ideas flowing. |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 09 Mar 2004 07:16:59 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 07:08:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Cardinal Deimos
Thanks for the info Bookwyrm
Keep it all coming all you scribes out there. I'm going to try to throw together a character, and need all the info I can on the Nobility of Faerun, in general.
Once again great stuff Bookwyrm, thanks, it's really got the ideas flowing.
Huh -- that's odd . . . suddenly he's talking about himself in the first person singular . . . . Strange.
Oh well. You're quite welcome, Cardinal. It was a good question.  |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 07:15:03
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Confound it! We're begining to Slip not one error in that last post but two? Perish the thought.... we shall have to correct that..
We're always we,
but sometimes we're me.
We fear always I,
for then 'We' may Die.
*Bows* |
Edited by - The Cardinal on 09 Mar 2004 07:19:07 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 15:07:30
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Mongoose Publishing gave a version of a noble class in one of their Power Class features. These small books are pamphlet sized and about 16 pages only.
Additionally, if you can get ahold of Green Ronin's Madness in Freeport there's a great scene set at the start of the module where the characters are invited to a ball where important politicians, wealthy merchants, and nobles are all gathered. It's very well written and shows how hours of roleplaying can develop without ever swinging a sword. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 19:30:44
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| Cardinal D, I'd check out the forthcoming Ed and Elaine novel about Waterdeep (lots of nobles there), ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER (two important ones there aside from the usual cast), and Ed's short tale in one of the "Realms of" anthologies that's set in Waterdeep and deals with nobles. |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2004 : 19:48:12
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| In Ed's published fiction set in Waterdeep and Cormyr, nobles are too prominent if anything for my taste -- they're in Silverfall and Cormyr and Death of the Dragon, as well as those La Capuchada names. They're prominent, too, in Geanavue. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 03:02:18
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
Mongoose Publishing gave a version of a noble class in one of their Power Class features. These small books are pamphlet sized and about 16 pages only.
Additionally, if you can get ahold of Green Ronin's Madness in Freeport there's a great scene set at the start of the module where the characters are invited to a ball where important politicians, wealthy merchants, and nobles are all gathered. It's very well written and shows how hours of roleplaying can develop without ever swinging a sword.
Sovereign Stone have modeled the Dragonlance Noble class along much the same lines. I was rather impressed with the way this class was constructured. Although, it does have similar trends to the real-life counterpart of the standard Noble that we are all mostly familiar with through the various forms of media (some of which were mentioned by the Bookwyrm). But it was also structured in such a way that players could effectively role-play such a combat-less class and still form a crucial part of the campaign - whether it be a politician, a wealthly merchant, or the heir of a vast family fortune (all too prevailent in medieval times unfortunately... ) Which the now wealthly land/estate/fortune owner will use to hide his less endearingly qualities to display a more foppish attitude all in an attempt to buy his/her way into 'high-society'.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 03:13:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
[the heir of a vast family fortune (all too prevailent in medieval times unfortunately...)
We do not follow what you are saying here Sage.... May we ask you to reiterate, please ? |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31772 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 03:36:39
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Sorry about that Cardinal...
What I had meant was that, throughout much of the medieval period, inheritance sometime formed a crucial part of a usually vain and foppish man's, or to a very lesser extent (there was only a few examples) woman's attempt to move up into the higher echelons of society.
Similarly, in the case of the early-to-middle period of the Italian Renaissance throughout many of the city-states, this was also seen as a way of climbing the ranks of the local government.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 03:40:08
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Cardinal D, I'd check out the forthcoming Ed and Elaine novel about Waterdeep (lots of nobles there), ELMINSTER'S DAUGHTER (two important ones there aside from the usual cast), and Ed's short tale in one of the "Realms of" anthologies that's set in Waterdeep and deals with nobles.
Now there's a nice teaser. Thanks. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 05:54:54
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Indeed, we cannot wait now for that book... Thanks alot
Ah yes.. the difference between 'new money' and 'old' or 'true money'. Inherritance was always what led to rank... as well as a "brothers war" . No appology needed Sage, we usually get what is meant or said... but sometimes it helps not to jump to total conclusions as it may lead to mistakes... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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DDH_101
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1272 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2004 : 06:26:56
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| If you want to learn more about nobles, the City of Splendor Manuals have a lot about the Waterhavian nobility's life, style, and even the type of business and income. However, it's just focuses on nobles of the North so if you want to know about nobles from Sembia or Cormyr, you should look in other places. |
"Trust in the shadows, for the bright way makes you an easy target." -Mask |
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A day in the life of a Noble
