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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 19:38:49
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I have an adventure seed I'm looking to develop that will probably center around a monastery. Where are some of the best "monk traditions" on the Faerun mainland? I should specify Time of Troubles era F.R. And I should also stress a more martial brand of monkdom, not so much intellectuals/ascetics like a convent of Deneir or the like. I'm looking for a bit of a Kung-Fu flair here, without having to travel out to Kara-Tur.
Ideally it would be some kind of reclusive order, with their monastery nestled away in some (semi)remote wooded area. I'm not sure if I'll find the perfect fit, but I'm hoping one of you learned sages will pull something magnificent out of a hat for me.
Thanks
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 20:09:03
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| Hmm for the really good monk-type monasteries you are probably going to have to go beyond the boundary of Faerun into Kara-Tur. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 21:00:10
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There are monks of the Dark Moon and monks of the Long Death, but neither of those really say "kung fu" to me.
There might be a workable monk sect in Faiths & Avatars, but I think I would invent one that fits the campaign's needs. |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 21:50:06
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| Hmm.... nothing, eh? What about Cadderly's girlfriend Danica? It's been well over a decade since I read the Cleric Quintet, but she had some obvious monk training, yet lived in Faerun, not Kara Tur. Is there some school or organization in Western Faerun that teaches Far East techniques? |
Edited by - VikingLegion on 24 Mar 2015 21:50:56 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 22:12:17
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| I don't remember if the Cleric Quintet ever mentioned where Danica trained. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 23:55:22
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Danica's mother was descended from Kara-Turan stock. She was trained by a single monk. The whole reason she came to the Edificant Library was to read original scrolls penned by the Kara-Turan master whose methods her tutor passed on to her.
The Monastery of the Yellow Rose in the Galena Mountains is probably the most kung fu place you'd find in Faerun. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 00:35:50
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In "Empires of the Shining Sea" there is a listing of the monasteries in Calimshan devoted to Ilmater. One of them relates to a particular saint of the faith and teaches martial arts (referenced as being akin to our real world aikido).
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 11:50:21
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In the 2e Faiths & Avatars book there are two faiths which have some martial art tradition: Liira (with a kicking dance-like fighting style) and Oghma (with a wrestling style - maybe not kung fu, but judo). Both 1e and 3e had kung fu inspired monks, but 2e supressed this, letting this kind of character for Kara-Tur and its own flavor. I do prefer this viewpoint, but this is fantasy, and you can work with both paradigms.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 18:03:53
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Danica's mother was descended from Kara-Turan stock. She was trained by a single monk. The whole reason she came to the Edificant Library was to read original scrolls penned by the Kara-Turan master whose methods her tutor passed on to her.
The Monastery of the Yellow Rose in the Galena Mountains is probably the most kung fu place you'd find in Faerun.
Yep, I did a search on Danica Maupoissant and found this blurb, which corroborates your info:
"Danica was raised (in her early years) in Westgate, the daughter of a wagoneer and his wife of Eastern ancestry. Her parents were killed however by Night Masks assassins, and Danica underwent tutelage in combat arts under a disciple of Penpahg D'Ahn, and eventually found herself at the Edificant Library as well beside Cadderly Bonaduce to complete her training through the texts of the venerated master."
I wish we knew a little more about this mysterious disciple, particularly if he setup a school or something in Westgate, or if he was just tutoring Danica on the side. I also checked into the Yellow Rose Monastery in the Galena Mountains and am cautiously optimistic. I have to dig a bit deeper, but so far they are fitting my needs quite nicely. Remote, out of the way location = check. Rigorous martial discipline = check. |
Edited by - VikingLegion on 25 Mar 2015 18:34:11 |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 18:20:20
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The 5th edition PHB has this blurb about monasteries in FR:
[snip long paragraph about Shou Lung/Kara-Tur]
"Some of these monasteries have spread to the western lands of Faerun, particularly in places with large Shou immigrant communities, such as Thesk and Westgate.
Other monastic traditions are associated with deities who teach the value of physical excellence and mental discipline. In the Forgotten Realms, the order of the Dark Moon is made up of monks dedicated to Shar (goddess of loss), who maintain secret communities in remote hills, back allies, and subterranean hideaways. Monasteries of Ilmater (god of endurance) are named after flowers, and their orders carry the names of great heroes of the faith; the Disciples of Saint Sollars the Twice-Martyred reside in the Monastery of the Yellow Rose near Damara."
So again, another reference to Damara. I think that's going to end up being the winner for my particular needs. I'll take a look at Westgate, Thesk, and Calimshan as well though, just for sake of thoroughness. Thanks all for the excellent responses. I just joined this community 2 days ago and already it's been immensely helpful.
Thesk - in the capital city of Telflamm, where the Golden Way begins (connecting Faerun to the Far East) there is a Shou quarter. Within lies the Xiang Temple, home to an order of monks dedicated to mastering fighting with both weapons and their hands using a martial art known as Xiang Do.
Westgate - also contains a Shou Quarter, but I could find no further information regarding any specific temples or schools of martial arts.
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Edited by - VikingLegion on 25 Mar 2015 18:37:55 |
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 18:40:21
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| You might check Paul Kemp's Twilight War. Theirin were an order of Mask-worshipping monks from Tethlamm. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 18:45:24
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I don't have that particular resource, is there a location listed for the aikido-like school?
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
In "Empires of the Shining Sea" there is a listing of the monasteries in Calimshan devoted to Ilmater. One of them relates to a particular saint of the faith and teaches martial arts (referenced as being akin to our real world aikido).
-- George Krashos
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 18:48:05
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I'll ask you the same question I just asked George Krashos - are there monastery or school locations listed for either of those faiths, particularly sects that favor a more martial approach?
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
In the 2e Faiths & Avatars book there are two faiths which have some martial art tradition: Liira (with a kicking dance-like fighting style) and Oghma (with a wrestling style - maybe not kung fu, but judo). Both 1e and 3e had kung fu inspired monks, but 2e supressed this, letting this kind of character for Kara-Tur and its own flavor. I do prefer this viewpoint, but this is fantasy, and you can work with both paradigms.
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 25 Mar 2015 : 18:57:07
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| There is a monkish character in Stardeep as well. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6669 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 08:39:17
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St Noradnar's Hermitage is located in the Calim Desert. One of the few Ilmatari saints that ever preached an alternative to passive resistance and submission, the former slave driver Noradnar took Ilmater's teachings to heart late in life. He sought to instruct his followers as to how they might honour their god without totally abandoning any defence. The monks of St. Noradnar's learn a peaceful fighting technique that disarms, disables and dismays foes so that they abandon their plans of harm and that uses attackers' own moves against them ("'Tis similar to the aikido of the world of Greenwood." - Elminster)
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 09:33:03
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In my experience, almost any monastic order to get any detail becomes a martial arts–practising one, just on rule-of-cool and the nature of the Monk class.
I fully detailed the Monastery of the Yellow Rose and the Disciples of St. Sollars on the Forgotten Realms Wiki. There's little known about their martial practices, but the Broken Ones are a very good fit. Certainly, several classic martial-artist monks like Kane have come from the Yellow Rose, and the groups are known for demolishing their foes. The Monastery is also based in remote wilderness (though mountains rather than forest).
The Order of St. Dionysus is a perfect match for a drunken kung fu style.
With those two in Damara and the Citadel of Assassins a perfect candidate for an evil monk/ninja/assassin order, Damara & Vaasa are like the Asia of the west.
Oghma's Children of the Passive Voice, with some based at the Leaves of Learning (though based in or near a town) are nice, with the grappling techniques and use of the siangham, called "Oghma's quill". I played one, called it an iron quill, and emphasised stealth skills (silence in the library) and climbing (for high bookshelves).
The Old Order are meant to be the quintessential monks, but there's very little know, about them, so they need to be developed from whole cloth. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 12:22:12
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quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
Westgate - also contains a Shou Quarter, but I could find no further information regarding any specific temples or schools of martial arts.
One of the original heroes of the Nine Golden Swords, the Drunken Master Mu-Mushi, still lived in Westgate in 1487 DR. I couldn't find any info on monasteries though - just a sword dojo. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 16:39:41
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quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Danica's mother was descended from Kara-Turan stock. She was trained by a single monk. The whole reason she came to the Edificant Library was to read original scrolls penned by the Kara-Turan master whose methods her tutor passed on to her.
The Monastery of the Yellow Rose in the Galena Mountains is probably the most kung fu place you'd find in Faerun.
Yep, I did a search on Danica Maupoissant and found this blurb, which corroborates your info:
"Danica was raised (in her early years) in Westgate, the daughter of a wagoneer and his wife of Eastern ancestry. Her parents were killed however by Night Masks assassins, and Danica underwent tutelage in combat arts under a disciple of Penpahg D'Ahn, and eventually found herself at the Edificant Library as well beside Cadderly Bonaduce to complete her training through the texts of the venerated master."
I wish we knew a little more about this mysterious disciple, particularly if he setup a school or something in Westgate, or if he was just tutoring Danica on the side.
Danica's mother's ancestors were from Tabot in the exotic East (Canticle, Chapter 3).
Raised in Westgate, where her father worked as a wagonmaker (Can., C3).
Her father's success, independence, and pride caused him to run afoul of other wagonmakers, so at age 12, Danica moved to another area of Westgate to apprentice with 80-plus-year-old Tabotan Master Turkel Bastan, outwardly a potter, but secretly a disciple of monk Grandmaster Penpahg D'Ahn. Danica wondered if he might also be a distant relative (Can., C3).
Penpahg D'Ahn of Ashanath had died 500 years before [~861 DR] (Can., C6).
At age 13, Night Mask assassins killed her parents, and Turkel replaced her pottery training with monk training (Can., C3).
She poured herself wholeheartedly into her training to mask her pain, and Turkel indulged her. But he preferred for her to forget her past troubles, and not concern herself with revenge, so he provided her little detail on her parents' deaths (Can., C3).
Elements of her training:
-Religion
-Mental discipline
-Physical training
-Harmony of the soul
-Grace
-Forceful bare hands (Can., C3)
-Meditating outside in nature for long periods of time
-Ferocious sparring matches (Can., C17)
-Gigel Nukel (Iron Skull) test (Can., C6)
-Had an einto, or mantra (Can., C12)
-Use of any weapon (The Chaos Curse, C2)
-And evidently the faith allowed for romantic love, marriage, sex, and parenthood, for she hoped to conceive (TCC, Epilogue).
Apprenticed with Turkel for 6 years [until age 18?], then he gave her two marvellous daggers, and sent her to the Edificant Library to continue her training by reading the rare scrolls of the deceased Grandmaster Penpahg himself (Can., C3).
She came to the library more than a year before the present time of 1361 DR (Can., C3&C6) [making her age 19?].
The secrecy of Turkel, the rarity of Penpahg's scrolls, and the fact that those scrolls were archived inside an interfaith library rather than in a stand-alone construction would seem to indicate that the Penpahg faith was a very small cult, rather than a large religion. It likely never utilized any grand monastery halls, but rather was merely passed on from master to apprentice primarily through secretive, private tutoring. Some measure of knowledge and skill came from independent study, as well. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 17:04:49
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
I fully detailed the Monastery of the Yellow Rose and the Disciples of St. Sollars on the Forgotten Realms Wiki. There's little known about their martial practices, but the Broken Ones are a very good fit. Certainly, several classic martial-artist monks like Kane have come from the Yellow Rose, and the groups are known for demolishing their foes. The Monastery is also based in remote wilderness (though mountains rather than forest).
Yes, I've been using that particular wiki page extensively in the last two days, thank you for the excellent write-up. I picture these monks as having a very Muay-Thai like style of fighting. It meshes well with their faith, to physically punish their bodies until they are as hard as iron and almost completely inured against pain. Also it fits well with the bleak, harsh landscape around them, as only those who can deal with such a rough lifestyle will be able to survive.
Another nice resource I found is this: http://rpg.by/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=7248 It seems to be a compilation of whatever the creator could find regarding the Monastery of the Yellow Rose - some canonical, some his own interpretation. I've been using a blend of that article and the excellent wiki to construct my scenario.
Also I really dig the proximity to the Glacier of the White Worm. I've never utilized a remorhaz before, and am eager to do just that. I have a question about the edifice itself: it seems to have been in place long before the Disciples of St. Sollars took up residency there. Who lived in it prior? A totemic cult dedicated to worshipping remorhaz? What happened to them? Did they die out, were forced out, or naturally migrated away?
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Edited by - VikingLegion on 26 Mar 2015 17:12:42 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11855 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 19:17:41
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I won't say "kung Fu" style, but very much physically focused monastery more than say one that's run by Ilmatari or Oghmans. These ideas come to mind:
In Chessenta, wrestling and other martial type arts would be highly praised. As a result, I can see monasteries devoted to Lathander, Tempus, and the Red Knight which teach folk physical combat skills.
In Unther, wrestling is also prized, but by their God-King. Therefore, I can see their monasteries also teaching physical martial arts.
In Thesk, Shou immigrants who prize Mask might have monasteries which teach ninja type teams.
In Thay, the Black Flame Zealots should have militant monks. Also, there will be somewhat hidden clergy of Ilmater teaching people to defend themselves without weapons.
Certain other cities that prize force of arms might also host such monasteries. For instance, I could see Mulmaster based Banites having a monastery, because they can learn to do nonlethal and lethal damage from resources that can be hidden in plain sight without weapons.... thus making people hesitant to fight their tyrant overlords. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11855 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 19:20:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
In the 2e Faiths & Avatars book there are two faiths which have some martial art tradition: Liira (with a kicking dance-like fighting style) and Oghma (with a wrestling style - maybe not kung fu, but judo). Both 1e and 3e had kung fu inspired monks, but 2e supressed this, letting this kind of character for Kara-Tur and its own flavor. I do prefer this viewpoint, but this is fantasy, and you can work with both paradigms.
I just got wood for Lliiran monks now. I really like this flavor. I can see them training as multi-class monk/clerics now. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 22:15:29
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If we go back to the first home Realms campaign all those 40 odd years ago we have Helms Hold founded by Dumal Erard a retired member of the famed Company of Crazed Venturers of Waterdeep - Dumal is listed in FR1 Waterdeep and the North (pg 6) as the 'White Master of Dragons' a 1E level title which is a level 8 Monk (200 001 xp which takes an AGE to get in 1E!), he gained the title by defeating the previous incumbent Iltmul at the Citadel of the Mists (you see in 1E at name level you had to beat the monk the level above you to get your level and claim your new title - ahhh good times)
So we have a fantastic precedent right there for active monasteries in the Western Realms that teach martial arts and so have no need of those pesky Shou interlopers from Kara Tur 
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 22:53:15
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Just a hear, hear, for the lack of need for Shou monks. I've never agreed with the idea that monks had to be "Eastern" or even that they should originate in an oriental society. Holds zero water. We universalize barbarians and therefore we can do the same with monks.
Any religion can have an order of monks, says I. And if you want kung fu monks, that's cool... but that's not the only thing monks can do, and it's not the case that every monk/monastery has to care about combat.
(Edit: I know the OP isn't saying that's all monks can do. I was just ranting. Done now.  ) |
Edited by - xaeyruudh on 26 Mar 2015 22:55:01 |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2015 : 01:26:44
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quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
I picture these monks as having a very Muay-Thai like style of fighting. It meshes well with their faith, to physically punish their bodies until they are as hard as iron and almost completely inured against pain. Also it fits well with the bleak, harsh landscape around them, as only those who can deal with such a rough lifestyle will be able to survive.
Another possibility is animal-based styles, inspired by their time as Watchers in the wild, running with wolves and sharing a den with bears. These monks are as close to druids and rangers as one can get.
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
Another nice resource I found is this: http://rpg.by/index.php?act=Attach&type=post&id=7248 It seems to be a compilation of whatever the creator could find regarding the Monastery of the Yellow Rose - some canonical, some his own interpretation. I've been using a blend of that article and the excellent wiki to construct my scenario.
Yeah, I had to clear that homebrew off the FRW page first. Still, it's a good work-up.
quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
Also I really dig the proximity to the Glacier of the White Worm. I've never utilized a remorhaz before, and am eager to do just that. I have a question about the edifice itself: it seems to have been in place long before the Disciples of St. Sollars took up residency there. Who lived in it prior? A totemic cult dedicated to worshipping remorhaz? What happened to them? Did they die out, were forced out, or naturally migrated away?
That was just my supposition based on the discrepancy in founding dates. I don't have a clue what it could have been, and I haven't found any more about the place. The dates could be mistaken/incorrect, and it was built over a century ago, not over a thousand years ago.
But if so, it would have been on the Great Glacier itself until only some centuries prior. It's unlikely to have been built by anyone from Damara or Vaasa, as they came later. It's situated too far west of the Vast to have been by built by the orcs or dwarves there. I think an outpost of Old Impiltur would be the most mundane origin, guarding against the orcs of Vastar and the Glacier tribes, perhaps. Otherwise, it could have been built by glacial frost giants, or be a stupendously old structure like the Citadel of the Raven.
There is a tribe that fits your bill though. The White Worm tribe of barbarians still live on the Glacier of the White Worm, adopting the remorhaz as their totem beast. They're detailed in The Bloodstone Lands. The monks would have to have some dealings with them, since they share the same land; Kane went as emissary to them on behalf of Gareth Dragonsbane. They're suspected to be related to the Icewind Dale barbarians. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2015 : 04:14:48
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
That was just my supposition based on the discrepancy in founding dates. I don't have a clue what it could have been, and I haven't found any more about the place. The dates could be mistaken/incorrect, and it was built over a century ago, not over a thousand years ago.
But if so, it would have been on the Great Glacier itself until only some centuries prior. It's unlikely to have been built by anyone from Damara or Vaasa, as they came later. It's situated too far west of the Vast to have been by built by the orcs or dwarves there. I think an outpost of Old Impiltur would be the most mundane origin, guarding against the orcs of Vastar and the Glacier tribes, perhaps. Otherwise, it could have been built by glacial frost giants, or be a stupendously old structure like the Citadel of the Raven.
There is a tribe that fits your bill though. The White Worm tribe of barbarians still live on the Glacier of the White Worm, adopting the remorhaz as their totem beast. They're detailed in The Bloodstone Lands. The monks would have to have some dealings with them, since they share the same land; Kane went as emissary to them on behalf of Gareth Dragonsbane. They're suspected to be related to the Icewind Dale barbarians.
I *like* the glacial frost giant flavor, but that would certainly completely change the scale of the place. I haven't seen any actual maps or layouts detailing the height of the halls and common rooms, so I guess this option would still be on the table.
However, I love the totem barbarians much better. When I made that suggestion I was actually thinking of the Elk and Sky Pony tribes of RAS' Icewind Dale books, so for you to come in and bolster that with the White Worm Tribe, and even speculating a possible link to the IWD barbarians - well that's just too good to pass up. I can imagine a very charismatic chieftain of the tribe convincing his people, hundreds of years ago, to break apart from their heavily nomadic ways and built this citadel as a (semi)permanent settlement, adding in a bit more gathering/foraging to their lifestyle, and less chasing herds of prey across the glacier. Then, upon his death, a fiery young upstart proclaims the old chief was "soft", and his ways have corrupted the spirit of the tribe. The new chief leads his people into an exodus back to their traditional lifestyle roaming the glacier and hunting for food. This is why the Citadel of the White Worm is abandoned and waiting for the Disciples of St. Sollars to move in and repurpose the place for themselves, adding on to it and continuing to excavate deeper into the mountain.
So, I hate to keep pestering you for info (maybe I should just get my hands on a copy of this Bloodstone Lands sourcebook!), but has there been any documented friction between the monks and the White Worm Tribe? I'm assuming there is some kind of tentative peace between the barbarians, the monks, and whatever roaming rangers make the area their territory. But perhaps a splinter group of barbarians decide to stir up some trouble and evict the monks from what they consider an ancestral homeland? |
Edited by - VikingLegion on 27 Mar 2015 04:16:52 |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2015 : 07:04:44
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Well, the monastery seems much larger and more imposing than one would expect of Ilmatari monks.
The IWD speculation's right there in the sourcebook – written by RA Salvatore, even. The White Worm tribe worship Tempus, and have the same physical appearance as the IWD tribes. They don't know their own history before they came to the area however. There's some interesting lore about shamans taking on remorhaz powers and a wandering champion called a "spirit-hunter".
The sourcebook's only $5 on DriveThruRPG and its clones.
Everything I could find from the first three editions about the Monastery is on the wiki. (I didn't cover the glacier and the tribe, however, since I was mainly interested in Ilmater.) I haven't read the novels The Rite and The Rage of the King where the Monastery appears, however.
There's been no documented conflict, but it could well have occurred. The White Worm fought for Zhengyi the Witch-King, which surely put them opposite the Disciples. The White Worm eventually abandoned the fight however, apparently finding his evil nature too much for their honour.
Both monks and barbarians honour the remorhaz, and subdue them in their own way, the former by harnessing and riding them, the latter by killing them in battle, both as marks of prestige and courage. Kane really impressed the White Worm with a show of remorhaz-riding. It could be a barbarian attacked a remorhaz and discovers, whoops, it's got a monk riding it.
Ah, crap, one problem – the White Worm tribe dwell on the Great Glacier, which is the bigger glacier to the north, not the Glacier of the White Worm where the monks are. They aren't actually likely to meet. Sorry, my mistake (though an admittedly easy one). Still, no reason they can't have an offshoot or migrate between them. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
Edited by - BadCatMan on 27 Mar 2015 07:07:15 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 27 Mar 2015 : 13:28:57
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quote:
Originally posted by VikingLegion
I'll ask you the same question I just asked George Krashos - are there monastery or school locations listed for either of those faiths, particularly sects that favor a more martial approach?
Since these are the specialty priests of their faiths, I think wherever the church is more present, you will find monasteries or temples with martial tradition. Liira's entry mentions Selgaunt, and Oghma's entry cites - among others places - Waterdeep, Sembia and... Candlekeep!  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2015 : 14:32:54
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Ah, crap, one problem – the White Worm tribe dwell on the Great Glacier, which is the bigger glacier to the north, not the Glacier of the White Worm where the monks are. They aren't actually likely to meet. Sorry, my mistake (though an admittedly easy one). Still, no reason they can't have an offshoot or migrate between them.
Ah.. good self-catch. I wouldn't have noticed the difference had you not pointed it out. I checked out the wiki for the Glacier of the White Worm and found it rather sparse, so I feel there's plenty of room for me to customize without contradicting existing canon - that's not to say I won't create my own alterations, but I do make a concerted effort to utilize what's already established whenever possible.
That said, I think it's entirely reasonable to assume the Great Glacier barbarians (specifically the remorhaz-worhipping tribe) may have splintered long ago and now live in both locales. If all of Vaasa and Damara were once under ice that has now retreated, I can easily see the tribe getting split up. Was the entire area one massive ice-pack that has slowly retreated northwards (in what is still the Great Glacier) and the GotWW is simply a remnant that never melted due to its heightened elevation? If that's true the tribe could've encompassed the entire area originally, with elements staying put in the southern portion, and other tribesman continually migrating north. The two tribes could be functionally the same - in their beliefs, rituals, etc - but after several generations be wholly unaware of the other half and their shared ancestry. If that's palatable (and I certainly feel it is), I can simply use any info I find on the Great Glacier worm-tribe and just port that on over with a few minor modifications to account for the splintered culture.
Well, it looks like I've thoroughly derailed my own thread. What was a discussion on monasteries in Faerun is now focusing very firmly on the Monastery of the Yellow Rose and the surrounding area. I guess I never expected to find a locale that fits my scenario so wonderfully. Thanks to all who have contributed, I'll read up on the other suggestions out of curiosity, but this current region is working brilliantly. |
Edited by - VikingLegion on 30 Mar 2015 14:35:50 |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 30 Mar 2015 : 19:25:29
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I agree that it's reasonable to put the barbarians in both locations. It's likely that the tribe and the Glacier of the White Worm both took their names from the remorhaz, and remorhaz are found on both glaciers, but there's nothing saying that the tribe (or part of it) didn't move from one place to the other.
The map on page 45 of the Grand History shows, circa -626 DR, that ice covered all of Vaasa and Damara, stretching as far south as the Earthspur Mountains. Going by that map, the Glacier of the White Worm is what's left of the southernmost extent of that crazy growth of ice.
That said, if you want to give the White Worm tribe an origin before 1000 DR (when the ice cap receded) then you have a case for them having simply followed the edge of the glacier northward along the ridges of the Galenas and then across Vaasa.
Regarding their canon home circa 1360 DR... I don't want to be a nitpicker, or argue with BadCatMan, but the White Worm tribe should be found at the base of the Great Glacier rather than on it. You can obviously put them up on top of the glacier if you want to; that would be more consistent with them "riding" the edge of the glacier northward.
FR9 (Bloodstone Lands) states this on page 59:
quote:
The land bordering the length of the Great Glacier is the territory of White Worm, covering the northernmost reaches of Vaasa... They rarely stray more than fifty miles from the Great Glacier, and most often travel among the winding turns of the glacier tunnel maze known as the Ice Run.
FR14 (Great Glacier) is kinda ambiguous, saying that they live on the edge of the glacier, but it's in a section on Vaasa on page 8... not within the material that's focused on the glacier itself:
quote:
A group of barbarians called the White Worm Tribe lives on the edge of the Great Glacier...
I don't think FR14 acknowledges any interactions between the barbarians and the tribes of the glacier. Also, I don't see clambering up on the glacier being valuable to them, or consistent with their belief that the Ice Run is holy ground. Surely food is more readily available (and safer to chase) on the ground than it is on top of the ice.
Thus, I interpret "on the edge" of the Glacier to be synonymous with "among the winding turns" at the base of the glacier.
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Edited by - xaeyruudh on 30 Mar 2015 19:27:01 |
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BadCatMan
Senior Scribe
Australia
401 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2015 : 04:38:45
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Aha! It wasn't a mix-up after all, or at least not mine. The 2nd-edition campaign setting makes the connection, putting the "Tribe of the White Worm" living in the area of the Glacier of the White Worm. So they are indeed canonically there.
I found a bunch of old notes on the Glacier of the White Worm, and after this discussion, I think I'll write up the wiki article after all. :) Stay tuned. (No promises on when, mind.)
It's true it was once a part of the Great Glacier, that's confirmed in the 2e lore.
The 1st-edition campaign setting also puts Barroch's Hold, the "fabled citadel of the first great bandit lord of the Inner Sea" on the Glacier of the White Worm as well, so it could be a candidate for the Citadel of the White Worm. |
BadCatMan, B.Sc. (Hons), M.Sc.
Scientific technical editor
Head DM of the Realms of Adventure play-by-post community
Administrator of the Forgotten Realms Wiki |
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 31 Mar 2015 : 18:35:00
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quote:
Originally posted by BadCatMan
Aha! It wasn't a mix-up after all, or at least not mine. The 2nd-edition campaign setting makes the connection, putting the "Tribe of the White Worm" living in the area of the Glacier of the White Worm. So they are indeed canonically there.
I found a bunch of old notes on the Glacier of the White Worm, and after this discussion, I think I'll write up the wiki article after all. :) Stay tuned. (No promises on when, mind.)
It's true it was once a part of the Great Glacier, that's confirmed in the 2e lore.
Ahhh, excellent. That's the direction I was moving in anyway, but it's good to hear it confirmed. It makes sense that the Tribe of the White Worm hangs out on the Glacier of the White Worm. I mean.. for goodness sake, their names share 80% overlap! I was looking into purchasing the Great Glacier sourcebook to flesh out this tribe, but it seems to primarily focus on the Ulutiun people (Inuit based humans)and the Inugaakalikurit (arctic dwarves), whereas the barbarians we've been discussing (both in IWD and the remorhaz-worshippers) are, I believe, of Uthgardt stock?
Interestingly enough, the wiki on the Uthgardt tribes mentions 13 original beast spirits, which became the 13 tribes - two of which have disappeared or dissolved (Red Pony and Golden Eagle). The White Worm is *not* among the remaining 11. There is an entry for "Great Worm", but no further information is linked to it, other than to say; "In 1372 DR, the Great Worm ancestral mound was the Great Worm Cavern." I don't know where that is located, but I'm guessing this is a dragon-based tribe, not a remorhaz one. I could be (and often am) wrong, but maybe the Worm Tribe barbarians are not of the same stock as the IWD guys, they just happen to share a lot in common as far as their dedication to a specific totem animal. |
Edited by - VikingLegion on 31 Mar 2015 19:15:55 |
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Monasteries in Faerun
