| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Faediira
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 16:50:54
|
|
would eberron airships be usuable in faerun? I know there's a binding process with the elemental and such...if anyone could help me out it would be appreciated.
|
May the light of Eilistraee burn bright in the face of evil...bastard swords high. |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 17:59:15
|
I don't see any reason why a similar process would not be possible, though obviously it would have to be disconnected from dragonmarks -- unless you're planning on adapting them or porting them over, as well.
I don't have anything against the airships of Eber-whatsit, but I don't know that I'd do a direct port of them. We've already got Halruaa's skyships, and before it was shuffled off into the corner, we had Spelljammer, as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 24 Mar 2015 17:59:53 |
 |
|
|
Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 18:11:19
|
The problem here is that FR casters CAN do magic outside of Toril, despite not having The Weave... which shouldn't be possible. Ergo, I would say an Eberron Airship would fall into that same loophole - that stuff that works on one world would still work on another, it would just be 'empowered' by the local equivalent (which is how both RL and SJ rules worked in regards to priestly - and arcane to some extent - magic).
In other words, 'gods of magic' (and other powers) have some sort of under-the-table deal going on in which they take-over certain things when people from other worlds are around, and make sure stuff still works. Its a shoddy explanation, but the best one we have considering the multiversal nature of D&D.
So IMG, it would work. I might make weird stuff happen (the engines 'sounding funny', etc), but it would work. In YOUR game, you do whatever you feel helps tell the story best.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
|
Edited by - Markustay on 24 Mar 2015 18:11:39 |
|
|
|
Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2015 : 18:46:08
|
| The good thing about magical settings is that nearly anything is possible. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
|
|
|
Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 15:41:59
|
| Eberron airships are powered by elementals. So long as your have an elementalist, I'd imagine you're in good shape. SF tech adapted to incorporate magical elements is always fun. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
|
|
|
Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 26 Mar 2015 : 15:51:46
|
| The flying ships in the Four Lands use some kind of magical/solar power combination. |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
|
|
|
Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2015 : 12:50:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't see any reason why a similar process would not be possible, though obviously it would have to be disconnected from dragonmarks -- unless you're planning on adapting them or porting them over, as well.
I don't have anything against the airships of Eber-whatsit, but I don't know that I'd do a direct port of them. We've already got Halruaa's skyships, and before it was shuffled off into the corner, we had Spelljammer, as well.
God I miss spelljammers lol.
That story was epic. Sigil, spelljammer, A forgotten realms newish deity + Priest with a Dragonlance Kender.
I kind of miss the slight crossovers they did.
I always considered a campaign in which the main antagonist was a Dark Sun Defiler Wizard and some people trying to stop him (Maybe a preserver) who somehow got out of Athas and through the grey into the realms where gods actually exist. But somehow retain his defiler abilities on Toril, confusing everyone.
Dark Sun was probably the most morbid, hopeless setting you could ask for in DnD. Throwing characters used to a hopeless dying world into a lush living world always appealed to me. I even considered having the preserver wizard go bad eventually, thinking this new plane could afford him to use defiler magic to power himself to victory. |
|
|
|
SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2015 : 14:04:08
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faediira
would eberron airships be usuable in faerun? I know there's a binding process with the elemental and such...if anyone could help me out it would be appreciated.
How do you want to use them? Directly plopping a finite number of them in the Realms? Is it your desire for these things to have suddenly appeared (gated in from Eberron or someplace similar) or were you thinking that they were endemic or rising through organic inspiration within the Realms for your game? It might help to compare the differences between the Eberron Airship and the Halruaan Skyship. Keep in mind that one of the materials necessary for Sjyship production is lumber called "Soarwood," which is both very expensive and unique to the Eberron setting. If this were to be transplanted into the Realms I imagine it would be a much contested resource. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
|
|
|
Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2015 : 14:55:03
|
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't see any reason why a similar process would not be possible, though obviously it would have to be disconnected from dragonmarks -- unless you're planning on adapting them or porting them over, as well.
I don't have anything against the airships of Eber-whatsit, but I don't know that I'd do a direct port of them. We've already got Halruaa's skyships, and before it was shuffled off into the corner, we had Spelljammer, as well.
God I miss spelljammers lol.
That story was epic. Sigil, spelljammer, A forgotten realms newish deity + Priest with a Dragonlance Kender.
I kind of miss the slight crossovers they did.
I always considered a campaign in which the main antagonist was a Dark Sun Defiler Wizard and some people trying to stop him (Maybe a preserver) who somehow got out of Athas and through the grey into the realms where gods actually exist. But somehow retain his defiler abilities on Toril, confusing everyone.
Dark Sun was probably the most morbid, hopeless setting you could ask for in DnD. Throwing characters used to a hopeless dying world into a lush living world always appealed to me. I even considered having the preserver wizard go bad eventually, thinking this new plane could afford him to use defiler magic to power himself to victory.
I sure miss Dark Sun! |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
|
|
|
Entromancer
Senior Scribe
USA
388 Posts |
Posted - 07 Apr 2015 : 17:18:04
|
| I dunno Firestorm. I see those sort of settings as one that challenge characters to build meaning in life, rather than running after something that's already there and likely taken for granted. A sort of "grit your teeth and go at your problems with a blade in each fist," sort of thing. |
"...the will is everything. The will to act."--Ra's Al Ghul
"Suffering builds character."--Talia Al Ghul |
|
|
|
Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 00:49:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Entromancer
I dunno Firestorm. I see those sort of settings as one that challenge characters to build meaning in life, rather than running after something that's already there and likely taken for granted. A sort of "grit your teeth and go at your problems with a blade in each fist," sort of thing.
In those types of settings, meaning in life becomes survival lol.
Honor and deeper meaning generally do not exist very much, and even if they do, they usually get cannibalized by people who do not give an efff very quickly. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11827 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 01:06:57
|
| I never quite understood Athas. Noone has any food and are malnourished. Yet, they're rippling with muscles???????? They also tended to have better scores in other things as well, whereas a typical malnourished person suffers in intelligence, etc..... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 01:13:03
|
To me, Ravenloft was the most hopeless setting. I can see that argument for Dark Sun, but at least in that setting, a comfortable existence without living in fear of darkness was possible. Life sucked for a lot of people on Athas, but at least they didn't have to worry about becoming the things that terrified themselves, their friends, and their neighbors. Life is hard on Athas, but you've got a better chance of death by natural causes and no fears about the land itself actively turning against you.
In Ravenloft, the best you could hope for was a peaceful death. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 02:03:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
To me, Ravenloft was the most hopeless setting. I can see that argument for Dark Sun, but at least in that setting, a comfortable existence without living in fear of darkness was possible. Life sucked for a lot of people on Athas, but at least they didn't have to worry about becoming the things that terrified themselves, their friends, and their neighbors. Life is hard on Athas, but you've got a better chance of death by natural causes and no fears about the land itself actively turning against you.
In Ravenloft, the best you could hope for was a peaceful death.
I dunno. Ravenloft sucked, but a lot of people think Athas is worse lol. I remember threads involving "Why don't people of Athas try to get to less crappy planes via Ravenloft" even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done) |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 15:57:12
|
quote:
Originally posted by Faediira
would eberron airships be usuable in faerun? I know there's a binding process with the elemental and such...
Netherese had skimmers - boats propelled by air elementals.
And of course were more than familiar with the concept of flying structures.
Which is unlikely to bode well for interlopers who would openly use suspiciously similar methods, of course.
[20] Volo: As I was saying, wizards tend to be a mite suspicious of the world around - and not always without reason.
Also, Mystara had airships long before Eberron.
Of course, one of them is a gnomish dirigible with elemental-powered steam engines... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 16:09:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
By whom? |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
Try Audible and Get 2 Free Audio Books! https://amzn.to/2IgBede |
Edited by - Artemas Entreri on 08 Apr 2015 16:10:17 |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 08 Apr 2015 : 21:02:57
|
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
By whom?
Lord Soth, for one, though it's kind of a hazy area in canon. TSR dropped him into Ravenloft, and Weis and Hickman did not care for that and planned to ignore it, so it was decided that the Dark Powers couldn't punish Soth and kicked him out. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 01:42:55
|
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
By whom?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Lord Soth, for one, though it's kind of a hazy area in canon. TSR dropped him into Ravenloft, and Weis and Hickman did not care for that and planned to ignore it, so it was decided that the Dark Powers couldn't punish Soth and kicked him out.
Also, the 3rd Ed version of Ravenloft provided Loremasters with a list of setting specific Secrets including one that allowed the character to exit the Realms of Dread.
Anyways, we're pretty far afield of the OP's topic of Airships. I do have a question regarding them. Who would dare use one post-Spellplague? I mean, one Hindenburg disaster and the rising dominance of Zeppelins was ended IRL. Magic suddenly going wonky or failing altogether in the FR has happened multiple times with at least one of those times being infamous with people plummeting from the skies to their deaths. Apparently nothing of the sort was said during the Time of Troubles but the Spellplague seems to have been different without really going into detail. Given the fickle and demonstratively dangerous nature of Magic in the FR who would still be using these things?
EDIT: fixed some improper tags |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
Edited by - SaMoCon on 09 Apr 2015 01:44:25 |
|
|
|
Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 01:54:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
... even though getting out of Ravenloft is extremely hard(but has been done)
quote:
Originally posted by Artemas Entreri
By whom?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Lord Soth, for one, though it's kind of a hazy area in canon. TSR dropped him into Ravenloft, and Weis and Hickman did not care for that and planned to ignore it, so it was decided that the Dark Powers couldn't punish Soth and kicked him out.
Also, the 3rd Ed version of Ravenloft provided Loremasters with a list of setting specific Secrets including one that allowed the character to exit the Realms of Dread.
Anyways, we're pretty far afield of the OP's topic of Airships. I do have a question regarding them. Who would dare use one post-Spellplague? I mean, one Hindenburg disaster and the rising dominance of Zeppelins was ended IRL. Magic suddenly going wonky or failing altogether in the FR has happened multiple times with at least one of those times being infamous with people plummeting from the skies to their deaths. Apparently nothing of the sort was said during the Time of Troubles but the Spellplague seems to have been different without really going into detail. Given the fickle and demonstratively dangerous nature of Magic in the FR who would still be using these things?
EDIT: fixed some improper tags
Well, thousands of years in between these ridiculous realm shattering disasters may not discourage the average Gondsman. Hindenburg disaster did discourage some airtravel, but We see jets all over the world today despite lots of heavily publicized crashes.
Apollo 1 did not stop them from trying again. heck, I remember space Shuttle challenger on live TV like yesterday. but we kept on going. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 04:53:39
|
Indeed. The Hindenberg may have certainly influenced the turn away from zeppelins, but it wasn't the only reason that this shift happened. There was also the issue of procuring enough helium, and the fact that heavier-than-air aircraft could make the same trips, far more quickly.
In the Realms, if you want to get a ship in the air, your only option is magic. You either do it with magic or you don't do it. And as our own attempts to get airborne show, some people are more than willing to risk their lives for the possibility of flying. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 05:03:03
|
Back on the topic of magical airships... In the Vision of Escaflowne anime series, they had flying ships. They never really discussed the mechanics of it, but these rocks that apparently floated naturally were integral to it.
The Last Exile anime series doesn't use magical flying ships. Instead, they had "vanships" that were only vaguely aerodynamic, but still flew like airplanes, because of the use of a liquid called "Claudia." Again, mechanics aren't really discussed in the series.
So there's a couple of potential angles, right there. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 09 Apr 2015 05:03:57 |
|
|
|
SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 09 Apr 2015 : 08:13:10
|
Well, anime is notorious for rocks that float to represent forewarning of "ridiculously powerful weapon about to fire/impact" so much so that it has been referred as a motif by many of its English-speaking fans. Floating rocks with cities built onto them have been a staple since at least Starblazers from the 70s if not earlier. Eden's Bowy has warring cities flying above a ground-bound population unaware of the conflict in the sky and believing the aerial civilizations to be paradise. The .hack/ series all takes place in a fantasy rpg computer game, which has been synonymous with floating lands since the Final Fantasy franchise first started. Soul Hunter has a realm of the gods hovering over the Earth and looking down on the efforts of mortal creatures until a few come up to put an end to the gods' meddling. Even the two examples you named, Last Exile & Escaflowne (TV & Movie), I am aware of and have in my library. The descriptions for how any of it works... it's "protoculture," right? Anyhow...
What I am getting at is not that people would give up the pursuit of flight, but the pursuit of magical flight. Just like dirigibles having been shoved completely aside for fixed wing and rotary wing aircraft, what would be the alternative in the realms? Beholders have an extraordinary natural buoyancy that persists even after death (or, so their undead mobility would lead me to believe). It may be dangerous but harvesting beholder bodies should provide a source of lift that would not be outside the realm of possibility in the FR and without having to alter the setting and having slight to no impact on the economics/socio-politics. But this can't be the only such idea. Your thoughts? |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
|
|
|
Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 21:56:29
|
I liked the idea of Airships more than the trains that Eberon had. The trains were a little too much magi-tech for me. Even the elemental powered carriages were a bit much, although I guess I can accept the rare elemental powered Sailing ships. I've also always loved the concept of Spelljammer so THAT kind of flying ship is always flying about out there for me.
In my own campaign world I've been dreaming up for years, I have a magic-heavy hidden city that conducts trade with the rest of the world with elemental powered flying ships. While I started with bound elementals like Eberon, I had the idea of the occasional, exceptional ship where a powerful elemental willingly agrees to bond with the ship. This allows the elemental to interact with the crew and even control much of its movement. This requires an Elementalist, which in my world is a kind of sorcerer who deals only with one chosen element, who generally acts as the Elemental's "keeper" seeing to its needs and acting as a liaison with the crew. This type of bond makes the ship faster, more maneuverable, and more powerful than the normal variety.
One of the more interesting ships I envisioned was the flag ship of this cities fleet. It is a massive hull hanging from two Blimp-like cylinders which each hold an extremely powerful elemental, one of air and one of fire. The two had been in conflict for ages before they were bound into the ship, and now they unleash an enormous amount of power which runs the massive vessel. Large cannon-like projectors can unleash massive fire bursts, and lightning rod looking devices unleash powerful electrical attacks. Added to the power of the wizards usually on board this thing, it’s a terror of the skies.
|
|
|
|
Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2015 : 22:10:04
|
The Mystara boxed set detailing the Empires of Alphatia and Thyatis goes into rather exhaustive detail on how to construct flying ships.
Not only that...but some insanely powerful ships could be constructed as well. For any setting I've seen, only this boxed set showed just how powerful flying ships were.
If Alphatia is focused, the world was screwed...but it was rarely focused (and then only very briefly). |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
|
|
|
Korginard
Learned Scribe
USA
126 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 22:21:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
The Mystara boxed set detailing the Empires of Alphatia and Thyatis goes into rather exhaustive detail on how to construct flying ships.
Not only that...but some insanely powerful ships could be constructed as well. For any setting I've seen, only this boxed set showed just how powerful flying ships were.
If Alphatia is focused, the world was screwed...but it was rarely focused (and then only very briefly).
I think the unfocused part is pretty common with this type of "technology"
In Eberorn the ships were controled by a Dragonmarked Family, which pretty much exist outside any one nation's control.
Halruaa didn't have any real ambitions of conquest so thier air fleet wasn't much danger to other nations. The same applied to the illusionists who fled religious persecution there to form Nimbral. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2015 : 22:58:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by Korginard
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
The Mystara boxed set detailing the Empires of Alphatia and Thyatis goes into rather exhaustive detail on how to construct flying ships.
Not only that...but some insanely powerful ships could be constructed as well. For any setting I've seen, only this boxed set showed just how powerful flying ships were.
If Alphatia is focused, the world was screwed...but it was rarely focused (and then only very briefly).
I think the unfocused part is pretty common with this type of "technology"
In Eberorn the ships were controled by a Dragonmarked Family, which pretty much exist outside any one nation's control.
Halruaa didn't have any real ambitions of conquest so thier air fleet wasn't much danger to other nations. The same applied to the illusionists who fled religious persecution there to form Nimbral.
Halruaan skyships weren't the best platforms for war, anyway. They're slow and not overly maneuverable. Certainly, they could be used in warfare... But given a choice between an Eber-whatsit skyship and a Halruaan one, and not factoring in crews, I'd take a Eber-whatsit skyship over a Halruaan one any day.
Of course, I'd take a spelljamming ship over either. Particularly a Triop, a Vipership, a Hammership, or an Ogre Mammoth. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 01:18:47
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd take a Eber-whatsit skyship over a Halruaan one any day.
Of course, I'd take a spelljamming ship over either. Particularly a Triop, a Vipership, a Hammership, or an Ogre Mammoth.
For action in atmosphere SJ is a bad idea - q.v. Monarch Mordent. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2015 : 04:44:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd take a Eber-whatsit skyship over a Halruaan one any day.
Of course, I'd take a spelljamming ship over either. Particularly a Triop, a Vipership, a Hammership, or an Ogre Mammoth.
For action in atmosphere SJ is a bad idea - q.v. Monarch Mordent.
One example does not prove a trend.
Besides, between the three ship types, a spelljammer would have had the best chance at avoiding that situation. Spelljammers are generally more robust than that, and had the helmsman not been killed by the initial attack, the Monarch would have been able to escape far more readily than either of the other ship types. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 02:57:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One example does not prove a trend.
Besides, between the three ship types, a spelljammer would have had the best chance at avoiding that situation. Spelljammers are generally more robust than that, and had the helmsman not been killed by the initial attack
It doesn't prove a trend, it illustrates a problem inherent in the system. Pretty much any SHP-rated hit is a possible critical hit, and thus carries some risk of spelljammer shock. Fight on, and sooner or later that's bound to happen.
The most likely outcome in low atmosphere is "lost with all hands". Higher, there's some time to recover the helm, so it's "only" lost crew (except fully closed hulls) and perhaps some damage, but unless they fight other 'jammers or a cloud-castle, action is likely to happen fairly low. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36803 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 05:53:07
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
One example does not prove a trend.
Besides, between the three ship types, a spelljammer would have had the best chance at avoiding that situation. Spelljammers are generally more robust than that, and had the helmsman not been killed by the initial attack
It doesn't prove a trend, it illustrates a problem inherent in the system. Pretty much any SHP-rated hit is a possible critical hit, and thus carries some risk of spelljammer shock. Fight on, and sooner or later that's bound to happen.
The most likely outcome in low atmosphere is "lost with all hands". Higher, there's some time to recover the helm, so it's "only" lost crew (except fully closed hulls) and perhaps some damage, but unless they fight other 'jammers or a cloud-castle, action is likely to happen fairly low.
The flipside, though, is that most spelljammers are faster, more maneuverable, capable of hitting a much higher altitude, and actually built with combat in mind, as opposed to Eber-whatsit's airships or the lumbering beasts that are Halruaan airships.
And being attacked by a demon with a magical axe is not a common occurrence for spelljamming ships. The fact that it happened once and was fatal was a fluke. Saying it wasn't is like saying that since one professional golfer got a hole in one on a par 4, then everyone else should, even if they've never even handled a golf club before.
Combat is not an infrequent occurrence for spelljammers, and the sheer volume of ships above the skies shows that they are pretty robust. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2427 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2015 : 16:10:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
The flipside, though, is that most spelljammers are faster, more maneuverable, capable of hitting a much higher altitude
In other words, better performance outside of combat. Well, yes.
quote:
and actually built with combat in mind, as opposed to Eber-whatsit's airships or the lumbering beasts that are Halruaan airships.
Eberwhatsit ships are indeed passenger haulers, not warships. And with air speed slightly above SR 1, avoiding the competition with magic trains. But compared with SJ in their class, not terrible. Golden Dragon, for example, was a converted warship - it's bigger (~ 200' keel 60' beam) and has two of those circus hoop engines.
So now we know that one hoop engine is not the limit, but don't know whether it's possible to make it faster by packing half a dozen, and what are requirements to the hull, if any, beyond pair of beams per circus hoop - or even whether converting seaships is as easy as installing enough of hoop beams, adding control device(s) for them on the bridge, and converting wheel-and-rudder mechanism to handle vanes/fins (or better adding more wheels for more fins).
Halruaan ships seems to be used mostly as platforms for wizards and troop transport, yes. This doesn't mean they cannot pack conventional siege weapons, just that normally they don't have targets that can't be engaged at spell range or via "ballast dump" bombing.
Airships built for fighting from Mystara are very different, yes.
quote:
And being attacked by a demon with a magical axe is not a common occurrence for spelljamming ships.
The common occurence is being hit with a siege weapon, and see above - any weapon that inflicts structural damage has critical hit chance of at least 1/20 per shot (more per hit). SJ shock is ostensibly 1/20 of those, but there are "next entry" rules and secondary critical hits (such as loss of 5/10 SHP drags damage over 25%), so it may be more.
So if it's in range for a light catapult or medium ballista, there's a chance to go down with any single hit.
And to hit anything, it got to enter that range - dump bombing is only worth anything against huge stationary targets in good weather.
Collision with debris inflict a critical hit automatically.
Plus unspecified cases, that apparently may include "a fiend with huge-axx woodchopper". Which isn't a common occurence because SJ ships rarely get to fight powerful summoners - Wildspace isn't summoner-friendly environment. Fighting magical vehicles in atmosphere involves much greater chances for this sort of a trouble, however. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Eberron Airships
