| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Jan 2015 : 23:54:48
|
|
Is the line up of gods in the Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms book, the one's we might possibly see in 5th edition?
|
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
|
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 00:39:29
|
My understanding is that everyone is back for 5E.
Now whether they hold the same rank of Greater Power, Intermediate, Lesser or Demipower is a different story. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some changes there.
If Bhaal and Myrkul are back, and with Cyric, how do portfolios get distributed? I'm not a huge fan of Cyric myself (unless I'm killing his priests), but for some reason and I'm not even sure why, but I don't like Tharizdun. If he isn't going to be a Realms power, I'd bet Cyric could easily hold his portfolio of Insanity and be a lesser power.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out. |
Edited by - Eilserus on 18 Jan 2015 00:44:58 |
 |
|
|
Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3813 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 01:03:42
|
Yes, ''everyone is back'' is also what I got from all their talk.
If you look at 5e PHB list of FR sample deities (which are all active in the ''present'', since they are all selectable for the Organized Play campaigns, which are canon and set in the ''present''), it basically includes every faerunian human deity, even those who persihed during the ToT, and that is supposed to be an incomplete list according to Mearls (in fact gods like Sharess or Lurue are missing).
The racial pantheons aren't listed there (only their head deities --and Yondalla is no longer Chauntea--), but it is very likely that they are back as well. After all, it wouldn't make sense to restore everyone and then randomly leave them out... |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
|
|
|
Austin the Archmage
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 01:05:21
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
My understanding is that everyone is back for 5E.
Now whether they hold the same rank of Greater Power, Intermediate, Lesser or Demipower is a different story. I wouldn't be surprised if there were some changes there.
If Bhaal and Myrkul are back, and with Cyric, how do portfolios get distributed? I'm not a huge fan of Cyric myself (unless I'm killing his priests), but for some reason and I'm not even sure why, but I don't like Tharizdun. If he isn't going to be a Realms power, I'd bet Cyric could easily hold his portfolio of Insanity and be a lesser power.
It'll be interesting to see how it plays out.
Cyric's pretty stupid, right? If so, insanity might be up his alley. His plans don't go awry because he's a screw up, it happens because he's insane. |
|
|
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 02:46:29
|
| He still thinks like a mortal so he messes stuff up that more experienced gods wouldn't. And I think he's insane. So kind of both. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 03:46:44
|
| Cyric isn't stupid, he's extremely petty and paranoid. He has brains, but he filters everything thru the lens of everyone looking down on him (despite how "superior" he is) and being out to get him, and acts accordingly. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 03:53:50
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cyric isn't stupid, he's extremely petty and paranoid. He has brains, but he filters everything thru the lens of everyone looking down on him (despite how "superior" he is) and being out to get him, and acts accordingly.
Stupidity comes in many forms, though. If you take the definition for stupid of "not having good sense" (aka reason), then letting emotions override your better judgment is stupid.
At the root of paranoia is fear and hatred. Cyric has both in abundance, and they're his main driving motivations. If he technically has good sense but allows his good sense to be controlled and overrun constantly by negative emotions, well, some might define that as stupid.
Cyric might be fairly smart (debatable IMO), but frankly he can be duped by gods/situations that promise revenge or cutting down his enemies. He's quite often stupid.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 18 Jan 2015 03:59:33 |
|
|
|
Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 04:00:11
|
Well he's a god, so he can't be stupid in the literal sense. If Bane were Red Forman and staring at Cyric, I could see him giving the trademark line: Dumba$$! I've always preferred Bane (though I was warming up to Xvim before he kicked the bucket!), so I'm a little biased. ;)
Cyric has made some bad moves. The whole Zhentil Keep destruction being the main one I'm thinking about right now. Really, I think part of it comes from him being inexperienced, if he'd been a deity longer he might have pulled that one off. |
Edited by - Eilserus on 18 Jan 2015 04:02:34 |
|
|
|
MaskedOne
Acolyte
42 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 04:23:12
|
| Probably doesn't help Cyric that his predecessors really didn't plan on being replaced so he didn't get the metaphorical training wheels that were waiting for Midnight when she ascended. He had Jergal and that was about it. |
|
|
|
Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 04:53:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
Is the line up of gods in the Ed Greenwood presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms book, the one's we might possibly see in 5th edition?
I think it's a start.
I hope we get all those deities and more, along with writeups the way Ed did them in EGP:EFR because they're easily useable by DMs and players, without being overlong. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 05:57:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cyric isn't stupid, he's extremely petty and paranoid. He has brains, but he filters everything thru the lens of everyone looking down on him (despite how "superior" he is) and being out to get him, and acts accordingly.
Stupidity comes in many forms, though. If you take the definition for stupid of "not having good sense" (aka reason), then letting emotions override your better judgment is stupid.
At the root of paranoia is fear and hatred. Cyric has both in abundance, and they're his main driving motivations. If he technically has good sense but allows his good sense to be controlled and overrun constantly by negative emotions, well, some might define that as stupid.
Cyric might be fairly smart (debatable IMO), but frankly he can be duped by gods/situations that promise revenge or cutting down his enemies. He's quite often stupid.
In my opinion, stupidity is a lack of intelligence, which is not the same as a lack of common sense. I've known people with a lot of intelligence and very little common sense, and people that weren't all that smart but had great amounts of common sense.
And to further elaborate, I think intelligence is how much knowledge one can know and process, but common sense is the practical, real-world, day-to-day application of intelligence. Knowing a lot and knowing how to use that knowledge are not the same thing.
As I see it, Cyric is a smart person, capable of assimilating a lot of information. However, because of his nature, he processes that knowledge poorly, and generally spins things in the worst possible way. He's reacting to perceived threats and biases, and observers -- not perceiving those threats and biases -- don't see the causes for his actions. Cyric therefore appears to be lacking in intelligence and/or sanity. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 09:16:08
|
| Not to rain on you guys' parade but I was under the impression (according to Mike Mearls' speech at Gen Con last year) that unless already specifically stated by an author, WotC would be waiting for fan feedback to determine which gods come back. The final list would likely be stated in a Campaign Setting book, but we shouldn't expect such a book for quite a long time. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
|
|
|
Eltheron
Senior Scribe
740 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 09:56:59
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Eltheron
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Cyric isn't stupid, he's extremely petty and paranoid. He has brains, but he filters everything thru the lens of everyone looking down on him (despite how "superior" he is) and being out to get him, and acts accordingly.
Stupidity comes in many forms, though. If you take the definition for stupid of "not having good sense" (aka reason), then letting emotions override your better judgment is stupid.
At the root of paranoia is fear and hatred. Cyric has both in abundance, and they're his main driving motivations. If he technically has good sense but allows his good sense to be controlled and overrun constantly by negative emotions, well, some might define that as stupid.
Cyric might be fairly smart (debatable IMO), but frankly he can be duped by gods/situations that promise revenge or cutting down his enemies. He's quite often stupid.
In my opinion, stupidity is a lack of intelligence, which is not the same as a lack of common sense. I've known people with a lot of intelligence and very little common sense, and people that weren't all that smart but had great amounts of common sense.
And to further elaborate, I think intelligence is how much knowledge one can know and process, but common sense is the practical, real-world, day-to-day application of intelligence. Knowing a lot and knowing how to use that knowledge are not the same thing.
As I see it, Cyric is a smart person, capable of assimilating a lot of information. However, because of his nature, he processes that knowledge poorly, and generally spins things in the worst possible way. He's reacting to perceived threats and biases, and observers -- not perceiving those threats and biases -- don't see the causes for his actions. Cyric therefore appears to be lacking in intelligence and/or sanity.
Knowledge is irrelevant to stupidity, however, and intelligence is significantly dependent on knowledge.
One can be stupid or make stupid decisions even though they might also be knowledgeable or intelligent. Stupidity is all about knowing what's rationally a better decision but letting yourself be influenced by non-rational factors (emotions, history, drives, or environmental factors) and making the wrong choices.
Cyric lets himself be swayed by emotion regularly. He can be clever at times, but he has more buttons to push than a universal remote. He's an instigator, but usually also a stooge that constantly needs propping up and help from other gods, and has been consistently losing ground since his OP ascension.
If we indeed have voting influence on which gods stay or go, Cyric's gotta go. He's been around for far too long, and never should've been a deity in the first place. Kick this unwelcome pretender-deity to the curb forever.
|
"The very best possible post-fourteenth-century Realms lets down those who love the specific, detailed social, political and magical situation, with its thousands of characters, developed over forty years, and want to learn more about it; and those who'd be open to a new one with equal depth, which there just isn't time to re-produce; and those repelled, some past the point of no return, by the bad-taste-and-plausibility gap of things done to the world when its guardianship was less careful."
--Faraer |
Edited by - Eltheron on 18 Jan 2015 09:57:53 |
|
|
|
Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 11:48:08
|
| Cyric doesn't exist as a god in my games. Be botched some job years ago and got himself killed. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36910 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 14:15:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Not to rain on you guys' parade but I was under the impression (according to Mike Mearls' speech at Gen Con last year) that unless already specifically stated by an author, WotC would be waiting for fan feedback to determine which gods come back. The final list would likely be stated in a Campaign Setting book, but we shouldn't expect such a book for quite a long time.
I had not heard this one. I'd love to see how they plan on gathering this feedback. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1272 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 14:50:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
Not to rain on you guys' parade but I was under the impression (according to Mike Mearls' speech at Gen Con last year) that unless already specifically stated by an author, WotC would be waiting for fan feedback to determine which gods come back. The final list would likely be stated in a Campaign Setting book, but we shouldn't expect such a book for quite a long time.
I'd heard this, but I'm really not sure how they are going to go about it, though I have a guess.
If they do it the same way they did the playtest for 5e, they had several surveys via Legends and Lore articles that asked what kind of lore everyone liked about a certain spotlight creature. The articles themselves focused on the given creatures' history over the editions, and how they had changed over the years. The survey would then ask what aspects of lore from the various editions people liked best, and occasionally it would ask how people wanted to resolve any lore conflicts that may have existed.
Looking at the 5e MM, they took those surveys to heart as far as my memory can recall.
I could see them doing the same kind of thing with the gods. An article on the dieitys of luck/fortune might detail the whole Tyche/Tymora/Beshaba history, and ask how the readers want to have her presented in present day.
But that's just my guess as to how they'd do it. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
|
|
|
Austin the Archmage
Seeker
USA
57 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2015 : 15:34:23
|
| "Stupid" may be an oversimplification, it's just that what I've heard about Cyric make it sound like he's not a very effective schemer, and his plans succeed in spite of himself, not because of himself. |
|
|
|
combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 08:22:35
|
In the last FR game I ran, a few years back, Cyric was an ambitious man who claimed to be the prophet, and later the living vessel, of Bane.
He gained power for a brief time in Zhentil Keep, leading a rebel faction, but was defeated and executed (or martyred) by "orthodox" Banites.
At least a few priests calling on his name were rumored to have gained spells, but this rumor was never confirmed in play.
Bane was very much alive and kicking in this campaign, as he never died during the ToT.
|
YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
Edited by - combatmedic on 19 Jan 2015 08:23:06 |
|
|
|
Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jan 2015 : 20:11:37
|
It's not as if Bane hasn't acted as stupid as Cyric in his novels either. Also Bhaal was certainly not the sharpest tool in the shed. Of the Dark Three only Myrkul has not been an utter moron.
Also Cyric's plan, as needlessly convoluted as it has been, would have worked if not for being opposed by two greater and a lesser deity.
And don't let us start to talk about said lesser deity, aka Mask. He's be such an idiot that he demoted himself by one divine tier while his plan was still going smoothly, the plan was just that bad. When in Godborn Riven said that "Mask is a better planer than all of us" I had to lay down the book for a minute because I was shaking with laughter from this unintentional joke |
Edited by - Mirtek on 19 Jan 2015 20:13:39 |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
|
|
Elminster's Forgotten Realms: God line up?
