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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Dec 2014 : 23:47:18
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The title says it all.
Are you happy with another Earth Shattering Event that is supposed to fix the previous ESE?
In my opinion, it sounds very cheesy and I'm afraid it's not going to fix anything.
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 00:03:15
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Hard to tell, when we basically know nothing concrete about it.
Its premise (Ao letting the world explode just because he wanted to play teacher, and now fixing everything like np) sounds -as you say- very cheesy, tho (not that I actually care anymore about ''cheese'' at this point. I just want to see what was lost restored). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 00:17:14
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| Too early to tell yet. I wasn't happy on how the whole event was told (or not) though. |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 01:42:11
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| I'm happy because we know nothing concrete. I essentially have a blank slate with a ton of history to play with. But I'm probably in the minority. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 02:12:54
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| You can tell your story no matter what they say. Having lore is a good thing, it means having more options, not a handicap. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 16 Dec 2014 02:24:10 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 03:53:43
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| Unfortunately no, not really. Count me among the possible minority who liked the Spellplague, the removal of redundant deities, the replacements of Mexico and Egypt with interesting and original concepts, and the overall tone of the 1479 DR Realms. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 05:29:17
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| The Sundering happened? That's what it feels like. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 10:28:00
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Well surprise, surprise i am not happy.
What is there to be happy about, there hasnt been anything produced yet (well not for us DM's anyway).
Yes there are novels which is fine if that is what you want out of the realms. I however am exclusively a roleplaying gamer, and out of that group i am the DM. What i need are resources, details, options.
What i have been given are two generic adventures that could be set in any campaign world, they certainly dont seem to be placed in the Faerun that i know. And being a DM i dont use premade adventures because i'm not new to being a DM (i've been doing it for 15 years), i like to make my own.
Because i like to make my own adventures and i have my own version of FR, what i need are resources that i can build upon; details of areas, historical information, races, NPCs, organisations. Furthermore this information needs to be consistent and usable with what i already have, a rewrite of a town 100 years in the future with similarly NPCs but different names doesnt add anything i can use because i already have details of the NPCs that live there.
I have no information about the new Zhentarim, almost nothing about the new Cult of the Dragon, absolutely nothing about the new Order of the Gauntlet. And what little information there is, is completely incompatible with my version of those organisations so it just gets discarded in favour of far superior lore from previous editions.
I wouldnt mind taking the Order of the Gauntlet and reworking it into 1370s DR (i did it for the Brotherhood of the Griffon), but i havent got a clue who leads it, how it is structured, where they operate (seems to be everywhere), who their allies are, who their enemies are, what their goals are, or even what their history is.
I cannot be happy about a games company producing nothing for the game i play that they are supposed to be selling. |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1152 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 12:56:00
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I'm not yet happy with the Sundering, mostly because of the way WotC is handling it. I am however, quite content with the 5th edition ruleset. As a DM, the only thing I can say I'm worried about is if the post-Sundering changes I make to my campaign are overridden by actual lore if/when it is eventually published.
Even that however, will probably be allowed by my players - only one of them is into FR nearly as much as I am and he's only just started learning about the setting and constantly asking my advice on what topics to start with - so I can direct him along safe avenues of research.
I'm still in a 'wait and see' mindset. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 15:17:35
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
I'm still in a 'wait and see' mindset.
This is my stance, as well. Even though I've read 5 of the 6 Sundering novels (4 of which didn't grab me), I don't feel that I know enough about the Sundering to make a call on it.
The books haven't really given any more info than the vague "we're gonna do this!" statements we've gotten from WotC... I try to refrain from making decisions on things without having a sufficient amount of information, and while the trickle of info we've had thus far has been promising, there simply hasn't been enough to make the call either way.
What I do know is that we've got some good folks trying to get the Realms back to what it was, and that Ed is one of them... And Ed himself told me he was excited, which counts for a huge amount for me. So I'm content to wait.
That's my thinking on the Sundering as an event.
As for the idea of using an RSE to fix what has come before...
I'm a huge fan of continuity, and the prior commitment to maintaining continuity is one of the things that got me hooked on the Realms.
For me, it's very important to have an in-setting explanation for why something has changed -- we didn't have that when we went to 3E, and I feel the setting suffered for it. And while I'm not going to rehash the prior arguments yet again, I also feel that the Spellplague violated prior continuity.
In my mind, there is no easy way to undo the effects of the Spellplague... I don't see a way to do it without an RSE, unless you want to advance the timeline a millennium or two to allow for the more organic return to prominence of some deities and for some of the physical changes to gradually undo. And none of us wants to jump the timeline that far forward, I'm sure.
So the alternatives are either changing everything without explanation, as was done with 3E, or to yank the Band-Aid off and use an RSE to have it all over and done with quickly. I'm not keen on yet another RSE, but I don't see a viable alternative. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 15:50:28
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While so far I have not seen enough of the Sundering, despite having all products released by WotC since the start of the Sundering, to form an opinion, this lack of information is the reason for my negative opinion so far.
Maybe that will change when (if) WotC deign to give us information of what actually happened, but until then I am assuming the worst (aka cataclysmic events that should naturally follow from things started in the Sundering being swept under the table) |
Edited by - Mirtek on 16 Dec 2014 15:51:23 |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2014 : 19:46:55
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There isn't much about the post-Sundering era to have an opinion about.
The only thing I can say is that while I liked the individual Sundering novels, as a series, it really fell short on detailing the Sundering.
As for the changes we know about: I hate what was done to Myth Drannor and Shade, hate that Tymanther and Akanul are probably gone, like that several deities are being brought back and the rest I'm pretty neutral about.
Probably the thing that annoys me more about the Sundering though, is knowing that it was done mostly to try to appease people that can never really be appeased. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 16 Dec 2014 19:47:48 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2014 : 13:07:47
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It depends...
We really haven't seen 'The Sundering' yet (unless you count the original one, and except for a small bit in one of Elaine's novels, we really didn't 'see' that one either). So, if they do something really awesome in the coming months (hopefully there's a FRCG in the works, or at least something along those lines). I don't expect the new (not really) 'modular approach' to the lore to cover something that expansive - the new 'sub-setting' adventure-paths are really self-focused, so there is no way to get 'the Big Picture' from them.
I had another half page of text here, but thought better of it.
Suffice it to say I haven't seen anything that has made me embrace the Sundering any more then most of us embraced the spellplague. Its just another big buzzword slapped onto a non-event, IMO. I have VERY high hopes for The Realms moving forward, but thus far I have yet to see anything that jumps out and grabs me (which is precisely what they will need, if they want FR to be back in the RPG limelight). That doesn't mean there won't be - it just means I haven't seen it yet. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2014 : 16:19:03
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I think WotC are satisfied with the revenue being generated by the loosely connected adventures they are churning out and setting in the Realms. The added bonus of course is linking it with the organised play, getting some synergy there, and connecting with the gaming fanbase. I've looked at every single adventure so far and the FR content is cursory and basic. It doesn't draw me in or excite me - especially given some of the stuff I've seen Eric come up with in the last couple of months - and so I've passed every time. Given I don't actually game, adventures have never excited me that much anyway. I keep hoping that an FR sourcebook of substance will be announced, but I expect that is unlikely on the model WotC are following. That's why I keep making up my own realmslore. Someone has to; WotC stopped years ago.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2014 : 01:21:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Suffice it to say I haven't seen anything that has made me embrace the Sundering any more then most of us embraced the spellplague. Its just another big buzzword slapped onto a non-event, IMO. I have VERY high hopes for The Realms moving forward, but thus far I have yet to see anything that jumps out and grabs me (which is precisely what they will need, if they want FR to be back in the RPG limelight). That doesn't mean there won't be - it just means I haven't seen it yet.
Sounds a lot like "comprehensive immigration reform" to me...  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2014 : 02:27:30
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The Sundering event itself was pretty lackluster, however the new era post the sundering is great. I know that my play group has started purchasing and reading novels again and are very interested to see what the Realms look like from a mortal's point of view.
I am really enjoying the freedom that the sundering brings to running a game. Knowing that all of the deities and organizations that made the Realms appealing are back is good enough. I don't need WotC to try and provide one monolithic explanation of how FR got back all of its neat iconic stuff. I don't think any one explanation would work for everyone and allowing each group of FR fans to answer the question of how you justify the transition between 1-3e, 4e and 5e works great. I have been having more fun DMing FR in 5e than I have had in years.
I am looking forward to seeing a 5e sourcebook that hopefully provides a baseline state of the Realms post the Sundering. However, I don't need explanations for the 100 year gap, or the mysterious of the Sundering. I just want to see the Realms developing again from a healthy starting point. I am okay with filling in details when they are important for a novel or adventure, but I don't think there is anything to be gained by trying to justify every returned deity, country and group.
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Tarlyn Embersun |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2014 : 02:29:08
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
I think WotC are satisfied with the revenue being generated by the loosely connected adventures they are churning out and setting in the Realms. The added bonus of course is linking it with the organised play, getting some synergy there, and connecting with the gaming fanbase. I've looked at every single adventure so far and the FR content is cursory and basic. It doesn't draw me in or excite me - especially given some of the stuff I've seen Eric come up with in the last couple of months - and so I've passed every time. Given I don't actually game, adventures have never excited me that much anyway. I keep hoping that an FR sourcebook of substance will be announced, but I expect that is unlikely on the model WotC are following. That's why I keep making up my own realmslore. Someone has to; WotC stopped years ago.
-- George Krashos
Where you say the FR content is cursory and basic, I think you nailed it George. If they want to evoke the original Realms feel and excite folks, things need to be kicked up a few notches.
With their stance on bringing back the "magic", it is strange that they would put out products that don't pull us in. Hopefully, the process will be refined going forward. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 02:24:38
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Mixed feelings. I'm glad the Realms is steering away from 4e, but there was a lot of hype and not a whole lot of delivery, IMO.
One of the issues I have is that the events of the Sundering were delivered in mixed media (novels, computer games, comics, etc). I understand why WotC did this, and it's cool that it expanded across multiple platforms, but it also made it more difficult to keep up. But, I guess this isn't limited to the Sundering alone. When lore is only released in a certain format, it makes it more difficult to keep up.
But I was a little disappointed in the delivery. There was a lot of promise in the interviews with the authors and James Wyatt, and I felt it wasn't as exciting as they made it out to be. That said, it wasn't terrible, either. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 12:46:00
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| I just want the good old Realms back. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Xnella Moonblade-Thann
Learned Scribe
USA
234 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2014 : 17:18:07
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| I'll do what I've always done: Take the edition I like best, parts from other editions I like best, throw it into my cauldron, sprinkle in a little fan-made lore, a dash of self-made lore, stir it all together, and voila! I have the Realms the way I want to see it! |
"Sweet water and light laughter until next we meet." - traditional elven farewell
Please forgive any spelling and grammer errors, as my android touch-screen phone has no spellchecker. If I do make a grammer mistake, please let me know and I'll try to fix it.
New laptop, still trying to sort my "scrolls" on its shelves...and when will this cursed thing stop doing things I tell it not to? |
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hobbitfan
Learned Scribe
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2014 : 00:35:36
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My problem with the Sundering are mostly due to the disconnect between what the WOTC hype machine promised and then what they actually did in the novels.
That and there has been zero follow-up after it.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2014 : 00:37:17
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quote:
Originally posted by hobbitfan
My problem with the Sundering are mostly due to the disconnect between what the WOTC hype machine promised and then what they actually did in the novels.
That and there has been zero follow-up after it.
Agreed. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 24 Dec 2014 : 17:18:04
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| While most of the books were good, the series itself was an utter disappointment to me. Especially when the Cycle of Night trilogy was axed to fit The Godborn into the series. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 25 Dec 2014 : 00:04:33
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| I was really disappointed, after all the hype surrounding the Sundering event. But I'm still willing to wait and see what WOTC does next. (Although I seriously doubt I'll like it.) |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 19:56:03
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We've been told it's the RSE to end all RSE's, but so far it doesn't feel like that.
I'm reading "The Herald" right now so maybe my view will change.
What I do like about the Sundering is the Realmslore to be had. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3805 Posts |
Posted - 28 Dec 2014 : 20:08:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
We've been told it's the RSE to end all RSE's, but so far it doesn't feel like that.
I'm reading "The Herald" right now so maybe my view will change.
What I do like about the Sundering is the Realmslore to be had.
Only when they get their stuff together and decide to release said realmslore...
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 02:49:30
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Am I happy with the Sundering? Do I like this new roll-out regarding the FRCS in an advanced timeline? The 4e march of a century changed names, moved national boundaries, and altered political structures but what really changed? In 100 years there were no new innovations, no embrace of technologies, no realizations of the world order, and no movement to understand the universe. "Here comes the new boss, same as the old boss." What does the 5e version provide with this, I believe the colloquialism is, Realms Shaking Event? Swapping some places around. ... I am sure there is a lot of color text to go with that but, in the end, the core rule books really decide what happens and that dictation is that the FRCS is to remain a Realms spanning dark ages fantasy feudalism.
For those of us that have played in the Realms from that first box set in 1987 we had a Realms with many things afoot in 1350s DR, advancing to the 1360s in the 2nd Ed, and 1370's in 3/3.5. It is plausible that armored people swinging weapons and launching missiles are using the same craft styles and technologies across that period of time. 100 years is too great a period of time for things to not have changed - weapons, armors, fighting styles, tactics, fabrication methods, resources, alloys, working methods, trades, commerce, economies, philosophies, political movements, and religions. And I'm not just talking about a Dark Age but one that did not have the collapse of social order, the destruction of all libraries, and a pittance of learned men who avoided the mass killings by invading barbarians because the Realms experienced the exact opposite with more than half of its most intelligent and learned surviving the events.
The Forgotten Realms has enough fractured lore and holes in its reasoning that I don't need more added to the mix while losing the things I had already found worthwhile or fixed to my liking. I am not paying money to play the "fixed" version of someone's screw-up of a product that doesn't address my concerns but blithely continues with the IMO worst aspects.
Well, that's my long-winded way of saying "no." |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 03:54:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Only when they get their stuff together and decide to release said Realmslore...
it's in the novels--or at least the ones I have read. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 13:24:32
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quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
100 years is too great a period of time for things to not have changed - weapons, armors, fighting styles, tactics, fabrication methods, resources, alloys, working methods, trades, commerce, economies, philosophies, political movements, and religions.
By that argument the FR should be be a spacefaring sci-fi-setting like Warhammer 40k, given that FR history has some 20,000-years on our own civilization timeline.
The 100 years from 4e are a drop in the ocean compared to the 20 millenium the lazy elves had to invent phasers and warp drives already |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2014 : 19:27:44
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Cormyr has shown some signs of small advancements both mundane and magic. Little mentions in certain of the post-Spellplague/pre-Sundering Elminster novels talk about screw top potion lids, intricate locks and so on.
The Realms is not and never has been static. It advances, gets blown up, and proceeds anew. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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How happy are you with the Sundering?
