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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Feb 2004 : 23:27:29
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We have been kicking around this thought for quite sometime. We have thought of arguements for all sides and have reached a stalemate. So We send out a cry for aid in this idea. Can a Surface elf give praise to Lolth/Lloth? And would Lolth/Lloth look up on the elf as a fool, a useful tool, or simply ignore them?
We thank thee for thy time and consideration 
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It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Trafaldi
Learned Scribe
264 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 00:27:10
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| she would probably think them a fool no matter what she does but if she thinks that he may be useful she will use him, but if she has no use she will ignore him. It all really depends upon the elf. |
Some believe there is something more after death, if you really want to find out... go kill yourself and stop pestering me. |
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Cherrn
Learned Scribe
Denmark
323 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 00:51:50
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Lolth is the embodiment of Chaos, using a sun elf for her own fun would indeed be possible. I don't think a sun elf would give praise to Lolth though since the surface elven hatred for Lolth is so deep.
*spoiler*
In "The Lone Drow" the priestess of Lolth speculates that Drizzt is the chosen of Lolth since that fact would indeed be chaotic and it might explain why Drizzt has survived up until now. |
A wise man from Calimport once told me: "If a merchant puts sand in the flask of oil he's trying to sell you, then he isn't trying to sell you sand..." |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 02:35:59
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| Also, in Evermeet; Island of the Elves, Kymil Nimesin recieves aid from Lolth in return for a pledge of fealty (though Ghaunadaur did help too). Kymil is a sun elf, so there's your answer. |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 05:37:49
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Yes; he didn't actually praise Lloth, but he took her offer.
If a gold elf were to convert, Lloth would likely see him/her as (I'd think in this order):
1) potentially useful,
2) grossly subordinate to drow (despite what she'd see as him/her coming around to the truth -- gee, that sounds familiar  ), and
3) if nothing else, a nice way to stir up trouble. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 05:48:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Bookwyrm
If a gold elf were to convert, Lloth would likely see him/her as (I'd think in this order):
1) potentially useful,
2) grossly subordinate to drow (despite what she'd see as him/her coming around to the truth -- gee, that sounds familiar ), and
3) if nothing else, a nice way to stir up trouble.
You forgot to add #4 Something to discard, in a very grotesque manner, whenever she was threw using him/her. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 06:06:33
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Hmmm, I also seem to recall how in Evermeet: Island of Elves, Lolth threatens Kymil by saying he could be the first gold elven drider......  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 06:09:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowlord
Hmmm, I also seem to recall how in Evermeet: Island of Elves, Lolth threatens Kymil by saying he could be the first gold elven drider......
Yep, I recall something along the lines of a threat like that. Lolth, the equal opportunity punisher. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 07:16:28
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| To be transformed into a drider, and that is seens as a Punishment or curse? How is that so? |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 07:27:32
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What, you want to be a drider? That's something I'd be expecting Cyric to say, if the Realms Cyric had driders.
As I understand it (lacking as I do any stats for driders in any edition), a drider would loose all free will, though some rare driders retain theirs. They are a perversion of the two forms Lloth likes -- the drow and the spider. Chaotic mix, I guess. Anyway, it's not supposed to be fun. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 07:52:22
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To be combined of both Humanoid and of the spider is the perfect form. The merging of two great creations. A Drider is no different from that of a Formian. Which is a race that is slow dominating the outer planes. A drider would be the perfect hunter of sorts. A being of poison and strength as well as intelligence and sorcery. Indeed they are outcasts and hate endlessly, however it seems that they are not as mindless as some like to think ( Stats: Str: 15 Dex 15 Con 16 Int 15 Wis 16 and Cha 16) they are perhaps more driven by their bloodlust, anger and Hate. Besides tis far easier to become a drider than a Dragon |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 16:53:05
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| I don't know where you're getting that. Everything I've heard points to driders being a punishment that Lloth gives to those who displease her. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 20:08:56
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It is, Bookwyrm. Cardinal, here, is a Lolthite fanatic, which makes him one of Vhaeraun's greatest foes....  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 01 Mar 2004 : 21:09:42
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Fanatic is such an ugly word. Anyways, the fact is that they are not destoryed outright, thus giving them a second chance to gain Lolth's favor. Punishment you say? What greater way is there to pay homage than follow the same path Lolth took, when the cruel Corellon exiled and banished the spider queen? They are given the embodiment of their goddess, a truly chosen race. Punishement, blessing, tis all the same to those who recieve such a gift.
Besides if Vhaeraun made more sense and less lies then we would follow him, but as it stands Lolth is the only deity we will trust. At least trust more than any of the other pretenders and fakes that have the gall to call themselves gods. |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Talmar
Acolyte
United Kingdom
2 Posts |
Posted - 03 Mar 2004 : 16:54:18
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| And whom is the one answering their worshipers' prayers at the moment, hmm? |
Edited by - Talmar on 03 Mar 2004 16:59:58 |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2004 : 04:27:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Talmar
And whom is the one answering their worshipers' prayers at the moment, hmm?
She'll be back. I'm convinced while the WOTSQ has some fantastic characters and some of the best Realms writing in a long time, that the series' events will change little when it comes to Drow pantheon. I hope I'm wrong, but... |
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Talmar
Acolyte
United Kingdom
2 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2004 : 08:58:25
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quote:
Originally posted by SiriusBlack
She'll be back. I'm convinced while the WOTSQ has some fantastic characters and some of the best Realms writing in a long time, that the series' events will change little when it comes to Drow pantheon. I hope I'm wrong, but...
I'd like to see some minor changes, but I agree the Spider Queen will be back. I did specificly say at the moment after all. |
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SiriusBlack
Great Reader
USA
5517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Mar 2004 : 16:43:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Talmar
I'd like to see some minor changes, but I agree the Spider Queen will be back. I did specificly say at the moment after all.
I know. Look upon my post as a reminder to all those who would like to kick Spider Queen worshippers now while they are down. That group might be a tad vengeful once she makes her reappearance. Just a bit. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 05:46:15
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The Queen of Spiders is merely waiting, till the right moment, then look out!... We mean, even Vhaeraun couldn't get to her. Besides, this moment of silence will only strengthen the Drow. If the race as a whole is erradicated.... then they were not worthy of kissing the ground where She tread. A chosen race means nothing, tis the faith of the worshipers that is everything... Victory to the Spider Queen...
Or until someone better comes along... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 17:08:11
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The Queen is merely waiting, and doing so for her own reasons. In time she will return. Her faithful shall be rewarded and her enemies struck down. The real vengence shall come upon those who lost faith during her silence however. All things are test, even death. Why should her silence be any different?
Now...as to Cardinal's view of driders. Heretical. You are lucky you express such utter devotion in other ways. You wish to become a drider? You think the form is perfect? That form was created by Corellon as he betrayed our Dark Mother. That form is a punishment inflicted by a jealous and malicious Seldarine on the one who is their rightful queen. That form is an abomination.
Besides, do you not realize the Ilythiir form is perfection incarnate? What other race can possibly compare to our beauty and our grace? You would willingly give that up to become some hideous beast? Waela jaluk. Driders are monsters, their state in life a punishment by our Goddess for their lack of faith or other whatever other weakness they displayed.
The mere fact that a drider is also a deadly creature is simply a testament to the power of the Ilythiiri and our Goddess - even our castoffs are superior to the lesser races. As for the driders themselves, some are enslaved as you mentioned. Others live in the wild like animals, scratching out a living killing deep rats, horrors and other disgusting things. A few actually retain enough of their intelligence, sense of self and independence to rebel against the society that found them wanting - these we must destroy.
As for these other 'gods' mentioned, such as Vhaerun, well...it seems we have seen how effective Vhaerun is relative to our Spider Queen - though Lolth was silent and slumbering, Vhaerun was still impotent. What do you expect from a god who has to hide his face?
Lolth tlu malla. |
Edited by - Mikayla on 05 Mar 2004 17:11:05 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 17:29:33
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Whoo! Now, she puts you to shame, Cardinal! You might have two or more minds, but it looks like she's even more fanatical.
Now, what's worse for a drow -- being transformed into a drider, or into a surface elf? |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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lowtech
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 05 Mar 2004 : 18:19:06
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quote:
Now, what's worse for a drow -- being transformed into a drider, or into a surface elf?
Ask Lolth: she's had both happen to her! |
Edited by - Alaundo on 06 Mar 2004 09:52:22 |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 01:53:45
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We are not and never were fanatical, Bookwyrm. ... we simply state things as we see them... we think it would be a surface elf that would be the curse...never a drider
* A scowl comes across Deimos' face but grovels at Mikayla's feet*
Evagna udossa ilharess ilhar, udos joros dosst nelgetha whol udossta ssiggrins.
And yet they are true... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 08:13:48
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**Notices the male at her feet. Puts a hand on one hip, examines him with a bit of interest.**
Your tongue begs forgiveness and your body kneels male, but I sense your mind disagrees and your soul yet stands.
**Smiles wickedly and lets whip uncoil.**
We can solve that dichotomy however....
As for the topic at hand, elf or drider? Too many unanswered questions. A transformation into a drider is a punishment from our goddess, so it is hard to see what could be worse. On the other hand, we nurse no hatred greater than that we keep for the darthiir. Still, though I would not presume to know the dark mother's mind, it seems far from her usual style to transform an Ilythiir into a Darthiir. Seems more like the doings of an iblith wizard. In such case, the transformation does not signal the damnation of our goddess, but without some method to undue the change, a quick death would certainly be called for if for no other reason than to prevent the suffering of the one so changed. Of course, we have not addressed what uses we could put such a changling to. Alas, I would love to speak more on this, but I seem to have a spirited male to deal with. If you will excuse me, I have to attend to him.
**Laughs evilly, stretches whip, and turn her attentions to the Cardinal...*
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 20:49:44
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| You miss perhaps the greatest bonus of such a thing happening. Not only would it be a way to remove a rival but also to gain an immediate Darthiir sacrifice... Lolth would be pleased with such a grand plot, we think... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2004 : 22:57:14
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**Stops in mid-swing with her whip.**
There may be hope for you yet male.
Of course, your implication that a Yathtallar has "missed" anything is quite presumptuous for your station.
**Raises the whip again....**
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Edited by - Mikayla on 06 Mar 2004 22:58:54 |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2004 : 01:04:52
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| Never would we assume something like that. The Yathtallar are infallible and would neve miss such things... We simply stated it.... for the advantage of those who do not understand the full glory that is the Spider Queen and her way of strengthening... Yes nothing more... Trust us... |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2004 : 03:11:30
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| Jal khaless zhah waela. |
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The Cardinal
Senior Scribe
Canada
647 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2004 : 05:11:02
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Drill udos ph' natha waela jaluk, ph' udos naut?
* Grins* |
It has to be Certain, the Gods Hate Me. For whatever irrevokable Fate, I have been made the walking Joke. Either that, or Beshaba is overlyfond Of Me.
-Unknown |
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Mikayla
Acolyte
USA
20 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2004 : 05:50:19
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Dos ph', lu' nindel zhah ele Usstan xun naut khaless dos.
But a useful one perhaps. We shall see..... |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 08 Mar 2004 : 17:42:25
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::Bookwyrm smacks his wand against his desk::
Blast! My wand of comprehend languages ran out of charges again! 
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Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Topic |
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A Sun Elf Who Worships Lolth?
