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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Tempus supposedly was born when Selune and Shar first fought. However his besting of Garagos and assumption of primary god of war could have resulted in this origin since Garagos may have been the one born when Selune and Shar first fought and so by beating Garagos Tempus essentially becomes him (until Garagos returns in 1368).

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

Where is the mention of Garagos appearing during the ToT from, I must have missed it.

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Originally posted by Aldrick

My position on the Tempus and Garagos situation has always been the following.

1. Targus originated in the Netherese Pantheon.

2. Garagos was originally a separate deity whose worship was in the Westgate region (potentially a Jhaamdath deity? Unknown.).

3. Tempus was a Talfiric deity.

4. Jhaamdath falls, Garagos loses considerable amount of worshipers, becomes a minor power in the Realms. His base of worshipers become very regional.

5. Netheril falls. Targus worshipers migrate south after the fall, encountering Tempus and Garagos worshipers.

6. Targus worshipers wipe out the bulk of Garagos worshipers. Worship of Targus/Garagos becomes synonymous which is how he develops the alias. Similar events take place between Kozah, as his faithful defeat Talos of the Talfiric pantheon--ultimately assuming his name and identity.

7. Battles between the faithful of Targus/Garagos against Tempus of the Talfiric pantheon reach a tipping point and break in favor of Tempus. This begins gradual decline and destruction of the bulk of Targus/Garagos faithful as many begin the worship of Tempus as the primary war god of the emerging Faerunian Pantheon.

8. All of these events take place within the context of the Dawn Cataclysm--so named for Lathander's attempts to reshape the emerging proto-Faerunian Pantheon in his image, and his particular attempt to wipe out evil deities. The actual event was caused by the collapse of Jhaamdath, Netheril, and later Myth Drannor and the large refugee migrations that they caused. This in turn caused smaller regional human ethnic pantheons to begin merging together into the proto-Faerunian Pantheon.

9. Later, the worship of Garagos is revived around Westgate. The religion is bastardized due to its heavy intermingling between Targus/Garagos worshipers after the original Garagos' destruction. The deity that returns is the original Garagos, and not Targus of the Netherese Pantheon. However, he is in a much altered form than his original state, having many components of the worship of Targus due to the bastardization and close intermingling of the faiths after his original destruction.

I do not think there was a literal battle between Tempus and Targus/Garagos, just as I do not think the War of Light and Darkness involving Shar and Selune is literal. These are mortal interpretations and myths of what took place over the course of many years (decades, potentially even centuries). Not only that, they are events which happened hundreds if not thousands of years in the past. It is simply easier to understand and conceptualize in the form of easy to understand myths and legends. Deities did not actually come down into the Realms and start fighting it out between one another until the Time of Troubles, when Ao essentially altered the rules and shattered the Tablets of Fate.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

I think this is largely right, except maybe for #9. I would make it more along the lines of "the northern branch of the faith (Targus-worshipers) fade in number, and the "southern branch of the faith (Garagos-worshipers) rise in relative prominence, but overall the worship of Tempus soars. (And perhaps Tempus defeats Garagos and subjugates him concurrent with a battle in which Tempus-worshipers defeat Targus/Garagos-worshipers.)

--Eric

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Originally posted by Aldrick

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

I think this is largely right, except maybe for #9. I would make it more along the lines of "the northern branch of the faith (Targus-worshipers) fade in number, and the "southern branch of the faith (Garagos-worshipers) rise in relative prominence, but overall the worship of Tempus soars. (And perhaps Tempus defeats Garagos and subjugates him concurrent with a battle in which Tempus-worshipers defeat Targus/Garagos-worshipers.)

--Eric

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...but if I remember correctly the worship of Garagos/Targus had virtually died out entirely. The faith was essentially wiped out completely, and was only revived when a demon attempted to take up the mantle of Garagos in Westgate by impersonating the (then very much assumed to be dead) deity. Garagos then seemingly reappeared as a result, the demon was killed, and his faith returned to the Realms (centered around Westgate).

I believe this is how the faith of Garagos returned to the Realms. I will have to look up the sources, to confirm the exact details of the story.

Anyway, to my understanding the worship of Targus/Garagos had virtually died out. His faith seemed to have suffered largely the same fate as Amaunator. This makes sense as the cult of Tempus would be subsuming the faithful of Targus/Garagos into their own faith, and waging war on those who did not embrace him as the deity of war.

I imagine if you actually dig down deep on a very local level on some of the cults of Tempus, you will find remnants of old Targus/Garagos practices as part of the local orthopraxy. We would likely even discover former temples and shrines of Targus/Garagos that have been claimed by the faithful of Tempus and re-purposed for their use.

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