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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 20:23:14
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wooly you are a horrible moderator, if u demand that i enter a debate without a firm convition you are nothing but an intectual bully who wants people to yield thier opinions to the majority or to your "exprince".as i said and u work hard not to udnerstand, facts dont yield, thinking men are aligned to facts not men.
if u want someone to enter with the possiblty that he is wrong u will never get any kind of thinking man. i am a thinking man and i am not gonna stay.
delete my account for the love of Gond lest i am tempted to come back.
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Knowledge is Power |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 20:51:30
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I will not delete your account. I will not ban you without cause, either (and I do not consider personal insults directed against me to be just cause, even when they violate the Code of Conduct).
And no one has demanded that you enter into a debate without a firm conviction. What has been commented on -- repeatedly, by many people -- is that no matter what facts are presented, no matter what personal experience someone presents -- you invariably tell them they are wrong and that only you are right.
A true intellectual will not only admit that he could be wrong on something, he will consider all available data, and if necessary, he will change his views to accommodate the new information. That does not mean an intellectual will not enter into a debate; it means that an intellectual does not enter into a debate with the immutable stance that they could not possibly be wrong about anything.
If you want to say you are a thinking man, that's fine. Prove it by being willing to consider that disagreeing with you is not proof of being wrong, illogical, or anti-intellectual.
Spell-checking and proper grammar would also help prove that stance. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 20 Oct 2014 20:53:06 |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 21:05:32
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| Whew! I never thought I'd yearn for the 4e flame wars... |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 21:26:39
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I almost wonder if Brace again, however it feel different.
Xal Valzar you clearly have upset some of the scribes at candlekeep, this by itself should not be a problem. I have upset some scribes of candlekeep.
Elf/orc offspring is one of the first I recall you asking about, some saying their understandings of what was rules and what was lore.
I really had not noticed until today any threads locked started by you, clearly it is those scrolls did not attract my full attention. One thing one should consider is replies are based on how the reader of post understands it - this clearly can often be not the writer of the post intended it to be understood as.
Your listed location appears to indicate also that English might not be a your native language, that some of your thoughts could be lost in translation. Wooly indeed uses his judgement and works with the moderation team. If I was moderator I would ban or suspend others quicker then what I have seen from you, there again I would ban myself for a few questionable posts. In fairness also because I do not moderate here, I do not look at every post that a user makes. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 21:42:39
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I'm quoting from another thread, since that one got closed.
quote:
Originally posted by Dazzlerdal
This is the tenth topic i have read this week that features one person arguing with the rest of the forum that right is now left and up is now down.
Is there no way to turn him off.
{sigh}
I had a completely different post here, but decided to erase it. Lets just say I've learned that "you either agree with the Captain, or you walk the plank".
But just look at what you typed there, Dazzlerdal - you are saying that ONLY people who agree with the majority should be welcome here. That is SO WRONG, on so many levels. Entitlement at its worst.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Oct 2014 22:29:32 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4688 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 21:59:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm quoting from another thread, since that one got closed.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
This is the tenth topic i have read this week that features one person arguing with the rest of the forum that right is now left and up is now down.
Is there no way to turn him off.
{sigh}
I had a completely different post here, but decided to erase it. Lets just say I've learned that "you either agree with the Captain, or you walk the plank".
But just look at what you typed there, Dazzlerdal - you are saying that ONLY people who agree with the majority should be welcome here. That is SO WRONG, on so many levels. Entitlement at its worst.
Are your quote attributes off? I certainly do not recall posting a complaint about 10 threads. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 22:14:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Xal Valzar
wooly you are a horrible moderator, if u demand that i enter a debate without a firm convition you are nothing but an intectual bully who wants people to yield thier opinions to the majority or to your "exprince".as i said and u work hard not to udnerstand, facts dont yield, thinking men are aligned to facts not men.
if u want someone to enter with the possiblty that he is wrong u will never get any kind of thinking man. i am a thinking man and i am not gonna stay.
delete my account for the love of Gond lest i am tempted to come back.
You're embarrassing yourself. I was about to come in here and defend you to a degree, until I went back and read all your responses in the "how racist are elves?" thread. Some of your posts (for example, the last response to TBeholder) are condescending and dismissive. You think it's perfectly fine to talk down to people you consider to have invalid points. But when someone else considers your arguments flawed, and points it out, you throw a fit and start multiple threads whining about it. I love a vigorous discussion, but when you argue aggressively, you can't take your ball and go home when people argue back. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 22:30:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Are your quote attributes off? I certainly do not recall posting a complaint about 10 threads.
Sorry - got screwed-up in the cross-thread quoting. 
Corrected. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 22:31:48
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Don't waste your energies. Xal Valzar won't be here in 2-3 months time. Like many incendiary initial posters, they all flame out eventually and move on when they don't get their argumentative "rush".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 22:34:05
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1. Well spoken, Wooly.
2. If repeatedly and vocally disagreeing with a moderator were enough to get someone banned, even temporarily, I would have been silenced several times. So far, I haven't been. (Thanks  )
3. I think an Ignore button is the solution some of us are craving. Banning is addressed by the moderators in accordance with the forum policies, the material of which they're already familiar with. Ignore would be a tool we can each use to safeguard our days against being wrecked by sudden attacks of lameness. So here's looking forward to the increased functionality of Candlekeep 2.0. |
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Xal Valzar
Learned Scribe
Argentina
214 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 22:34:26
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i dont talk "down" i just treat people the way they are. secondly none of you know how to present an argument or to prove something via logic. try a sillogism, it is the most basic form of logic and quite easy.
i have not seen any of you use any form of formal or informal logic. if you can find it please name it. good luck.
u dont argue, u just throw out whatever u feel to be true, thats not arguing thats just jebrish. i give facts from and demonstrations from history. long chains of causation. u reply with snark remarks.
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Lyiat
Seeker
91 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 22:45:54
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
3. I think an Ignore button is the solution some of us are craving. Banning is addressed by the moderators in accordance with the forum policies, the material of which they're already familiar with. Ignore would be a tool we can each use to safeguard our days against being wrecked by sudden attacks of lameness. So here's looking forward to the increased functionality of Candlekeep 2.0.
I like the principal, but I'm just not sure if a ignore button is practical. I find it important to be able to read someone's statements and know that they posted, as misguided as they may be, and then ignore them of my own accord if there is no reason to reply to them. It would provide a context to the current topic that you could be missing if you can't see half the posts.
Perhaps something that censored their posts for you, collapsed them so that you had to open them manually if you wanted to. |
"Stand and deliver, that my hamster might have a better look at you." ~ Minsc |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4438 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 22:58:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm quoting from another thread, since that one got closed.
quote:
Originally posted by Dazzlerdal
This is the tenth topic i have read this week that features one person arguing with the rest of the forum that right is now left and up is now down.
Is there no way to turn him off.
{sigh}
I had a completely different post here, but decided to erase it. Lets just say I've learned that "you either agree with the Captain, or you walk the plank".
But just look at what you typed there, Dazzlerdal - you are saying that ONLY people who agree with the majority should be welcome here. That is SO WRONG, on so many levels. Entitlement at its worst.
Hey I feel welcomed and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Spellplague and 4E Realms, something I think is in the minority inside these halls. I mean, sure things are still heated from time to time and tempers flare but I never really felt that I should shove off because people don't share my beliefs.
As for Wooly, he and I don't usually agree when it comes to the Realms and I'm certain my preferences has made him shake his head a time or 10, but I never felt that he was a bad moderator and has often stuck up for me when I've been targeted for my likes and desires here. He may not like what you like but he'll defend your ability to speak it here in these halls.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2014 : 23:48:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Hey I feel welcomed and I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Spellplague and 4E Realms, something I think is in the minority inside these halls. I mean, sure things are still heated from time to time and tempers flare but I never really felt that I should shove off because people don't share my beliefs.
As for Wooly, he and I don't usually agree when it comes to the Realms and I'm certain my preferences has made him shake his head a time or 10, but I never felt that he was a bad moderator and has often stuck up for me when I've been targeted for my likes and desires here. He may not like what you like but he'll defend your ability to speak it here in these halls.
I've always had a lot of respect for the way you have defended the 4E Realms. You've always done your best to show the highlights of the 4E setting, and you have demonstrated a great willingness to actually discuss it in a calm and reasonable manner.
I've certainly not always agreed with you, but I will always respect you and anyone else who listens to and respects the opinions of others, and who is willing to engage in friendly debates. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2014 : 00:10:35
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Aww, you still put some crumbs of attention into the feeder. It's out of hamstery heart's fuzziness, or what?  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2014 : 00:19:32
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| and k thx bye |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2014 : 00:46:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I'm quoting from another thread, since that one got closed.
quote:
Originally posted by Dazzlerdal
This is the tenth topic i have read this week that features one person arguing with the rest of the forum that right is now left and up is now down.
Is there no way to turn him off.
{sigh}
I had a completely different post here, but decided to erase it. Lets just say I've learned that "you either agree with the Captain, or you walk the plank".
But just look at what you typed there, Dazzlerdal - you are saying that ONLY people who agree with the majority should be welcome here. That is SO WRONG, on so many levels. Entitlement at its worst.
I think you are misunderstanding Dazzlerdal. Xal Valzar originally came here to ask for opinions on his character, and some lore related questions. However, after spending numerous pages talking with him it became clear that what Xal was really seeking was for everyone to be amazed at his awesomeness. His character is a personal wish fulfillment Mary Sue. When we attempted to critique it, he began insulting us with personal attacks.
He then started a number of other threads which were, at their core, all about the same topic. Xal wants us to marvel at how intelligent he is, and is actively seeking approval. When he does not get the responses that he wants, he attacks other people. He is also looking for ways to shove Ayn Rand's philosophy down our throats, since at the core every topic revolves around that.
I suspect that Xal is roughly fourteen years old, and thinks he is some great philosopher because he read the Fountainhead and Atlas Shrugged. In reality Xal is of mediocre intelligence, and lacks a fundamental understanding of how the real world works.
Having seen and dealt with a number of individuals just like Xal over the years I am happy to say that eventually he will grow out of it. Ayn Rand's books and philosophy have a tendency to appeal to a younger demographic, and there are always a handful who go through an Objectivist phase after reading them. It is usually temporary. A day will come in the future where Xal will look back on all of this and be embarrassed by what he wrote and what he thought. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2014 : 00:56:09
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Has everyone gotten their fill of drama yet?
It would be great if a moderator came along and did what most moderators do in this situation: close the thread. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2014 : 01:02:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
I LOVE LOVE LOVE the Spellplague and 4E Realms
Weirdo.
Just playin. You're right, it does get heated sometimes. Most are better than I am about keeping a cool head and respecting opposing points of view. I stink at it, and I'm fortunate to have been given several reminders and opportunities to learn. I have a lot of respect for Wooly and Jeremy (who don't always see eye to eye either) and when they oppose me I'm forced to take a step or two back and re-evaluate. I shall be adding more people to this list, because it's good to have many such prompts.
Xal Valzar is one of those learning opportunities. I'm guessing we've all been completely convinced of something at some point. Most of us have a few non-negotiables in our lives. Religion is a common one, certain political issues are others... things we're just not willing to bend on. In the case of religion we might even view it as morally wrong to compromise on the tenets we hold on high. This is probably one reason why the moderators don't appreciate these topics being brought up... they bring out the worst in us. It strikes me as very strange that what we regard as our best traits are often the worst annoyances involved in talking with us, but that's a tangent.
I'm guessing Xal has had a formal logic class and apparently some philosophy, as have some of the rest of us. We were presented with ideas in those classes --universal versus relative truth, objective versus subjective perspective, etc-- and we had some choices to make. In order to get along with others, many of us choose to put those ideals on the back burner... even if we strongly believe in them, we soften them when we're dealing with others. Failing to do this is a recipe for being banished from society.
Example: the drawbacks of smoking cigarettes are well-documented. Decades of research has taken place, and anyone with a level head can acknowledge that there's no way in which smoking tobacco is a good thing. With little effort, I can make an airtight case that smoking is stupid and cold and evil. I've even looked people in the eye and said that people who smoke obviously don't love their kids, because if they did they wouldn't be slowly killing those children (and themselves) with second-hand smoke.
Needless to say, this viewpoint won't make me any friends... except among others who choose cold logic over having any sort of relationship with other human beings.
The "fly in the ointment" of my rational thinking regarding smoking is that I have family members and friends who smoke and have children. It's easy to say "CPS should take children away from parents who smoke." It's hard to tell a friend I've known my whole life that they're unfit to be a parent... not because of any anger problems or sexual perversion or anything that is typically thought of as endangering children, but because they're in the throes of a torturous addiction and they don't feel strong enough to get out. I can't proclaim that they don't love their kids. I know that they do. They can't quit to save their own lives, but they've been heroically trying to keep it away from their children for years or decades. These exceptions do not nullify my reasoning; cigarette smoke does diminish the lifespan of those who inhale it, and slowly killing your family is not consistent with love.
So reasonable people sometimes find themselves in a paradox. Truth within an impossibility. We either prioritize the truth by recognizing it, or we get hung up on the impossibility. Either way, we champion part of the picture and we ignore or paint over the rest.
I think Xal fails or declines to see the paradox. I have no illusions that anyone cares about my "diagnosis" --least of all Xal-- but I guess I care enough to state it anyway. This is a paradox too, for me. I'd like to just "collapse" Xal's posts on my screen, as Lyiat describes... but I can relate a bit. I have an affinity for logic and rational thought too... in fact it's precisely that tendency that makes me easily dismiss any good points that Xal might potentially make. But my "problem" is that I have these "yes but Jeremy and Wooly" spectacles, through which I'm often compelled to read these forums, and while wearing those spectacles I find myself reading points of view that don't agree with my own, and sighing in frustration as I find nuggets (and the occasional mine, truth be told) of truth. Those jerks, being smart and stuff. I especially hate Jeremy's signature, with its concise reminder to build up the positive and move beyond the negative. Nothing bugs me as much as something I can't effectively dismiss.
The solution to the paradox is another paradox. Be rational as often as possible, and defend rational thought with everything you have. Also be as compassionate as you can "and then some." Defend the indefensible; it's good practice. Also, take your own advice sometimes. This last bit is my direction to myself.
Please note: This is not about smoking, or religion or politics; they're obviously completely off-topic and I only mentioned them as examples for a point that is relevant to the forum, which is our ability to converse as rational-but-also-compassionate-and-inherently-fallible beings. If you feel the need to say something about any/all of those irrelevant topics, email me... I'll let you rant if that's what you need, or we can discuss it. It just doesn't belong here. Thanks.
And what is wrong with you, if you read all of this? Go write some Realmslore! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2014 : 01:50:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Has everyone gotten their fill of drama yet?
I think we have. I especially don't like to see the intelligence of other scribes questioned... It's easy to question the intelligence of someone whom a person disagrees with, though that doesn't mean it's at all warranted. I'd really prefer not to see that from anyone, going forward.
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
It would be great if a moderator came along and did what most moderators do in this situation: close the thread.
I honestly didn't see a need to close it, initially. Xal said he would not be back, so I figured the thread would get a response or two and then be forgotten by everyone. My mistake.
That said, Jeremy's points are valid: Nothing to see here, move along. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 21 Oct 2014 01:51:04 |
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wooly rupert you are an intectual bully.
Topic Locked
