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Originally posted by Irennan

Idk, it wasn't really a forced change, more something on the lines of a curse removal (since, if I got your version right, they were trying to get rid of Wendonai).

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Originally posted by melodichand

Now I am getting confused. The way everyone is wording this is making it sound like all drow have always had the blood of Wendonai.

But it is my understanding that the drow were changed into what they are THOUSANDS of years before the blood came. And upon Eilistrae's death all drow not affected by the blood(Mostly her followers) were "cured" into becoming dark elves(Or brown elves, as the thread has been referring to them).

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Wendonai is a balor lord who, in -11500 DR was tasked by Lolth to seduce the Sethomiir clan, rulers of the Ilythiiri into her worship and grant them evil magics. He succeeded and was probably the greatest (but by no means the only) influence on the fall of the Dark elf.

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Originally posted by LordofBones

I think the drow need to get away from Lolth and Eilistraee for a while. The various other Underdark cities show that the drow are perfectly capable of having lives outside of the Spider-Psycho and Token Good Teammate.

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Originally posted by Eilserus

I think we need to see drow cities that don't follow the Menzo / Ched Nasad structure.

Undraeth for instance is ruled by Queen Nathglaryst who is a priestess of Lolth and powerful sorcerer. She's supposedly insane and worshipped as an avatar of Lolth. There's no real high ranking priestesses because Nathglaryst puts them on the altar and gives them to Lolth.

Ed has in the past made mention in novels of drow priestesses attempting to breed I believe Sylune with spiders to create biddable driders for drow warriors for battles with rival deep cities of drow.

There's also been mentioned that trading families rule some communities of dark elves, who don't like the expense of war and just send the hot heads off on suicide missions.

There's a hidden drow city in Ed's novel Silverfall called Telnarquel, the Hidden City. Abandoned by the drow now (and why?), but who lived there etc.?

These are the type of cities I'd love to know more about. And two of them seem to follow Lolth but not in the way we know. So surely there's more out there that follow the other gods, or dark outer planar powers.

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Originally posted by Mirtek

I think he sees no difference between them, he's just that full of hatred. Like in that one short story in the anthology: A group of Shevarashan attack a small drow outpost and kills all drow. Then they discover a drow child did survive. One Shevarashan refused to kill the little girl and her companions just kill her and the child and move on.

I beleive he would hunt Ellistrae and her followers if that wouldn't cost him support of the Seldarine.

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ALLIES: Callarduaran Smoothhands, Haela Brightaxe, Lurue, Mystra, the Seldarine, Selune

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Shevarash has allied himself with both enemies of Lolth and other seekers of revenge, namely Callarduran Smoothhands, Hoar, Shar and Shaundakul. Like his patron Fenmarel Mestarine, the Black Archer is something of an outcast among the Seldarine; the others find him to be too dour and grim. Shevarash's foes are the evil deities of the drow pantheon and, to a lesser extent, the other evil deities of the Underdark.

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Solonor Thelandira, Shevarash, Gwaeron Windstrom, and Eilistraee are all on good terms with Fenmarel Mestarine, but only the beauty and gentleness of Sehanine Moonbow can bring him into the council halls of the Seldarine.

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Originally posted by ericlboyd

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Originally posted by Fellfire

I was under the impression that wood/green/copper elves were the same thing.

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In 3.5e FR, there are six subraces:

Sun / Gold Elves
Moon / Silver Elves
Wood / Copper Elves
Wild / Green Elves
Drow
Avariels

Arguably Lythari are a seventh.

And the "extinct" pre-Drow dark elves are an eighth.

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Originally posted by George Krashos

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Originally posted by Mystic Lemur

George, every source I've read (which is by no means all) has said that all the dark elves (Ilythiir and Miyeritar) were turned into Drow. It was an unintended consequence of the high magic used to punish the bad ones (or maybe the mages just didn't care). I'm a little hazy on if Elistraee was turned by the spell, or chose her new form when she chose to become a drow deity.

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The seminal source - "Cormanthyr" timeline (p.31) actually says "Correlon's magic, as directed through his priests and High Mages, transforms the dark elves, whether the corrupt Ilythiiri or others, into the drow."

At face value, the simple conclusion from this would be as you say, that all dark elves were so transformed. I'm not into simple, I like nuance and I hate "absolutes" in the Realms. Absolutes paint you into corners. To me that sentence can be interpreted to state that the word "corrupt" has meaning there - otherwise, why use it - and so "corruption" (i.e. being evil) is the touchstone for transformation, not simply racial identity.

In simple terms, we have three, current possible ways the Descent worked:

1. along racial lines (you were a dark elf and got transformed)
2. along alignment lines (you were an evil dark elf and got transformed)
3. along religious lines (you were a non-Seldarine worshipping dark elf and got transformed)

I note that the subsequent Lady Penitent novels appear to subscribe to the basic option 1, with their twist being that those without the taint of Wendonai or who had become her worshippers could be transformed back into dark elves. Given this, my view is that if you could be transformed back if you were one of the "good ones", why couldn't there have been a way to avoid the curse in the first place?

Again, I consider that there were ways to avoid the curse from the get-go. Steven Schend gave us the sharn as an "out" (with the rider that you couldn't un-Sharn yourself or you would be transformed so it would appear that he gives credence to the "everyone gets transformed" line). My view is that in unique and special ways, here and there, and in small numbers, some dark elf individuals and "important" bloodlines were given the "heads up" (likely by Sehanine) and provided with means to avoid the curse. I recall Ed letting me know that the spell "Spell Engine" could be used as a means of avoiding the Spellplague, so extrapolating from that, there must have been ways tied to the Weave and magic that could prevent the Curse from affecting you. But that's my view and clearly YMMV.

Enjoying the varied and interesting viewpoints.

-- George Krashos

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Originally posted by Fellfire

I believe it was in Elaine's Elves of Evermeet where it was stated that Araushnee was black-skinned and white-haired and was patron of those elves of a similar coloration leading one to believe that such phenotypes (?) existed before Corellon's Curse.

From the same source, IIRC, Ka'Narlist was drow-hued in hair, skin and eyes long before the Descent, though I seem to also remember older, darker powers being mentioned, presumably Ghaunadaur.

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