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Originally posted by Aldrick

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

Yes, Amn would be a good place for him, as that is a place where his mixed heritage would matter less than his personal wealth. Especially since you are leaning toward him being a merchant. Amn is a land of merchants after all, and so he would readily find a place there. That is not to say he would not still face racial prejudice, it just means that his wealth and mercantile success would override the worst of it.

However there is a downside to Amn, as well. Amn is very much anti-wizard. You should read Lands of Intrigue to get a feel for Amn. Here is some select information that I have taken from Lands of Intrigue for you. One relates to history, and an explanation for Amn's anti-wizard leanings, and the other is about the Cowled Wizards.

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The only major problems that erupted during these years involved evil wizards, as a number of wizards' schools and isolated conjurers unleashed many a monster or plague into the lands of Amn. While no one today remembers the specifics of these past actions, the consequences live on: Wizards in Amn are viewed with suspicion at best, and persecuted at worst. Amnian folklore and aphorisms have a distinctly anti-wizard bent.

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[quote]That which people do not understand, they fear Given all the magical mishaps and evils let loose by wizards in Amn's history, is it any wonder that wizards are censured, shunned, and nearly outlawed there?

The Cowled Wizards were originally created by Alisar of Esmeltaran over a century ago to preserve magical lore in a realm that might benefit from this knowledge despite the peoples' fears. The wizards saw themselves as saviors of the Art and as agents of Azuth and Deneir. Moving underground, they became librarians of lore and teachers to those with potential. The Cowled Wizards also kept an eye on foreign wizards passing through Amn, keeping rogue wizards in line to protect Amnians and the Cowled Wizards' secrecy.

In organization, each cell of Cowled Wizards is isolated in a town or city, and the highest-level mage of the settlement rules. As long as politics do not pit one cell leader against the first and still largest Athkatlan cell and its leader (Khollynnus Paac, a textiles merchant and 17th-level wizard), local Cowled Wizards can meet others in Athkatla in secret rooms beneath Jann Lane. One may learn here of contacts who can lead a person to distant Cowled Wizard cells, to join or communicate with the wizards there.

By day, the Cowled Wizards work as merchants, booksellers, herbalists, apothecaries, or the like. In meetings, they wear their cowled hoods and robes (based on those of graduates of the School of Wonder, destroyed decades ago). Any Cowled Wizards can share his identity with family, local wizards, or correspondents, but the cowls allow anonymity if desired. Most Cowled Wizards know only two or three other members' true names.

Many wonder why the Cowled Wizards remain in Amn at all, given the relative intolerance to magic there. Most in the membership simply don't want to abandon their homeland. Others are firmly entrenched among Amn's many power structures, and still others believe they must keep Azuth's faith and Mystra's magic alive here.

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If your character is going to spend time in Amn, then he is going to have interactions with the Cowled Wizards. His open practice of magic would not be tolerated, and it would be something that he would have to hide. If he decides to live in Amn, he should consider becoming a member of the Cowled Wizards. However, I doubt he would rise high within their ranks due to his race, despite his... unique talents. The exception to this rule is if he manages to develop a great deal of power and influence within the organization, which would allow him to essentially stomp on those who seek to oppress him. However, him acting in such a way would seem to go against the characters nature, and so as a result; I would suspect that he would remain a low ranking member.

He may have some legitimate friends within the organization, though, individuals that would have his back when the chips are down. One or two individuals that would respect him, and would consequently look out for his best interests.

Being a Cowled Wizard also works out well for him, as it allows him to effectively be part of an "underground railroad" type organization... an organization that would protect other wizards from persecution. This could very much be used to appeal to his good nature; doing the right thing, not really receiving credit or recognition or praise for it, but doing it anyway.

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Originally posted by Fellfire

8 charisma? That is not much more attractive than a two headed circus freak. Theres an idea. They could talk to each other, like a ettin. Ingame, I wouldn't throw two coppers to an 8 CHA whore. Maybe "freak-cabana-boy" would be a better class.

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

also the activities of the Cowled Wizard, especially taking down evil wizards. i dont think he does anything for the recognition, he is to seflish for that. Other people come last in his priorities. He simply wants to exchange what he makes with what he sees valuable with other people, and he will uphold the strongest oath of vengance for people who threaten that code. He treats people as he would treat his stock, "there is no harm in checking the quality of an item and if its broken dont invest effort on it".

if there is any charcter he is most inspired by its Howard Roark from the Fountianhead, one of my favorite books.

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

well in 5e they say that charisma is a combination of your personality and looks and "bravado". he might have magnificent looks but it might never cash out because he usually wears chain mail and is not looked for his features and will have no social graces and a quite personality. thats a CHA 8, secondly cha 8 doesnt mean circus freak, it means below average that you can notice it. think some like Sheldon from Big Bang Theory hes not an ugly guy, in fact he can be quite stylish but he is akward and wierd that he is probably a 7 CHA.

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Originally posted by Aldrick

Wow. Eight Charisma. That is pretty tough. And to top it all off, you want him to be very attractive. This means you are dumping all the penalties onto the social aspect of charisma.

I would say that being introverted / shy is not enough to justify a negative penalty in charisma. That falls well within the domain of normal, and you stand outside of what is normal. To top it all off you also want your character to be physically attractive.

Since you are dumping all of the weight of the penalty onto the social / personality side of charisma, I would rule that you should select some type of disorder or disability that your character faces.

Here is a list of personality disorders:
Antisocial Personality Disorder

Avoidant Personality Disorder

Borderline Personality Disorder

Dependent Personality Disorder

Histrionic Personality Disorder

Dissociative Identity Disorder

Narcissistic Personality Disorder

Obsessive-Compulsive Personality Disorder

Paranoid Personality Disorder

Schizoid Personality Disorder

Schizotypal Personality Disorder

Alternatively, he could have issues that impair social function because he has an Autism Spectrum Disorder.

I would look over the disorders I listed, and select one of them that best suits your character. Then create a list of character traits that can be quickly be referred to by both you and the DM during play. For example, if you select Borderline Personality Disorder your traits could be: Fear of Abandonment, Unstable Sense of Self, Impulsive Behavior, Secretive Self-Mutilation, Paranoid Thoughts, Emotionally Unstable, and Frequent Angry Outbursts.

If I were the DM, I would give you an XP bonus for playing them out. Consistently not playing them out, or only playing them out in situations where it does not matter, would result in a readjustment of your ability scores to get your CHA to 10--so you have no penalty.

It is important to keep in mind that it is called a penalty for a reason. The fact that you want your character to be physically attractive on top of having a negative charisma penalty basically makes matters even worse.

I also think you need to justify having an eight charisma merchant. That is extremely difficult to pull off, considering the fact that he is required to actively deal with the public. He might be a merchant, but it is hard to see his business as being successful as he certainly lacks the social ability to make the necessary connections and contacts to pull it off... to say nothing about the racial bias he is already up against.

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Originally posted by Aldrick

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar


if there is any charcter he is most inspired by its Howard Roark from the Fountianhead, one of my favorite books.

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From what you wrote there, it sounds like Antisocial Personality Disorder might fit well with the concept. Character Traits: Disregard for Social Norms, Deceitful, Aggressive Behavior When Challenged, Reckless Disregard for Others, and Lack of Remorse for Those He Hurts.

Those personality traits would actually serve him well as a merchant, and would push him toward success. This could perhaps be a way for him to overcome his lack of personal charisma and charm.

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

secondly i think of him having a "social disorder" of basically the main character from the Fountainhead, he has to have his way - no matter what, he doesnt care for most people's opinions, almost completely oblivious to other people, incredibly self centered and narsastic (spends 30 minutes looking at himself a day), historic personality (thinks he is there to create a grand epoch in the world(which he might do)). in that sense his charisma is low, on the other with a certain type of people, those who do understand him, he is well adjusted and very likable.

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Originally posted by Aldrick

Charisma does indeed represent all of those things... combined together. You are saying that your character is far above average in attractiveness, but just happens to be shy and slightly socially awkward. This basically translates to 10 Charisma--no penalty.

The fact that your character actually has a penalty for his Charisma AND he is physically attractive? This means you are basically throwing double duty on the social / personality aspect of your character.

Essentially what you are saying is that you are going to focus only on half of what Charisma is supposed to represent, and then take only the most minor and easily avoided of all penalties for the other half.

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Originally posted by Aldrick



As I said in my previous post, I think Antisocial Personality Disorder fits him rather nicely. Based on what you have written here I would also add: Grandiose Sense of Self-Importance, Arrogant, Must Be the Center of Attention, and Uses Attractiveness in Sexually Provocative Ways.

All of these things could help him actually be a better merchant, which helps him overcome some of his natural shortcomings. Of course, it is not going to make him widely popular or well liked... which is the point of a charisma penalty, anyway. However, it will give him power, influence, and wealth.

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

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Originally posted by Fellfire

Duskblades were an ancient order of fighter/mage elves predating the bladesingers. They differed in that they fought decked out in plate-mail. They were known as Nael'kerym (duskblade) or sometimes H' ei' Yal Drathinmalee' (steel-dancers.) However, whatever remains left of the Vyshaan in present-day Faerun would likely be even more intolerant than the Eldreth Veluuthra. I imagine that whatever is left of these ancient families are in fact, the most militant among them.

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something intresting can be that he has to uncover the tradition of the Duskblades to further his discplne, thus having to deal with some people who might oppose him.

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Originally posted by Aldrick

[quote]Originally posted by Xal Valzar

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Originally posted by Fellfire

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

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Originally posted by Fellfire

Duskblades were an ancient order of fighter/mage elves predating the bladesingers. They differed in that they fought decked out in plate-mail. They were known as Nael'kerym (duskblade) or sometimes H' ei' Yal Drathinmalee' (steel-dancers.) However, whatever remains left of the Vyshaan in present-day Faerun would likely be even more intolerant than the Eldreth Veluuthra. I imagine that whatever is left of these ancient families are in fact, the most militant among them.

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something intresting can be that he has to uncover the tradition of the Duskblades to further his discplne, thus having to deal with some people who might oppose him.

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These are not mearly ''some people'' they are amongst the most bigoted, most ancient, and most dangerous remnants of an ''elven-only'' dynasty that has lasted for millenia

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Originally posted by Aldrick

Xal Valzar -

Have you run your character concept by your DM and has it received approval? Obviously, I cannot speak for him or her, but in my view there is no way this would fly. You are basically telling me that you want to play a character with a charisma penalty, but not actually have any penalty associated with it. What is more, you not only do not want a penalty associated with charisma, but you want your character to be extremely attractive as well--essentially ignoring half of what charisma represents.

My suggestion to you is to give your character 10 Charisma, and save yourself a headache.

Basically what you are telling everyone is that you want to create a character that is super strong, super smart, super graceful, who has a handful of social problems, but not so many social problems that it is actually an issue. To top it all off he should be a successful merchant, who is highly skilled in magic to the point that he can even walk up to skilled archmages and dress them down for their poor technique (and be right about it). He should also be a magnificent swordsman as well. He should be able to do this all the while being a social outcast even among other social outcasts due to his heritage, and a heroic figure like Drizzt.

Am I leaving anything out?

You are basically setting yourself up for failure. What I am essentially hearing from you is that you want to create a perfect character who is never challenged by anything or anyone. If he is challenged in any way, they are small challenges that only mildly inhibit him--not real challenges that drive a story. A story such as this follows a predictable path, where the character faces a few obstacles, overcomes them due to his greatly superior abilities and then wins. The outcome is never in doubt, only the path to victory.

The reality is that, if you actually have a decent DM who knows how to tell a story, your character is going to be severely challenged at every turn. Your character will have weaknesses revealed, and every known weakness exploited. He might fail. He might die. Success is not certain. He will struggle constantly, until the story reaches some sort of conclusion. If he survives then he will have changed significantly from where he started.

You are starting play with an end goal in mind. You are saying, 'This is who I want my character to be, and this is what he is going to be like forever and ever.' If you have a decent DM that should never happen. You should focus your character on where he is starting at, and not where he is ending up at...because you do not know where he is going to end up.

My biggest concern for you is that you are going to start the game with this "perfect character" in mind, and then you are going to get angry at your DM for stomping all over it. When in reality, that is just how you drive a story forward.

Anyway, that is just my two cents.

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Originally posted by Fellfire

Do you mean to say that you intend to lie, bribe or attempt to disguise yourself from the most powerful behind-the-scenes movers-and-shakers elves in the Realms?

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Originally posted by Aldrick

Xal Valzar -
He should be able to do this all the while being a social outcast even among other social outcasts due to his heritage, and a heroic figure like Drizzt.

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Originally posted by Fellfire

By the simple act of claiming eleven nobility, do you not think that they would not move mountains in determining your pedigree down to the lowliest goblin squatting in the muck?

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Originally posted by Fellfire

Or they could simply imprison you for defiling the royal line and torture you until you sing like a canary, or for the rest of your natural life. Whichever comes first. (I have 5 platinum trade-bars on the former) Do not think they are not willing or capable. They did manage to assassinate King Zaor.

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

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Originally posted by Fellfire

Or they could simply imprison you for defiling the royal line and torture you until you sing like a canary, or for the rest of your natural life. Whichever comes first. (I have 5 platinum trade-bars on the former) Do not think they are not willing or capable. They did manage to assassinate King Zaor.

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no, Kymil Ninsine sent an assasin for king Zaor, i dont know what Kymil has in mind but im not sure the Veltuurha will side with him as he has it out for Moon Elfs a bit and some of the leaders of Veltuurha are moon elfs. also a Drow house was able to drive them out of Comythar.
i think theyl probably be swept under thier own prejudices adn think that i must be a full elf and realize they told my thier secretes when its too late.

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Originally posted by Fellfire

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Originally posted by Xal Valzar

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Originally posted by Fellfire

Or they could simply imprison you for defiling the royal line and torture you until you sing like a canary, or for the rest of your natural life. Whichever comes first. (I have 5 platinum trade-bars on the former) Do not think they are not willing or capable. They did manage to assassinate King Zaor.

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no, Kymil Ninsine sent an assasin for king Zaor, i dont know what Kymil has in mind but im not sure the Veltuurha will side with him as he has it out for Moon Elfs a bit and some of the leaders of Veltuurha are moon elfs. also a Drow house was able to drive them out of Comythar.
i think theyl probably be swept under thier own prejudices adn think that i must be a full elf and realize they told my thier secretes when its too late.

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You don't actually think Kymil Nimesin acted alone?

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Originally posted by Fellfire

Even with the Starym moonblade in hand, assuming you were not corrupted by it, what is to stop them from simply overpowering you (say a party of 5 20th level elven rangers, which they are easily capable of mustering) and taking from you everything that you hold dear?

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