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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
 Posted - 20 Feb 2004 : 22:39:35
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What are the capabilities and limitations of the permenancy spell? I've heard that it can give characters at-will powers, but what kind? Are there a set or rules or restrictions? Can powers granted by a permanency spell be dispelled, or are they...permanent? I've been thinking about linking an adventuring band with permanent Rary's telepathic bonds, but I don't want the first mage they battle to ruin all the linkages.
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But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 01:59:36
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Hmmm, do you have the Magic of Faerun sourcebook? I believe it was mentioned there...... Though I could be wrong.... I may have the spell for 2nd Edition.... Give me some time..... Nope sorry, I may have it in a sourcebook but I'm jsut too tired. Mayhaps another scribe will look through Magic of Faerun for you.....
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The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
Edited by - Shadowlord on 21 Feb 2004 02:03:25 |
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Icewolf
Learned Scribe
USA
214 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 02:56:50
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In 3rd edition at least, in the PHB spell description, Permenancy gives the recipient the power, permently. Such as the Detect Magic spell. It automatically acts as a permanent (You can't suppress it by normal means.
Also, the spell can only be dispelled by casters of a higher level than the caster WHEN HE CAST THE SPELL.
Edit: Furthermore, under Rary's spell description, it says that it can be made permanent with a wish spell, which kind of implies that Permanency simply won't do the trick. Though if you can convince the DM to let you do it (or you are the DM), I'm sure it would work. |
Edited by - Icewolf on 21 Feb 2004 02:59:56 |
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Arivia
Great Reader
Canada
2965 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 09:32:18
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| The permanency spell description has a list of what spells can be made permanent, and upon what. The list is quite well delineated, including the amount of XP that must be spent, and the minimum caster level needed. Icewolf was wrong on the next part; spells applied to the caster can only be dispelled by casters of a higher level, but spells made permanent on other creatures or items are as open to dispelling as anything else. Rary's telepathic bond can be made permanent with a permanency spell; it is listed in the "you, other creatures, or objects(as appropriate)" list at caster level 13th and with a cost of 2500 XP, with a footnote saying that one application of the pair of spells will only link two creatures. Perhaps an easier way to go would be rings granting the bond. |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 15:07:30
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| I might indeed use a ring, Arivia. If you think about it, an adventuring party-or any group-would have a huge advantage if they could communicate at will over any distance, which Rary's bond would allow them to do. This would eliminate the need for mere 25-word sendings. Can the other powers granted by permenancy, such as detect magic or tongues, just be dispelled? If so, is it even worth working on a character? Maybe, if they don't encounter-or fight-many mages, but its still a fair chunk of XP to spend. Magical items might be a more reliable investment. I was thinking of making a PrC that used a unique form of permenancy to gain new powers, in the form of spell-like abilities. Comments, queries, degrading remarks? |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
Edited by - Sourcemaster2 on 22 Feb 2004 23:00:45 |
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Bookwyrm
Great Reader
USA
4740 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 19:06:14
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| You know, if you just download the SRD, you get the 3e/3.5e (there's no difference) description of permanancy in its entirety. |
Hell hath no fury like all of Candlekeep rising in defense of one of its own.
Download the brickfilm masterpiece by Leftfield Studios! See this page for more. |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 21 Feb 2004 : 22:23:42
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| Ah Ha! Thats where it was! Oh, I'm sorry. I should have checked there first.... Damn System Reference Documents...... |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 15:54:09
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Senior Scribe Sourcemaster2,
This is a really great source for the permanency spell in the Realms.
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Permanency
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2
What are the capabilities and limitations of the permenancy spell? I've heard that it can give characters at-will powers, but what kind? Are there a set or rules or restrictions? Can powers granted by a permanency spell be dispelled, or are they...permanent? I've been thinking about linking an adventuring band with permanent Rary's telepathic bonds, but I don't want the first mage they battle to ruin all the linkages.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 17:08:37
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| Since Permanency is used to create magic items, when a Dispel Magic is cast on one, it only negates the magic for a short time. I would image that would also happen if someone were to dispel an effect made permanent on a person (the person is in effect a magic item). There are higher level spells that will permanently remove the magic such as Mordenkainen's Disjunction or Dispel Enchantment. To allow a 3rd level spell to permanently remove an 8th level spell effect sounds like the 3rd level spell should be much higher than level 3. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 17:12:57
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Seeker TheIriaeban,
I can appreciate what you mean, but the Dispel Magic spell is just the means to an end. Let me provide an example.
I use to box in the Army. At my best, a newer person coming into the ring for a bout was going to get hammered. That's just because I am better than them at that skill. In this case, the magic user has magical ability as well, he's just not as good at it as another. So, if a 25th level wizard casts permanency on 'x', then another lower level wizard comes along and tries to dispel the permanent effect, he has to make a caster level check which is a d20 + caster level, and if that value exceeds the caster level of the permanency spell, then it is gone. So, you can't get a noob wizard undoing Elminster's stuff essentially.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
Since Permanency is used to create magic items, when a Dispel Magic is cast on one, it only negates the magic for a short time. I would image that would also happen if someone were to dispel an effect made permanent on a person (the person is in effect a magic item). There are higher level spells that will permanently remove the magic such as Mordenkainen's Disjunction or Dispel Enchantment. To allow a 3rd level spell to permanently remove an 8th level spell effect sounds like the 3rd level spell should be much higher than level 3.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 22:59:29
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| In theory, a permanency spell is not affected by the dispel magic - the magic that is made permanent is. |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2018 : 23:01:08
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Master Mage,
That completely makes sense. I very much like the pedantic angle there. Quite apropos! 
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
In theory, a permanency spell is not affected by the dispel magic - the magic that is made permanent is.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 17:03:12
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| That brings up a new point: what if the permanency was the target for the dispel and not the magic that was made permanent. It has already been established that a dispel magic can be targeted like when it is used to temporarily cancel out the circle of power generated by a holy weapon being held by a paladin. What if the caster decided to target the permanency itself? Would the magic revert back to a duration? Would it revert to having charges? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2286 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2018 : 17:33:08
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Seeker Iriaeban,
Reading from the Pathfinder Core Rulebook (1st edition), it says:
quote:
You cannot cast these spells on other creatures. This application of permanency can be dispelled only by a caster of higher level than you were when you cast the spell.
It was referring to the spell list above. So, it seems that they are saying the permanency can be dispelled itself, as an affect upon the creature with it.
As to spells cast on other things, the PFCRB states:
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Spells cast on other targets are vulnerable to dispel magic as normal.
So, it seems you would get the same affect.
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
That brings up a new point: what if the permanency was the target for the dispel and not the magic that was made permanent. It has already been established that a dispel magic can be targeted like when it is used to temporarily cancel out the circle of power generated by a holy weapon being held by a paladin. What if the caster decided to target the permanency itself? Would the magic revert back to a duration? Would it revert to having charges?
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Permanency
