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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 15:36:00
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Lately I've become quite worried about only R.A. Salvatore, Ed Greenwood, and Erin Evans being contracted to write new FR novels. Now that the Sundering series is over, I was really hopeful that new contracts would go to other authors beside those three – not because I think they're bad, but because the diversity of writers and the sheer number of new novels being published per year has always been one of the biggest draws of the Realms for me. Unfortunately, that doesn't seem to be happening.
No matter what one might think of the quality of the novels during 2nd, 3rd, and 4th edition, no one could argue that there was quantity. And I'd love to read more novels by Erik Scott de Bie, Paul Kemp, Elaine Cunningham, Richard Lee Byers, and Richard Baker.
There are three factors I can think of that might explain the current situation:
1) Wizards has adopted a "less is more" strategy for the core handbooks and adventures. While I approve of that strategy where sourcebooks are concerned, I'm worried that they have decided to extend it to novels as well.
2) The number of people currently working on D&D at Wizards is apparently the lowest it's ever been. Paizo Publishing has more people working on their Pathfinder line than WotC has working on D&D. Right now the whole team is understandably focused on the upcoming release of 5th edition, but I'm worried that the D&D team, even if it wanted to publish a lot of novels, simply no longer has enough staff to manage the publishing process of a large quantity of novels. Also, the release of 5th edition has been staggered over several months, so even if they do intend to start publishing more novels once 5th edition is fully released, it'll still be long months before they can turn their attention to that.
3) R.A. Salvatore is writing new FR novels at a faster pace than he did before. Given that he's by far the best-selling author of the FR novel line, it would make sense that Wizards has decided to publish as many new Drizzt novels as possible, even if it comes at the expense of other authors not getting to write new novels.
Thoughts?
EDIT: Changed thread's title so it is more legible.
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Edited by - Krafus on 08 Aug 2014 13:52:39
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Brian R. James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
1098 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 16:03:21
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Troy Denning is also contracted to write additional novels for the Realms, but your point still stands. James Wayatt was the most recent manager of the novels department, but was transferred to the Magic: The Gathering side of the house last month. It's unclear who his replacement is, if anyone.
The reduction of staff in the D&D R&D team is also cause for concern. WotC has so few full-time staffers on hand that they are forced to contract third-party companies to design product for them now (as they did recently by contracting Kobold Press to design the two Tyranny of Dragons adventures). Now, working with a third-party is not inherently bad, after-all I'm a freelance game designer myself! but it does raise concerns about who is overseeing the quality of these products. Many of us have raised serious lore concerns about the Tyranny of Dragons plotline, for example. |
Brian R. James - Freelance Game Designer
Follow me on Twitter @brianrjames |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 16:17:35
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Paul Kemp posted on FB a while back that he wouldn't be writing any FR novels in the immediate future. As I understand it, the impasse between him and WotC was in the context of remuneration. Anecdotally I understand that WotC don't pay their novelists brilliantly (Salvatore and Ed and Erin may be the exceptions - who knows ...) and that this issue has been going on for a while now.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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rapunzel77
Acolyte
29 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 18:33:23
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| I really hope that more books get written. I admit I'm not a gamer (I have never played D&D although I'd like to play but I'll probably have to wait until I get my Master's degree). Instead, I'm a book nerd and I was introduced to the Forgotten Realms through the Dark Elf books. Since that time, I've read other FR authors and I want to see more novels written and more lore produced. That is what I love the most about this campaign--the rich world/history/lore. So, hopefully more authors are contracted or some of the previous ones return (Elaine Cunningham for instance) to write more novels. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 21:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Brian R. James
The reduction of staff in the D&D R&D team is also cause for concern. WotC has so few full-time staffers on hand that they are forced to contract third-party companies to design product for them now (as they did recently by contracting Kobold Press to design the two Tyranny of Dragons adventures). Now, working with a third-party is not inherently bad, after-all I'm a freelance game designer myself! but it does raise concerns about who is overseeing the quality of these products. Many of us have raised serious lore concerns about the Tyranny of Dragons plotline, for example.
Not trying to be snarky, here... But what are employees of an RPG company doing if not producing RPG material?  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 21:57:52
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Wooly some are doing finance and customer service, website development and of course there are supervisors. It has been noticed over the years staff reductions at WotC appear to be constant.
Part of it might be like other companies have done, outsource jobs for a push as opposed to having a full time person that at times gets paid during lulls of demand for products.
Heck the US Military and US State department hired contractors to fight battles for them, limited period employment can be less costly in the short term.
As to the OT, too many writers sometimes caused continuity problems. In some ways it might make sense to used authors that well know the realms. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
Edited by - Kentinal on 06 Aug 2014 21:59:02 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 06 Aug 2014 : 23:24:04
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More PSK and ESdB, I say! Well, I like them all actually. But I cant abide elves (sorry, Elaine), or Elminster (sorry, Ed), or Drizzt (sorry, RAS), or zombies (sorry, RLB) ... geez, I kinda begin to wonder why I even read FR fiction these days, lol.
EME is also a fine author. What can I say? Im a sucker for planeslore, so much so that I will even tolerate those ridiculous 4E Hellboy tieflings just to get my fix. I sorta miss old Jeff Grubb, Kate Novak, Troy Denning, David Cook, Monte, and Cristopher Rowe (I love genasi, too, lol).
The Realms are much diminished without continuing lore from these - and many other - authors. I hearken back to the days when the world was a collaborative, cooperative, dynamic effort. Not a corporate-bottom-line effort. Not blaming WotC for wanting to make money (a business, not a charity), but I often shake my head at companies who consistently stage their operations so overcautiously that they willfully turn away from creating opportunities for sustained growth and revenue. Oh well, three authors better than no authors? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 01:01:58
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| Pretty sure it's Hasbro that pulls the evil corporate overlord deal and not Wizards. I could well be incorrect in that though, been a year or three since I read whatever article that's from. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 04:15:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Pretty sure it's Hasbro that pulls the evil corporate overlord deal and not Wizards. I could well be incorrect in that though, been a year or three since I read whatever article that's from.
There clearly have been reports to that effect. If over all profit does not meet goals, all units have to cut expenses (even the ones that performed well). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 13:41:07
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Thanks to everyone who would like to see me (or anyone in my position) off the bench and back in the game.
As I've noted previously, I hope you guys also realize that most of us novelists write things other than Forgotten Realms, and it's a pretty good bet that if you enjoy our work in the Realms, you'll enjoy our stories set elsewhere, too. So it would be awesome if you'd give those a try. |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 14:51:21
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Thanks to all who answered. Now that I think on it, the relative paucity of new novels is even more strange given that FR is the core setting of 5th edition. At the very least, one would expect to see a standalone novel or a trilogy connected to the upcoming Tyranny of Dragons adventure.
Kentinal:
quote:
As to the OT, too many writers sometimes caused continuity problems.
If occasional continuity problems are the price to pay for having a large number of novels, I'm okay with that. Besides, such problems can be fixed later on, and it's not hard to justify in a world with plenty of very powerful magic and spellcasters. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 16:03:29
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| You don't have to fix problems if you make an effort not to create them in the first place. I am of the opinion that looser standards of continuity on new content will result in continuity glitches being ignored later... If you don't care enough to keep it straight initially, why will you care about fixing it, later? |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 18:41:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Paul Kemp posted on FB a while back that he wouldn't be writing any FR novels in the immediate future. As I understand it, the impasse between him and WotC was in the context of remuneration. Anecdotally I understand that WotC don't pay their novelists brilliantly (Salvatore and Ed and Erin may be the exceptions - who knows ...) and that this issue has been going on for a while now.
-- George Krashos
I'm going to keep my profanity to myself, but I'm very upset about this. We had to wait YEARS for The Godborn!! While it was an excellent novel, it left a lot of loose ends, especially given the recent novel developments with Shade. I want more Erevis Cale stories. I want to at least be updated on most of Kemp's characters (Azriim, Tamlin, Riven/Mask, Magadon, Mephistopheles, etc.)
I'm a longtime RAS fan, but you could make an argument for Paul Kemp as being the best writer FR has ever had. WOTC would be stupid to let him take his talents elsewhere, if it can be avoided. |
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1288 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 20:16:39
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| What I would do for another Jeff Grubb novel set in the Realms. If only... |
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charger_ss24
Learned Scribe
USA
108 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 20:31:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Paul Kemp posted on FB a while back that he wouldn't be writing any FR novels in the immediate future. As I understand it, the impasse between him and WotC was in the context of remuneration. Anecdotally I understand that WotC don't pay their novelists brilliantly (Salvatore and Ed and Erin may be the exceptions - who knows ...) and that this issue has been going on for a while now.
-- George Krashos
I'm going to keep my profanity to myself, but I'm very upset about this. We had to wait YEARS for The Godborn!! While it was an excellent novel, it left a lot of loose ends, especially given the recent novel developments with Shade. I want more Erevis Cale stories. I want to at least be updated on most of Kemp's characters (Azriim, Tamlin, Riven/Mask, Magadon, Mephistopheles, etc.)
I'm a longtime RAS fan, but you could make an argument for Paul Kemp as being the best writer FR has ever had. WOTC would be stupid to let him take his talents elsewhere, if it can be avoided.
I second this. I am a huge RAS fan as well, but I was instantly hooked on Paul's FR novels of Erevis Cale and company after reading "Shadowbred". |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 07 Aug 2014 : 23:05:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Seravin
What I would do for another Jeff Grubb novel set in the Realms. If only...
Oh gods, yes... Or a new Elaine novel. Even if it didn't address anything from Songs & Swords, I'd love a new Elaine Realms novel. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 01:52:52
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Yeah, I am quite upset that we are not seeing contracts given out to established writers and chances given to new ones.
The honest truth is, I no longer buy DnD products. I just buy novels. And I only buy Hardcover novels of certain authors. And right now, none of them seem to have contracts.
If Wizards does not want to pony up the dough to pay authors, they should make the line available to other booksellers to print Forgotten realms and pay authors.
But no, I suspect they would rather kill it than let others play in it. |
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jornan
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 02:11:22
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RLB. I totally get that you write other novels, but I've been reading FR books for 20 years now....I'm pretty invested in the world, the characters, the story. I want to know about what happens to the Brotherhood of the Griffon next...
On that note, what is basing the decision for what authors stay? Why Erin Evans over RLB? The last two BotG books have a better amazon sales ranking than the first two Brimstone Angels books.
I don't want WotC to just pump out Realms books. To be honest I would rather they take their time and get quality authors telling quality stories every two months than a slew of books that are full of continuity errors or have no place in the FR timeline (Dawnbringer).
Hopefully E3 will have some reveals, but the silence of many of the FR alumni doesn't bode well. I was really hoping 5th ed was going to bring new life to the Realms by bringing back the people who helped shape it to begin with. |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 02:42:18
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quote:
Originally posted by jornan
On that note, what is basing the decision for what authors stay? Why Erin Evans over RLB? The last two BotG books have a better amazon sales ranking than the first two Brimstone Angels books.
I doubt that the situation was "Ok, we only have money for 1 author and have to choose between RLB or EE".
Most likely it's the same situation as with PSK, RLB is at a point in his writing career that he deserves more money than what WotC is willing to pay him. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 03:48:21
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| Hopefully once 5E gets into full swing we'll start seeing the return of many of our favorite authors, Volo's Guides, etc. My initial guess is WotC wanting to hammer out a rock solid start to 5E, get their budget increased from all the awesome and go from there. Gods I hope that's the goal anyways. ;) |
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hobbitfan
Learned Scribe
USA
164 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 04:14:46
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I assume that we will be seeing new novels on down the line.
As with the RPG side of things, we have to wait for WOTc to tell us something more....
Edit: Sorry if my response seemed a little jaded. I'm a little dispirited about the silence from WOTC about the 5E Realms well, anything really.
I'm excited the 5E books are coming out soon though! :)
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Edited by - hobbitfan on 08 Aug 2014 04:36:10 |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 14:26:18
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jprnan, I get that you are more interested in seeing more Realms stories from guys like me, and I can assure you, I'm interested in writing them. But I do think it's true of many readers that if they like a writer's storytelling in one universe, they're likely to enjoy his storytelling in other settings as well. Which is all I was trying to say.
I honestly can't answer your question or anybody's question about what the folks at WotC are thinking or planning and how they're making their decisions. I'm just a freelancer, not an employee, and thus not privy to whatever's being discussed inside the company.
Wooly, if strict adherence to continuity is the overriding goal, then the fewer fiction writers (and game designers, for that matter) that you have working on the Realms, the better. But that comes at the cost of not getting a whole heck of a lot of new Realms product. And it may be worth noting that continuity errors can occur even when a series is being written by a single author. The Sherlock Holmes and Nero Wolfe series are cases in point. |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 15:27:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Paul Kemp posted on FB a while back that he wouldn't be writing any FR novels in the immediate future. As I understand it, the impasse between him and WotC was in the context of remuneration. Anecdotally I understand that WotC don't pay their novelists brilliantly (Salvatore and Ed and Erin may be the exceptions - who knows ...) and that this issue has been going on for a while now.
-- George Krashos
I'm going to keep my profanity to myself, but I'm very upset about this. We had to wait YEARS for The Godborn!! While it was an excellent novel, it left a lot of loose ends, especially given the recent novel developments with Shade. I want more Erevis Cale stories. I want to at least be updated on most of Kemp's characters (Azriim, Tamlin, Riven/Mask, Magadon, Mephistopheles, etc.)
I'm a longtime RAS fan, but you could make an argument for Paul Kemp as being the best writer FR has ever had. WOTC would be stupid to let him take his talents elsewhere, if it can be avoided.
Could not agree more. This seems like a really unfathomable decision by WOTC. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 17:59:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Wooly, if strict adherence to continuity is the overriding goal, then the fewer fiction writers (and game designers, for that matter) that you have working on the Realms, the better. But that comes at the cost of not getting a whole heck of a lot of new Realms product. And it may be worth noting that continuity errors can occur even when a series is being written by a single author. The Sherlock Holmes and Nero Wolfe series are cases in point.
I don't agree. We had a continuity traffic cop in 2E, and we had a buttload of authors playing in the sandbox -- prolly more than at any other time in the setting's history.
Granted, there were still glitches here and there, but those are minor compared to some of the issues of 3E and later, when there was no traffic cop and when, in my opinion, there was a deliberate decision to not worry overly much about continuity.
It's also easier to maintain continuity when you're not blowing up the setting with every second book. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:11:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
jprnan, I get that you are more interested in seeing more Realms stories from guys like me, and I can assure you, I'm interested in writing them. But I do think it's true of many readers that if they like a writer's storytelling in one universe, they're likely to enjoy his storytelling in other settings as well. Which is all I was trying to say.
I honestly can't answer your question or anybody's question about what the folks at WotC are thinking or planning and how they're making their decisions. I'm just a freelancer, not an employee, and thus not privy to whatever's being discussed inside the company.
Wooly, if strict adherence to continuity is the overriding goal, then the fewer fiction writers (and game designers, for that matter) that you have working on the Realms, the better. But that comes at the cost of not getting a whole heck of a lot of new Realms product. And it may be worth noting that continuity errors can occur even when a series is being written by a single author. The Sherlock Holmes and Nero Wolfe series are cases in point.
Thanks for the taking the time to comment here. I will definitely give you non Realms stuff a try, but I still need to read everything you wrote for the Realms. I was just looking through your Wikipedia page, and I didn't even realize you wrote Queen of the Depths! I loved the whole "Priests" series, and that book was no exception.
The Reaver was a fantastic book, and the Haunted Lands trilogy was brilliant. I would prefer that you be the person to handle the 5e portrayal of Thay, and Szass Tam's downfall (since that seems inevitable). It would be awesome to see all your recent novels come together. But we'll see what happens. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 19:41:10
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| It is worrying that there has been no news about the novel lineup. But I promised myself that I would reserve judgement until GenCon since that would be the ideal time for them to announce the upcoming novel lineup. But again, the fact that we haven't heard a peep about the novels is worrying. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 20:09:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
It is worrying that there has been no news about the novel lineup. But I promised myself that I would reserve judgement until GenCon since that would be the ideal time for them to announce the upcoming novel lineup. But again, the fact that we haven't heard a peep about the novels is worrying.
We also haven't heard anything about when we'll get a 5E FR campaign book. I personally don't think we'll see that many novels until around that book's release date. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 20:55:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
It is worrying that there has been no news about the novel lineup. But I promised myself that I would reserve judgement until GenCon since that would be the ideal time for them to announce the upcoming novel lineup. But again, the fact that we haven't heard a peep about the novels is worrying.
We also haven't heard anything about when we'll get a 5E FR campaign book. I personally don't think we'll see that many novels until around that book's release date.
Good point. Does anyone remember how things went during the last edition switches? |
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Richard Lee Byers
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
1814 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 21:08:52
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Wooly, for what it's worth, I do agree that continuity is a desirable thing in a shared world and that a continuity cop is a desirable job for somebody to be doing.
Lilianviaten, thanks for the kind words. I would love to do more with Thay and (as you suspected) start crossing over some of my various FR characters and story lines. (What's Taegan Nightwind doing these days?) Fingers crossed that I eventually get the chance. |
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zenmichael
Seeker
USA
52 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 23:16:46
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| I'm kind of starting to get worried about EVERYTHING. What happens if the 5E core books fail? Or even just do mediocre? Does D&D just throw in the towel, wish Paizo the best? Are we close to that as a real possibility? |
Realms Remembered: A Chronological Read-Through (DR) of Forgotten Realms Fiction
http://www.youtube.com/rolereviewsal |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 08 Aug 2014 : 23:24:22
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quote:
Originally posted by zenmichael
I'm kind of starting to get worried about EVERYTHING. What happens if the 5E core books fail? Or even just do mediocre? Does D&D just throw in the towel, wish Paizo the best? Are we close to that as a real possibility?
Do not worry about things that might not occur. However if Hasbro tells WotC to end D&D, there are others like Paizo that clearly would step in. Others certainly can step in as well. After all WotC (pre the Hasbro take over) stepped in to save TSR from the printers. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Concerned about only three authors writing novels
