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Jürgen Hubert
Acolyte
Germany
33 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Apr 2018 : 19:45:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Well, first off, The Creator Races - Sarrukh, Batrachi, Aearee, Fey, and Mankind - were EVERWHERE in the days of Thunder, mostly because that was before FR's Pangea - the proto-continent Merrouroboros - split apart and became the continents we know. Thus, there should be evidence of all five still in the True World.
A good point. The Sarrukh probably weren't around in force, since Maztica was the continent to which the couatl fled from the Sarrukh, according to p. 55 of Serpent Kingdoms:
"As the sarrukh of Okoth increasingly embraced their darker natures, a few dissenters, despairing of their kindred’s push toward evil, broke off from the main group. They entreated Jazirian, a fragment of the World Serpent, for succor, and it responded by transforming them into couatls. A bitter war ensued, but the couatls held their own against the more numerous Okothian sarrukh until Merrshaulk, a darker fragment of the World Serpent, fi nally slew Jazirian. At that point, the couatls were forced to fl ee to Abeir-Toril, where they eventually settled in Maztica. The god Qotal embraced them as his divine minions, and they acknowledged him as Jazirian reborn. Most remained there, but a few couatls eventually returned to Faerûn to deal with the fell legacies of their kindred in the Jungles of Chult. This splinter group embraced Ubtao as its patron deity."
Can anyone guesstimate when this happened? Serpent Kingdoms doesn't say. It must have happened before -24,000 DR though, since that's when some couatl start showing up as Ubtao's minions.
This also implies that at least one of the Maztican gods is ancient. It's possible that he was worshiped by other races long before humans started to do so, and the same may be true for other Maztican gods. It should be pointed out that the "Golden Age of Payit" lasted from c. 400 DR to 1000 DR (according to the Grand History of the Realms), and that was the olded "civilization of record" in the Maztica Boxed Set - so what happened before that?
On the other hand, the Aearee explicitly fled to Maztica, and their presumed descendants - the aaracokra - still live there and regard it as their homeland. I am envisioning ruins of "cloud cities" on top of the tallest mountains where few humans ever dare go (and remember, Maztica has a lot of mountain ranges higher than 15,000'!) - that would make for some awesome aesthetics! Does anyone have any good ideas, references, images for what these mountaintop cities might look like?
And concerning the Batrachi, I found [url=https://web.archive.org/web/20151102221533/http://community.wizards.com/content/forum-topic/2994836]this bit of apocrypha[/url]:
"Nadezhda was a great forested region (in modern day Maztica) once populated by human tribes which migrated across the Strait of Lopango to flee enslavement by the Yuan-ti of Mhairshaulk. Their respite was short lived, however, as the human tribes were quickly infiltrated and eventually supplanted by batrachi doppelgangers. Nadezhda ultimately fell to Aearee expansion as that race moved into the region."
Furthermore, the [url=http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Doppelganger]Forgotten Realms wiki entry on doppelgangers[/url] states:
"They were believed to be an artificial race, created by the Creator Race known as the batrachi.[citation needed]"
Not exactly "verified canon", but it is intriguing, isn't it?
As a side note, I would love to explore how doppelgangers fit into Maztican culture at some point. According to Aztec beliefs, donning the ceremonial disguise of a deity caused to become that deity in some way - they didn't see "masks" as "falsehoods" like European culture does. So maybe doppelgangers wearing the guise of a human are considered to "become" to a certain degree, and might be accepted even if others know that that person is really a doppelganger...
quote:
I don't think we need to take the first two myths literally - we have evidence of at least two previous, possibly human, civilizations right there. The 'mud men' sound more like neanderthals to me. In fact, the first thing that jumped to mind was orcs, because they were 'rough featured'. But I dismissed that since the last thing we want is the tropes found everywhere else. We could possibly substitute another 'bestial' type of humanoid - I'm going with Hobgoblins down in Katashaka for that reason. Or maybe even create something unique (or semi-unique) to the region that would be Maztica's version of orcs, like maybe the Lossal (they were orc-baboon hybrids in GH, but we can make them just a primitive normal race in FR). In fact, any sort of 'apish' race would work for our 'rough featured' people (saying they were actual mud is a bit literal, I think - N.American natives had similar myths, and the mud was baked into clay, but some were undercooked and some were overcooked, which is how they explained races {ethnicities}). If you want to keep the 'shifting features' aspect of it, go with the Lagahoo, which is from Central/South America. Its a shapeshifter from Trinidad. We could say they had their own civilization, but became cursed, and now there are only some monstrous types left.
For aesthetic reasons, I prefer to largely stick to "canonical" D&D creatures - but by preferrence the more obscure and exotic ones. This allows me to emphasize the alien environment of Maztica - while still making it recognizably D&D.
quote:
For the wood men, I am thinking elves, or rather, something very similar to elves but not quite, like Fey with an Aztec vibe. We may even want to make them slightly taller than humans, just to differentiate them from other elves (I am picturing something along the lines of WoW's Night Elves. This not only gives us the 'wood' connection, but it also connects them to a group that should have been there anyway - the Fey.
My version of the Maztican Feywild is largely populated by animal spirits - including the Animal Lords (the Cat Lord is already the patron deity of the Tabaxi, and Coyote is another obvious fit). This would fit the Mesoamerican vibe fairly well.
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Amazing how similar my thoughts on this have been. I have specifically used Lutum (from Spelljammer, sorry I can’t do links right now, I’m on my phone), which eventually degenerated into the semi mindless mudmen.
<looks up the Spelljammer MC7>
Perfect. Although I think I will ditch the "prefers to appear in female form" thing as a silly relic of a bygone age of gaming.
(And no, I have no problem with both doppelgangers and lutum being the "mudmen" of old - after all, the legends are pretty garbled over the ages anyway, so it's not surprising that two distinct things are conflated.)
quote:
For the men of wood, there was mention in Fires of Zatal that Maztica has treants that behave differently from normal treants (haughty, as if they are royalty).
Perhaps they used to rule over "plant kingdoms" in bygone ages? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2018 : 22:31:00
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I was trying to avoid the plant connection, myself, because I know Slevas was playing up that sort of thing in Katashaka (not me though, thus, your version works for me). The only reason why I suggested elvesa at all was because they are supposed to be a 'lost kingdom', so we wouldn't have to actually have any in the current era (unlike the treants, which are still around). I like the treants, thing - perhaps they are degenerated Voadkyn or Volodni (I never understood why D&D has both - so redundant!)
We can sort-of merge the other two (as Jürgen Hubert kind of proposed) - why can't the Lagahoo (I still think we should just use the name) be an experiment of the Batrachi? I mean, that's exactly the thing the 'Creator' Races were known for. Perhaps they found (or created) some kind of semi-alive 'mud' - like pools of proto-life (enzymes, proteins, etc. - "primordial soup") in pre-Sundering Maztica, and they were able to splice their own DNA into it, creating shape-shifting 'mudmen'. Then for whatever reason, sexual dimorphism occurred and the male and females became distinct (not hard to imagine among a race of shape-changers). Thus, we have the very stupid (practically non-intelligent) mudmen, and the females, who are tricksy (the Lutum).*
Now, being 'mud' (primal sludge is more like it), and fairly amorphous, they can take each other's shape, but there'd be almost no reason for the lutum to ever want to appear as a stupid mudman, and the mudman probably aren't clever enough to want to trick anyone by looking like a Lutum (and likely couldn't pull off the ruse for very long anyway - they're just too dumb).
I am using Eberron's Changelings down in Katashaka - a hold-over from the Batarchi (Dopplgangers) having interbred with humans untold millennia ago. But then again, I am heavily borrowing from that setting for a lot of things down there (giant ruins EVERYWHERE - you guys could even have some in maztica).
Speaking of giants, that makes me think of Dragons. Dragons had empires all over the place as well - I'm fairly certain Brian James had at least one placed in the Maztica region in his original (fanwork) version of the GHotR. Hmmmmm... just checked. NOPE... not that for that area. But at the same time, he named various regions after some dragons, but hen just has 'Maztica' and 'Katashaka' (and a few smaller 'realms') in the western lands - this gives me an idea...
What if all the 'Maztican gods' weren't gods at all? In my homebrew I said that the Maztican Gods were really just a 'humanized' (barely) version of the Draconic pantheon, but what if it was even less than that? What if all those names were just dragon-emperors that used to hold sway over this part of the world? A couple may have ascended and become gods later, but what if those are really just legends leftover form the time dragons ruled?
*EDIT:
Rereading what I just wrote, I realized this sounds a bit like what went on with the Dire Wraiths (Marvel Comics) - they are shapeshifters, and in their natural forms the males and females are radically different. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Apr 2018 22:36:15 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2018 : 22:46:03
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Hey, just concerning the Qotal raping Kiltzi thing. I went to amazon a few months back and just started to look for books on various mythologies that I could find on the cheap. I figured they could make good bedtime stories, and there are a ton of them that are like 50 cents or less. Anyway, one of them dealt with all the various south American mythologies, of which there is a LOT of variety. So, I found the original story that revolves around Qotal and his sister. Basically Tezcatlipoca (Quetzalcoatl's nemesis) gave Q some pulque (agave wine... so guessing something like tequila, but less refined), and it was the first time Q had ever drank. While hesitant at first, he soon started gulping it. Then he invites his sister over to share, because its fun. They get blitzed, and in their highly inebriated state.... start doing some non-brother/sisterly things. Then the drink wears off... and they realize what they did... and they're ashamed.
While I'm not saying that that's cool (its still very creepy, but its not cruel)... its definitely better than the way it was described in Maztica, wherein Qotal was jealous of human's love and then forced himself on his unwilling sister, who then goes crying to her mean brother just because she wants protection.
Qotal#146;s Seduction
For long ages peace ruled the world. Humans loved and laughed, and sometimes warred, and always they praised the might of their gods. Qotal heard the praise, and basked in it. Too, he saw the humans#146; joy, and he grew jealous.
He saw the pleasure the humans knew from love, and he craved a love of his own. Here he saw his sister Kiltzi, and he pursued her and took her for his wife. She struggled, knowing the wrongness of the act, but Qotal was master of all. He could not be stopped.
Finally sated, Qotal slumbered. He fell into a sleep that lasted for ages, and he would not awaken. Kiltzi, overcome by shame, fled from her eldest brother and took shelter with the banished Zaltec. And when Kiltzi fled, much of the love fled from the True World with her.
I know Seethyr also tried writing up a story called Diamond Eyes involving Shar that basically put him under her spell to make him consumed with his sister. But honestly, I think the two getting somehow "confused" and Qotal just leaving out of shame works. Kiltzi may spread the story that Qotal raped her just to save face to her followers since she didn't leave. To that end even, it could be something where Kiltzi even turns to Shar to "make her forget".
Also, from what I'm reading in that version of mythology stories, it does appear like Q is supposed to be the standup good guy. He doesn't want to harm anything. He hates picking flowers because it might cause them pain, etc... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2018 : 23:19:53
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey, just concerning the Qotal raping Kiltzi thing. I went to amazon a few months back and just started to look for books on various mythologies that I could find on the cheap. I figured they could make good bedtime stories, and there are a ton of them that are like 50 cents or less. Anyway, one of them dealt with all the various south American mythologies, of which there is a LOT of variety. So, I found the original story that revolves around Qotal and his sister. Basically Tezcatlipoca (Quetzalcoatl's nemesis) gave Q some pulque (agave wine... so guessing something like tequila, but less refined), and it was the first time Q had ever drank. While hesitant at first, he soon started gulping it. Then he invites his sister over to share, because its fun. They get blitzed, and in their highly inebriated state.... start doing some non-brother/sisterly things. Then the drink wears off... and they realize what they did... and they're ashamed.
While I'm not saying that that's cool (its still very creepy, but its not cruel)... its definitely better than the way it was described in Maztica, wherein Qotal was jealous of human's love and then forced himself on his unwilling sister, who then goes crying to her mean brother just because she wants protection.
At the risk of being hated (cries of "victim blaming!!!"), this sounds a bit like a girl who REALLY regrets having done something while she was drunk, and is now crying 'rape'. NO, I'm not condoning anyone's behavior here (these are myths anyway), but what I am trying to say is that it would be VERY EASY to merge the two versions via this argument.
So it goes like this...
Tezcatlipoca: "Hey Quetzal-head, I got some cool stuff here and YOU can't have none..."
Quetzalcoatl: {grabs drink from him} "This stuff's GOOD! {several hours later} *hic* hey, Kiltzi, c'mere... try this shtuff.. is good *hic*"
Kiltzi: "Mmmmm... tasty... and I am feeling a bit giddy {several hours later} Is it me, or is it getting hot in here..."
Quetzalcoatl: "tickle fight!" (it actual came out more like "tagla favava", but you get the idea)
{next morning}
Zaltec: "Hey guys! I'm going down to the arcade and thought maybe you'd... OH MY GOD!!!"
Kiltzi: {seeing her brother's look} "Ummmm... Quetzal made me do it!"
Tezcatlipoca: {rubbing hands together} "Mwah ha ha ha! I've just invented Brazillian porn!" 
So, its like, there are 'two sides' to everything. And I'm not defending or condoning Quetzalcoatl's (mythical) actions, but if your going out drinking with a feathered snake, things are bound to get a little weird, ya know? 
I believe there were also some 'Drunk Monkeys' involved in at least one version. NO... I'm not joking this time. Definitely some ebil little monkeys... who drink too much... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Apr 2018 20:19:50 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2018 : 23:43:18
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| As for ancient civilizations, I’d definitely think we have the bateachi and aeree but I still think that leaves thousands of years of dead space. I know that pre Otomi, there were the Zateca. That’s canon - but still not enough. I’d also posit that the scorpionfolk civilization is far older (also canon). There really just isn’t much in the humanity department but really should be. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 12:24:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Hey, just concerning the Qotal raping Kiltzi thing. I went to amazon a few months back and just started to look for books on various mythologies that I could find on the cheap. I figured they could make good bedtime stories, and there are a ton of them that are like 50 cents or less. Anyway, one of them dealt with all the various south American mythologies, of which there is a LOT of variety. So, I found the original story that revolves around Qotal and his sister. Basically Tezcatlipoca (Quetzalcoatl's nemesis) gave Q some pulque (agave wine... so guessing something like tequila, but less refined), and it was the first time Q had ever drank. While hesitant at first, he soon started gulping it. Then he invites his sister over to share, because its fun. They get blitzed, and in their highly inebriated state.... start doing some non-brother/sisterly things. Then the drink wears off... and they realize what they did... and they're ashamed.
While I'm not saying that that's cool (its still very creepy, but its not cruel)... its definitely better than the way it was described in Maztica, wherein Qotal was jealous of human's love and then forced himself on his unwilling sister, who then goes crying to her mean brother just because she wants protection.
At the risk of being hated (cries of "victim blaming!!!"), this sounds a bit like a girl who REALLY regrets having done something while she was drunk, and is now crying 'rape'. NO, I'm not condoning anyone's behavior here (these are myths anyway), but what I am trying to say is that it would be VERY EASY to merge the two versions via this argument.
So it goes like this...
Tezcatlipoca: "Hey Quetzal-head, I got some cool stuff here and YOU can'y have none..."
Quetzalcoatl: {grabs drink from him} "This stuff's GOOD! {several hours later} *hic* hey, Kiltzi, c'mere... try this shtuff.. is good *hic*"
Kiltzi: "Mmmmm... tasty... and I am feeling a bit giddy {several hours later} Is it me, or is it getting hot in here..."
Quetzalcoatl: "tickle fight!" (it actual came out more like "tagla favava", but you get the idea)
{next morning}
Zaltec: "Hey guys! I'm going down to the arcade and thought maybe you'd... OH MY GOD!!!"
Kiltzi: {seeing her brother's look} "Ummmm... Quetzal made me do it!"
Tezcatlipoca: {rubbing hands together} "Mwah ha ha ha! I've just invented Brazillian porn!"
So, its like, there are 'two sides' to everything. And I'm not defending or condoning Quetzalcoatl's (mythical) actions, but if your going out drinking with a feathered snake, things are bound to get a little weird, ya know?
I believe there were also some 'Drunk Monkeys' involved in at least one version. NO... I'm not joking this time. Definitely some ebil little monkeys... who drink too much...
That's exactly where my mind went as well. Qotal leaves out of shame, unable to face his sister. His sister stays, but tells everyone "its not my fault, he made me do it".... and maybe it WAS his idea and not hers, but she didn't say no. So, the story got twisted. Qotal commanded his priests not to talk, because while they knew the truth, he didn't want his sister hurt more. Qotal's been over in Chult ever since, except at one point where he came home for just a short time when his brother Zaltec was turning into a bloodthirsty asshole (because his sister called him and said how bad it was getting, and that maybe he should come home to help fix things, and that's she's sorry).
Oh, and yes, I know that sounds like a bad Spanish soap opera, but... |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 19 Apr 2018 13:24:50 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 13:20:08
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One thing to bear in mind regarding "ancient civilizations" and these other races of men... and its something people keep forgetting about. Prior to the Days of Thunder the land was under ice because of the death of a sun due to an ice age, but nothing says that prior to that sun being destroyed that the supercontinent hadn't been around. These people of mud may have been from BEFORE the Sarrukh. The wood people and their fiery burning may have been a result of the death of the (a?) sun. The golden men may have been an attempt to create a race that could survive without a sun.
Remember as well, the culture that Quetzalcoatl, Tezcatlipoca, etc... comes from actually has the concept of their having been multiple ages with multiple deaths of different suns. While we don't HAVE to equate our world's myths to the realms, it might be worth doing so. After all, the world may have been around for millions of years. First Tezca (Tezcatlipoca in below myth), then Qotal (Quetzalcoatl in below myth), then possibly Azul/Calor(Tlaloc in the below myth... and possibly another name for Talos), and some other now "gone from the pantheon" water goddess wife (Chalchihuitlicue in below myth) may have "been the sun". Then the final sun is created by another god.
So, in this idea, Tezca was the first sun and Qotal kicked him out to take his place, and Tezca just killed everything.
The people of mud (who may have been any kind of elemental earth being come into being as Quotal was the sun)... Tezca "turned them into monkeys" because they weren't worshipping... I wouldn't take that literal though.... during Qotal's era as the sun god.
The people of wood may have died in the rain of fire by Azul/Calor (Talos?), all relating back to Tezca stealing his wife (a goddess of sex, flowers, and corn). Noting that if his wife was a goddess of flowers and corn and he was a god of rain... I can see them being involved with the wood people. Maybe the "people" were animate corn stalks or something like that... so not trees per se. Their crying for rain would even be more believable as plant people. They're also turned into "birds", and one of the worlds in realmspace is populated by aarakocra. So perhaps Qotal changed their nature to allow some to survive and helped them reach another world (portal? Flying ships? something else?). Later, its these same "bird folk" that return to Toril as the Aearee.
Then the time just before the age of Thunder was when a "water goddess" who was acting as "the sun" dies (and dies could just be that Toril's atmosphere is clouded so sunlight can't come in) and the world is drowned "in tears of her blood". This definitely fits the storyline leading into the age of Thunder wherein the world is covered in an ice age and the world is mostly water. Also the survivors of this era are "turned into fish".... batrachi. During this era could have been the golden men (which other myths have getting drowned).
From the Wiki on Tezcatlipoca and the wiki on the five suns
In one of the Aztec accounts of creation, Quetzalcoatl and Tezcatlipoca joined forces to create the world. Before their act there was only the sea and the crocodilian earthmonster called Cipactli. To attract her, Tezcatlipoca used his foot as bait, and Cipactli ate it. The two gods then captured her, and distorted her to make the land from her body. After that, they created the people, and people had to offer sacrifices to comfort Cipactli for her sufferings. Because of this, Tezcatlipoca is depicted with a missing foot.
From the void that was the rest of the universe, the first god, Ometeotl, created itself[citation needed]. Ometeotl was both male and female, good and evil, light and darkness, fire and water, judgment and forgiveness, the god of duality. Ometeotl gave birth to four children, the four Tezcatlipocas, who each preside over one of the four cardinal directions. Over the West presides the White Tezcatlipoca, Quetzalcoatl, the god of light, mercy and wind. Over the South presides the Blue Tezcatlipoca, Huitzilopochtli, the god of war. Over the East presides the Red Tezcatlipoca, Xipe Totec, the god of gold, farming and Spring time. And over the North presides the Black Tezcatlipoca, also called simply Tezcatlipoca, the god of judgment, night, deceit, sorcery and the Earth.[1]
It was these four gods who eventually created all the other gods and the world we know today, but before they could create they had to destroy, for every time they attempted to create something, it would fall into the water beneath them and be eaten by Cipactli, the giant earth crocodile, who swam through the water with mouths at every one of her joints. The four Tezcatlipocas descended the first people who were giants. They created the other gods, the most important of whom were the water gods: Tlaloc, the god of rain and fertility and Chalchiuhtlicue, the goddess of lakes, rivers and oceans, also the goddess of beauty. To give light, they needed a god to become the sun and the Black Tezcatlipoca was chosen, but either because he had lost a leg or because he was god of the night, he only managed to become half a sun. The world continued on in this way for some time, but a sibling rivalry grew between Quetzalcoatl and his brother the mighty sun, who Quetzalcoatl knocked from the sky with a stone club. With no sun, the world was totally black and in his anger, Tezcatlipoca commanded his jaguars to eat all the people.
The gods created a new group of people to inhabit the Earth, this time they were of normal size. Quetzalcoatl became the new sun and as the years passed, the people of the Earth grew less and less civilized and stopped showing proper honor to the gods. As a result, Tezcatlipoca demonstrated his power and authority as god of sorcery and judgment by turning the animalistic people into monkeys. Quetzalcoatl, who had loved the flawed people as they were, became upset and blew all of the monkeys from the face of the Earth with a mighty hurricane. He then stepped down as the sun to create a new people.
Tlaloc became the next sun, but Tezcatlipoca seduced and stole his wife Xochiquetzal, the goddess of sex, flowers and corn. Tlaloc then refused to do anything other than wallow in his own grief, so a great drought swept the world. The people's prayers for rain annoyed the grieving sun and he refused to allow it to rain, but the people continued to beg him. Then, in a fit of rage he answered their prayers with a great downpour of fire. It continued to rain fire until the entire Earth had burned away. The gods then had to construct a whole new Earth from the ashes.
The next sun and also Tlaloc’s new wife, was Chalchiuhtlicue. She was very loving towards the people, but Tezcatlipoca was not. Both the people and Chalchiuhtlicue felt his judgment when he told the water goddess that she was not truly loving and only faked kindness out of selfishness to gain the people’s praise. Chalchiuhtlicue was so crushed by these words that she cried blood for the next fifty-two years, causing a horrific flood that drowned everyone on Earth.
Quetzalcoatl would not accept the destruction of his people and went to the underworld where he stole their bones from the god Mictlantecuhtli. He dipped these bones in his own blood to resurrect his people, who reopened their eyes to a sky illuminated by the current sun, Huitzilopochtli.
The Tzitzimitl, or stars, became jealous of their brighter, more important brother Huitzilopochtli. Their leader, Coyolxauhqui, goddess of the moon, lead them in an assault on the sun and every night they come close to victory when they shine throughout the sky, but are beaten back by the mighty Huitzilopochtli who rules the daytime sky. To aid this all-important god in his continuing war, the Aztecs offer him the nourishment of human sacrifices. They also offer human sacrifices to Tezcatlipoca in fear of his judgment, offer their own blood to Quetzalcoatl, who opposes fatal sacrifices, in thanks of his blood sacrifice for them and give offerings to many other gods for many purposes. Should these sacrifices cease, or should mankind fail to please the gods for any other reason, this fifth sun will go black, the world will be shattered by a catastrophic earthquake, and the Tzitzimitl will slay Huitzilopochtli and all of humanity.
also this from the wiki of Tezcatlipoca
Chalchihuitlicue the Water Goddess then became the sun. But she was crushed by Tezcatlipoca's words who accused her of just pretending to be kind. She cried for many years and the world was destroyed by the resulting floods. Those people who survived the deluge were turned into fish. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 19 Apr 2018 13:27:42 |
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Jürgen Hubert
Acolyte
Germany
33 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 18:55:07
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So what would the aesthetics of batrachian sites be?
The Wikipedia entry for frogs says that they see things better at a distance, and that while it is unknown whether they perceive colors they react positively to blue light. Furthermore, considering their eyes they probably prefer inscriptions that cover a larger angle than humans.
Right now I am envisioning pictograms made out of enchanted blue light in large chambers or at the end of corridors. |
A German Geek - my gaming blog
Returned Maztica Discussion Thread - my interpretation of the True World
Doomed Slayers - my social analysis of adventurers. Also, a fantasy setting! |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 19:35:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert
So what would the aesthetics of batrachian sites be?
The Wikipedia entry for frogs says that they see things better at a distance, and that while it is unknown whether they perceive colors they react positively to blue light. Furthermore, considering their eyes they probably prefer inscriptions that cover a larger angle than humans.
Right now I am envisioning pictograms made out of enchanted blue light in large chambers or at the end of corridors.
Everything I need to know about the batrachi and aeree I learned from Brian James and Gray Richardson. Check out Compendium 3.
http://www.candlekeep.com/compendium/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 20:11:53
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@Slevas - I don't think I would put 'legends of past civilizations' that far back into prehistory - its called 'prehistory' for a reason. Legends would have never survived from that era, not even among elves. I would definitely say any human legends have to be from after the Sundering, and very few would be more than 10-12K old, i would imagine.
There were some ruins in India that were estimated to be around 9K old (the rail companies of Britain demolished them so they could use the stone to line the new railroad beds... I know.. I want to cry as well...), which would be the oldest human ruins known. Of course, we can't be sure now because they're gone and we can't really date them based on the few photographs that were taken in the 1800's before they were destroyed. However, there is zero record of them in any Indian texts, as far back as you go (we could possibly extrapolate from myths, because we know where they used to be). Anyhow, my point is that I think Chinese history goes back 5-7K (at most), and Egyptian is what? 5K, maybe? So apparently once you get past the 7K mark there is no record of anything. Now, elves and possibly dwarves may have kept good records further back, but we are talking about primitive human cultures in Maztica. If you are lucky, you might be able to find some cave with some ancient draconic texts, or some such, but thats a stretch.
Any Creator Race ruins found (including proto-human... which is why I prefer to say 'Mankind' for those guys) may have stories built up around them, but I really think those legends would have come long after the people who built the ruins disappeared, and therefor, would have nearly nothing to do with 'the truth'. The only reason why I even say "nearly nothing" is because if there is any type of artwork, it may depict some of the beings that lived there (or their slaves), so there might be a few 'accidental facts' mixed in. just based on that.
And I am picturing Gecko-like reptilian people for Maztica. For some reason when I was just typing the above about legends, the term 'Iguana people' popped into my head, and I can definitely see the Mazticans using that to describe the beings from ancient artwork. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Apr 2018 03:08:10 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 20:27:26
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No-one liked my suggestion that perhaps the Maztican gods were just Ancient Dragons (Elder Wyrms) that ruled kingdoms in this region? Or had an empire, and different family members ruled different parts (so the founders would have been Maztica and Kukul, and this would have been their 'Dragon Empire' in the Days of Thunder). Thus, it came down through the ages that these rulers were 'gods' (and may have even ascended because of all the worship/adulation, so thusly, a self-fulfilling prophesy kind of thing).
So these myths would just be stories about actual dragons, and the whole 'incest' thing is a little less unsavory (because dragons don't have those sorts of rules). Then as the legends are retold, through the filter of human perception, the story of Qotal and Kiltzi's 'coupling' became 'tainted'.
This would then give us some of that 'ancient lost civilizations' thing, based of FR's history and Maztica's own religious myths.
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
As for ancient civilizations, I’d definitely think we have the bateachi and aeree but I still think that leaves thousands of years of dead space. I know that pre Otomi, there were the Zateca. That’s canon - but still not enough. I’d also posit that the scorpionfolk civilization is far older (also canon). There really just isn’t much in the humanity department but really should be.
Could the scorpionfolk be a degraded form of something more 'pure' (more like scorpions, instead of Tauric)?
I'm picturing something along the lines of the thri-Kreen (run on six legs, and have two 'arms' in that mode', but when not moving about they can used both pairs of upper limbs for manipulating objects). Hmmmm... apparently they have eight legs AND the claws... FEARSOME. I has always thought the claws WERE the front two legs (just adapted by evolution). Anyhow, you get what I mean - when standing still they could possibly use their front set of legs like hands. I'm just trying to picture something even more alien-looking than the Scorpionfolk we know, as a precursor to them.
EDIT:
I just googled 'scorpion alien' trying to find something for inspiration, and all I got were pics of the alien from Alien. LOL
I forgot that thing had a scorpion-like tail (stinger). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 19 Apr 2018 20:44:53 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 20:31:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And I am picturing Gecko-like reptilian people for Maztica. Fro some reason when I was just typing the above about legends, the term 'Iguana people' popped into my head, and I can definitely see the Mazticans using that to describe the beings from ancient artwork.
I’ve been using them in Lopango (TWC2, with monster entry in TWC6). They are the cayma. Also there is an underground race known as the firiji that makes an appearance in TWA2. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 19 Apr 2018 20:32:30 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2018 : 20:38:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
As for ancient civilizations, I’d definitely think we have the bateachi and aeree but I still think that leaves thousands of years of dead space. I know that pre Otomi, there were the Zateca. That’s canon - but still not enough. I’d also posit that the scorpionfolk civilization is far older (also canon). There really just isn’t much in the humanity department but really should be.
Could the scorpionfolk be a degraded form of something more 'pure' (more like scorpions, instead of Tauric)?
I'm picturing something along the lines of the thri-Kreen (run on six legs, and have two 'arms' in that mode', but when not moving about they can used both pairs of upper limbs for manipulating objects). Hmmmm... apparently they have eight legs AND the claws... FEARSOME. I has always thought the claws WERE the front two legs (just adapted by evolution). Anyhow, you get what I mean - when standing still they could possibly use their front set of legs like hands. I'm just trying to picture something even more alien-looking than the Scorpionfolk we know, as a precursor to them.
EDIT:
I just googled 'scorpion alien' trying to find something for inspiration, and all I got were pics of the alien from Alien. LOL
I forgot that thing had a scorpion-like tail (stinger).
Also tried writing up a proto scorpionfolk known as the palophonti. In the real world there was a prehistoric sea scorpion without a tail stinger. I put their lower halves on a giants torso. None of that is canon but they sure were fun to right up.
Canonically however, the scorpionfolk do have an entire pantheon of their own (let me double check that, but I think it came up in one of the Oaxaptupa write ups). I tried to keep these palophonti separate from that all. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2018 : 00:45:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Slevas - I don't think I would put 'legends of past civilizations' that far back into prehistory - its called 'prehistory' for a reason. Legends would have never survived from that era, not even among elves. I would definitely say any human legends have to be from after the Sundering, and very few would be more than 10-12K old, i would imagine.
There were some ruins in India that were estimated to be around 9K old (the rail companies of Britain demolished them so they could use the stone to line the new railroad beds... I now.. I want to cry as well...), which would be the oldest human ruins known. Of course, we can't be sure now because they're gone and we can't really date them based on the few photographs that were taken in the 1800's before they were destroyed. However, there is zero record of them in any Indian texts, as far back as you go (we could possibly extrapolate from myths, because we know where they used to be). Anyhow, my point is that I think Chinese history goes back 5-7K (at most), and Egyptian is what? 5K, maybe? So apparently once you get past the 7K mark there is no record of anything. Now, elves and possibly dwarves may have kept good records further back, but we are talking about primitive human cultures in Maztica. If you are lucky, you might be able to find some cave with some ancient draconic texts, or some such, but thats a stretch.
Any Creator Race ruins found (including proto-human... which is why I prefer to say 'Mankind' for those guys) may have stories built up around them, but I really think those legends would have come long after the people who built the ruins disappeared, and therefor, would have nearly nothing to do with 'the truth'. The only reason why I even say "nearly nothing" is because if there is any type of artwork, it may depict some of the beings that lived there (or their slaves), so there might be a few 'accidental facts' mixed in. just based on that.
And I am picturing Gecko-like reptilian people for Maztica. Fro some reason when I was just typing the above about legends, the term 'Iguana people' popped into my head, and I can definitely see the Mazticans using that to describe the beings from ancient artwork.
Just remember, these gods have been around... and these gods interact with their worshippers unlike our world. So, while human history may not record those long ago things, the priests of these gods may have been given snippets of these earlier civilizations as dreams, visions, etc.. Nothing says that humanity has to have tracked it or even interacted with it. Nothing says that the Sarrukh or the other creator races need to have been involved either.
I'd also note that this time noted in history is called THE IMMORTAL ERA.... which if we wanted to play with that could have some interesting aspects. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2018 : 03:18:02
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True, I suppose 'The Gods' could be passing on knowledge.
However, gods are the biggest liars of them all... they make fiends look honest.
Forgot about the Cayma - good fit and good call. You know, I am constantly recommending the Mystara MM to everyone, and then I forget about it myself. There are a bunch of different 'scalyfolk' in there.
Hmmmm... I hadn't even considered the idea of large, prehistoric (Dino-ish) Scorpionfolk. Dire Tlincallis? LOL
Meanwhile, I was talking about giant scorpions in another thread (the Old Empires one I think, in regards to putting something cool in Sespech).
How about a scorpion-like creature with a snakes-head on the end of its tail instead? VERY Maztica/Aztec.
EDIT:
So I am still trying to think of a replacement for elephants in my psuedo-Persian take of Sespech, and I thought about giant turtles and I know I've seen some great pics of stuff like that, and I went looking for some, and found something I believe Sleyvas might be interested in - they look like a cross between turtle-people and plant-people.
Weird Green Race
May provide some inspiration for the Katashaka stuff. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Apr 2018 03:43:59 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 20 Apr 2018 : 08:57:48
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That is weird as hell (the turtle folk). It does kind of give some weird inspiration... but from another direction. These things have "horns" on their turtle shells (very Mario Bros). Having some kind of batrachi with horn like appendages (somewhat like a hook horror) and maybe even horns at elbows and on the crown of the head.... The colorful fins on the head too are maybe a must have.
BTW, like the concept scorpion (not scorpion man mind you) with an entire snake replacing the tail section. In essence, almost like a rattlesnake that has its body cut in half and the bottom half being a scorpion.... but whereas a normal scorpion can only attack forward, this thing is a danger in all directions. Its claws are a danger to whatever comes near its bottom half while the snake tail is a threat to the top half. This makes for a nasty "magical beast".
Meanwhile the other concept you had... giant scorpion with scorpion claws, but 2 of its 8 legs converted to "hands"... let's take it a little further and also make these individual monstrosities also spellcasters and intelligent. Also, as an "explanation" for their creation... Lolth created them in the abyss by having a glabrezu mate with a giant scorpion while her priests somehow blessed the union magically. She has had arachnids in her portfolio for a long time... so not just spiders necessarily. Just to note, Queen of the Demonweb pits also has some monsters known as Pedipalps which are somewhat a spider scorpion mix, as well as solifugids. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2018 : 22:11:53
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Lots of progress being made on the Door of Stars project. Let me just update on the plot, but I think it should be complete in less than a month. The PCs are essentially tasked with stealing the Risa Stone - an artifact that can be found in the world described in Dragon Magazine #70’s adventure known as Mechica. To do so, they have to gain the trust of Huasteco, the Revered Counselor of the city state of Otomi who guides them to the fabled Door of Stars and gives them a code to open the portal. In order to gain his trust they had to raid the City of the Dead known as Mictlatepec and either slay its undead ruler Alban or destroy the hishna talisman that lets him create more undead.
As it turns out, a people known as the Zateca once occupied this part of Maztica but fled through the Door of Stars to escape an incursion of vampires. One of these vampires remains and attempts to prevent the PCs from making it through the Door. With the help of desmodu, the PCs make it to Mechica and discover that the ancient Zateca are now known as the Sapotec (name has been bastardized over the centuries) and they are under assault by the Aztec like people known as the Mechica. The Mechica have all become werejaguars due to the ascendancy of the god Tezcatlipoca over all others. The PCs must form an alliance between the Sapotec and Tlaloc worshipping gnomes (Azul in Maztica) and cause a big enough distraction so that they can sneak into the city to steal the Risa Stone.
I know it sounds convoluted but the adventure actually seems to be meshing seemlessly. I hope you all enjoy the final product when I do release. A draft that does not have creature statistics will likely be out next week. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 25 Apr 2018 22:12:46 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2018 : 00:15:02
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| Door of Stars.... Stargate? I remember there was something akin to a portal in your work in that city in the mountains in northwest maztica. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 26 Apr 2018 : 00:30:49
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Door of Stars.... Stargate? I remember there was something akin to a portal in your work in that city in the mountains in northwest maztica.
That’s exactly the one - and the inspiration too. Since there are so few adventures that have he mesoamerican theme and they are spread out among the various campaign settings (Azcans in Hollow World, Olmans in Greyhawk, etc.), I figured something like a Stargate could interconnect them all. This also ties into the adventure path that may or may not lead to Maztica’s resurrection (3rd out of 4 adventures). Gathering the Risa Stone is a necessity for that plot. |
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Jürgen Hubert
Acolyte
Germany
33 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2018 : 05:44:20
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quote:
Everything I need to know about the batrachi and aeree I learned from Brian James and Gray Richardson. Check out Compendium 3.
http://www.candlekeep.com/compendium/
I finally got around to reading this, and I find it interesting how the Batrachians were dedicated to changing themselves - indeed, I'd call it "Transhumanism" in a science fiction context. This subject interests me (I once even wrote a Pyramid article titled "Elves: A Case Study of Transhumanism in
Fantasy Worlds"), and it explains why there are so many different species tracing their ancestry back to the original Batrachians.
I think I can work with that theme, and incorporate experiments and experimental setups in other Batrachian ruins that focus on changing the nature of living beings. |
A German Geek - my gaming blog
Returned Maztica Discussion Thread - my interpretation of the True World
Doomed Slayers - my social analysis of adventurers. Also, a fantasy setting! |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2018 : 12:20:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Jürgen Hubert
quote:
Everything I need to know about the batrachi and aeree I learned from Brian James and Gray Richardson. Check out Compendium 3.
http://www.candlekeep.com/compendium/
I finally got around to reading this, and I find it interesting how the Batrachians were dedicated to changing themselves - indeed, I'd call it "Transhumanism" in a science fiction context. This subject interests me (I once even wrote a Pyramid article titled "Elves: A Case Study of Transhumanism in
Fantasy Worlds"), and it explains why there are so many different species tracing their ancestry back to the original Batrachians.
I think I can work with that theme, and incorporate experiments and experimental setups in other Batrachian ruins that focus on changing the nature of living beings.
There’s also this...
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12568 |
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Jürgen Hubert
Acolyte
Germany
33 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2018 : 17:11:50
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| And from a "Transhumanist" perspective, perhaps Kraken are another form of descendant of the Batrachi - those who took their self-transformation further than most (similar to how mortal mages transform themselves into liches - but using flesh-shaping instead of necromancy to transform themselves into a more potent form). Certainly, this would explain how Kraken know how to create Sea Spawn, Deep Scions, and similar servitors. |
A German Geek - my gaming blog
Returned Maztica Discussion Thread - my interpretation of the True World
Doomed Slayers - my social analysis of adventurers. Also, a fantasy setting! |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 29 Apr 2018 : 16:54:16
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I don’t think this is something that with all the projects I’m currently working on I’d have time to work out - but I thought of an event that I think would be really fun for Maztica. In some earlier Dragon Magazines there was a series of articles on an invasion of “sheens.” I don’t know if it was the art or what, but it really caught my attention when they came out. Does anyone remember which issues had them? I was thinking of having a meteor strike Kultaka (around the time Maztica returned from Abeir to give the sheens some time to gain a foothold). As powerful as they are, the Kultakans are outmatched and need help before the sheens infect the whole True World.
Thoughts?
Edit: The articles were in Dragon 258 and 270
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Edited by - Seethyr on 29 Apr 2018 17:37:53 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2018 : 02:28:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I don’t think this is something that with all the projects I’m currently working on I’d have time to work out - but I thought of an event that I think would be really fun for Maztica. In some earlier Dragon Magazines there was a series of articles on an invasion of “sheens.” I don’t know if it was the art or what, but it really caught my attention when they came out. Does anyone remember which issues had them? I was thinking of having a meteor strike Kultaka (around the time Maztica returned from Abeir to give the sheens some time to gain a foothold). As powerful as they are, the Kultakans are outmatched and need help before the sheens infect the whole True World.
Thoughts?
Edit: The articles were in Dragon 258 and 270
Sheens? Infection? What's Charlie doing in Maztica? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2018 : 02:19:40
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As more projects come into the foreground, old ones start to get completed...
Here is the penultimate version of TWR3 The Door of Stars.
It's not technically playable yet, because it lacks statistics for the new monsters it includes. I will get on that immediately and replace the link with its DMsGuild version as soon as it is complete.
And Yes , Charlie Sheen should be statted up for 5e! |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 01 May 2018 05:14:22 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 11 May 2018 : 21:39:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
As more projects come into the foreground, old ones start to get completed...
Here is the penultimate version of TWR3 The Door of Stars.
It's not technically playable yet, because it lacks statistics for the new monsters it includes. I will get on that immediately and replace the link with its DMsGuild version as soon as it is complete.
And Yes , Charlie Sheen should be statted up for 5e!
The final product is up on DMsGuild.
Next up there are a whole bunch of ideas I'd like to explore. Some of these have begun, others are only in the brainstorming phase. Either way, there is a full 4-5 hours of writing put into "Maztica Alive" each week. If I had more time, there would be more - I'm having a blast. Of course help is always appreciated, as are new ideas.
Maztica Alive Potential Project Brainstorm:
1. TWR4 Zatal - The Mountain of Fire This adventure/supplement will complete the TWR adventure path. It is meant to be a combination supplment and adventure. Zatal is going to be Maztica's answer to Undermountain. Six levels of megadungeon with themes for each level, but the adventure will take player's through parts of each in order to reach the literal "heart" of the mountain. More on this later for sure, hopefully at least an updated draft of the intro by the end of the month.
2. TWM8 Pluma Weavings and Hishna Shapes - Magic Items of the True World A collection of magic items and an artifacts or two. Could really use help on this one - if you want to send me an item or ten, I will surely include it and credit you. I just keep texting myself new items each day as I sit and think about them in the train but have only come up with a dozen so far.
3. TWC8 Maztica Campaign Guide Expansion A lot has changed in the last few years since The Maztica Campaign Guide was released. This book will contain errata and updates (like how to reconcile the Tabaxi of TWC1 and the official Tabaxi of Tomb of Annihilation). It will also more closely define the changes that occured in Maztica during its exile on Abeir. It will have an alternative Jaguar and Eagle Knight class that uses a paladin as its base class instead of the ranger as it did in TWC1, new items, spells, backgrounds, a few monsters, etc. Perhaps there will be a section on exclusively Maztican familiars, Maztica as a living goddess (if she is resurrected in the TWR series), updated items from Aurora's catalogue and the Maztican Calendar. This of course, is just a temporary list and may expand.
4. TWA6 The Relic I always thought that the movie "The Relic" which featured a creature known as a Kothoggo would make a superb adventure or plot for Maztica. I already have a write up for the creature in TWC7 and have secured some art. This should be the next adventure, but it wont be as extensive as the TWR series.
5. TWC9 Anchorome The title needs to be changed because I will simply focus on updating the city of Michaca and the immediate surrounding regions and peoples, perhaps going as far as the Land of the Mantis Men. This is planned as an extensive update to FMR1 City of Gold but will delve far deeper into lore. Perhaps it will include a foray into Esh Alakar.
6. ??? Something always comes up and there are a few other authors that have been working on projects recently. I'm really looking forwward to seeing what they come up with.
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Edited by - Seethyr on 11 May 2018 21:40:37 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2018 : 01:33:25
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| Would be interested in working with you on the Anchorome / Esh Alakar piece if you'd be amenable to letting red wizards take it over (minority Mulan population). I've got some rough stuff written up, and I want to delve the mantis men as well, but I don't have a solid idea in my head yet. Would also like to work on the Metahel in the area. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2018 : 02:04:23
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Would be interested in working with you on the Anchorome / Esh Alakar piece if you'd be amenable to letting red wizards take it over (minority Mulan population). I've got some rough stuff written up, and I want to delve the mantis men as well, but I don't have a solid idea in my head yet. Would also like to work on the Metahel in the area.
Absolutely! If you don’t mind, I’ll send you the parts I’ve written up already that I’m more than willing to change.
On another note, I just realized Paladinnicolas wrote up a wonderful continuation to the TWR story line that I hadn’t even seen! Going to read through it and change some things around. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11829 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2018 : 11:03:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Would be interested in working with you on the Anchorome / Esh Alakar piece if you'd be amenable to letting red wizards take it over (minority Mulan population). I've got some rough stuff written up, and I want to delve the mantis men as well, but I don't have a solid idea in my head yet. Would also like to work on the Metahel in the area.
Absolutely! If you don’t mind, I’ll send you the parts I’ve written up already that I’m more than willing to change.
On another note, I just realized Paladinnicolas wrote up a wonderful continuation to the TWR story line that I hadn’t even seen! Going to read through it and change some things around.
That sounds great. I'll PM you my personal email and also throw together the pieces that I have regarding the Tharch of Esh Alakar. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 12 May 2018 : 13:30:57
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Reread my response and what I said looks misleading - I meant to say I’m going to change some of what I’ve written to more closely match Paladinnicolas’ writing - I’m not changing what he wrote lol.
Looking forward to getting going on Anchorome! |
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Maztica Alive! Workshop
