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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
 Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 21:07:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everyone loves flying monkeys!
You might want to consider reworking the Ba’Atun from UK7 Dark Clouds Gather then and their leader Yesork Payeh (sorry I can’t post links still). I loved that adventure and it could fit in quite well.
Ya know, I had been completely unaware of that adventure!
Cloud Giants? Aarakocra envoys?
Methinks I may just adapt this whole-cloth to Katashaka. 
Thanks for the heads-up!!!
Lol no problem! I dont know if it’s because I bought it so young, but this has always been one of my favorite adventures to even just read through. I’ve wanted to update it for a long time. I originally had intended Anchorome if I ever got to writing up that place, (mostly because of the aarakocra presence) but Katashaka works great too. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 21:21:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Everyone loves flying monkeys!
You might want to consider reworking the Ba’Atun from UK7 Dark Clouds Gather then and their leader Yesork Payeh (sorry I can’t post links still). I loved that adventure and it could fit in quite well.
lol, white wings, icy blue fur, and red butts.
I do like the place name Tikka-Ti-Jarra... and actually a lot of the names in the module (Karraka, Barruk, Shadrond, Mount Ederglow).
And the Skyfish that's a ship shaped like a manta ray.... this must have predated the spelljammer
Man its interesting sometimes to go back to some of this 1st edition stuff and look at how things have changed with time.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 21:58:19
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Yeah, I really like it - I am going to put all of that just south of Stormwrath, as the 'starter adventure'.
I am going to ditch the archmage, though - kind of pointless. I'm just going to go with the Aarokocra having approached the Storm Giants directly, in the backstory. The priest Bernhardt becomes the Shaman Babertunde, and the village gets renamed Lurnloya. The visiting cleric can remain the same (another Faerûnian in Katashaka 'on business' - probably a missionary). 'Asdos of Silvanus'.
The 'flying manta-ship' becomes an artifact of the Fallen Giant Empires. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 27 Feb 2018 22:05:13 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 22:52:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The 'flying manta-ship' becomes an artifact of the Fallen Giant Empires.
Perhaps a relic from when the Giant-Kings (from the Lopango lore book) arrived in or near Lopango? It would require changing the cloud giants into stone giants. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 27 Feb 2018 22:52:52 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 22:58:53
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Just so you don’t have to go fishing for that information - TWC2 has a race of giants in Lopango that have been cursed by the gods. Long ago they fled a battle with the dragons (led by an avatar of Garyx) causing the deaths of dozens of storm giant allies. They fled to the True World and were taken in by Kukul (known as Virachoa in Lopango). Their shame poisoned their hearts and soon they began to value gold far more than the deity that had offered them a home. He had a bit of a tantrum and tried to drown them out with a massive flood and cursed them so that their touch could petrify (the resulting stone being iron pyrite also known as fool’s gold).
The lore would have some nice synchronicity. |
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Edited by - Seethyr on 27 Feb 2018 23:00:29 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 23:16:34
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Man its interesting sometimes to go back to some of this 1st edition stuff and look at how things have changed with time.
Agreed, and also to update what hasn’t been touched. UK7 will minor flavorful tweaks really is a great fit.
Although it’s set in Mystara - the adventure Needle was another one I was going to find some use for. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 27 Feb 2018 : 23:56:40
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Well, since the whole of my Katashaka is rooted in the Xen'drik material, I can use any giants, because they're all interrelated.
The great Giant Empire fell tens of thousands of years ago (a bunch of stuff was involved, including dragons), and then there were 'survivor states' all over the place, and then these fell, until you have the situation you have today - hundreds of scattered 'clans' all over Katashaka, all dreaming of their past glories, but they've fallen so far they'll never recover that (not even the cloud and storm giants - even they have become a lot more 'savage').
Your Stone Giants may have recovered one the ancient, giantish 'flying machines' and used it to go to Lopango, dreaming (as all Kata giants do) of reestablishing their supremacy, but instead they focused on the worst civilization has to offer - GREED. I believe there was another such ship in canon Maztica lore (if we say it was 'giant sized', then we can even have fun with a psuedo Alien-type scenario {the movie}).
EDIT:
Which reminds me, as I just went looking for two races (from SJ) that could possibly fit 'Aliens vs Predators', I remembered an important part of my Stormwrath lore - it not only a Toril-specific cosmopolitan mecca (because of all the nearby sea-gates and cultures), but its also an omnipolitan base as well. It's the latest, most popular 'star port' on Toril. Now, this is weird, because I greatly dislike Spelljammer stuff, but I really want this odd city to have a 'Mos Eisley' kind of vibe, or maybe a better comparison would be a scaled-down version of Sigil. You can run into just about anyone or anything in Stormwrath.
Now, once you leave the city, it gets very primitive, very quickly (not that the city is all that civilized either - think Skullport on steroids). Yes, THAT bad. There are 11 controlling factions (that may change - there is one faction for each 'mound' in the city, but one mound is empty so no faction there... maybe..), and so long as you are 'in' with a faction, you shouldn't get in too much trouble (which means doing a bunch of 'beginner quests' as soon as you arrive. members of the same adventuring party don't necessarily have to be part of the same faction - they do all work together, even though they are rivals (some more hostile than others). I suppose that means I should fold the four 4e/5e Faerûn factions in. That might not be such a bad idea, now that I just thought of it... it would give me a great starting point (oh noes! Red Wizards! LMAO).
Anyhow, the idea is that you can run into some pretty crazy stuff in and around Stormwrath before you even get out in the 'main adventuring area', which is split into three tiers, along the same lines the tier (power) system in 4e (I forget what they were called). Coastal regions would be the outer band, and be like levels 1-10, with their being another band where the challenges would be 11-20, and finally a 'core' are - 'The Heart of the Jungle' - that would be levels 21-30. Everything gets bigger and scarier as you travel inward.
So, like regular animals in the outer band, giant and flying versions of same in the next band, and then giant flying or gargantuan version of creatures in the middle, with Gargantuan, unique (sometimes flying) creatures roaming 'the Heart' (figure BBG's for dungeons/AP's). The Kaiju would be among the uniques, but there could be other 'things'.
BTW, I found some canon lore that says the Terrasque is sleeping under the Purple Hills (Grey Hills), but I suppose we could just ignore that, since its Netheril box and could just be 'outdated info'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Feb 2018 02:35:39 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 00:36:44
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or we could simply say that all those people that say that the tarrasque is "unique" are wrong. After all, it's been seen on many a world. The question becomes, how do they come about. They obviously aren't "born". I personally like the idea I was using for them with Katashaka... they're summoned from some kind of nightmare realm and only via primitive dream magics used by powerful dream casters. That contradiction would make for very few individuals that can actually reach out and summon a tarrasque or other nyama-nummo.
Hmmm, on that note... what if many of the nyama-nummo of Katashaka are what they DREAM that their god is like. Its not an avatar, because its not bound to the god or even controlled by the god. Its more a dream given reality based upon what they view a god to be like. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 02:18:17
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| I haven’t read it in decades but I seem to recall the tarrasque’s heart was used to power the Karsus’ Avatar spell that allowed him to take Mystra’s place as the Momentary God. Has that canon been hand waived away? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 02:30:54
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Well, the Terrasque tends to follow the same pattern as artifacts... {hmmmmmm..} - it appears, it causes a ruckus - and then it disappears, only to reappear elsewhere and do it all over again. Now, I believe there was an adventure that synced-up to the Netheril Arcane Age stuff, and in that, you had to fight the Terrasque, so if the Netheril box had it in those hills, then it already woke-up, and should not be there anymore.
The theory used to be 'one Terrasque per world', and there was even a further theory that it was the same Terrasque (that moved around, a lot like an artifact, as I already said). There was some really bad SJ lore with a 'planet of the Terrasques', which I suppose you could say was where all the world-specific Terrasques go when 'not in use' (so this almost makes them like Avatars, and that planet is some sort of 'Godly Realm'). A world needs some Terrasqu-ing, and one gets sent out. I HATED that. Most people just prefer to ignore that lore, as we should. Its stomps on all previous D&D lore. We could just say those are like 'afterimages' of a Terrasque that was on the world, like illusions, but more actual previous versions of the creature (as if some archmage used some sort of 'time shatter' magic on it - some cosmic MacGuffin like that).
Anyhow, it just means the Terrasque could be in Katashaka, although it probably means that it can't be THE Terrasque (as in, 'there can be only one'). Unless, of course, we say that when it is 'sleeping' (comatose) in Katashaka - which is most of the time - it sends out avatars of itself (or maybe just one avatar) to do 'Terrasque Stuff' elsewhere. Thus, when it wakes up hungry in Katashaka, its 'between assignments'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 28 Feb 2018 02:37:00 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 04:52:50
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| Yeah I agree, the tarrasque lore seems a bit of a mess but not unresolvable. Another thought might be this god-like creature, known actually as The Sleeper, has only taken the form of “a” tarrasque but is in fact a whole different being. I read somewhere that The Sleeper was at one time not such a mindless abomination. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 05:51:57
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Hmmmmm... 'The Sleeper' might actual be the original, quasi-Divine being (like these other Nyama-Nummo, or 'Kaiju'), and it send out these 'dreams' which are like avatars, and they wreak destruction elsewhere, and when they are destroyed somehow that energy or whatever simply returns to 'The Sleeper'.
So what if the Sleeper itself is a physical body Ubtao once took, like a manifestation? It can't be permanently destroyed (because Ubtao might be more than a god, or even more than a primordial), so instead he separates his 'essence' from his form, and the 'mindless husk' he leaves behind is the rampaging Terrasque, which he has to keep in a coma so it doesn't destroy everything. But sometimes the creature's rage gets so great, even in its sleep, it sends out these 'dream projections' of itself? And the few times the thing actually physically awakes (like in the GHotR vingette), thats when Ubtao is busy elsewhere, and an't focus on keeping the creature asleep.
Which now makes me think - perhaps the Terrasque is the most powerful of the Nyama-Nummo, but the others are similar creatures? That somehow when the 'mind' (spirit, whatever) of a god (primordial?) gets 'locked away' (like on Abeir), its physical body must still be dealt with somehow? We have other instances - especially with the Elder Evils - of uber-powerful beings having to separate them into component pieces just to keep them from regenerating.
Oh, and can we have at least one Krakentua? I love me some Krakentua (a VERY bad experiment of the Imaskari, implanting illithid tadpoles in titans). Maybe have this Kata one be some sort of prototype created by the giants themselves - a failure on their part and relic of the past. He could be even bigger and stronger than the ones in K-T, and we cold call him 'King Krakentua'.
And some of the giant ruins have 'stone guardians' of immense proportions... statues that walk. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 12:20:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I haven’t read it in decades but I seem to recall the tarrasque’s heart was used to power the Karsus’ Avatar spell that allowed him to take Mystra’s place as the Momentary God. Has that canon been hand waived away?
Hmmmm, that's a very interesting thing there Seethyr in light of what I just proposed... thank you. IF the tarrasque is in fact a very powerful creature called from dreams, that would make it very interesting that its a component used in ascending to godhood.
For that matter, as much as I don't really care for the lore in VGtMonsters for beholders reproducing themselves via dreaming a new one into the world for the way ALL beholders come about.... I do like that maybe this is how new strains of beholders come about.... or even how new queens are created. Maybe only the ones created via dreams can reproduce, and when they die, that "strain" of beholders dies. I mention this because then beholder queens might be useful as components in some kind of lesser dream magics.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 21:30:37
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My whole problem with using 'The Dreamtime' (Plane of Dreams for creation and procreation - most especially gods AND aberrations - is that I folded my 'dream realm' into Faerie, or what is now called The Feywild (or the 'Spirit World' in many mythos).
Its a wee bit complex, but in my cosmological model (which REALLY needs to be updated), I have three 'platters' (sort of) representing The Material Planes (The Prime + Elements), the Upper Planes ('Upper World'), and the Lower Planes (The Underworld). The Upper planes are filled with '(Divine) Light', and the lower planes are filled with shadowy darkness.. This is because of the Material plane sandwiched in the middle - the 'Light' from the upper planes shines down upon the Material Planes, and is reflected back onto the bottom of the Upper Planes (platter). Thus, 'The Feywild' is really a distorted reflection of the 'real world'. 'The Light' can't really reach the Lower Planes, because the shadow from the Material Planes is cast upon the Lower Planes, and THAT shadow is the Shadowfell (so literally, the Feywild and Shadowfell are the reflections and shadow of the Material world).
So this means that a person's mind can wander the Aethers (Astral and Ethereal Planes) while they sleep, and wind-up in either the 'dream World' (Feywild) or the Nightmare Realm (Shadowfell) - these are just the way our 'spirit' interprets those planes while sleeping, but unlike a physical being traveling to these planes, your unconscious mind can actually take control of the environment, making 'sleepers' quite dangerous to the folk of those planes. Fortunately, the effects are normally localized, hermaless, and dissolve into the mists' after the dreamer leaves... but not always. In other words, 'dreamers' are like small viruses that can 'attack' the reality of those planes, because anything outside the Material Plane is entirely mutable. Only the Material Plane is 'fixed' (because the Ymir died - mortals literally live inside a dead dimension). This is because our 'soul stuff' (Elan) is really an infinitesimally small piece of the ancient Supernal, which has the ability to warp the universe around itself (which is why that Soul-stuff is so damn important, and why 'the powers that be' have been trying to recollect it since the Dawn War). As physical beings on a physical plane, our conscious minds can handle those concepts - we accept what our sense tell us as 'fact'. Powerful mortals can overcome this somewhat, using magic, or even psionics (really just flavors of the same thing - the ability to change reality with your mind), but your unconscious mind is not limited to that methodology, at least not when outside the Material Planes. This is one of the most well-kept secrets of the universe - that all 'mortals' are really just deific larvae.
Anyhow, I didn't mean to get so deep into the metaphysics of my version of the D&Dverse. I just needed to explain how my versions of Dream and nightmare relate to the rest of the cosmology, and why this whole 'Dreamer' thing messes with my vision of the Feywild... maybe.
Hmmmm... what if that 'Supernal mind' - that tiny, itty-bit, infinitely small shard of Supernal we all have within us allows us to 'side-step' The Veil - the barrier between universes? Normally, there is no way to pierce that barrier (although the Obyriths managed it, from their side), but what if the Beholders know some of this? What if what they are really doing is reaching back into The far Realms - that 'Otherverse' - and pulling some it through the Dreamtime into the Real World? In other words, 'Dreams' are the one back-door there is in the ((D&D) universe to get in and out of places like The Far Realms easily. Its the one dmension the 'wall' of the The Veil does not exist (and The Veil is something like DC comic's Source Wall, although that would be a purely physical {Prime Material} manifestation of it - it would look different from each dimension).
In my cosmology, Erebus is the guardian of The Veil -he is not a God or Primordial, yet also not a Supernal, although he does have say over some of their 'stuff' - he is an Eternal. Something 'outside' the normal hierarchy. Ao and the LoP are also eternals, and Eternals might be avatars of Supernals, but its a LOT more complicated than that (because the 'avatar' of something that high up the foodchain is an Overgod, and thus a being in its own right). He guards 'The Night' - the paper thin (yet impenetrable) curtain that separates our reality from non-reality. But you can slip past him in dreams... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2018 : 23:12:10
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| In this, I'm specifically leaving dream magic as a very "not detailed" thing. Does it touch the Far Realm? yes. Is it tied somehow to psionics? yes. Is it somehow tied to the place where vestiges go? sure. Can it create a being from nothingness and give it weird characteristics? yep. Can someone use dreams to travel from one place to another? yep. Is this anything like formalized wizardry with repeatable formulas, specific components that always work like X, that you can calculate exactly what will happen? Nope... dream magic is a bit dangerous because it never quite works the same way. Practicitioners are almost like wild mages.... and in fact there are those who believe that wild mages are actually tapping into the dreaming to "enhance" their effects.... but even wild mages are nothing like a dream shaman. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2018 : 00:44:31
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I keep coming across references to 'dreamers' all over the place (most recently in Doom of Daggerdale). Until I started playing with this Katashaka (and Maztica) stuff, I hadn't noticed how common a theme it was.
Hey Seethyr (or whoever else is working on Maz.) - what did you do with the Star Worm, H'Calos? Weirdly, I was looking for a reference to something completely unrelated, and it lead me to H'Calos (seems quite a few things on Toril "arrived by meteorite"). So when I read through that adventure, it appears he is from H'Catha. It also says that he arrived 'about a thousand years ago'. So that lead me to H'Catha, and I came across some interesting lore I had completely forgotten about: The Archmage Sarelk. The guy lives in a space station above H'Catha, and he created the Batship. His wife tried using the Batship, and she's been trapped as its helmsman ever since, and he's been trying to figure-out how to get her back ever since. And here's the good part (for us) - this all happened about a millennia ago.
So right around the time a major ruckus occurs in space over H'Catha, a Kaiju name H'Calos from H'Catha get itself trapped in a meteor somehow and goes careening across Realmspace to land in Maztica. Seems kind of relevant, no?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Mar 2018 19:25:00 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2018 : 05:09:28
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| H’Calos was slain by one of Cordell’s generals - Alanza DaNosta and the Golden Legion after seriously wrecking Far Payit. Canonically, that was the end of him, but I’ve given him spawn in my bestiary known as H’Calans. At the moment, they are relatively small and live in the limestone caverns that permeate the Far Payit underdark. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2018 : 07:34:29
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I'm thinking about connecting some of that backstory to Katshaka's Kaiju.
That for whatever reason, these 'god-like beasts' were trapped within 'eggs' (asteroids) in Realmspace back when the Sphere was first formed, and normally The Weave keeps anything from interfering with them, or interacting with them in almost any way (they may even be 'cloaked'). But when Magic 'goes amok' for any reason it could cause one or more of them to head right for Toril and crash. This would include something as magically significant as the activation of the Batship (a huge, powerful artifact*). My thoughts here go beyond this project - I've noticed we've had a LOT of stuff falling from the skies in FR throughout its history, I think its tied to periods of magical destabilization. Anyhow, I'm not quite sure why these are there, but it could explain a lot of the Kaiju we have in Katashaka (they are the 'husks' of primal demigods, like very savage, primitive, proto-gods).
*I picture artifacts (and Epic/High Magic rituals) acting almost like 'black holes' when it comes to magical energies - it 'warps the fabric of magic' itself because of their sheer power. Thus, if you have an artifact that's always 'on', it will begin to create wild magic effects immediately around it, and this 'zone' would grow over time. The fact that these things teleport away ever so often is probably the built-in fail safe, otherwise you may wind-up creating a 'tear in reality'. Another way to look at is that it temporarily 'shorts out' The Weave in a small area, or whatever passes for the Weave on whatever world your on. So gods probably don't like folks using artifacts, because they are like 'hacks' in the magical code, and could cause lasting damage if left unchecked. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Mar 2018 07:36:12 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2018 : 18:50:34
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| I've done nothing with the Star Worm other than read about it. The idea of the nyama-nummo arriving via asteroid is a possibility that might work for some. Actually, that might be a better idea is to give various and different arrival methods for different ones. For instance, one of the nyama-nummo that I'm making is literally Nobanion. The people of Faerun think he's new, but he's been in Katashaka for millennia as a manifestation like the Mulan gods (and periodically showing up in the Gulthmere Forest as well). Then having some nyama-nummo that were brought in via dreams. But maybe having a few that came over as a result of asteroid crashes works.... it could explain the really huge mountain ranges that separate the area with the nyama-nummo from the other areas that are less dangerous. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2018 : 19:27:23
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Yes, that's what I was thinking of as well - NOT all of them. Just a few , because it shoe-horns nicely with other lore (and also kaiju movies LOL).
The above question/post was actually aimed at Seethyr - I edited it. My bad - I was wondering what he did about the Star Worm in his Maztica Alive stuff. 
I went looking into H'Catha because I thought maybe we could find other useful bits there, but weirdly, there is NO mention of ANY 'giant monsters' in regards to the 'planet'. It is, however, incredibly interesting unto itself. Although I am not all that familiar with post-1970's DC comics stories, I have come to like some of the lore, like the Source Wall, which I only learned about because of an Angers/JLA crossover. I have something similar going on with The Veil in my cosmology. Anyway, a piece of that lore I hadn't used in mine was that over the uncounted millennia of the universe, many uber-powerful beings had tried to get past the Source wall, and failed, and became part of the wall. AS I said, that didn't work for my version...
But H'Catha has its own 'cosmic thing' going on - if you climb the spire (the whole 'planet' is almost like a version of the Outlands, in miniature) and manage to reach the top, you are granted the sum of ALL knowledge. You basically become Omniscient. Now, what if other cosmic entities - like savage proto-gods - have tried to assault the spire from time to time, and the spire defended itself by putting them in suspended animation and trapping them in a hardened 'shell'? So there could be dozens of these things floating around in Realmspace - maybe even hundreds. Other than being abnormally spherical, they'd appear to be nothing more than regular asteroids.
However, any sort of major 'wild magic surge' that occurs near them could send them flying toward Toril. Things that affect the Weave in any significant way would do likewise, because The Weave is 'close to everything' in Realmspace. Its almost like a magnetic effect, like that The Spire is reacting to The Weave, by sending 'potential threats' at Toril, because for some unknown reason, Toril is considered the place these things are supposed to 'get sent' (and this could all go back to the reasons why Abeir & Toril were split in the first place).
Anything to add? Comments? Like/Dislike? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Mar 2018 19:02:07 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2018 : 22:31:20
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What makes you think H'Calos actually comes from H'Catha? I only ask because I'm intrigued with the idea, but the only entry I see that seems to hint at it is this one in endless armies. However, Mirandos is basically described as a little bit unhinged to the point of madness and reading the lore for H'Calos and disregarding things (like any warnings). So, I wouldn't take anything she believes as canon. It could be interesting though if H'Calos is a creature from the beholder world. In fact, given the idea of beholders dreaming creatures into being... maybe H'Calos not only came over as an asteroid strike, but maybe he was also a nightmare pulled over by a beholder dreaming. Maybe said beholder made it to the top of the spire, but was driven insane because his brain wasn't big enough, but it opened him up to dream magic in his insanity or something.
Along those same lines, H'Calos being in an asteroid. Beholders have flesh to stone eye rays. What if H'Calos was literally sealed in a ball created from the bodies of those fallen fighting it (i.e. beholders work together to disintegrates enough rock to trap it in a landslide. Then beholders telekinesis' dead bodies into place... while other beholder turns them to stone. When its totally sealed up, they use disintegration to make a channel for the new asteroid to roll into the sea... and which point it rolls out, and then falls off of the edge of the world.
This would assume of course that it was a LOT more powerful previously and that the millennia of sleeping has changed it. If I have Gozirra as a nyama-nummo, I might use the same story. Maybe that's where the original "sleeper" came from as well.
From Endless Armies
Her attackers are to be taken alive, and imprisoned in the Ball Court for sacrifice that evening with the rising of the planet H'#146;Catha, which Mirandos believes is tied to H'#146;Calos#146; power. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 02 Mar 2018 22:35:02 |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2018 : 23:14:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The theory used to be 'one Terrasque per world', and there was even a further theory that it was the same Terrasque (that moved around, a lot like an artifact, as I already said). There was some really bad SJ lore with a 'planet of the Terrasques', which I suppose you could say was where all the world-specific Terrasques go when 'not in use' (so this almost makes them like Avatars, and that planet is some sort of 'Godly Realm'). A world needs some Terrasqu-ing, and one gets sent out. I HATED that. Most people just prefer to ignore that lore, as we should. Its stomps on all previous D&D lore. We could just say those are like 'afterimages' of a Terrasque that was on the world, like illusions, but more actual previous versions of the creature (as if some archmage used some sort of 'time shatter' magic on it - some cosmic MacGuffin like that).
Sorry I'm a bit late to discussion, but I think it's very possible the "Tarrasques" on the planet, might be just Reptilian Gargantua.
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/gargantu.php
I mean, Gargantuas all have regeration akin to a Tarrasque, and Reptillian look similar, and even eat minerals/rocks (among things), like the "Tarrasques" describes in Speljammer. And of I remember right, the reptiles on Falx, aren't outright stated to be Tarrasques, just eerily similar. Another similarity, is that both the Tarrasqye-like reptiles of Falx, and Reptilian Gargantuas, are actuall species, with multiple speciements.
Another possibility, is that the Sleeper takes also the shape of an Reptillian Gargantua, instead of a Tarrasque...it's just harm for most people to make the difference. |
Edited by - Baltas on 14 Mar 2018 02:09:07 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 11:14:11
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the reason though that people say that "the sleeper" is a tarrasque is the picture tied to "the sleeper awakens". Also, the first real mention of Katashaka by I think BRJ in one of the candlekeep compendiums talks about the tarrasque down there. Now, technically, according to the story in GHotR, THAT tarrasque (the sleeper) is now dead OR he was killed/hindered temporarily.
You know, it might be interesting if there are "sleeper spawn".... or basically the tarrasque breeding with standard dinosaurs, dire crocodiles, or other large reptile like entities like dragons, land drakes, behirs, etc.... Maybe this creates a much larger, stronger, and more aggressive version of said creatures. Hell, the humans of Katashaka may have been "milking" the sleeper for seed to use in experimentation in creating new species, and as weird as that sounds... maybe that kept him docile....
LOL, and apparently I'm not the first to think of making a "half-tarrasque" template. Granted, I wouldn't use this, but it makes a basis. The idea that you could only breed a tarrasque with something large and vaguely reptilian/draconic would be a big requirement in my book just to make it somewhat remotely believable.
https://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Half-Tarrasque_(3.5e_Template) |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 14 Mar 2018 11:49:46 |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 13:28:25
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-sleyvas
Well, in context, this may also explain the origins of the Reptilian Gargantuas, and the giant reptiles of Falx - the spawn of the Tarrasque, and other (reptile or reptile-like) lifeforms... |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Mar 2018 : 19:52:12
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I've been away from thinking about these Western Realms - I am trying to work on only those things I think will be of the most use to the largest number of people. Not that I am giving up on Katshaka/Maztica, I am just trying to focus my energies for a change (not that that is working out too well either LOL).
As for the Terrasque - I do like the idea that those are NOT terrasques on that planet - that they are some sort of cheap imitations, or may be even 'spawn of'. In fact, we could possibly even combine ideas and say that in D&D, all kaiju are just normal creatures with a terrasque template (or call it the kaiju template, but connect it to the Terrasque - say the thing has some sort of unique system of breading - it 'injects' its eggs into other large creatures, and those things come out looking like a composite creature, sort of how the Aliens work in the Alien movies). Then the young all eat each other until there is only one left. Maybe that's why this thing appears every so often - its some sort of 'cosmic creature' that shows up on worlds just to 'breed', and then it moves on (after its defeated). Like some sort of avatar of Entropy (not THE Entropy lol - more like the concept of it than the thing in FR). Like a 'Force of Nature', it shows up and creates new 'top of the food-chain' creatures, perhaps to 'maintain the balance', or some-such. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 14 Mar 2018 19:56:15 |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2018 : 17:03:42
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Just a random thought. Do you think the city of Manifest (from the Ghostwalk campaign sourcebook), in an altered, updated and Realmsified form, could fit in Katashaka? If you’re interested - that might be my contribution to your version of the continent.
Come to think of it, that might work with incarnum as well. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2018 : 18:09:08
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| I'll have to take a look. I am trying to complete 5 other maps ATM and one is very close, and I now have real work to do (I came out of retirement - someone made me an offer I couldn't refuse). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2018 : 19:31:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Just a random thought. Do you think the city of Manifest (from the Ghostwalk campaign sourcebook), in an altered, updated and Realmsified form, could fit in Katashaka? If you’re interested - that might be my contribution to your version of the continent.
Come to think of it, that might work with incarnum as well.
Hmmm, had never looked at Ghostwalk, but I'm checking it out. They've got these "deathwarden" dwarves that guarded it. However, what if instead there was involvement with death and shadow giants. Souls that must be punished maybe are given over to the death giants. The idea of a city of living and dead souls working together could well fit as something that's in the area where the Nyama-Nummo are located (making it hard to reach). It would definitely need some work, but worth pondering. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2018 : 19:42:16
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Death Giants and putting it in that central spot where the Terrasque sleeps sounds perfect (from what little I recall - I only paged-through Ghostwalk years ago and don't remember that much). Excellent call, Slevas. It definitely might be worth tweaking!
...and now, because I mistyped 'tweaked' at first, I am picturing 'twerking' death giants. That will definitely scare folks away. 
EDIT:
Maybe the energy from all the undead ('spirit/soul energy') is what is needed to keep the terrasque asleep? Something along those lines? The place needs to remain 'undisturbed' as much as possible? Maybe the 'Tarasajok' (Watcher of The Sleeper) is supposed to be the only living person in the city? That might work. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Mar 2018 19:46:22 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11850 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2018 : 00:03:29
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| Hmmm, and thinking on it a bit more, if I'm saying "put this in a place where they nyama-nummo are" maybe having a "death god" living in the city would work.. ruling over the death and shadow giants, as well as a tribe of mortals with a bone fetish. This place being a trap of sorts where the souls of all who die within a certain range are unable to escape to the Fugue Plane. I had not originally wanted a necromantic society in Katashaka, but this could work. Of course, then spell out that this "death god" is not in fact a god, but is in fact a patron for warlocks who is trying to become a god. Maybe he's an ascended fog giant wielding dinosaur bone weapons, etc.... infused with necromantic energy (and I make him different so that he can be the pale god of death amongst these dark skinned giants). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Maztica Alive! Workshop
