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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Jun 2014 : 21:27:46
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Okay, so I feel guilty about giving a bad review of Ed's writing, when he is a genius in the creation of the Realms. But, for me, at least, his writing isn't always on par with his creation. Much of the story felt rushed, particularly the the end. There is a lot going on in The Herald, and IMO, it should have either been thicker, or divided into 2 books (though I know it was the last of the Sundering, so Ed had to wrap things up in one novel).
I'm not happy about the destruction of Myth Drannor; it totally negates the Last Mythal trilogy, and it was only around again for about a century. At least Fflar and Ilsevele survive.
My disappointment is also in the Sundering as a whole, as is being discussed in other threads. For all Wizards attempts to "make this about the mortals and not the gods", the ending of the Herald was very deus ex machina. Mystra is revealed in the last few pages, thwarts Shar, and everything is right--aside of course, from the destruction of Myth Drannor. As I've said before, I like stories about gods and their followers, but again, this felt rushed.
El's unleashing of various creatures he's imprisoned over the centuries also felt random. Where did all these "handily imprisoned" creatures come from? Perhaps they were from books I haven't read or don't remember, but even so, El's releasing of them to hinder the mercenary armies seemed forced. Also somewhat random was Alustrial and Laeral's hiding ib Candlekeep when the world thought they were dead. Now, don't get me wrong, I like them both, but...really?
As mentioned in another thread, the Sundering was likely a marketing ploy by Wizards, and we have to wait for the actual campaign setting to come out before we are privvy to the full results, but the novels, while decent in themselves, were disappointing as a series and in relation to the Sundering. Oh, much was hinted at or alluded to, but the RSE to end all RSEs was a letdown, IMO.
All that said, it was a good read in itself, and I finished it in three days (I've had a lot of time on my hands lately). I would like to see a sequal.
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Sweet water and light laughter |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2014 : 05:09:15
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I enjoyed it (read it in two days). The characters were well-written and memorable (as always). I'm not really concerned about whether this is the RSE that it was (supposedly) built-up to be.
Also, based on Ed's reply in the other scroll, its clear that Myth Drannor as a whole has not been destroyed. The center has been flattened by falling Shade, and there is a lot of war-related destruction elsewhere (along with lots of bodies), but its not utterly obliterated. Presumably it will be reclaimed & rebuilt by the elves in time.
So its more of a big setback, rather than a cataclysm, as far as Myth Drannor and the elven Return is concerned, especially compared to what has happened to the Shadovar.
I was surprised that Mystra's Chosen hid in Candlekeep, but the explanation was fair enough.
It makes me think that Queen Amlaruil of Evermeet may also make a surprise come-back; as of 4e, she is 'gone'. I wonder where she's hiding?  |
Edited by - BenN on 06 Jun 2014 05:10:47 |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4689 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2014 : 05:38:37
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| One thing to always remember, WotC has edit control of even what Ed writes. With all those NDAs in place we likely will not know soon if ever on how much the final product of any Ed novel is what Ed wanted and how much WotC wanted. There appear to be valid NDAs nearing if not exceeding 20 years still in place. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2014 : 06:39:45
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I'm not saying it was terrible, I just thought it felt rushed, and some things seem kind of random. Ed is a genius when it comes to the Realms, but I guess I was just disappointed in the Sundering as a whole, even if the novels were good in and of themselves. I was expecting more. But you have a point, Kentinal, we don't know how much of it was Ed and how much of it was WotC, since the authors only have certain material to work with. I felt the novel could have been better, but it held my interest, and was a good read, I was just expecting more. Part of that is because of the hype that was built up.
BenN, what thread did Ed mention that in? Is it the questions for Ed one? I don't always check that one |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2014 : 06:47:54
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| Never mind, answered that question myself lol |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Devvra
Acolyte
Poland
3 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jun 2014 : 18:15:12
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| My heart is broken because of this book :( |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2014 : 00:21:12
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Okay, so I feel guilty about giving a bad review of Ed's writing, when he is a genius in the creation of the Realms. But, for me, at least, his writing isn't always on par with his creation. Much of the story felt rushed, particularly the the end. There is a lot going on in The Herald, and IMO, it should have either been thicker, or divided into 2 books (though I know it was the last of the Sundering, so Ed had to wrap things up in one novel).
I'm not happy about the destruction of Myth Drannor; it totally negates the Last Mythal trilogy, and it was only around again for about a century. At least Fflar and Ilsevele survive.
My disappointment is also in the Sundering as a whole, as is being discussed in other threads. For all Wizards attempts to "make this about the mortals and not the gods", the ending of the Herald was very deus ex machina. Mystra is revealed in the last few pages, thwarts Shar, and everything is right--aside of course, from the destruction of Myth Drannor. As I've said before, I like stories about gods and their followers, but again, this felt rushed.
El's unleashing of various creatures he's imprisoned over the centuries also felt random. Where did all these "handily imprisoned" creatures come from? Perhaps they were from books I haven't read or don't remember, but even so, El's releasing of them to hinder the mercenary armies seemed forced. Also somewhat random was Alustrial and Laeral's hiding ib Candlekeep when the world thought they were dead. Now, don't get me wrong, I like them both, but...really?
As mentioned in another thread, the Sundering was likely a marketing ploy by Wizards, and we have to wait for the actual campaign setting to come out before we are privvy to the full results, but the novels, while decent in themselves, were disappointing as a series and in relation to the Sundering. Oh, much was hinted at or alluded to, but the RSE to end all RSEs was a letdown, IMO.
All that said, it was a good read in itself, and I finished it in three days (I've had a lot of time on my hands lately). I would like to see a sequal.
The destruction of Shade bothered me just as much as Myth Drannor. I heard peeps it would be depowered, but outright destroyed? And truth be told, having Telamont and Larloch just pwned in a few short paragraphs by El and Srinshee ruined the book for me.
The end of the book ruined it for me. It was an epic buildup into what could have been a few great chapters of all out Magewar between the superpowers. We saw some great mage battles over the years. Kesson Rel vs Cale/Riven/Rivalen. The lichdrow vs Gromph. You know.....fights that took more than a paragraph to end and were epic. In fact, some of them took several chapters.
That was the sort of thing I thought it was building up to.
Instead, it was "oh, and then this happens, and Elminster gets superpowered, and Crushes Telamont in seconds and shade is destroyed" and "oh, and Srinshee shows up, Larloch screams NOOOOOOO and is done for"
I was hooked on the book most of the way and could not put it down. Kind of like Dexter seasons 1-4. Then it quickly became Dexter season 8(Terrible)
Greenwood as always, is a brilliant arcitech. He deserves all the credit in the world for creating the realms and he even tells good stories and has good buildup. But he really should let others write the ends of his books and the final battles. I am not kidding.
The buzzkill from that ending actually makes me worry about the realms. The realms was a far more interesting place with Shade around. Telamont actually looked like an inept wuss. Not at all as he was portrayed in other better series like return of the Archwizards or the Twilight wars.
GRRRRRRRRRRRRR |
Edited by - Firestorm on 07 Jun 2014 00:29:41 |
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Devvra
Acolyte
Poland
3 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2014 : 08:24:21
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| Yeah, it was pretty bad. Telamont and Larloch were more powerful than Srinshee and Elminster. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2014 : 08:40:15
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You're wrong about the Srinshee...she has been portrayed as quite likely the most powerful mage on Toril in the few places she's been described. As for Telamont and Larloch being more powerful than El, you are correct (though I would say that Telamont was on par with El rather than more powerful).
I give the book 3 out of 5 stars overall. Mostly because of the ending because A)it felt rushed to me as well (I said in another thread that each author should have been allowed a trilogy to tell their stories), B) I would have preferred more in-depth battles between the superpowers, and C) I hate, HATE, that the wards of Candlekeep and Myth Drannor's mythal were drained.
I didn't mind Shade falling...I didn't like the floating city's return as I always felt that era of magic should have stayed in the past. I would have preferred someone had found a new way to create a floating city rather than Shade's return (just my opinion there).
I actually liked that Alustriel and Laeral fought with El...I wasn't expecting that so it came as a very nice surprise.
The release of critters was okay. I can see how the OP felt it was 'random' but I liked it well enough. El has been known to do such things in other novels.
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I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2014 : 10:28:01
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Someone seriously needs to help these authors realize that it is not their job to be creating interesting characters and then killing them off. Powerful and interesting characters represent opportunities for more interesting lore and more interesting stories. Especially in a novels based on a D&D setting, they should leave things more open-ended and complex.
Shade and its inhabitants, the likes of Larloch... generally more interesting than placeholders like Elminster.
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It seems Wizards decided to respond childishly to the negative reviews 4E got by just reverting stuff, rather than trying to create interesting new stuff, or trying to think about how to better handle the new stuff they had created and merge it with the old.
The greater magical civilizations represent their own set of possibilities for stories, separate from the more primitive areas of Toril. They are good to have.
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Elminster is generally not a great character. He's more of a wish fulfillment character (for certain people). A magically powerful lech with a hot goddess at his back... Just not classy enough to seem right defeating greater characters... Its like if you had Jar Jar Binks in Mandalorian armor defeat Darth Vader... Lame idea. |
Edited by - Zsych on 07 Jun 2014 10:44:14 |
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Elsenrail
Seeker
Poland
72 Posts |
Posted - 07 Jun 2014 : 19:14:49
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Sadly, this book was the worst of the series. I tried to like it, but I couldn't. It felt so childish at many moments with those overpowered characters and deux et machina resolutions. As I recall, these Chosen of Mystra were removed in 4e for this very reason. Now they are back... while all the bad guys who could stand against them are dead (?). When Elminster or Storm fought, I never felt that they were in any real danger. I prefer novels that are more believable. When Storm was killing everything en masse... please... Even in game mechanics your opponent may role a 20.
Destruction of Shade is not a good idea IMO. It could loose its influence (because it was overused in recent years), but a howering city of Netheril arcanists made the Realms more interesting. I was really looking forward to the duel between Elminster and Telamont, but it was so rushed and short. I am very disappointed. I hope the FRCS turns out good. I know that there are many supporters of Ed Greenwood here. I'm grateful for the world he has created, but actually I find his characters to be very shallow and uninteresting. |
Edited by - Elsenrail on 07 Jun 2014 19:16:30 |
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entreri00
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 00:46:27
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Well almost anything to reverse all the dumb spellplague, merging of fake world and other nonsense. However, the archwizards themselves were pretty cool and Shar has been a good antagonist for many novels now. It's mainly the contradictory personality and power portrayal of Telamont that doesn't make sense. He's been shown as wise, a good reader of people, powerful, careful, not a Shar fanatic like Rivalen. He's already gone toe-to-toe with all the Chosen and driven them with help. The idea that any Chosen, Lich or Archwizard dwarfs the others in power is silly. It should take genuine effort to beat one. The idea that either he or Shar would risk everything merely on Myth Drannor doesn't wash. The only ones with a real advantage were the Chosen with the silver fire which has always been a bit of a cheat since it first appeared. They should have to rely on contingencies and potions like the rest. I can't even tell what they really did to beat Larloch and Telamont from the description. Srinshee power dump? Srinshee power dump and floating city siphon? I dunno. We're getting low on Seven Sisters though. Interesting to see Dove although her small smattering of appeances down the decades doesn't really make her loss tug too hard. I think I've seen her thrice now. Maybe four times. Let's see: this book, short story with Mirt, Spellfire?. That's all I recall. I wonder where we might rank the Sojourner amongst these folks. I guess Szass sat this one out while Larloch was trying for dominion over all.
I think we will miss the Archwizard dominance. Peerless villains in the long history of the realms books. Noone else could give the Drow pause, make you wonder if Cormyr would make it, etc. Have to come up with something new for the next big show. |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jun 2014 : 02:58:15
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One of the overall themes I'm getting from the book is that the power of the major countries/realms (Cormyr, Sembia, Cormanthor, the Zhents, not to mention Shade) has been greatly weakened. In other words, compared to the 3e & 4e Realms, from now on there will be less emphasis on great armies marching around, great battles & campaigns etc, and more room for small bands of adventurers to make a difference. Consider this quote from Ed in his Questions For... scroll:
quote:
The surviving mercenaries are foraging/pillaging/behaving like brigands, and Sembia is in such disarray that there's no chance of Sembia (or for that matter, any other realm) reaching in to annex or occupy the ruins
So basically Myth Drannor is being set up as a big new adventure playground for PCs, with the elves too weak to take full control themselves, requiring help from bands of adventurers to get rid of brigands, wandering monsters etc. |
Edited by - BenN on 17 Jun 2014 02:59:18 |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2014 : 01:04:39
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Okay, so I feel guilty about giving a bad review of Ed's writing, when he is a genius in the creation of the Realms. But, for me, at least, his writing isn't always on par with his creation. Much of the story felt rushed, particularly the the end. There is a lot going on in The Herald, and IMO, it should have either been thicker, or divided into 2 books (though I know it was the last of the Sundering, so Ed had to wrap things up in one novel).
I'm not happy about the destruction of Myth Drannor; it totally negates the Last Mythal trilogy, and it was only around again for about a century. At least Fflar and Ilsevele survive.
My disappointment is also in the Sundering as a whole, as is being discussed in other threads. For all Wizards attempts to "make this about the mortals and not the gods", the ending of the Herald was very deus ex machina. Mystra is revealed in the last few pages, thwarts Shar, and everything is right--aside of course, from the destruction of Myth Drannor. As I've said before, I like stories about gods and their followers, but again, this felt rushed.
El's unleashing of various creatures he's imprisoned over the centuries also felt random. Where did all these "handily imprisoned" creatures come from? Perhaps they were from books I haven't read or don't remember, but even so, El's releasing of them to hinder the mercenary armies seemed forced. Also somewhat random was Alustrial and Laeral's hiding ib Candlekeep when the world thought they were dead. Now, don't get me wrong, I like them both, but...really?
As mentioned in another thread, the Sundering was likely a marketing ploy by Wizards, and we have to wait for the actual campaign setting to come out before we are privvy to the full results, but the novels, while decent in themselves, were disappointing as a series and in relation to the Sundering. Oh, much was hinted at or alluded to, but the RSE to end all RSEs was a letdown, IMO.
All that said, it was a good read in itself, and I finished it in three days (I've had a lot of time on my hands lately). I would like to see a sequal.
Just finished. Getting through the Sundering felt like work. Good work, but work none the less. The writers and WoTC pushing and pulling the stories in order to get the Realms back to some sort of default state was obvious from the start. I felt that Erin Evans book was the only one that had the proper time put into it.
But it's all done now, the work is complete. Now I hope that WoTC gets back to the business of telling proper well thought out stories. |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
556 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jun 2014 : 03:46:07
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quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout
Okay, so I feel guilty about giving a bad review of Ed's writing, when he is a genius in the creation of the Realms. But, for me, at least, his writing isn't always on par with his creation. Much of the story felt rushed, particularly the the end. There is a lot going on in The Herald, and IMO, it should have either been thicker, or divided into 2 books (though I know it was the last of the Sundering, so Ed had to wrap things up in one novel).
Agreed I do cut Ed some slack just due to the sheer score of what he had to tie up.
quote:
I'm not happy about the destruction of Myth Drannor; it totally negates the Last Mythal trilogy, and it was only around again for about a century. At least Fflar and Ilsevele survive.
Agreed Myth Drannor pretty much IS the realms not a smart thing to do if the plan was to go back to what worked. Speaking of "The Last Mythal". Should Araevin have played a big part in this? He doesn't even get an honorable mention.
quote:
My disappointment is also in the Sundering as a whole, as is being discussed in other threads. For all Wizards attempts to "make this about the mortals and not the gods", the ending of the Herald was very deus ex machina. Mystra is revealed in the last few pages, thwarts Shar, and everything is right--aside of course, from the destruction of Myth Drannor. As I've said before, I like stories about gods and their followers, but again, this felt rushed.
Yep rushed and not well fleshed out . Exactly what happened to Larloch at the end? Mind you the best part of the novel for me was the first meeting between El and Larloch - I LOVED that!
quote:
El's unleashing of various creatures he's imprisoned over the centuries also felt random. Where did all these "handily imprisoned" creatures come from? Perhaps they were from books I haven't read or don't remember, but even so, El's releasing of them to hinder the mercenary armies seemed forced. Also somewhat random was Alustrial and Laeral's hiding ib Candlekeep when the world thought they were dead. Now, don't get me wrong, I like them both, but...really?
Is an earthbound DracoLich, a Beholder, a Mindflayer and an elder black dragon enough to turn back an army of serveral thousands? In all of El's battles these were the most interesting monsters Ed could come up with? How about an Elder evil tossed in there somewhere....And this army...it had to be the most MUNDANE army anyone could think of. Was the Mythal the reason for that? No mages or summoned creatures allowed? But what about when it weakened?
quote:
As mentioned in another thread, the Sundering was likely a marketing ploy by Wizards, and we have to wait for the actual campaign setting to come out before we are privvy to the full results, but the novels, while decent in themselves, were disappointing as a series and in relation to the Sundering. Oh, much was hinted at or alluded to, but the RSE to end all RSEs was a letdown, IMO.
All that said, it was a good read in itself, and I finished it in three days (I've had a lot of time on my hands lately). I would like to see a sequal.
Yes it was still good. The expectations were all sky high based on the hype , the author, and the fact that this was the last novel. |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jun 2014 : 00:39:19
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| If nothing else, the novel firmly established that lady The Hooded One was the titular Herald. ;) |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jul 2014 : 23:37:02
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| I don't mind spoilers.... so.... is Telamont dead? |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2014 : 03:25:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
I don't mind spoilers.... so.... is Telamont dead?
Yep. I mean, being legalistic, you could bring him back, but it's a huge stretch if you do.
I for one, don't mind his death being over in less than a page. If you watch a Olympic Fencing match, each round is over in seconds. This drawn-out stuff is pure fiction. It can be good fiction, two masters just throwing attacks, feeling each other out before finally ending it, but it's by no means required for a good story.
Overall, I liked the book. There were some parts that did feel a little rushed, and if THO hadn't explained that Myth Drannor wasn't totally obliterated, I'd be sad, but overall I'm pleased.
Now to send my PC's on a mission to aid in restoring Candlekeep. The Old Sage let the gremlins out.... |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2014 : 12:21:10
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| Telemont being slain so quick like that is ludicrous. So are any of the Princes of Shade still alive?? |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2014 : 15:46:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Telemont being slain so quick like that is ludicrous. So are any of the Princes of Shade still alive??
I'm honestly not sure. If memory serves, at least one Prince died in every Sundering book. Some books more than that.
[Edit Just a quick look at the FR Wiki, Clariburnus, Dethud, Yder, and Aglarel are unaccounted for. I'm not sure about the last two, though. I think they got killed in The Herald, but I'm going to have to double check.]
As for Telemont ... without going into too much detail, the guy had been bleeding HP/Stamina like crazy trying to perform a ritual (and I'll admit, I'm reading game terms into a novel, so it's easily debatable.) If anything, he did take pages, even chapters to die. He just wasn't toe-toe fighting someone for those pages, he was performing a magical ritual that drained him of HP to complete. The final blow did only take a paragraph or two, but El essentially stepped in when the guy was exhausted, down to single digits, and took advantage of the situation rather than toss down the gauntlet and request Telemont heal up and fight it out on even ground.
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- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
Edited by - Delwa on 17 Jul 2014 15:55:59 |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2014 : 16:27:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Telemont being slain so quick like that is ludicrous. So are any of the Princes of Shade still alive??
I'm honestly not sure. If memory serves, at least one Prince died in every Sundering book. Some books more than that.
[Edit Just a quick look at the FR Wiki, Clariburnus, Dethud, Yder, and Aglarel are unaccounted for. I'm not sure about the last two, though. I think they got killed in The Herald, but I'm going to have to double check.]
As for Telemont ... without going into too much detail, the guy had been bleeding HP/Stamina like crazy trying to perform a ritual (and I'll admit, I'm reading game terms into a novel, so it's easily debatable.) If anything, he did take pages, even chapters to die. He just wasn't toe-toe fighting someone for those pages, he was performing a magical ritual that drained him of HP to complete. The final blow did only take a paragraph or two, but El essentially stepped in when the guy was exhausted, down to single digits, and took advantage of the situation rather than toss down the gauntlet and request Telemont heal up and fight it out on even ground.
Yder was killed in the sentinel |
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Delwa
Master of Realmslore
USA
1271 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2014 : 20:26:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Telemont being slain so quick like that is ludicrous. So are any of the Princes of Shade still alive??
I'm honestly not sure. If memory serves, at least one Prince died in every Sundering book. Some books more than that.
[Edit Just a quick look at the FR Wiki, Clariburnus, Dethud, Yder, and Aglarel are unaccounted for. I'm not sure about the last two, though. I think they got killed in The Herald, but I'm going to have to double check.]
As for Telemont ... without going into too much detail, the guy had been bleeding HP/Stamina like crazy trying to perform a ritual (and I'll admit, I'm reading game terms into a novel, so it's easily debatable.) If anything, he did take pages, even chapters to die. He just wasn't toe-toe fighting someone for those pages, he was performing a magical ritual that drained him of HP to complete. The final blow did only take a paragraph or two, but El essentially stepped in when the guy was exhausted, down to single digits, and took advantage of the situation rather than toss down the gauntlet and request Telemont heal up and fight it out on even ground.
Yder was killed in the sentinel
Thank you. I've been juggling too many books at once lately and they're all getting confused. So that leaves two, possibly three Princes of Shade still around. |
- Delwa Aunglor
I am off to slay yon refrigerator and spoil it's horde. Go for the cheese, Boo!
"The Realms change; seldom at the speed desired of those who strive, but far too quickly for those who resist." - The Simbul, taken from the Forgotten Realms Campaign Conspectus |
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2014 : 13:54:53
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| Are the Shadow Illusionist twins still alive anyone know? |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jul 2014 : 07:17:41
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| For those who lament the defeat of Telemont, he's only dead in this book. This is D&D so there is no reason you can't bring him back. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2014 : 06:24:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Telemont being slain so quick like that is ludicrous. So are any of the Princes of Shade still alive??
I'm honestly not sure. If memory serves, at least one Prince died in every Sundering book. Some books more than that.
[Edit Just a quick look at the FR Wiki, Clariburnus, Dethud, Yder, and Aglarel are unaccounted for. I'm not sure about the last two, though. I think they got killed in The Herald, but I'm going to have to double check.]
As for Telemont ... without going into too much detail, the guy had been bleeding HP/Stamina like crazy trying to perform a ritual (and I'll admit, I'm reading game terms into a novel, so it's easily debatable.) If anything, he did take pages, even chapters to die. He just wasn't toe-toe fighting someone for those pages, he was performing a magical ritual that drained him of HP to complete. The final blow did only take a paragraph or two, but El essentially stepped in when the guy was exhausted, down to single digits, and took advantage of the situation rather than toss down the gauntlet and request Telemont heal up and fight it out on even ground.
Yder was killed in the sentinel
Yder's death irked me too. I liked the story's protagonist, Kleef Kenrick, but he emphasized everything that is irksome about Chosen. I'm not talking about Mystra's Chosen here, who actually earned their powers. I'm talking about characters that basically have a bunch of power heaped on them to move the plot along more quickly. Kleef was a good swordsman, certainly not on Drizzt level, and probably not even on pre-Chosen Erevis Cale level. All of a sudden, he's powerful enough to manhandle the greatest warrior in Shade, because Helm randomly decides to give him some cool new powers. |
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Mothor
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2014 : 08:57:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Delwa
quote:
Originally posted by Copper Elven Vampire
Telemont being slain so quick like that is ludicrous. So are any of the Princes of Shade still alive??
I'm honestly not sure. If memory serves, at least one Prince died in every Sundering book. Some books more than that.
[Edit Just a quick look at the FR Wiki, Clariburnus, Dethud, Yder, and Aglarel are unaccounted for. I'm not sure about the last two, though. I think they got killed in The Herald, but I'm going to have to double check.]
As for Telemont ... without going into too much detail, the guy had been bleeding HP/Stamina like crazy trying to perform a ritual (and I'll admit, I'm reading game terms into a novel, so it's easily debatable.) If anything, he did take pages, even chapters to die. He just wasn't toe-toe fighting someone for those pages, he was performing a magical ritual that drained him of HP to complete. The final blow did only take a paragraph or two, but El essentially stepped in when the guy was exhausted, down to single digits, and took advantage of the situation rather than toss down the gauntlet and request Telemont heal up and fight it out on even ground.
Yder was killed in the sentinel
Yder's death irked me too. I liked the story's protagonist, Kleef Kenrick, but he emphasized everything that is irksome about Chosen. I'm not talking about Mystra's Chosen here, who actually earned their powers. I'm talking about characters that basically have a bunch of power heaped on them to move the plot along more quickly. Kleef was a good swordsman, certainly not on Drizzt level, and probably not even on pre-Chosen Erevis Cale level. All of a sudden, he's powerful enough to manhandle the greatest warrior in Shade, because Helm randomly decides to give him some cool new powers.
Villains sadly seem to always lose to the heroes whether its due to being weaker, being too arrogant, a deus ex machina interference,bad luck or just because.
Personally the reason I kinda liked the shadowar was because they actually looked like competent villains. Because the looked like an actual threat.
It is hard to cheer for the protagonists(unless they are villains) since we know that there is quite a low chance for them to actually lose.
Unfortunately the shadovar were seemingly not liked among the readers and so it seems that WotC higher ups decided to take them out of the picture by killing most(if not all) figures of note among them.
The 4th edition may have been a bit too gloomy with the world being so messed up by the baddies, but now it looks like WotC decided to take the opposite extreme and make it all rainbows, hearts and butterflies and messing all the baddies especially the less popular ones. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jul 2014 : 15:14:22
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The less popular ones? 3E and 4E hardly featured any threats that weren't the Shadovar, and they were inexplicably successful.
To me, returning to the status of having many potential bad guy groups, instead of one that just keeps popping up everywhere, is a good thing. |
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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ywhtptgtfo
Seeker
89 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jul 2014 : 06:40:31
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IMHO, I am never a big fan of Ed's writing. He's a good world designer but the novels are often very corny. Here are some of the common themes I don't like:
1. Almost every notable character is physically attractive... be it pretty, handsome, muscular, etc. Dan Brown falls into this trap too.
2. Very powerful good characters are often lurking in the background (if not directly involved). They always outclass the bad characters by several quadrillion order
3. There's usually only good and evil characters. Good characters almost never have contradicting agenda and are usually one big happy family.
4. Demeanor of characters are overtly dramatic most of the time. This makes them feel a bit artificial
Ironically, I find the portrayal of Ed's characters in "The Simbul's Gift" to be by far the best I've ever seen in FR novels... and that book's written by someone else. |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 00:39:30
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Having finally gotten around to reading this book:
While I did enjoy the book, I share several of the misgivings that people have already mentioned.
- I liked Rune and Delclath a lot more in the previous books. In this one they were kind of just there.
- Ed always has a tendency to make the villains in his books look incompetent. The Telamont in The Herald is nothing compared to the Telamont portrayed in Troy Denning's and Paul S Kemp's books.
- Hate it that both Myth Drannor and Shade got destroyed. Yeah, I know THO already mentioned that Myth Drannor isn't gone for good, but now that I read the book, it's pretty obvious that this was one major setback for the elves. By the end of the book it pretty much looks like that the Myth Drannor elves were all slaughtered down to less than a dozen fighters, leaving only the elderly and the children. Shade is pretty much nothing now. They just erased one of the coolest things that happened in the Realm (the reclamation of Myth Drannor) and also one of the very few credible threats in the Realms. Even though technically, Ed did leave a possible way for the princes of Shade (and Telamont too I guess) to come back, Shade is still reduced to little more than nothing. Very disappointing.
- I hate it that Dove was brought into the book just to be killed off. Ed should have just left her alone. The Srinshee gives off the same vibe, but at least there was a really good reason for her to be there. Dove's presence was just pretty much random. When I saw characters start dieing I was also expecting the rest of the sisters to get offed. I wonder if Alustriel only survived because Salvatore might want her back in Silverymoon.
- I really liked Larloch until he gave the corny speech where Elminster was rolling his eyes. The character's credibility took a major nosedive then.
- I actually liked the sections with Mirt, but it's hard to ignore that they had a very tenuous connection with the rest of the book. Manshoon continues to be a bumbling idiot. I really REALLY hope that the original Manshoon is still around somewhere and that he's one awesome badass to wipe away the stains that his clones are. One final note about this: I don't really understand how they went from a room where Manshoon is cornered by several high priests and war wizards to a room in the Queen Fee having drinks.
- Finally, everyone gets together at the end to celebrate but no mention of Dove being killed? Certainly Mystra was aware of what happened. I'm guessing that Midnight is still Mystra given her sentence saying "that she inherited the title of Mother"? Though she missing Storm's stew doesn't make her seem Midnight, unless she paid visits to Storm after she ascended to godhood.
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
One thing to always remember, WotC has edit control of even what Ed writes. With all those NDAs in place we likely will not know soon if ever on how much the final product of any Ed novel is what Ed wanted and how much WotC wanted. There appear to be valid NDAs nearing if not exceeding 20 years still in place.
You know, it's also possible that Ed wrote something that someone disliked. You can't blame it all on WotC editing when Ed has been writing in this style since forever. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3806 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 01:16:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
When I saw characters start dieing I was also expecting the rest of the sisters to get offed. I wonder if Alustriel only survived because Salvatore might want her back in Silverymoon.
Is Alustriel the only sister to be alive now? What about Laeral? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2014 : 04:32:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
- Hate it that both Myth Drannor and Shade got destroyed. Yeah, I know THO already mentioned that Myth Drannor isn't gone for good, but now that I read the book, it's pretty obvious that this was one major setback for the elves. By the end of the book it pretty much looks like that the Myth Drannor elves were all slaughtered down to less than a dozen fighters, leaving only the elderly and the children.
I agree with you about Myth Drannor, but I think there are more survivors than that. Via THO, Ed said that most of the non-combatants had already got out before the siege bang in earnest, and that of 6,500 defenders, about 5,000 were killed, and when the Coronal finally retreats to Semberholme
quote:
There were elves everywhere around around her, in bloody armor, swords in their hands, weeping and embracing
As the Tree of Souls has survived, presumably the elves will want to reclaim the city as soon as they can; but where can they expect to get help/reinforcements from? I guess this is a set-up for a new adventure for PCs.
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Is Alustriel the only sister to be alive now? What about Laeral?
Most of them are alive IIRC; only Dove died in the novel. |
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My review of the Herald *spoilers*
