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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
 Posted - 01 May 2014 : 23:30:19
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ah bahamut and tiamat........ those two did not come from the rw deities of the same name.
those two came from greyahwk.
here is why, tiamat iirc was a serpent style in appearance( from its description on wikipedia, a naga might be a bettere description) and bahamut was a giant fish and in dnd tiamat is a 5 headed dragon and bahamut is a platinum dragon |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
Edited by - sfdragon on 01 May 2014 23:31:57 |
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Aldrick
Senior Scribe
909 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 00:50:38
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
ah bahamut and tiamat........ those two did not come from the rw deities of the same name.
those two came from greyahwk.
Yeah, I know. They just lifted the names, which is my point. They were not trying to say: "This is Bahamut and Tiamat from the real world." Tyr is very similar. There is some loose hypothetical Norse connections, but in terms of Realms canon he's a pretty separate and distinctive deity.
When I talk about Tyr in the Realms, I don't think about Tyr of Norse Mythology. Similarly, when I talk about Tiamat or Bahamut, I don't think about their real world counterparts either. Though, admittedly, with Unther in the Realms the whole Tiamat issue gets unnecessarily muddled.
If they just did what Ateth did in his home Realms - renaming the deities - a lot of the issues Mulhorand and Unther faced could have been greatly lessened. |
Edited by - Aldrick on 02 May 2014 00:51:53 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11992 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 01:55:54
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
I don't have anything against getting inspiration from RW stuff. I just think that importing it without changing it lowers the originality of the setting. It's lazy design, and in this particular case (the Egyptian pantheon) I think that it contributed to Mulhorand being removed from the Realms in 4e. Mulhorand itself could come back, if WotC decides to do that, but it's unlikely because what would they do with the new Deep Imaskari culture? The Egyptian pantheon, imo, is probably gone for good.
It may be gone for good. I hope it isn't. As to the new Deep Imaskari / High Imaskari culture.... personally, I like the idea that they get displaced and are forced to join up with another surrounding magocracy. That magocracy may be Thay. That magocracy may be the Stygia like "United tharchions of the Shaar" that I've discussed where displaced Thayans form a new country in the south eastern realms. Or they may go into the Raurin desert/ plains of purple dust and try to start a new civilization.... or they may carve something out of the hordelands or Zakhara. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11992 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 02:03:11
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| Oh, and further on the idea of the High Imaskari culture being displace and joining up with what I call "the United Tharchions of the Shaar"... it makes for an interesting thing, because they would be allying with a group that wasn't exactly fond of Mulhorand, but at the same time they also aren't exactly fond of Old Thay either. So, you'd have Mulhorand hating "Old" Thay and "New-twisted" Thay... then "New-twisted" Thay hates Mulhorand and "Old Thay".... and "Old Thay" hates "New-Twisted" Thay and Mulhorand. Then throw in the shadovar.... aka ex-Netherese... possibly throwing in with "Old Thay".... and the Imaskari who probably had their own enmity with the ancient Netheril..... The East becomes a bunch of back-stabbing countries. Make Mulhorand a little more Imperial minded and aggressive, but not overtly evil, and it could be very interesting. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 04:45:43
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| high imaskar= new halruua |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Mournblade
Master of Realmslore
USA
1288 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 13:21:20
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quote:
Originally posted by xaeyruudh
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
adding alt names would increase the word count and something else would get cut.
Too true. Yea, I think adding optional names would be tacky. People would be asking "well, is this the deity's name or not?" And the answer would be "if you want it to be" and that wouldn't make anyone happy. 
Either give them Realmsian names or don't, but either way they need some personality. Not because I want to see a bunch more novels about gods; I don't. But the personality of the gods shapes the personality and tenets of the church, and that is important for DMs and players.
As a 2nd edition player I am assuming you are familiar with FAITHS AND AVATARS and POWERS AND PANTHEONS. These books gave alot of personality to the churches/worshiping of the gods. This work alone made many of the shared earth gods unique and distinct from their counterparts on earth.
WOTC essentially nullified that fantastic resource, I would say even in 3rd edition. The 3rd edition equivalent was more a deities and demigods than a fully descriptive text of the gods and their worshipers.
I would argue that in realms lore the personalities of the gods followers are (were?) well illustrated. In 3rd edition lack of knowledge of that resource existing to many new players and maybe even some writers was a cause for the apparent lack of personality of the gods.
Faiths and Avatars is one of the most valuable CULTURAL resources for the realms.
I love RA Salvatore books. I think it would resonate better if Drizzt had the title Hawk of the Lady, which is granted to the favored followers of Mielikki. I understand it is not always time efficient to research these sources, but I really wish WOTC would have required authors using gods or followers of gods to read the material in FAITHS AND AVATARS.
It would have done alot to bringing the personality into the Novels, instead of reserving it for the Forgotten Realms Lore Hounds. |
A wizard is Never late Frodo Baggins. Nor is he Early. A wizard arrives precisely when he means to... |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 19:13:01
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I have Faiths and avatars... great book, got the one for the demi humans too |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11992 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 23:44:51
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
high imaskar= new halruua
Which that adds another piece possibly for a rebirthed Thay in exile as well, if some Halruaans (possibly even some who were involved with the founding of Thay and then forced out?) were to join that group. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2014 : 03:03:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
high imaskar= new halruua
Which that adds another piece possibly for a rebirthed Thay in exile as well, if some Halruaans (possibly even some who were involved with the founding of Thay and then forced out?) were to join that group.
So... refugee Netherse originally became Halruaans, only then, for refugee Halruaans to eventually become rebirthed Thayvians?
That has an odd ring of cool to it, I think. |
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11992 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2014 : 17:34:52
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
high imaskar= new halruua
Which that adds another piece possibly for a rebirthed Thay in exile as well, if some Halruaans (possibly even some who were involved with the founding of Thay and then forced out?) were to join that group.
So... refugee Netherse originally became Halruaans, only then, for refugee Halruaans to eventually become rebirthed Thayvians?
That has an odd ring of cool to it, I think.
throw in that the original red wizard movement started with renegade halruaans.... could there still have been an underground sect of Halruaans from the original sect of "red wizards", and its that group that joins up with these (after all it seems like the original Halruaans that aided the Mulans maybe got chased out.... so if these rebirthed Thayans are less racist (but no less power hungry), their viewpoints might coincide more again). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Nod_Hero
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jan 2015 : 03:32:00
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| It's interesting that the Egyptian deities were part of the alternate list of the 5e PH. |
"Bugs and robots ma'am, bugs and robots..." |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2015 : 01:28:26
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| Yeah I want Mulhorand and Unther back too, they're too important and tied to the Realms history and setting to disappear forever. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2015 : 14:02:01
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I would rather a 'Realmsified' version of the Pharonic pantheon. A couple of the minor ones could be the same actual god with a name change, but others should be FR gods with an alias (so for a sun god, it would actually be Amaunator, as Amaun-Ra, or some such).
In fact, they shouldn't specifically state "this god is really this god" - they should just hint at it, to let DMs decide for themselves. So a handful would be local (pantheon-specific) powers, and others would be more (FR) universal powers with a cultural twist tacked on. They should (almost*) ALL have culture-specific names, regardless if they are truly a god from RW myth, an FR god with an alias, or even some setting-specific local deity.
Mystra is a tricky one - because of the way the setting is designed, all of Realmspace should have one goddess of magic, but it seems a bit weird for cultures who have never even met to all worship the same deity. I guess the 'different name for different groups' works for her, but she should be one of the very few (ONLY?) gods that the lore states is specifically the same goddess as elsewhere.
*I say 'almost' because sometimes this is okay - as cultures meet, some new god might get absorbed, so someone like Valkur could be found down in Zakhara (and they would even believe he originated from there).
EDIT: And a unified pantheon for the 'Old Empires'. You could have one (Unther?) focus on a specific deity, and the other another (or all of them together), but I don't want to see separate (RW) pantheons for them ever again. If Gilgeam 'arises anew', even give him a better (FR) name, like Gilthaross, or some-such. So new Unther might have a madman (or actual demigod) have all attention focused on HIM (state-controlled religion), and the other be more liberal about who can worship who within their pantheon (although you could still imagine a powerful and corrupt priesthood, just have them at odds with the emperor/pharoah/whatever). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Jan 2015 14:09:09 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6382 Posts |
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Lucifer_Drake
Acolyte
USA
9 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2015 : 22:04:30
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| I'm going back to 1e FR as a base so Mulhorand, Unther & Chessenta are not based on RW pantheons. I'm doing my own thing with those lands and their religions. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2015 : 13:20:45
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| Well Mazica is confirmed to be back, it actually gets mentioned in the core 5e books. So if that's back Mulhorand and Unther are likely back. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3811 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2015 : 17:51:40
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From a post by Erin Evans:
quote:
I would also point out "The Sundering" the novel series and the marketing campaign have ended. But the stories are not finished. For myself I can say Fire in the Blood, which came out this week!, shows Cormyr's place in the wars there, the book I'm currently working on, (Ashes of the Tyrants) and the last book (tentatively, King of Dust, will show Tymanther/Unther, and the entirety of that series arc will follow the Nine Hells and what happens with Asmodeus. I won't get to the post-Sundering era in this series, in fact. I know Salvatore and Denning are still within the Sundering with their next few books as well.
(Emphasis mine)
So, it seems that Mulhorand/Unther may even get featured in a novel (I know that it doesn't explictly say Mulhorand, but why would they return Unther and then not Mulhorand??)
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 04 Feb 2015 17:53:40 |
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Do you think the Egyptian gods will come back?
