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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 07:01:16
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Got a question for Ed
What are the chances that the the controling magic item for the Twin Crowns of Myrmoran (of Mere of Dead Men Fame)od the Crown of Horns?, Iniarv did after all became a Lich and one of Mykruls Cults did establish a base in the Mere and now of cause Mykruls essense has now entered the Mere...
(mainly drawn from your Voaraghamanthar, "the Black Death" article which recently appeared on the WOTC site)
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“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Josh Davids
Seeker
57 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 08:32:37
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Great I can’t believe I forgot to ask this, this one is to you Hooded One about something you said a page or two ago about evil and villains.
“‘evil can’t win or even be seen to benefit from their evil deeds’ dictates)”
It got me thinking, then worrying about current day publishers and their criteria. Does this still exist now a days when evil can not win or benefit from their deeds?
If so it has me biting my nails a little bit and worrying about the development of the plots in the world. Some of the times evil does win, triumphantly trouncing the good guys into the dirt, I did this not because I want to see evil win but I do want to make it as real as possible. After all some evil lich plans every little thing to the last detail for hundreds of years what are the likely hood of some farm hand stumbling upon a way to stop his ultimate plan(or lone warrior), to me just not too…believable, I do think with all the trouble the bad guys go through to plot, plan then carry out them they should win every so often(and really seem evil). With that does it mean I got to go back and rework some of the plots now. I figure it is best I know this now then 4 years down the road when novel series D is being looked at and the editor going “oh nope, sorry we need you to rework this, and oh wait that can’t happen need to rewrite that.” Huh, what but that just ruins the entire flow of the story, why do I have to rewrite it? “well good can’t win.” (blink) wha…oh great.
(sighs) I hope the answer is no they changed it but I fear they haven’t. best way I can describe one of the villains is the way you described the real Manshoon, plus add a bit of Szass Tam and Larloch together and you got Loku Duras one of the main bad guys, er ok main bad guy besides the demons and I would hate for him to be…tamed so to speak. Now I know why so many of the villains I read about don’t seem so.. villainous to me.
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Lord Rad
Great Reader
United Kingdom
2080 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 09:08:33
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2cp worth..
The way I look at it Josh, is that evil may sometimes win the battle, but they wont win the war.
I agree totally about your point with the lich and farmhand (nice example  ).
Also, take a look at WotSQ, drow are chaotic evil in nature so even though they "win", overall the book deals with evil winning over a greater evil. Just because were following a particular party through the series, we sometimes may forget that were cheering on the bad guys!  |
Lord Rad
"What? No, I wasn't reading your module. I was just looking at the pictures"
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Edited by - Lord Rad on 22 Mar 2004 09:09:43 |
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Shadowlord
Master of Realmslore
USA
1298 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 15:22:31
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Oh, and one little postscript more, Shadowlord: there's a mistake in your listed assumptions.
Just to be fair. Wouldn't want o lead you astray (she said archly). :}
Arg....  Well, at least I tried....  Ah well, I guess I'll just have to wait for you to regale us with other interesting tales, and then see what clues happen to be dropped...  |
The Chosen of Vhaeraun
"Nature is governed by certain immutable rules. By virtue of claw and fang, the lion will always triumph over the goat.Given time, the pounding of the sea will wear away the stone. And when dark elves mingle with the lighter races, the offspring invariably take after the dark parent. It is all much the same. That which is greater shall prevail. Our numbers increase steadily, both through birth and conquest. The dark elves are the dominant race, so ordained by the gods." Ka'Narlist of the Ilythiiri. |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 19:58:28
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| Life has pulled me away from incessant questioning, but I am back. I have a very vague and open question for Ed. Are there any remarkable features of Tantras that would not show up anywhere other then a Volo's Guide or somesuch? I mean things such as a local herb that produces a blue dye that is located no where else, and therefore creates the "Tantran Blue" that sells well everywhere? Or perhaps vodka is the favored drink of Tantras or of the Vast? Any such info would be appreciated. |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 20:36:28
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Hello, everyone. More from Ed:
Damian, you’re a man after my own heart (and gizzard, and . . . :}). I’ve printed out your wish list and put it with the bulging packet of things I need to discuss with various folks at Wizards. Hopefully at GenCon, where I can get them druXXX persuade them in person. :}
Josh, I’d say your “walking dead-magic-zone” man would be shunned by clergy of Mystra if near a temple or magic-strong location (get away from here!), and physically prevented from getting too close, by fists if need be. His existence, appearance, and whereabouts would be promptly reported, and higher clergy would seek advice in prayer and by asking any Chosen they could get into contact with. Certain servants of Mystra (see the SECRETS OF THE MAGISTER rulebook I did for 2nd Edition) and all Chosen know how to deal with dead magic zones, and he’s small enough to handle. It would take a sufficient sacrifice of silver fire to cancel out the dead magic zone, and this nullification would have nothing to do with the character’s wishes (i.e. it’s not something a PC would have to beg or pay for, or be left alone to keep if he wanted to retain it).
Just killing him would be the “last choice,” because doing so might destroy the dead magic zone or anchor it at the site of his death -- but might also, just as easily, free it to ‘drift’ (towards magic!).
So the PC would likely get a personal visit from a Chosen, carefully pumping silver fire into them to nullify the dead magic. A painful experience, but one that would ultimately cleanse their body of all taints, diseases, poisons, spells affecting them, curses, and wounds. And hey, they’d get to meet a Chosen and very much come to the attention and interest of that Chosen, so they might then get offered a task, or friendship, or a swift trip back to Vangey with the Chosen along to assure the Royal Magician that this particular Purple Dragon Knight was okay, now.
That’s how I’d DM it, anyway (and of course any power groups who’d heard of the character’s power would be interested in him, even after he was “fixed,” so ’twouldn’t all be sweetness and light, but it WOULD be lots of interesting play opportunities). As all too many people in our real world discover, from politicians to people who get their pictures taken in war zones to Chicago Cub fans who happen come into contact with the right or wrong ball, notoriety is a powerful, life-changing thing.
As for your question about villains, things have changed. TSR had a rather strict Code of Ethics (revised at least once that I can recall) that was hard to live with for two reasons: judging from what got published, some writers seemed “exempt” from it, where others of us (me being one :}) got it applied to us pretty thoroughly; AND it pretty well said that evildoers can’t be seen to benefit from evil actions within the confines of a product (meaning: you could START a book with a Great Evil Empire, but you couldn’t have them defeated at the end of a trilogy but “win” along the way, until things looked more and more dire [example: The Lord of the Rings]: they had to lose in EACH book of the trilogy or series). This is why the Zhentarim so often came across as the Keystone Kops of the Realms in early Realms novels. Frustrating as heck, believe me.
Wizards has a much broader (but more ‘sensitive New Age,’ i.e. more sensitive towards offending real-world female consumers) Code of Conduct, that I can by and large live with just fine. Folks who read my books carefully will notice that I’ve been “pushing the barriers” a little with each novel so that what’s deemed acceptable is a little broader next time, giving me more storytelling room. Yet for all the complaints hurled my way for being fixated on sex, being mad for nudity and gals with silver hair and all that, I’ve never in print gone as far as Bob Salvatore did way back in his great novel HOMELAND (the female drow valedictorian of the graduating class summons and has sex with a glabrezu of the lower planes? whilst the entire class participates in an orgy? Wow!). So what one can get away with does vary. As for your concerns with rewriting: all Realms novels are works for hire. Wizards of the Coast owns the copyright and can control the text. All novel authors rewrite until their editor is happy with the result. And that’s true almost everywhere in the publishing world. That’s just “the way the game works.” Down the years, I’ve had seven book and game products go straight through editing with no requests for changes or additions. Seven (no, I’m not going to say which ones), and my prose usually gets tinkered with. One must accept that, or stop participating in the process. Obviously, looking back over the hundreds of published things I’ve been involved with, concerning the Realms, I’ve accepted it. :}
So saith Ed. I can confirm (on some of the early novels, at least, where Ed was discussing scenes with us players because our characters were involved, and part of the original Realms agreement was that he would do so) that prose does get changed -- but I can also confirm that the FEEL and SPIRIT of the Realms made it into print, early on. Elaine Cunningham’s ELFSHADOW novel is proof of that: she couldn’t have “got Waterdeep right” from what was printed in FR1 Waterdeep And The North if Ed hadn’t managed to convey the feeling in that root product.
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 20:38:20
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Hello, all. More from Ed:
thom, your coin questions are JUST the sort of thing I can properly deal with here. Not too huge a topic, not too trammeled with stuff that has to be kept secret. I’ll get to them later tonight, except for Question 1: YES, the coins of Cormyr and Sembia are considered the 'regional' standards for the Dragon Coast. They ARE generally accepted at face value by most merchants PCs would deal with. More later!
Dargoth, for answers to your questions, see the classic Mere of Dead Men series of adventures published in DUNGEON. I was invited to be part of this series but just didn’t have time (I was already doing six projects at once, at the time), and Eric Boyd did a superb job on the concluding adventure. The disposition of the magic items you refer to depends on which events outlined in that classic, first-rank adventure have occurred, in your campaign.
So saith Ed, who’s still juggling library work, his cold, and of course the Waterdeep novel. I’ll relay his next replies ASAP (which will be this evening after he does all the recycling and compost and takes out the garbage, unless his library shifts have changed :}).
THO
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Karth
Seeker
USA
81 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 21:18:25
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quote:
see the classic Mere of Dead Men series of adventures published in DUNGEON. I was invited to be part of this series but just didn’t have time
For reasons that would be boring to recount, I never got my hands on the issues of Dungeon that contained these adventures when they originally appeared. Can anyone list the issues that contained them? Also any real suggestions toward or help in acquiring them that does not involve the carelessly tossed phrase "go find the back issues" would be, er... helpful. *cheesy grin*
Thanks, all.
-KN
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 21:21:48
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My Thanks Good Lady for your insightful comments, these character shorts are always extremely handy for portraying someone 'properly' (esp their sayings)
Just a couple of quick questions if I may? You say Islif leads Eveningstar patrols - I thought that her and her Lord had 'retired' to Arabel to raise their son and allow Doust to minister at the temple there? Does she 'split her time' between both places or has Doust and/or other priests erected a shrine/temple to Tymora in Eveningstar? (I am REALLY curious about this as IMC Cormyr has entered a civil war after the Death of Azoun IV with the 'Baron of Arabel' (Tymorian High Priest) being one of the major players, and Doust being sick to the back teeth of politics moved to Eveningstar and rebuilt Wolf Keep with a few followers - and of course his good lady)
Sharantyr - lovely description, she must be modelled on you
Crikey, please tell Ed I can wait until he has some free time to himself and can afford to write some Lore (in other words get the Waterdeep book finished first please!!!! - LOL, very excited about this one as you can tell ) but if I had to choose only one thing to know, it would be about Jhaele. Ed kindly painted a picture of her on the Realms List for me a few moons ago, but she is someone that STICKS in my mind, so I am, as ever, very curious about her
(and I take it his book tour is North America only? and not the UK? (sigh) )
ooh ooh one more please - what was the strangest/weirdest/most unusual place the Knights ventured to? middle of the moon? alternative Realms? Manshoons privy?
Many thanks
Damian
[quote]Originally posted by The Hooded One
What I will do is turn the floor over to our beautiful Hooded Lady, to answer Damian’s and Wooly Rupert’s requests about the characters of a few of the core Knights:
Islif Lurelake: A strong, lusty warrior-woman of few words -- also now retired from the Knights to Cormyr, and married to Doust. Usually visits Shadowdale once every spring, and leads local (Eveningstar) patrols of the verges of the Stonelands. No-nonsense, given to deadpan black humour or none (visible) at all. Slow to anger, tends to be amused by insults. Typical saying: “My sword speaks for me.”
Sharantyr: A shapely, sleek, hot-tempered ranger governed by
P.S. Yes, Damian, we fared forth briefly into the Vast, exactly twice. I’ve passed your dream list on to Ed, who e-groaned, said, “Me, too!” to a lot of it, and promised to get to a few of the easier Realmslore questions in May, during his book signing tour -- when, as he put it, “I should be able to snatch a FEW moments for the Realms. I hope.”
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 22:07:25
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Lady Hooded One, I'm glad you like that title. I shall continue to use it.
Another question for Ed, though not entirely Realms-related. I was really loved the Spelljammer setting when it was going strong, and I know you wrote at least one article for it (Rough Times on Refuge). What was your opinion of this setting? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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RevJest
Learned Scribe
USA
115 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 22:19:31
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The Hooded One,
Another question for Ed.
Ed,
How "magical" do you view the Realms as being? Are there a lot of Wizards and Sorcerers? Are magical items common, or rare? Certainly many stories of magic are told. But has the average peasant or shop keeper seen much magic in his or her life?
Regards,
Simon
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"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 22:39:30
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HO, thanks for the character summaries! Based on the typical sayings, you have an amazing group-synergy going there. And quote:
Tharth and Brengur
you have either a great memory, thorough notes, or a stronger grip on Ed's naming style than most published Realms authors. I'd guessed Ed had wished to do Knights novels for a while -- and it surely wouldn't have unbalanced the publishing end to get them a few years sooner.
The Mere of Dead Men scenarios are in Dungeon #69 through 73. Eric Boyd's "Eye of Myrkul" in #73 is the crucial one. nobleknight.com and dragontrove.com are light on those issues, paizopublishing.com has some for $15 each, but for those in the UK theplaceforgames.com has a good back-issue selection.
Wooly, Ed wrote a whole Spelljammer sourcebook, SJR1 Lost Ships, part of any good Realms library!
Ed's made various comments on the 'high magic' nature of the Realms. It's quite a subtle thing to explain, and I'm not sure any of his attempts aren't slightly misleading, if only because people have a lot of assumptions that need tweaking. That nature is real, but it's more to do with variety and density of ideas than quantity. We've seen scenes of mages-for-hire telekinesing goods, but how common that kind of thing is isn't clear. (Gary Gygax wrote a very interesting treatment of how D&D magic affects society in his conception in his book Living Fantasy.) |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 22:43:50
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Ed also wrote Lost Ships (IIRC) and it was packed to the gutters with loads of Lore and adventure ideas - an EXCELLENT buy IMO
cheers
Damian
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Lady Hooded One, I'm glad you like that title. I shall continue to use it.
Another question for Ed, though not entirely Realms-related. I was really loved the Spelljammer setting when it was going strong, and I know you wrote at least one article for it (Rough Times on Refuge). What was your opinion of this setting?
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 22 Mar 2004 : 22:44:06
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Wooly Rupert, I can start to answer this question without checking with Ed (don't worry, I will, later :}), because he wrote the first accessory for Spelljammer (SJR1, I think: "Lost Ships" was the title), and had a LOT of fun with it. I recall overhearing him GIGGLING when Jeff Grubb (designer of the setting) was describing some of the "wacky science" of the setting, on the phone.
Bored guard on ship, smoking (against rules): just before superior officer comes around checking, tosses pipe sideways over the rail, nods to officer, officer moves on, guard reaches out and catches his pipe again -- which has circled around amidships to pop back up again...the same trajectory (smack in back of head warning!) vomit follows, when projected 'over the side.'
:}
THO |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 00:12:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Karth
quote:
see the classic Mere of Dead Men series of adventures published in DUNGEON. I was invited to be part of this series but just didn’t have time
For reasons that would be boring to recount, I never got my hands on the issues of Dungeon that contained these adventures when they originally appeared. Can anyone list the issues that contained them? Also any real suggestions toward or help in acquiring them that does not involve the carelessly tossed phrase "go find the back issues" would be, er... helpful. *cheesy grin*
Thanks, all.
-KN
The Mere of Dead men are 69, 70,71,72,73
69 and 73 are out of Print and out of stock the other 3 you can get from Pazio |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 01:28:53
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quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Wooly Rupert, I can start to answer this question without checking with Ed (don't worry, I will, later :}), because he wrote the first accessory for Spelljammer (SJR1, I think: "Lost Ships" was the title), and had a LOT of fun with it. I recall overhearing him GIGGLING when Jeff Grubb (designer of the setting) was describing some of the "wacky science" of the setting, on the phone.
Bored guard on ship, smoking (against rules): just before superior officer comes around checking, tosses pipe sideways over the rail, nods to officer, officer moves on, guard reaches out and catches his pipe again -- which has circled around amidships to pop back up again...the same trajectory (smack in back of head warning!) vomit follows, when projected 'over the side.'
:}
THO
Aw, man, I can't believe that I forgot he wrote that!  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 04:15:45
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Hello, all. Ed finally weighs in on the coin questions from thom (and yes, I can confirm that we found ‘curious’ coins once or twice that we took to sages to identify, nut never had any troubles spending any treasure coins we found. SAVING, now . . . THAT was harder :}):
1. Yes and yes.
2. Sembian coins have the arms of Sembia on one side, and the denomination (above) and the date (in DR) curving around a proof stamp [mint mark] on the other (yes, curving, regardless of the shape of the coin). Sembian coins often have a bluish tinge to them from being cleaned (of the grease they get on them from the stampings) by being held in a flame. The grease is deliberately “cooked into” the iron coins, to inhibit rust (it does a fair, not foolproof, job).
3. Modern Cormyrean coins bear the monarch’s face and name on side, and a date, denomination, and mint mark [almost always a full-on bearded, hatless wizard’s face, known as “Old Vangey,” which denotes the Royal Mint in Suzail, but in about ten percent of coins two parallel crescent moons, horns to the dexter, denoting a High Horn minting] on the other. There’s only been one minting since the death of Azoun IV, and these Regency coins bear the Purple Dragon royal arms with five parallel bars on its body, rather than the face of the infant monarch or of Alusair. Elder Cormyrean coins (eighty years old and older) don’t have dates, but instead “first minting,” “second minting,” and so on, these numbered mintings denoting times during the reign of that monarch that coins were issued (there were eight mintings in the reign of Azoun IV, but three mintings is as high a count as most of the early kings got). They are otherwise identical to more modern coins of the Forest Kingdom.
Cormyrean coins are of very pure metal and heavy weight, and age well, Sembian coins slightly less so -- but the coinages of Waterdeep, Luskan, Mirabar, Silverymoon, Amn, Tethyr, Cormyr, and Sembia are considered the best-made in Faerun, and are most highly valued in trade.
Acceptance of older coins depends on condition and metal: gold coins are accepted everywhere at face value unless they’re broken, unusually small, or obviously impure. Silver coins that have tarnished to black are seldom accepted, but if PCs clean them WITHOUT highly abrasive means that take much of the markings off, they’ll probably be accepted, too (again, unless broken, impure, or small). For everything else, yes, go to a moneychanger (most cities on any coast have several).
Tradebars are widely accepted, because they MUST conform closely to a given size and weight to be accepted at all. They are the best way to melt down and re-use “suspicious” coins, because an existing tradebar can be pressed into clay to easily make a mold for the new one.
A 25-gp tradebar is a “brick with rounded corners” (squared corners broke off too easily, and unscrupulous persons deliberately broke off corners whenever they could, so the custom of rounded corners became the norm) of just over an inch thick, three inches across, and six inches in length. Cali****e tradebars (also used in Tharsult, Tashluta and the Tashalar, and other Southern trade) are seven inches long, but both ‘long sides’ bow smoothly inwards half an inch on each side, making the bar easier to grip.
50-gp tradebars are the same dimensions around their bottoms as 25-gp bars, but are three inches thick, and taper inwards as they rise (to look more like our real-world ‘ingot bars’), so their top surfaces are a half-inch smaller, all around. There are no (legal) bow-sided 50-gp tradebars.
A 75-gp tradebar is an inch thicker (taller) than a 50-gp bar, with no taper to its sides at all.
A 100-gp tradebar is two inches thick, three inches across, and nine inches long, with a central hole (for carrying or for passing a cord through, to tie into bundles). The hole shouldn’t be much more than an inch across.
Proof and ownership marks are commonly stamped into the bottom surface of a tradebar, and don’t affect value.
Very earlier tradebars vary widely in dimensions and value, but are either weighed and valued at that time when traded today, or melted down when they must be transferred from one owner to another.
So saith Ed. thom, I can tell you that we found very few tradebars as treasure (but then, not being Zhents, we weren’t throttling merchants and then pillaging their homes to find our treasure). I suspect most tradebar hoards are hasty burials in the face of advancing foes or fierce weather, and are snapped up when nature or chance digging shifts enough earth to reveal them.
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 04:25:14
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Damian, I’ll get a proper reply from Ed later, but I can take care of three of your questions right away.
No UK leg of the book tour this time, sorry (believe me, Ed LOVES to be in England whenever he can get the chance; his wife Jenny is from Surrey).
Sharantyr is lovely, yes, and she is modeled pretty closely on a real-life lass, but it’s not me (sigh; cuddling with two handsome, strong-as-panthers Harpers; sigh).
What you did in your campaign is EXACTLY what happened in ours: Doust and Islif relocated from Arabel to get away from all the bloodshed and politics. :}
More from Ed later.
THO
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Josh Davids
Seeker
57 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 07:33:56
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Ok first thanks for the reply and get well soon, just got over a cold myself luckily enough my dad was kind enough to watch the kids for me for a day so I could stay in bed and let the fever burn away the sickness. God I owe him big time for that.
Onto the second thing, I just breathed a sigh of relief that the strict no evil shall win thing was mostly a TSR thing and wasn’t a restriction on most publishers. Personally looking at Tor(they are my first hope anyways plus they seem decent enough I have always heard good things about them), the only major company that still accepts unsolicted manuscripts, but before I do that save up the money for a decent agent. Goal one after this summer is out, get an agent.
Onto third thing, wow didn’t think the Chosen wpuld directly try and cure him, use him maybe to take out a few key enemies before helping him, watch him mostly likely was my thought. Though I can just see them dragging him back to Vangerdehast, when he left Cormyr it was after breaking Vangy’s nose good ole fist to the nose. Heck he figured what was the worst he could do, magic dead so no being turned to a toad, dagger in the ribs sure, lightless dungeon he knew he would eventually escape or die no big thing for him. He rode out of the mountains recalling that with a smirk on his face, one of the fond memories for the guy. So if he got dragged back he would either die in a nice boom, turned to a toad on site or get killed while trying to throttle the mage. Now that would be a seen I would want to play out, even if it ended in his messy death.
Ah I would have liked to see the Zhents as they were first written to be sure, I like a good story about a guy who can turn my spine to ice by just a look. Then cheer as the hero thrashes him…or as told earlier flashed having him plunge to a grizzly end. ok so i like the simple things in life.
Thanks again, I think that is the last questions for a time as I try and figure out a way to afford the Serpent Kingdoms, staff carving maybe or just counting coins. i am looking forwards to that one for sure.
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thom
Seeker
USA
69 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 15:33:23
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Again, my thanks Oh Lady Hooded One and to Ed as well! I'm gonna enjoy playing all that coin info on my PCs to keep em sharp! .
In the spirit of both of you having given previous advice to always add 'little mysteries' I'm already thinking of mysterious events to throw at my PCs to see what they do!
Lady Hooded One, I've got a Paladin, a Monk AND a Sorcer who all worship Lathander! I'm wondering, can you (or Ed) remember any of the more common oaths in Lathander's name that PCs might utter? I want to give my PCs a short list to help them get more 'in character' - especially the paladin; she's a new player who's very excited about being a paladin!
Thanks again for all the wonderful help you give!
thom |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 17:58:14
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quote:
Originally posted by thom
Lady Hooded One, I've got a Paladin, a Monk AND a Sorcer who all worship Lathander! I'm wondering, can you (or Ed) remember any of the more common oaths in Lathander's name that PCs might utter? I want to give my PCs a short list to help them get more 'in character' - especially the paladin; she's a new player who's very excited about being a paladin!
thom
I could use the same thing, meself. I'm working on a short story that involves a bunch of Lathander worshippers in Myth Drannor... Only one of the main characters is a priest, but this info could still come in handy. |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 21:23:05
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Thank you Good Lady
re books: righty-o, well I can wait till Ed comes over for battlemasters and gencon UK to get him to sign a few books for me
re Doust and Islif: *shush* we promised NOT to mention I was Ed, crikey giving away all my campaign secrets....... (joking folks, honest  ) so it appears that the knights are returning home to roost so to speak with Jelde already there.
Can I ask? did all the 'original' Knights come from Espar? i seem to recall that Florin, Semoor, Doust Islif and Jhessail did but I would be interested in knowing about the others (I know that Torm and Rathan joined later as did Sharantyr - but no idea about Lanseril and Merith - and I know Illistyl is from Shadowdale)
Thanks THO
best wishes
Damian
p.s. consider yourself invited to battlemasters and GCUK as well! (in fact if Ed wants a day off and you can get the other knights there then I don't mind stepping into the big fella's shoes.... LOL)
quote:
Originally posted by The Hooded One
Damian, I’ll get a proper reply from Ed later, but I can take care of three of your questions right away.
No UK leg of the book tour this time, sorry (believe me, Ed LOVES to be in England whenever he can get the chance; his wife Jenny is from Surrey).
What you did in your campaign is EXACTLY what happened in ours: Doust and Islif relocated from Arabel to get away from all the bloodshed and politics. :}
More from Ed later.
THO
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 22:07:23
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Crikey, you have just reminded me of the Lathanderite church in Myth Drannor from the RoMD box set - IIRC it wasn't noted on the map where it was situated - does anyone know if it was it was ever erratad (is that a word?? ) or just left out for the DM to place as they wish?
Good Lady, apart from the Knights and these Lathanderites, did any other good groups/churches ever try to 'tame' Myth Drannor and/or fight against the Banite led hellish invasion? and if so, was there any collusion between the groups to try to make it work or did you all just work alone because you couldn't agree on tactics and goals? (e.g. the tyrian paladins got fed up with the tymorian clerics etc)
Also did the Law vs Chaos conflict ever appear in the game? in most games its normally good vs evil - going back to my previous post about Arabel, the civil war (partly) came about because the Tymorians of Arabel and the Tormites of High Horn/Eagles Peak disagreed how Cormyr should be ruled after Azoun's death (I wanted to highlight this (in my general experience) unused aspect of strife and conflict between Law and Chaos and provide moral issues to my players about who is 'good/in the right' in this), oh and Eveningstar was about half way between them (geographically) and that's just where the players happened to be..... 
thanks
Damian
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]Originally posted by thom
I could use the same thing, meself. I'm working on a short story that involves a bunch of Lathander worshippers in Myth Drannor... Only one of the main characters is a priest, but this info could still come in handy.
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So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2004 : 22:33:15
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Crikey, you have just reminded me of the Lathanderite church in Myth Drannor from the RoMD box set - IIRC it wasn't noted on the map where it was situated - does anyone know if it was it was ever erratad (is that a word?? ) or just left out for the DM to place as they wish?
Wooly and I went over this a few weeks back. :) This is what we figured out.
Also according to Candlekeep's Errata entry it says this:
11. Ruins of Myth Drannor
courtesy Sascha Kriewel < sascha.kriewel@home.ins.de >
The temple of Lathander wasn't marked on the maps, nor does the book give a clear location. Semi-official suggestion from 'The Sage': place the temple in the Westfields area, just south of the Burial Glen.
The Sage said in Dragon #208 in the Sage Advice column:
Where within Myth Drannor is The Dawnspire (the temple of Lathander)? I've looked through the book twice and I can't find a clue. I know the site is supposed to cover about five acres, but there's no scale on the map. Is that an oversight?
TSR's Karen Boomgarden and I also spent a great deal of time poring over the book and the Myth Drannor maps trying to find the answer to this one. (The floor in Karen's cubical is just about large enough to accommodate all the maps at once. An onlooker would have had a grand time watching the two of us trying to study the maps without soiling or tearing them with our shoes.) Karen and I suggest placing the temple in the Westfields area, just south of the Burial Glen (see the Campaign Guide to Myth Drannor, page 15.)
There isn't supposed to be a scale printed on the maps. Myth Drannor's Mythal, see the Campaign Guide to Myth Drannor
pages 22-31) and the corrupting influences of all the gates and wild magic make all distances within the ruins distorted and variable. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 00:02:15
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As I gave Ed a short one last time I figure I owe him a long one this time
Have you ever given names to "Bibles" of the various religions of the Realms
Thanks to RAS (Cleric Quintet series) we know the Bible for Deneirs church is the "Tome of Universal Harmony"
Do other churches have Bibles and if so what are they called?
and what do they look like/Made of? |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
Edited by - Dargoth on 24 Mar 2004 00:04:13 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 00:10:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Dargoth
As I gave Ed a short one last time I figure I owe him a long one this time
Have you ever given names to "Bibles" of the various religions of the Realms
Thanks to RAS (Cleric Quintet series) we know the Bible for Deneirs church is the "Tome of Universal Harmony"
Do other churches have Bibles and if so what are they called?
and what do they look like/Made of?
Some of these were sort of in Prayer's of the Faithful. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Figgas
Acolyte
Canada
6 Posts |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 02:55:10
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Hello again, all. Ed apologizes for the delays in replying; a family emergency ate up his Tuesday. However, to paraphrase Charlie Brown: “The Sage Is In.” Hearken, all, to ye words of Ed:
Well met again, Lashan. Hmm, I know there are some things I should be telling you about Tantras, but the only things that spring to mind right now are these:
There’s a tangle of wreckage in the ‘deep hole’ at the center of the harbor (a small shaft or pit that plunges about sixty feet deeper than the surrounding harbor bottom) that’s full of the tangled wreckage of two merchant ships who unintentionally rammed each other one stormy night. There are the usual rumors of valuable cargo and even more valuable contraband sunken and presumably there for the taking -- but there’s also DEFINITELY something unfriendly down there, that causes creatures who explore the ‘deep hole’ to simply vanish. The harbor bottom is clay, and swirling mud obscures all vision near it (including the entire ‘deep hole’).
The favored drink in Tantras is a ‘red and blue.’ This potent tipple is made by mixing the “blue wine” made locally (a thin, sour wine whose only claim to respectability is its glorious, almost glowing ‘royal blue’ color, derived from the sour local wild grapes) with the best ‘red brandies’ concocted in Saerloon and Selgaunt. Drinking two red and blues in rapid succession leaves most people reeling drunk and causes others to pass out, but it has one useful documented effect: in humans and demi-humans, it deadens ALL pain and nausea for about 3 rounds (useful when performing amputations and other ‘brutal surgery’). Repeated exposure to this beverage causes individuals to soon loose this benefit (at different rates for each being). A red and blue has a rich sweet-and-sour taste that some folk swear by -- and a few swear at.
A ‘baeranth’ is the most popular everyday evening meal dish for Tantrans. The word means other things elsewhere, but in the City of Torm it refers to a meat pie or tart baked golden-brown and with a peppery gravy inside. The smoked meat of beef, goat, and hogs are minced in a 3-1-1 proportion to make a ‘real’ baeranth, but there are the inevitable tales of dogs and even humans going missing and winding up in baeranths.
“Sarkul” or smoked fish are also popular in Tantras (caught in the Reach, beheaded, immersed in honey and seasonings, and then hung and smoked for several days in closed sheds, but fish are NEVER put in a baeranth (in Tantras, for some unknown reason, the very idea of fish pies is considered sick and revolting).
Baeranths vary in price from 1 sp for six to 2 cp each, depending on size, reputation of the shop, and freshness, and are always sold hot. They can be bought from about highsun (midday) to dusk, from dozens of serving-shutter-on-the-street-wall shops with names like Karvin’s and Thurnan’s Oven and The Meltmouth.
Tantras has many taverns, but few dining-halls or anything approaching what we would call a restaurant. Its inns typically serve warm mulled cider and cold ale, plus buttered bread (a very dark, rich nutbread akin to our real-world pumpernickel), up to the rooms of guests, and lack dining rooms or taprooms. The taverns of Tantras serve the usual drinks and ‘hot buns’ covered with melted cheese (some taverns putting sliced olives or slices of sausage on the cheese so they’ll stick, to make their buns distinctive and popular), but little other food.
Tantras does have lots of fresh fish and eel shops and stands, and its streets often reek of cooking fish in early evening.
Tantras is known for having good ropemakers and netmakers. A typical shop is owned by a master or masters, who employ six to eight skilled workers and a handful of apprentices, to ‘weave’ the ropes or nets by hand. A small array of fairly standard wares (40-foot-coil of waxed line, 1 gp; 26-foot-coil of light cord, 4 sp; 50-foot-coil of rope, 1 gp; 50-foot-coil of heavy rope, 4 gp; 75-foot-coil of rope, 5 gp; 100-foot-coil of rope, 12 gp; 100-foot ship’s hawser/mooring cable, 150 gp [overpriced because these items, of which at least 2 will always be available, will only be bought from ‘ready stock’ in an emergency) will be hanging and ready for sale, and everything else will have to be ordered, with a tenday or longer wait.
There are also a few skilled brass founders (casters) in Tantras, who make small, simple household wares (bells, lantern cages, candlestick bases, handles, catches, simple bowls and trays, pouring spouts/funnels, hooks, and the like). The best is probably Teth Rundlelor of Bauntaman Lane, but Adluth’s Fine Hooks and Castings on Varmor Street and the cavernous secondhand warehouse Oddlings on Roardragon Way are also good sources.
The wildest festhall in Tantras, Warm Wondra’s, is also on Roardragon Way (the main street running along the southern edge of the docks), and it truly is a festhall: nightly shows are held there from dusk until dawn, beginning with contortionists, comedians, jugglers, and players who perform short bawdy works, and progressing through minstrels who put on rousing sequences of drinking and ‘slay the dragon’ songs, to a farce play involving maidens who get disrobed by monsters or villains (the audience is encouraged to boo, hiss, cheer, and even help deliver lines if they buy drinks for the actors), and finally to out-and-out exotic dancing and sex-for-coin activity (all of which is legal; the masked, cudgel-wielding Watch of Tantras are there -- just as they are on their frequent street, dockside, and tavern patrols -- to keep order, arresting persons who draw steel, wound others, or start fires, and ejecting the unruly onto the street).
And that should be enough to get you going. There’s something niggling in the back of my mind about someone who was walled up in the city walls and is now trapped there, undead and able only to clutch and whisper, but the notes for that are [gulp] in my basement and will have to wait until May or even later (post-Waterdeep, post-taxes, and perhaps post-publicity tour).
So saith Ed. We Knights hit Tantras only once: at night, in a SOAKING rain. We waded along (some of the streets become streams emptying down into the harbor during a real cloudburst, and this was an all-night real cloudburst :}) , wet to our knees, and were challenged by an equally soggy Watch patrol. Jhessail sourly told them she was the Queen of Waterdeep, and they then tried to arrest her, and Florin started picking them up and tossing them into the harbor. One managed to ring his alarm-gong (oh, yes, they use gongs and not horns in Tantras, and bloody noisy three-rattling-cup affairs they are, too) and summon another patrol, so Florin sent them swimming, too -- whereupon the madam of a nearby festhall offered us shelter if we’d just stop throwing her best clients to possible deaths by drowning, please!
So we spent a cozy night in a festhall, trading stories [and NOTHING ELSE] with the working girls -- and left the next morning hidden under their dirty laundry, on the cart that took ‘the dirties’ out of the city to the stinking laundry just south of it. From there, we went on our way. I don’t THINK any of the Watch drowned, but we never went back to check. :}
THO
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 03:18:31
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thom and Wooly Rupert, I can remember one Lathanderite oath off the top of my head:
"Redblood!" (used about the same as some Brits use "Bloody!" and some Americans say, "Damn it!" or "S**t!")
I'll pass this to Ed so he doesn't publicate, when we get a reply from my Master, himself. :}
THO |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2004 : 04:23:07
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Well met again, all. Ed has found time to spin more replies:
First of all, to all of you who’ve showered me with thanks: hey, you’re all VERY welcome. Thank YOU. It gladdens my heart to do this, believe me. Writing is an essentially lonely process, and it’s like walking down the street getting waves and smiles whenever I need to. :}
Damian: Yes, the attacks on Arabel (see BEYOND THE HIGH ROAD and DEATH OF THE DRAGON for some that still lie in the future for the Knights) and rebellions in Arabel were the last straw for Doust and Islif (particularly when some traitors to the Crown revealed themselves in the temple!) and they relocated back to Eveningstar. BTW, Islif definitely ‘wears the pants’ in the Doust/Islif marriage and, these days, in the temple as well! Locally, she’s as respected a war-leader as Alusair (in some quarters, moreso, because no one can imagine Islif bedding a young noble or breaking any law or rule, whereas the princess makes her own rules, and some farmwives view their handsome sons as in dire peril whenever she’s in the vicinity). Someday I’ll write a short story describing an epic sword-practise duel between Islif and Tessaril Winter.
As for Jhaele, she continues to be the brisk, motherly, hair-now-shorn-off-short so she can wash it in a water-butt in a trice because she’s SO busy central character of Shadowdale, in the same way that a really good publican (and aren’t THEY scarce, these days?) is the social centre of a small British village. She’s also fiercely interested in the women of the village ‘making good’ (especially when their husbands have been killed in the various Zhent attacks on the dale, or are wounded or gravely ill, or are drunkards) and invests in a lot of local craft-businesses (women weaving warm clothes or making cloaks, leggings, drinking-gourds, or belts, for instance), and lets the crafters sell their wares ‘for free’ [she gives them free space and one of the inn lads as a bodyguard, and even gives them free mugs of broth] to travellers who stop at the Old Skull. Jhaele also has a secret in her past that only Storm Silverhand knows -- and her only because Jhaele recently had a very ‘bad night’ and rose, weeping, in her her nightgown to march over to Storm’s farm for a little fireside comfort and sympathetic ear. I’m not yet going to reveal what it is, because my own players know only this much, and our very own Hooded Lady is, after all, one of them and can’t help but read this as she posts it for me. :}
Yes, I’m afraid the mingled book tour (two publishers: TOR’s getting in on the act, too) is only one province in Canada and two cities in the USA, this time around. I’d love to do one in England again, or even snatch time and money enough to visit on my own (a la the old One Tun days or the various Terry Pratchett fan moots, I wouldn’t mind meeting fans in a pub somewhere . . . I loved meeting Faraer during my last mini-tour [and everyone at Gencon UK, too!] and one of the most touching memories of a trip through England I did about twenty years back is shopping in a games store in Edinburgh; a fan who was too shy to speak to me rushed out of the store after Jenny and self to offer to show us the city [skipping school and his evening job to do so]. We had to refuse because we’d already arranged to meet local friends and had to get on our way to doing so, but the guy was SO enthusiastic and gobsmacked; I hope he got the bundle of TSR stuff I shipped him, once I got home). As for collecting the Knights to bring with me: not a chance. Some of them have to fly back to Canada from Japan and elsewhere for play sessions, these days, and although two of them (John and Ian Hunter: Florin and Lanseril, respectively) grew up in the UK and love to go back when they can, getting all of us together is REALLY hard. Perhaps if the United Nations really worked at it . . . :}
Yes, you’re correct that Florin, Semoor, Doust, Islif and Jhessail all came from Espar, but everyone else in (or ex-of) the Knights hails from elsewhere.
simontrinity: Very magical, in that there IS a lot of magic (spells, magic items, and ongoing enchantments/wards) around, there are a lot of wizards and sorcerers, “everyone” has heard tales of magic, and most city folk see magic daily (glowstones and similar magical light sources).
No, your average common laborer, crafter, servant, farmer or shopkeeper has never felt magic cast on them, handled anything bearing a dweomer or that could be called a “magic item,” or hired anyone to cast a spell (or had such a person under their command). Many people have seen magic used (usually at a distance, or the illusion-trickery spells of traveling hedge-wizards who entertain, some such illusions not being true magic at all, of course), and most people are fascinated by it and will rush or creep to watch it ‘in action’ (full of awe but also fear). And no, to most folk of Faerun, there’s nothing ‘everyday’ or casual about magic.
Figgas: No, no one’s contacted me about doing EverQuest novels, and I doubt I’d have the time right now (NOR the time to get familiar with the setting, in order to do a half-decent job of writing anything about it!).
thom and Wooly Rupert: Lathanderite oaths coming up, probably tomorrow (my wife is already yelling at me to stand away from the keyboard and pay HER a little attention, and I trust you know the fate of any man who ignores the desires of She Who Must Be Obeyed) . . .
So saith Ed. As for your question about the weirdest place the Knights went, Damian, that’s another of those hard-to-choose answers. It comes down to three places, though:
-- our real world (we arrived in a ravine in the wintertime, near an old ‘haunted house’ some of us explored as kids, and Ed wanted to see how long it would take us to recognize where we were
-- an endless void inside Mystra’s mind, where we “fell forever” and had dream-visions in which we conversed with her and saw some important past events
-- shrunken to tiny size, we were teleported into a suit of armor in Azoun’s bedchamber, and managed to topple it across the bed just as Azoun and Filfaeril were, ah, experiencing royal pleasures together. Boy, can she shriek! (And wow, can he curse! And whoops, can we flee fast, even at four inches tall each, when Vangerdahast is sent for!)
:} Hope that helps.
THO
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Questions for Ed Greenwood (2004)
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