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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 01:32:59
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Hi all,
So I was poking around in my Grand History of the Realms, reading through the Cormyr lineage section and decided to try digging up some info on Gorauna and the Thronestrife era. Not much lore there it seems, and I seriously hope we get to know more about this sometime soon!
But, what I found in an old thread from 2008, I thought was kind of interesting. To quote a response from Ed:
"Cormyr has major crises every three or four reigns (not all of them fully apparent to the population). Among the nobles (many of whom cleave to the view that the Obarskyrs are on the throne really just due to luck and ruthlessness, and are really just nobles no better than any other family, so SURELY by NOW it's the turn of another family to take the Dragon Throne), and thanks to various outside power groups (often sponsored by Sembian mercantile interests), there have been nigh-constant power struggles - - and the War Wizards, pre-Vangerdahast, had their periods of internal strife, too. Not to mention the rebel causes in Arabel and Marsember, and the continuing frictions of a rising wealthy middle class being "kept in their place" by nobles, and battles between courtiers and nobles."
The part that stood out to me was the "Cormyr has major crises every three or four reigns (not all of them fully apparent to the population)."
Now if the Devil Dragon time was THE major crisis of Azoun's reign, or well, at least one of them; and if we count Alusair's reign as regent, we then have Azoun V, and King Foril. Foril is the third reign and Crown Prince Irvel (whom I seriously hope takes the name Palaghard III, Rhighaerd III, or Azoun VI) will be the fourth reign.
Now I could be reading into this more than I should, but we should be due another crisis for the Throne to deal with. The question would be, are the latest Elminster books dealing with such a crisis or is The Sundering events to be such a thing? Or will some upcoming issue be such a crisis?
What do you think?
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 02:04:51
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Good question.
I guess the answer depends on how you define the word "crisis."
The last three Elminster books certainly depicted their share of problems for Cormyr, what with nobles both high and low in station acting as if the law and the throne behind it were minor hindrances to be overcome on the path to greater wealth and power, the War Wizards reduced to youthful incompetents that create as many problems as they solve, the Highknights so few in number that a decent inn could room all of them and still have plenty of space left over for more guests, and virtually all of these individuals ignorant of or otherwise uncaring Cormyr's history, the threats against it and the importance of their station and responsibilities.
I get the sense that the Sundering will continue to introduce outside powers try that to capitalize on Cormyr's inherent weakness, but on a larger scale than isolated Sembian cabals, individual half-mad vampire archmages and pairs of spellcasting Shadovar. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 04:03:33
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I may be in the minority here but, honestly, I think Cormyr needs a rest. A period of relative peace. I'm not saying there can't be challenges (and adventures), just nothing too overt. Cormyr's people are beleaguered after the events of the last century (and recent events certainly haven't helped).
This is just a knee-jerk response on my part, but I would like to see maybe one more decent event that sees the next king ascend the throne in an overwhelming sea of approval from the common folk AND many of the nobles. Those nobles still bent on taking power should realize that acting against such a popular king has to be handled VERY carefully and, by extension, very slowly. This, in turn, allows Old Thunderspells the opportunity to rebuild the War Wizards into what they need to be.
With the help of your local PCs, of course.  |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 04:30:37
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| If you're keeping up with the Sundering books, the major crisis is now. Cormyr is clearly losing the war with Shade. The description of "The Herald" (the Sundering conclusion) says that Shade is now preparing to invade Myth Drannor. The logical implication here is that Cormyr's forces have been smashed, and they are no longer a threat to Shade's plans. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 05:10:00
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I'm curious myself if Vangey will get a better body. I mean all El would have to do is teach him that body snatcher spell, find him a mindless husk and blam, we have Old Thunderspells on the rampage again or more likely in the shadows, backing up his son. Would dearly love to know the story behind Alusair being a ghost in the haunted wing too. And as wild as she was, I just can't see her holding her sanity over long as a ghost, eventually she may well snap and slide to evil.
Hopefully, we see more of how Cormyr is faring in this big war with Shade. It'd be a darn shame if it all takes place off stage. I wonder if they're going to smash Myth Drannor into a ruin again for 5E.
I used to just like Cormyr, but after the last half a dozen Ed books in that area I've really fallen in love with the place. A new venue might be fun too. I would dearly love to see a novel line where the Knights of Myth Drannor get to Shadowdale and take over the Twisted Tower and all the Zhent and drow bashing fun that would be. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 05:14:54
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I may be wrong but I think Shade is about to get a severe spanking. The last few Elmisnter novels have made it clear that Mystra...along with El, Storm, Vangey, and others aren't going to let Cormyr fall. I think Shade's foray into Myth Drannor is going to be a disaster for them. THAT city could hold any number of dangers just waiting to pounce on them. And with the recent setbacks Shade has dealt with they may be overreaching with that invasion.
Remember, they have lost a powerful Chosen in the Sundering as well as having difficulty keeping their clutches on a certain red-haired mage. Shade will still be around and fairly powerful, methinks...but they are going to lose influence (and I will be glad for it too). YMMV. Cheers. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 05:21:34
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@Eilserus: Yeah I've always liked Cormyr too (though I still hold that other places outside of Cormyr/Dales/North needed love). Vangey in a new body would be great. He could remain a secret and still be out in the open. Pure win.
Now, as to Alusair slipping into evil...I don't think she would. She was always a strong woman and I don't think she would go down that path easily. Also, if she has active support from people she knows can be trusted (which she does) then that should help curb much of the decline you speak of. It would be nice to see some signs of that emotional/mental struggle in her though. And, perhaps, El and/or Vangey will help get her a body too. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 09 Mar 2014 : 21:10:28
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I like small things going on in Cormyr instead of big ones.
I also think authors are making the Shadovar a little too careless. They survived for centuries on the Plane of Shadow and now that they are back, they are stretching themselves thin and trying to take over everyone. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 00:52:04
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I may be wrong but I think Shade is about to get a severe spanking. The last few Elmisnter novels have made it clear that Mystra...along with El, Storm, Vangey, and others aren't going to let Cormyr fall. I think Shade's foray into Myth Drannor is going to be a disaster for them. THAT city could hold any number of dangers just waiting to pounce on them. And with the recent setbacks Shade has dealt with they may be overreaching with that invasion.
Remember, they have lost a powerful Chosen in the Sundering as well as having difficulty keeping their clutches on a certain red-haired mage. Shade will still be around and fairly powerful, methinks...but they are going to lose influence (and I will be glad for it too). YMMV. Cheers.
I can't imagine why Mystra would be so invested in Cormyr. I know that Elminster is revitalized, as a result of Ed's latest books. But Ed's books also show that Cormyr's current defenders are not equipped to battle the Shadovar.
I would have preferred for Cormyr to beat Shade outright, rather than have Cormyr near annihilation, but saved by Mystra and her Chosen coming out of nowhere to KO the Shadovar. Mystra and Shar should cancel each other out, and Shade does have most of its princes left, including the Most High. Mystra and Co. handwaving them away would be a poor conclusion to a lot of great novels. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 01:26:46
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Well, Mystra has been "dead" for over a hundred years. With that said, there probably isn't many of those 500 to 1500 war wizards who offer her prayers very often. Recruit the war wizards and you have a nice solid base to start with for making magic respected, loved, and used for the benefit of all again. The war wizards of today are supposedly a shadow of what they once were, and let's be honest, some of them act like they'd fit right in at old Athalantar or Zhentil Keep. It's behavior that is like a cancer eating away at the organization, that if not checked, could turn Cormyr into a bad bad place in time. Least that's my thoughts on it.
I seriously don't know how Shade is rampaging and waging war on two fronts at once. Cormyr is one thing, but Myth Drannor too? Shade only has what 25,000 citizens? Most of their soldiers would have to be Sembians and I imagine hordes of mercenaries hired from around the Sea of Fallen Stars. Of course, they could be rocking truly powerful magic. Totally surprise me if it can best Myth Dranor's spells though.
I never really cared for Shade's return, well at first, but I hope they don't get totally annihilated. Just knocked down a peg or three. The loss of Sembia as a puppet state would be nice for starters. And I imagine Shar, as hinted in Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms, is due to abandon the Most High and his Princes soon. Elminster trading spells with Telamont would make for fun reading. Though I'm not sure El would win that fight. I could almost picture Larloch showing up (if he still lives) to boot-kick Telamont and save the Old Mage for some reason or another. ;)
Since some scribes have found 5E corebook links on Amazon recently, I hope we see or will learn the release date of a 5E campaign guide soon. |
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Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 07:27:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Well, Mystra has been "dead" for over a hundred years. With that said, there probably isn't many of those 500 to 1500 war wizards who offer her prayers very often. Recruit the war wizards and you have a nice solid base to start with for making magic respected, loved, and used for the benefit of all again. The war wizards of today are supposedly a shadow of what they once were, and let's be honest, some of them act like they'd fit right in at old Athalantar or Zhentil Keep. It's behavior that is like a cancer eating away at the organization, that if not checked, could turn Cormyr into a bad bad place in time. Least that's my thoughts on it.
I seriously don't know how Shade is rampaging and waging war on two fronts at once. Cormyr is one thing, but Myth Drannor too? Shade only has what 25,000 citizens? Most of their soldiers would have to be Sembians and I imagine hordes of mercenaries hired from around the Sea of Fallen Stars. Of course, they could be rocking truly powerful magic. Totally surprise me if it can best Myth Dranor's spells though.
I never really cared for Shade's return, well at first, but I hope they don't get totally annihilated. Just knocked down a peg or three. The loss of Sembia as a puppet state would be nice for starters. And I imagine Shar, as hinted in Ed Greenwood Presents Elminster's Forgotten Realms, is due to abandon the Most High and his Princes soon. Elminster trading spells with Telamont would make for fun reading. Though I'm not sure El would win that fight. I could almost picture Larloch showing up (if he still lives) to boot-kick Telamont and save the Old Mage for some reason or another. ;)
Since some scribes have found 5E corebook links on Amazon recently, I hope we see or will learn the release date of a 5E campaign guide soon.
Am I outdated, or is Shrinshee alive at present time? She could make every prince of shade run for he's life.
*Spoiler*
Also im rather surprised that Shade is going to invade something again, given the loss of Sakkors and two prince's in Godborn.
What I think will happen, is started in herald and finished up in upcoming Evans novel. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 12:40:10
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| Hah, yeah she could probably torch the entire city of Shade, Telamont, Princes and all. I don't think we've seen her since Ed's last short story, Tears So White. Which took place before the Spellplague if I'm not mistaken. I can't imagine she's dead, she was something like 54th level. Ya know, I wonder if she's been in Myth Drannor since it was rebuilt? Hmmm, as the Grand Court Mage no less I bet? |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 18:04:31
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As an aside, I know aboleths aren't a focus of Ed's writing, but I would like some info on them in "The Herald". I know that Xxiphu floats within view of Cormyr sometimes. With Cormyr in dire straits, it would only make sense for them to make a move.
SPOILERS
I LOVED "The Reaver", but was disappointed with the Sovereignty not being present. Umberlee is trying to conquer the whole Sea of Fallen Stars area, and the aboleths are twiddling their thumbs (I wonder what that would even look like). The major threats of 4e were supposed to be: Shade, Thay, drow, and aboleths. Other than a half-hearted play for Netheril, the aboleths have done diddly squat since Cordell's trilogy. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 18:13:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Hah, yeah she could probably torch the entire city of Shade, Telamont, Princes and all. I don't think we've seen her since Ed's last short story, Tears So White. Which took place before the Spellplague if I'm not mistaken. I can't imagine she's dead, she was something like 54th level. Ya know, I wonder if she's been in Myth Drannor since it was rebuilt? Hmmm, as the Grand Court Mage no less I bet?
That's one aspect of Ed's books that I enjoy. Very few writers are willing to let archmages slug it out, because fans don't want to see their favorites lose. I can understand that, because I thought RAS let the drow punk the Shadovar too easily. Still, I enjoyed the fights.
I'm all for it for epic NPCs fighting, though. If we can have RSEs, there should at least be some epic spell battles in there. I wouldn't even mind if the Srinshee killed Telamont (despite the fact that I like him much better). I just want to see Telamont in action.
Can you imagine how entertaining it would be to see a desperate Telamont, with his empire nearly defeated, unleashing his full power on his enemies?
SPOILERS
In "The Godborn", Telamont was sure that he could hurt Rivalen, even after he became a demigod. He just didn't believe he could kill him. That says a lot about his power level. |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 10 Mar 2014 : 19:02:20
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Seeing Telamont in action would be fun. I think he's listed at 35th level, but for all we know he could be the strongest caster in the Realms currently. The Ssrinshee was only listed as 30th level if I recall before we were told she was way higher. The one thing I didn't like about Shade's return, being they were of the old Netheril empire, they should be slinging some nuclear bombs for spells. To me, Netheril was on par with the ancient elven civilizations and probably outstripped them in some areas, albeit their approach was more sloppy, but that just boggles the mind. How do modern day countries even compete with that? They really shouldn't be able to and we have seen them struggling very hard to win against the Shade in various novels down the years. And the only thing keeping everyone from being royally screwed is the city of Shade just doesn't have that big of a population base. Which does make the subverting of Sembia a smart idea.
What gets me is why spellcasters like the Simbul, who supposedly could have blasted most of the Hullack away, didn't go blow apart that floating city when all the trouble started. This would be pre-Spellplague days of course. I'd imagine such an act would rip a whole in the Weave and really make Mystra mad, maybe even harm her, but at what point is that type of cost something that should be paid? Especially when were looking at this Sundering business and all the wars being waged. I can only think that such a price to doing so, goes beyond anything we currently know and is one of the reasons this hasn't already taken place. |
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Incoming Major Crisis in Cormyr?
