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Originally posted by The Arcanamach

I'm simply stunned.

That's some fine work there and it's too bad that we never got a monster pantheon detailed. But your work fills the bill VERY nicely.

Oh, and Hail and well met!

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According to Olaf, the leucrotta worship a group of archetypal predators known as the Pack. This Pack is led, not surprisingly, by the great leucrotta, Toknana. The Pack ranges across the plains of the Abyss, preying upon the tanar'ri, sending prey animals to deserving leucrotta, and defending the species against its enemies.
Toknana is assisted by a number of other archetypal creatures, such as Hruba the Chimera, Ylarria the Red Dragon, and Voal the Hydra. In addition, numerous leucrotta, chosen from the finest and most cunning hunters on Faerûn, also run with Toknana across the Abyss, and are sometimes dispatched to the Prime Material Plane to assist mortal leucrotta if they are threatened or need new tricks to help them deceive and capture prey.

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Originally posted by Markustay

Great work, and well-met.

There is also mention of a Leucrotta pantheon in the Thar supplement in Elminster's Ecologies. Not a lot of detail, but some.

From pgs.14-15...

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According to Olaf, the leucrotta worship a group of archetypal predators known as the Pack. This Pack is led, not surprisingly, by the great leucrotta, Toknana. The Pack ranges across the plains of the Abyss, preying upon the tanar'ri, sending prey animals to deserving leucrotta, and defending the species against its enemies.
Toknana is assisted by a number of other archetypal creatures, such as Hruba the Chimera, Ylarria the Red Dragon, and Voal the Hydra. In addition, numerous leucrotta, chosen from the finest and most cunning hunters on Faerûn, also run with Toknana across the Abyss, and are sometimes dispatched to the Prime Material Plane to assist mortal leucrotta if they are threatened or need new tricks to help them deceive and capture prey.

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Originally posted by AuldDragon

Hmm, I missed that. I'll have to think about how to implement them; my gut is that "The Pack" is a manifestation of another deity, perhaps even Gorellik. Leucrotta are, after all, mythologically derived from hyenas. I'll have to think about this some more. Thanks for the info!

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Originally posted by Blade of Beregost

Wow. This is awesome! I'll have to start adding some of this into my game. We have a recurring villain in the form of a giant who, in hindsight, has probably been a cleric of Memnor all along. He's such a good deceiver, he even had me (the DM) fooled . Thanks for this, and I can't wait to see more!

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Originally posted by Markustay

The inclusion of a dragon 'Pack' member is a bit odd, considering there is an entire draconic pantheon.

However, these seem to be more along the lines of something I've called 'archtypes' - the embodiment of a specific species in a primal form (almost like a proto-god). In that case, I would say this Ylarria would be (more likely) worshiped by things like wyverns and drakes... things with a more... limited... intelligence. It would be possible to have a few true dragons honor Ylarria as 'the hunter' aspect of their 'inner beast', but that would be limited to the less... ummmm... cerebral members of their species (because every species will have its 'dummies'). It would also be more along the lines of using the creatures in oaths (and swearing), rather then any true form of veneration (by true dragons, I mean). Only creatures who wouldn't build any sort of civilization should worship these 'Pack' beings (thus my calling them 'proto-gods').

You may want to even merge these with the Savage Gods of Al-Qadim, who have a similar, primal bent to them. I would imagine all of them should be under Malar somehow (as are the Totem-spirits of The North).

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Originally posted by The Arcanamach

I'm especially curious on your take of Zinzerena as I'm thinking of working her in my homebrew (and eventually having her become The Masked Lady).

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Just a note, Mellifleur was subsumed by Velsharoon, so you may want to notate him as a dead deity in the realms.

I must commend you on the reference to Refnara the Moon Biter from dungeon #48

Also, where did you get the centaur pantheon references? I only recognize Skerritt. I like them having more than one deity, but I'd like to see it more as a "tauric pantheon" that isn't "unified" but may help each other. Nobanion may have ties to the pantheon, but maybe they include some taurics who aren't horse bottomed (hybsils, wemics, bariaurs). Maybe even having some other tauric deities (one with a bull bottom <see manotaur from 2nd edition MC Annual Vol 3>, boar body and orcish torso, something like a wemic but a panther or leopard or tiger body, maybe some kind of wolf-humanoid combo, maybe a pegataur type of centaur, a scorpion one for the tlincali, a dinosaur'ish one for the Dracons (see spelljammer MC vol 1) etc...). The goddess of the Lamia would also fit well amongst this group.

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Originally posted by Markustay

Once again, great work.

Just curious - you don't think Kiaransalee should be listed amongst the 'undead deities'?

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Originally posted by AuldDragon

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Just a note, Mellifleur was subsumed by Velsharoon, so you may want to notate him as a dead deity in the realms.

I must commend you on the reference to Refnara the Moon Biter from dungeon #48

Also, where did you get the centaur pantheon references? I only recognize Skerritt. I like them having more than one deity, but I'd like to see it more as a "tauric pantheon" that isn't "unified" but may help each other. Nobanion may have ties to the pantheon, but maybe they include some taurics who aren't horse bottomed (hybsils, wemics, bariaurs). Maybe even having some other tauric deities (one with a bull bottom <see manotaur from 2nd edition MC Annual Vol 3>, boar body and orcish torso, something like a wemic but a panther or leopard or tiger body, maybe some kind of wolf-humanoid combo, maybe a pegataur type of centaur, a scorpion one for the tlincali, a dinosaur'ish one for the Dracons (see spelljammer MC vol 1) etc...). The goddess of the Lamia would also fit well amongst this group.

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Powers & Pantheons doesn't specify whether Mellifleur was subsumed, or was never even worshipped in the Realms and Velsharoon just started granting spells to prayers to Mellifluer upon his apotheosis (similar to the case of Juiblex/the Elder Elemental God and Ghaunadar, Merrshaulk and Sseth, or Nebelun and Gond). Again, I'll probably try to thread the needle of neutrality on the issue. :)

The centaur pantheon is from Dragon #103. There were no details beyond names and basic portfolios. The Dracons have a pantheon of their own, but the only details is a general idea that they have a deities of all the major portfolios and the leader is called the Ub-kalla (IIRC). I actually wouldn't want to combine too many of the centaur-type beings together, as other than body pnal, they're not that similar. It would be like saying all humanoids should have the same pantheon just because they have two legs and two arms. I see manotaurs as following much the same deities as minotaurs, for example, while pegataurs would worship the same deities as centaurs (and Eachthighern).

Jeff

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Hmmm, still don't see the first 2 centaur ones listed. Do you recall their source? Just to include the info in the thread, listing what I see for the other 4 from the dragon mag.

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doppelgangers

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hybsil - may worship some centaur deities and sylvan deities

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Aarakocra - betting they're listed somewhere worshipping someone

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Kenku

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Cloakers - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity

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gibberling - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity WHEN they worship

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Shalarin - they already have one listed by chance, maybe a faerunian deity?

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Phaerimm - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity

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Sharn - probably worship Mystra

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Alaghi - probably worshipped some dead deity, similar to Magnar the Bear relationship with Quaggoths

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Chitine - is there one for these already (Lolth perhaps)?

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Loxo - Hiatea and/or Iallanis per Shining South

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Saurial - they started worshipping Finder didn't they?

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tasloi - worship an aspect of Maglubiyet per shining south

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Tlincali - Tlincalli priests may serve the Maztican deities Zaltec, Plutoq, or Nula. Noting this, as didn't some of these get transported to Amn, and therefore their deities may be interloping

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Thri-Kreen of the realms are noted as worshipping Tempus, though I'd be more inclined to say they worship Garagos

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glouras - definitely sticking to the sylvan pantheon

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Originally posted by sleyvas

On the Glouras thing... yeah, I ALWAYS pictured them as part of the unseelie court. I pictured them as being treated as somewhat royalty. Then the 3e version came out and made them "mostly good with the rare evil one". Personally, I prefer them the other way.... mostly evil with the rare good one. I would definitely have them worshipping the Queen of Air and Darkness for the evil ones, and I picture them as some kind of tainted/empowered other fairies.

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Originally posted by sleyvas

Oh, and since you can spot them so directly, it would be a big improvement on your list if you listed the "main" worshippers of a given beside their names. Also, a source would be really good (though I recognize the kenku and aarakocra names now that you state which they're for, its not necessarily immediately apparent). That was one of the things that I really liked at the end of faiths and pantheons for 3e where they listed the monster deities. They listed the alignment, favored weapon, domains, symbol, portfolios, and worshipped by. I think your list would be of easier use if it included alignment, portfolios, worshipped by, and source (the favored weapons, domain, and symbol can all be looked up if someone is really interested... or "designed" if unavailable... i.e. DM pick the domains and favored weapons).

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Originally posted by Markustay

For the Kenku and Aarakocra, you may want to look over some of Gray Richardson's Creator Race musings; specifically, the stuff on the Aeree.

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Originally posted by Markustay

I think we don't need more gods for a lot of those others - rather, aspects of existing gods (along with fiends, archfey, Elemental lords, proto-gods, etc) should serve just fine. I like a lot of gods in my settings, but not with THAT MUCH overlap. I am sure just about everyone borrows a deity or two from someone else's pantheon.

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Originally posted by Markustay

As for the Shalaran - I think it would have been best had they been from Abeir, to tie new lore to old... opportunities, missed, and all that. That would mean their pantheon probably would have had few - if any - true gods.

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Originally posted by Markustay

Speaking of which, on the Tlincallis: I always felt the Maztica pantheon was really just the draconic pantheon under human aliases (its a near-perfect fit, except for one oddball). That would mean the scorpionmen could have 'brought back' the draconic pantheon to Faerûn, which has been mysteriously missing for some time (no true presence in The Realms). My thoughts on that is that Abeir is actually 'The True World' from Maztican legend, and most of the draconic deities wound-up over there*, which left only 'echoes' (vestiges) of them in the Realms (with the exception of Tiamet and Bahamut, who seem to be better at crossing over into other pantheons then the rest).

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Originally posted by The Arcanamach

The Sharn are actually an amalgamation of elves (each sharn is several elves merged into one being, this is mentioned in the novel Blackstaff). So anyway this would mean they worship elven pantheon.

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Originally posted by AuldDragon

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Originally posted by Markustay

For the Kenku and Aarakocra, you may want to look over some of Gray Richardson's Creator Race musings; specifically, the stuff on the Aeree.

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Is that a thread on this forum? I'll look around for it.
There IS a thread, but he also did two articles in The Candlekeep Compendium on them.

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Originally posted by Markustay

As for the Shalaran - I think it would have been best had they been from Abeir, to tie new lore to old... opportunities, missed, and all that. That would mean their pantheon probably would have had few - if any - true gods.

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Shalarin were originally from "somewhere else" with the assumption it was offworld (they were created to operate as humans for an aquatic campaign); I believe 3e changed the source to the other side of Toril. I believe the distinction between Abeir and Toril came later still, so it would have been yet another ret-con.

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