Author |
Topic |
AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 10:35:26
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I've been a huge fan of the Faiths & Avatars format created by Julia Martin and Eric Boyd, and I always wanted a fourth book to be published, companion to Faiths & Avatars, Powers & Pantheons, and Demihuman Deities. Since there's no chance now of seeing an official one, I decided to create my own, updating the deities from DMGR4 Monster Mythology, as well as some others. I write these from the point of view of 2nd Edition, incorporating primarily only that canon, and focusing on the whole 2e multiverse, so where possible, I mention canon from all 2nd Edition settings. I post the main entries on my blog, and then will update this thread.
If you’ve been enjoying these entries, please consider supporting the project on Patreon or Ko-Fi: https://www.patreon.com/MonsterMythology https://ko-fi.com/aulddragon
Bugbear (and Other) Pantheon: Grankhul the Hunter: http://bit.ly/1TTie59 Hruggek the Decapitator: http://bit.ly/1XX3cus Meriadar the Patient One: http://bit.ly/1RTjyNC Skiggaret the Deranged One: http://bit.ly/1X3bgdU Stalker, the Hateful Shadow: http://bit.ly/1O7VbB3
Goblin Pantheon: Bargrivyek the Peacekeeper: http://bit.ly/1U3efkG Khugorbaeyag the Overseer: http://bit.ly/24ne4Cb Maglubiyet the Mighty One: http://bit.ly/1TNW2UB Nomog-Geaya the General: http://bit.ly/1ss21aV
Kobold and Urd Pantheon: Dakarnok the Raider: http://bit.ly/1UBjZAN Gaknulak the Trapmaker: http://bit.ly/1TTjqVU Kuraulyek the Horned Thief: http://bit.ly/1PaE0de Kurtulmak the Cunning: http://bit.ly/1PsgPAp
Orcish Pantheon: Bahgtru the Leg-Breaker: http://bit.ly/1UmIK0I Gruumsh One-Eye: http://bit.ly/1VCla5n Ilneval the Horde Leader: http://bit.ly/24nfwV7 Luthic the Cave Mother: http://bit.ly/1UBjd6N Shargaas the Night Lord: http://bit.ly/1sTJO5O Yurtrus White-Hands: http://bit.ly/25FbI7s
The Ordning: Annam the All-Father: http://bit.ly/1U0cJOR Diancastra, the Wanton Wanderer: http://bit.ly/1PaEzUo Grolantor the Steading Lord: http://bit.ly/1U3fGQ5 Grond Peaksmasher: http://bit.ly/24nggt6 Hiatea the Huntress: http://bit.ly/1XpIe9p Iallanis the Tender One: http://bit.ly/1X3cvd4 Karontor the Deformed One: http://bit.ly/1O7VU5v Memnor the Deceiver: http://bit.ly/1UBjLcS Skoreaus Stonebones, the Living Rock: http://bit.ly/1UBjLcS Stronmaus the Storm Lord: http://bit.ly/289ALyn Surtr the Black: http://bit.ly/289ABqP Thrym, the King of Ice: http://bit.ly/25Corob
Gnoll Pantheon: Gorellik the Loner: http://bit.ly/1UBjXZy Refnara the Moon-Biter: http://bit.ly/1PspJ11 Yeenoghu the Demon Prince of Gnolls: http://bit.ly/1UBk87a
Ogre Pantheon: Mirklak the Orcslayer: http://bit.ly/1VCpPnK Vaprak the Destroyer: http://bit.ly/1TTm1zk Ysshara the Lorekeeper: http://bit.ly/1t7fJk7
Interlopers on the Giant Pantheon: Baphomet, Demon Lord of Minotaurs: http://bit.ly/1U3lSrf Kostchtchie, the Demon Prince of Wrath: http://bit.ly/1XpQeHa
Draconic Pantheon (Io's Children): Aasterinian, the Messenger of Io: http://bit.ly/1XpQuWH Arcanic the Learned: http://bit.ly/1WzDlK9 Astilabor the Hoardmistress: http://bit.ly/1PaJGDQ Bahamut the Platinum Dragon: http://bit.ly/2gcEmW6 Chronepsis the Death Dragon: http://bit.ly/1O7Yx7l Elemtia the Tempest: http://bit.ly/1U3m1uJ Faluzure the Night Dragon: http://bit.ly/1ZcdvtA Garyx the Firelord: http://bit.ly/1X3g6In Hlal the Jester: http://bit.ly/2aI5MoG Io the Ninefold Dragon: http://bit.ly/2iuNgmv Kalzareinad, The Keeper of Dark Wonders: http://bit.ly/1VCqHc5 Kereska Wonderbringer: http://bit.ly/2fbhbMv Lendys the Balancer: http://bit.ly/1U3nzos Rais, The Cogitative One: http://bit.ly/20Y18Sg Sardior the Ruby Dragon: http://bit.ly/2bMvFiS Tamara the Merciful: http://bit.ly/2dMW2KH Task the Wrester: http://bit.ly/29aUTaK Tiamat the Chromatic Dragon: http://bit.ly/22DC4Bx Zorquan the High One: http://bit.ly/1UjK9W9
Aerial Deities: Jazirian the Eternal Serpent: http://bit.ly/1UmSlo6 Koriel the Vigilant: http://bit.ly/2kszfGg Stillsong the Singing Sphere: http://bit.ly/2pAAh5J
Aquatic Deities: Anguileusis the Abiding One: http://bit.ly/2lcZsdz Blibdoolpoolp the Sea Mother: http://bit.ly/2tK3Pzc Demogorgon, the Prince of Demons: http://bit.ly/2V7sVn3 Eadro the Deliverer: http://bit.ly/Eadro Ilxendren the Demonray: http://bit.ly/2svK8MH Panzuriel the Enslaver: http://bit.ly/2CJf7IQ Persana, Guardian of the Deep: http://bit.ly/2OXzuFW Sekolah the Great Shark: http://bit.ly/2iyzGR3 Surminare the Selkie Queen: http://bit.ly/2nsA7cU Trishina the Waverider: http://bit.ly/1t7h0rg Water Lion the Sharkslayer: http://bit.ly/2x7BNwt
Avian Deities: Krocaa the Crimsonfeather: http://bit.ly/2BL3ddK Quorlinn the Filcher: http://bit.ly/2iTi41K Remnis, the Great Lord of the Eagles: http://bit.ly/2J4orfd Syranita, Mistress of the Aarakocra: http://bit.ly/2qFphWC
Reptilian and Amphibian Deities: Laogzed the Devourer: http://bit.ly/2vo4pox Merrshaulk the Serpent Lord: http://bit.ly/Merrshaulk Parrafaire the Naga Prince: http://bit.ly/2epLsHv Ramenos the Great Frog: http://bit.ly/1sTUIsi Semuanya the Survivor: http://bit.ly/2SzBYfM Sess'innek the Emperor Lizard: http://bit.ly/2EuSHcW Shekinester the Three-Faced Queen: http://bit.ly/Shekinester
Centaur Pantheon: Brilros the Battle Stallion: http://bit.ly/2XmYvhK Chitza-Atlan, the Guardian of the Gateway to the Underworld: http://bit.ly/2NCr5HT Fanthros Storm-Hooves: http://bit.ly/2KKZH9m Kheiron the Educator: http://bit.ly/35T1VNf Linroth Fleet-Hoof: http://bit.ly/2PvXvUv Naharra the Mother-Mare: http://bit.ly/32kSzIc Skerrit the Hoofed Lord: http://bit.ly/1t7gQQH
Lycanthrope Pantheon: Balador the Master of Mead: http://bit.ly/2MMJ7qp Daragor the Wolflord: http://bit.ly/2GIbUL7 Eshebala the Vixen Queen: http://bit.ly/2LoZOLw Ferrix the Prowler: http://bit.ly/2N5fGSg Squerrik the Ratlord: http://bit.ly/24nmVDV
Seelie Court: Caoimhin the Kindly: http://bit.ly/2obZk0g Damh the Horned Beast: http://bit.ly/2xy2LQx Eachthighern the Unicorn Lord: https://bit.ly/33ja8M2 Emmantiensien the Treant-King: https://bit.ly/2wKVVKH Fionnghuala the Mistress of Swans: http://bit.ly/20Y1bNS Nathair Sgiathach the Prankster: http://bit.ly/2ZOPwYY Oberon the Faerie King: https://bit.ly/3wiU1L7 Squelaiche the Court Jester: https://bit.ly/3gkuybw Tapann the Undying: https://bit.ly/3zmugeL Titania the Faerie Queen: https://bit.ly/3jzLU8W Verenestra the Oak Princess: http://bit.ly/2L8jTGz
Unseelie Court The Queen of Air and Darkness: https://bit.ly/3onJXPp
Beholder Pantheon: Great Mother, the Hive Spawner: http://bit.ly/2UgrWn2 Gzemnid the Gas Giant: http://bit.ly/2MjGnS1
Deities “missing” from Demihuman Deities: Alathrien Druanna, the Rune Mistress: https://bit.ly/34BKFNK Araleth Letheranil the Prince of Stars: https://bit.ly/3lxhFxY Cador the Shadow Knife: https://bit.ly/3qhraUh Darahl Firecloak the Even-Tempered: https://bit.ly/3R6tXOA Diinkarazan, the Mad God: https://bit.ly/3pivLWG Diirinka the Betrayer: http://bit.ly/387V7Mo Kavor the Lord of Gravity: http://bit.ly/3IAVHGR Keptolo the Eager Consort: https://bit.ly/3KDxMXE Kirith Sotheril the Magess: https://bit.ly/3HxwKcP Mythrien Sarath, the Watcher over Mythals: https://bit.ly/3NterII Naralis Analor, the Watcher of Souls: http://bit.ly/3r5IAmR Nebelun the Meddler: http://bit.ly/1TO1req Rellavar Danuvien, the Frost Sprite King: https://bit.ly/3yxZo92 Tarsellis Meunniduin the Lord of the Mountains: https://bit.ly/3gWWkR0 Tethrin Veraldé the Shining One: http://bit.ly/2MjGnS1 Zinzerena the Hunted: https://bit.ly/49yWDYu
Myconid Pantheon: Psilofyr the Spore Lord: https://bit.ly/2Dnsl0L
Illithid Pantheon: Ilsensine, the Great Brain: https://bit.ly/3UprrVi Maanzecorian the Philosoflayer: https://bit.ly/4dsptuH
Undead Deities: Kanchelsis the Lord of Vampires: https://bit.ly/3fs3n37 Mellifleur the Lich-Lord: https://bit.ly/34oq2I0 Orcus, the Demon Prince of Undeath: https://bit.ly/42n1tU5
Elemental Deities Ben-hadar, the Prince of Good Water: https://bit.ly/48WXHVR Chan, the Princess of Good Air: https://bit.ly/44NypqR Cryonax the Prince of Evil Ice: https://bit.ly/3uKZdr9 The Elder Elemental God: https://bit.ly/4if6uar Ogremoch, the Prince of Evil Earth: http://bit.ly/3vyfL6G Olhydra the Princess of Evil Water: https://bit.ly/3cSv2ZN Sunnis, the Princess of Good Earth: https://bit.ly/4coyfKn Yan-C-Bin, the Prince of Evil Air: https://bit.ly/3WmIjfC Zaaman Rul, the Prince of Good Fire: https://bit.ly/3sevPMD
Miscellaneous Dark Deities: Anthraxus the Decayed: https://bit.ly/4fvA4an Cegilune the Hag Goddess: https://bit.ly/457mi7y The Dark God at the End of All Things: https://bit.ly/48EtOZB Juiblex the Faceless Lord: https://bit.ly/3LALnP9 Piscaethces the Blood Queen: https://bit.ly/3Z0XY5U Shami-Amourae, the Demon Princess of Eros: https://bit.ly/3DuJl14
Neogi Pantheon Kil’lix the Ambitious: http://bit.ly/3td5z0Q Kr’tx the Flaming Master: https://bit.ly/3jVvjsZ P'kk the Dominator: https://bit.ly/3EO5R3t Thrig’ki the Rapacious: https://bit.ly/2QCBolt T’zen’kil the Lasher: https://bit.ly/3fAXYEn
Insectoid and Arthropod Deities Klikral, the Master of the Mound: https://bit.ly/443SxVF
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My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
Edited by - AuldDragon on 02 Dec 2024 04:01:21
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 10:54:35
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I'm simply stunned.
That's some fine work there and it's too bad that we never got a monster pantheon detailed. But your work fills the bill VERY nicely.
Oh, and Hail and well met! |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 10:58:34
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quote: Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I'm simply stunned.
That's some fine work there and it's too bad that we never got a monster pantheon detailed. But your work fills the bill VERY nicely.
Oh, and Hail and well met!
Thanks! Nice to be here!
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6668 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 11:17:41
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This is brilliant stuff. Awesome work. Kudos.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 15:31:25
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Great work, and well-met.
There is also mention of a Leucrotta pantheon in the Thar supplement in Elminster's Ecologies. Not a lot of detail, but some.
From pgs.14-15...quote: According to Olaf, the leucrotta worship a group of archetypal predators known as the Pack. This Pack is led, not surprisingly, by the great leucrotta, Toknana. The Pack ranges across the plains of the Abyss, preying upon the tanar'ri, sending prey animals to deserving leucrotta, and defending the species against its enemies. Toknana is assisted by a number of other archetypal creatures, such as Hruba the Chimera, Ylarria the Red Dragon, and Voal the Hydra. In addition, numerous leucrotta, chosen from the finest and most cunning hunters on Faerûn, also run with Toknana across the Abyss, and are sometimes dispatched to the Prime Material Plane to assist mortal leucrotta if they are threatened or need new tricks to help them deceive and capture prey.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Feb 2014 23:15:49 |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 16:25:22
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My word, that's an amazing volume and quality of work to supplement a system (2E) I adore. Damn good job (and thanks for sharing it!). |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2014 : 19:56:07
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I agree with Kris here. I've recently (re)delved into 2e and will be going back to it in my own games (assuming I ever get to run one again) and your work is good.
Also, one of the novels dealing with the phaerimm made a comment that they have gods as well. They were never described though. Anyone got any ideas on this? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 12 Feb 2014 19:57:02 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 00:33:47
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quote: Originally posted by Markustay
Great work, and well-met.
There is also mention of a Leucrotta pantheon in the Thar supplement in Elminster's Ecologies. Not a lot of detail, but some.
From pgs.14-15...quote: According to Olaf, the leucrotta worship a group of archetypal predators known as the Pack. This Pack is led, not surprisingly, by the great leucrotta, Toknana. The Pack ranges across the plains of the Abyss, preying upon the tanar'ri, sending prey animals to deserving leucrotta, and defending the species against its enemies. Toknana is assisted by a number of other archetypal creatures, such as Hruba the Chimera, Ylarria the Red Dragon, and Voal the Hydra. In addition, numerous leucrotta, chosen from the finest and most cunning hunters on Faerûn, also run with Toknana across the Abyss, and are sometimes dispatched to the Prime Material Plane to assist mortal leucrotta if they are threatened or need new tricks to help them deceive and capture prey.
Hmm, I missed that. I'll have to think about how to implement them; my gut is that "The Pack" is a manifestation of another deity, perhaps even Gorellik. Leucrotta are, after all, mythologically derived from hyenas. I'll have to think about this some more. Thanks for the info!
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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Blade of Beregost
Acolyte
5 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 02:43:33
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Wow. This is awesome! I'll have to start adding some of this into my game. We have a recurring villain in the form of a giant who, in hindsight, has probably been a cleric of Memnor all along. He's such a good deceiver, he even had me (the DM) fooled . Thanks for this, and I can't wait to see more! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 13:28:15
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quote: Originally posted by AuldDragon
Hmm, I missed that. I'll have to think about how to implement them; my gut is that "The Pack" is a manifestation of another deity, perhaps even Gorellik. Leucrotta are, after all, mythologically derived from hyenas. I'll have to think about this some more. Thanks for the info!
The inclusion of a dragon 'Pack' member is a bit odd, considering there is an entire draconic pantheon.
However, these seem to be more along the lines of something I've called 'archtypes' - the embodiment of a specific species in a primal form (almost like a proto-god). In that case, I would say this Ylarria would be (more likely) worshiped by things like wyverns and drakes... things with a more... limited... intelligence. It would be possible to have a few true dragons honor Ylarria as 'the hunter' aspect of their 'inner beast', but that would be limited to the less... ummmm... cerebral members of their species (because every species will have its 'dummies'). It would also be more along the lines of using the creatures in oaths (and swearing), rather then any true form of veneration (by true dragons, I mean). Only creatures who wouldn't build any sort of civilization should worship these 'Pack' beings (thus my calling them 'proto-gods').
You may want to even merge these with the Savage Gods of Al-Qadim, who have a similar, primal bent to them. I would imagine all of them should be under Malar somehow (as are the Totem-spirits of The North).
Just suggestions is all - its your work, and I am enjoying what you've done with it thus far. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 13 Feb 2014 13:29:16 |
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Bladewind
Master of Realmslore
Netherlands
1280 Posts |
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 14:49:39
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This is awesome thanks for sharing - maybe worthy of a sticky
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The Road goes ever on and on Down from the door where it began. Now far ahead the Road has gone, And I must follow, if I can, Pursuing it with eager feet, Until it joins some larger way Where many paths and errands meet. And whither then? I cannot say. -J.R.R. Tolkien
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 13 Feb 2014 : 16:36:00
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This is so awesome! Thanks for sharing! |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 00:26:04
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I'm especially curious on your take of Zinzerena as I'm thinking of working her in my homebrew (and eventually having her become The Masked Lady). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11841 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 02:56:17
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Just a note, Mellifleur was subsumed by Velsharoon, so you may want to notate him as a dead deity in the realms.
I must commend you on the reference to Refnara the Moon Biter from dungeon #48
Also, where did you get the centaur pantheon references? I only recognize Skerritt. I like them having more than one deity, but I'd like to see it more as a "tauric pantheon" that isn't "unified" but may help each other. Nobanion may have ties to the pantheon, but maybe they include some taurics who aren't horse bottomed (hybsils, wemics, bariaurs). Maybe even having some other tauric deities (one with a bull bottom <see manotaur from 2nd edition MC Annual Vol 3>, boar body and orcish torso, something like a wemic but a panther or leopard or tiger body, maybe some kind of wolf-humanoid combo, maybe a pegataur type of centaur, a scorpion one for the tlincali, a dinosaur'ish one for the Dracons (see spelljammer MC vol 1) etc...). The goddess of the Lamia would also fit well amongst this group. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 09:14:36
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quote: Originally posted by Blade of Beregost
Wow. This is awesome! I'll have to start adding some of this into my game. We have a recurring villain in the form of a giant who, in hindsight, has probably been a cleric of Memnor all along. He's such a good deceiver, he even had me (the DM) fooled . Thanks for this, and I can't wait to see more!
It's always nice when things just fit together, isn't it? :D
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
The inclusion of a dragon 'Pack' member is a bit odd, considering there is an entire draconic pantheon.
However, these seem to be more along the lines of something I've called 'archtypes' - the embodiment of a specific species in a primal form (almost like a proto-god). In that case, I would say this Ylarria would be (more likely) worshiped by things like wyverns and drakes... things with a more... limited... intelligence. It would be possible to have a few true dragons honor Ylarria as 'the hunter' aspect of their 'inner beast', but that would be limited to the less... ummmm... cerebral members of their species (because every species will have its 'dummies'). It would also be more along the lines of using the creatures in oaths (and swearing), rather then any true form of veneration (by true dragons, I mean). Only creatures who wouldn't build any sort of civilization should worship these 'Pack' beings (thus my calling them 'proto-gods').
You may want to even merge these with the Savage Gods of Al-Qadim, who have a similar, primal bent to them. I would imagine all of them should be under Malar somehow (as are the Totem-spirits of The North).
Yeah, the dragon is curious. One question is whether leucrotta or greater leucrotta can be priests; I've never seen mention of that being possible (through 2nd edition, at least), but that doesn't rule it out. The more I think about it, though, the more it seems like Malar, who does work through leucrottas sometimes, would be the actual god behind "the Pack." He has a tendency of using such manifestations, especially when he has subsumed them (like the Blue Bear of the Uthgardt).
quote: Originally posted by The Arcanamach
I'm especially curious on your take of Zinzerena as I'm thinking of working her in my homebrew (and eventually having her become The Masked Lady).
Zinzerena will be interesting because Eric Boyd decided to kill her off in Demihuman Deities after Colin McComb put her in the Forgotten Realms in On Hallowed Ground. My preferred method is to try and take a neutral view and try to make it accessible for people regardless of how it played out in their campaign (which is how I plan to handle Maanzecorian's off-hand death).
quote: Originally posted by sleyvas
Just a note, Mellifleur was subsumed by Velsharoon, so you may want to notate him as a dead deity in the realms.
I must commend you on the reference to Refnara the Moon Biter from dungeon #48
Also, where did you get the centaur pantheon references? I only recognize Skerritt. I like them having more than one deity, but I'd like to see it more as a "tauric pantheon" that isn't "unified" but may help each other. Nobanion may have ties to the pantheon, but maybe they include some taurics who aren't horse bottomed (hybsils, wemics, bariaurs). Maybe even having some other tauric deities (one with a bull bottom <see manotaur from 2nd edition MC Annual Vol 3>, boar body and orcish torso, something like a wemic but a panther or leopard or tiger body, maybe some kind of wolf-humanoid combo, maybe a pegataur type of centaur, a scorpion one for the tlincali, a dinosaur'ish one for the Dracons (see spelljammer MC vol 1) etc...). The goddess of the Lamia would also fit well amongst this group.
Powers & Pantheons doesn't specify whether Mellifleur was subsumed, or was never even worshipped in the Realms and Velsharoon just started granting spells to prayers to Mellifluer upon his apotheosis (similar to the case of Juiblex/the Elder Elemental God and Ghaunadar, Merrshaulk and Sseth, or Nebelun and Gond). Again, I'll probably try to thread the needle of neutrality on the issue. :)
The centaur pantheon is from Dragon #103. There were no details beyond names and basic portfolios. The Dracons have a pantheon of their own, but the only details is a general idea that they have a deities of all the major portfolios and the leader is called the Ub-kalla (IIRC). I actually wouldn't want to combine too many of the centaur-type beings together, as other than body form, they're not that similar. It would be like saying all humanoids should have the same pantheon just because they have two legs and two arms. I see manotaurs as following much the same deities as minotaurs, for example, while pegataurs would worship the same deities as centaurs (and Eachthighern).
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
Edited by - AuldDragon on 02 Feb 2015 06:32:27 |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 13:34:11
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Once again, great work.
Just curious - you don't think Kiaransalee should be listed amongst the 'undead deities'? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 14 Feb 2014 : 23:12:53
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quote: Originally posted by Markustay
Once again, great work.
Just curious - you don't think Kiaransalee should be listed amongst the 'undead deities'?
Thanks! Kiaransalee has already been written up, so other than listing temples outside of Toril, there's nothing for me to add. Besides that, though, while a deity of necromancy and undead, she's not undead herself, nor patron of a specific type of undead, which is what that category is for.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11841 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 01:37:09
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quote: Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote: Originally posted by sleyvas
Just a note, Mellifleur was subsumed by Velsharoon, so you may want to notate him as a dead deity in the realms.
I must commend you on the reference to Refnara the Moon Biter from dungeon #48
Also, where did you get the centaur pantheon references? I only recognize Skerritt. I like them having more than one deity, but I'd like to see it more as a "tauric pantheon" that isn't "unified" but may help each other. Nobanion may have ties to the pantheon, but maybe they include some taurics who aren't horse bottomed (hybsils, wemics, bariaurs). Maybe even having some other tauric deities (one with a bull bottom <see manotaur from 2nd edition MC Annual Vol 3>, boar body and orcish torso, something like a wemic but a panther or leopard or tiger body, maybe some kind of wolf-humanoid combo, maybe a pegataur type of centaur, a scorpion one for the tlincali, a dinosaur'ish one for the Dracons (see spelljammer MC vol 1) etc...). The goddess of the Lamia would also fit well amongst this group.
Powers & Pantheons doesn't specify whether Mellifleur was subsumed, or was never even worshipped in the Realms and Velsharoon just started granting spells to prayers to Mellifluer upon his apotheosis (similar to the case of Juiblex/the Elder Elemental God and Ghaunadar, Merrshaulk and Sseth, or Nebelun and Gond). Again, I'll probably try to thread the needle of neutrality on the issue. :)
The centaur pantheon is from Dragon #103. There were no details beyond names and basic portfolios. The Dracons have a pantheon of their own, but the only details is a general idea that they have a deities of all the major portfolios and the leader is called the Ub-kalla (IIRC). I actually wouldn't want to combine too many of the centaur-type beings together, as other than body pnal, they're not that similar. It would be like saying all humanoids should have the same pantheon just because they have two legs and two arms. I see manotaurs as following much the same deities as minotaurs, for example, while pegataurs would worship the same deities as centaurs (and Eachthighern).
Jeff
Yeah, I was more or less grouping them as a "beast-oriented" type of pantheon. Didn't exactly write it as I was thinking it up.... I got sidetracked trying to think of all the "tauric" types we've already seen. However, thanks for the dragon listing. I will definitely go look at it. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11841 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 01:45:13
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Hmmm, still don't see the first 2 centaur ones listed. Do you recall their source? Just to include the info in the thread, listing what I see for the other 4 from the dragon mag.
Centaurs also have various minor deities and demi-deities of their own. These include Naharra (goddess of fertility andlove), Fanthros (god of the sky and weather), Brilros and his sister Linroth (twin demi-deities of strength and speed), and others concerned with health, singing, cattle, and other important aspects of centaur life. The few evil centaurs in existence tend to worship one or another of the demon or devil lords. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 01:57:48
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quote: Originally posted by sleyvas
Hmmm, still don't see the first 2 centaur ones listed. Do you recall their source? Just to include the info in the thread, listing what I see for the other 4 from the dragon mag.
Oh right, I forgot about those two. Kheiron is Chiron from Greek mythology, and Chitza-Atlan is mentioned in the old adventure The Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, with a mummified centaur as a servant; there's not much information on the being, but I figured it would work as an interloping death god. Just a couple more deities to fill out the pantheon, basically.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11841 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 09:41:30
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Cool. Thank you for sharing this list. I'd seen the one they compiled for 3e, and I always felt they left out some races. Thinking on the other major humanoid races of the realms that you don't see deific representation for real quick, there's the quaggoths or "deep bears". In another thread we wondered if Magnar the Bear didn't create them and then subsequently get subsumed by Rillifane Ralathil. This might explain away why you don't see many priests in their culture (they turned so bestial after their god <who may be a primordial or archfey> was killed).
Just going to spam some others real quick, and maybe jot ideas if they occur. Maybe you might recognize some, or maybe someone else might.
doppelgangers
hybsil - may worship some centaur deities and sylvan deities
Aarakocra - betting they're listed somewhere worshipping someone
Kenku Cloakers - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity
gibberling - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity WHEN they worship
Shalarin - they already have one listed by chance, maybe a faerunian deity?
Phaerimm - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity
Sharn - probably worship Mystra
Alaghi - probably worshipped some dead deity, similar to Magnar the Bear relationship with Quaggoths
Chitine - is there one for these already (Lolth perhaps)?
Loxo - Hiatea and/or Iallanis per Shining South
Saurial - they started worshipping Finder didn't they?
tasloi - worship an aspect of Maglubiyet per shining south
Tlincali - Tlincalli priests may serve the Maztican deities Zaltec, Plutoq, or Nula. Noting this, as didn't some of these get transported to Amn, and therefore their deities may be interloping
Thri-Kreen of the realms are noted as worshipping Tempus, though I'd be more inclined to say they worship Garagos
glouras - definitely sticking to the sylvan pantheon
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 12:18:03
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quote: doppelgangers
Considering their nature, I imagine they worship human deities.
quote: hybsil - may worship some centaur deities and sylvan deities
I agree.
quote: Aarakocra - betting they're listed somewhere worshipping someone
Aarakocra worship Syranita primarily; some worship other aerial deities (Aerdrie, Akadi, etc.). Dragon #124 mentioned Krocaa as their deity, but without much information. I plan on expanding upon him as a mate and counterpart to Syranita.
quote: Kenku
Quorlinn.
quote: Cloakers - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity
Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark inferred that they worship no deities, partly do to their alien mental nature. I actually like that.
quote: gibberling - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity WHEN they worship
No idea. Kind of doubt they worship anything.
quote: Shalarin - they already have one listed by chance, maybe a faerunian deity?
They have adopted Faerunian deities. I *think* later material (post 2e's Sea of Fallen Stars) claimed they came from oceans on the far side of the planet, but I would prefer them coming from another crystal sphere.
quote: Phaerimm - thinking worshipping some kind of far realm or fiendish entity
Not sure they worship anything. In fact, I would imagine they want to overthrow/destroy the gods. Been a while since I read up on them, though.
quote: Sharn - probably worship Mystra
No idea; I never really thought about them much.
quote: Alaghi - probably worshipped some dead deity, similar to Magnar the Bear relationship with Quaggoths
Various nature deities; Silvanus, Chauntea, Rillifane, etc.
quote: Chitine - is there one for these already (Lolth perhaps)?
Lolth, see Demihuman Deities.
quote: Loxo - Hiatea and/or Iallanis per Shining South
Really? Must have missed that. Doesn't seem to fit, IMO. Then again, they're also spelljamming immigrants, so their original deities probably don't have access to Realmspace. I've been wanting to develop their still-spelljamming brethren for a while.
quote: Saurial - they started worshipping Finder didn't they?
Their original world had some Realms-analogs, including deities of luck and justice. They've adopted the versions in the Realms, as well as Finder.
quote: tasloi - worship an aspect of Maglubiyet per shining south
No idea.
quote: Tlincali - Tlincalli priests may serve the Maztican deities Zaltec, Plutoq, or Nula. Noting this, as didn't some of these get transported to Amn, and therefore their deities may be interloping
I believe some did, although I vaguely recall there being a tunnel under the ocean. Also, I think some were already native to Faerun; someone else will have to confirm that, though.
quote: Thri-Kreen of the realms are noted as worshipping Tempus, though I'd be more inclined to say they worship Garagos
Spelljamming thri-kreen have an interesting but poorly detailed religion surrounding the "Mantis God of the Eternal Lotus," but terrestrial thri-kreen seem more savage. A non-evil hunting deity seems to be more appropriate to me.
quote: glouras - definitely sticking to the sylvan pantheon
IIRC, they're neutral and seen as messengers of Eilistraee, but they always struck me as being members of the Unseelie Court. They're introduced in a Dragon magazine around the 250s or 260s I believe, as well as Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11841 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 14:43:06
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On the Glouras thing... yeah, I ALWAYS pictured them as part of the unseelie court. I pictured them as being treated as somewhat royalty. Then the 3e version came out and made them "mostly good with the rare evil one". Personally, I prefer them the other way.... mostly evil with the rare good one. I would definitely have them worshipping the Queen of Air and Darkness for the evil ones, and I picture them as some kind of tainted/empowered other fairies. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11841 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 14:50:41
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Oh, and since you can spot them so directly, it would be a big improvement on your list if you listed the "main" worshippers of a given beside their names. Also, a source would be really good (though I recognize the kenku and aarakocra names now that you state which they're for, its not necessarily immediately apparent). That was one of the things that I really liked at the end of faiths and pantheons for 3e where they listed the monster deities. They listed the alignment, favored weapon, domains, symbol, portfolios, and worshipped by. I think your list would be of easier use if it included alignment, portfolios, worshipped by, and source (the favored weapons, domain, and symbol can all be looked up if someone is really interested... or "designed" if unavailable... i.e. DM pick the domains and favored weapons). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 19:28:10
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For the Kenku and Aarakocra, you may want to look over some of Gray Richardson's Creator Race musings; specifically, the stuff on the Aeree.
I think we don't need more gods for a lot of those others - rather, aspects of existing gods (along with fiends, archfey, Elemental lords, proto-gods, etc) should serve just fine. I like a lot of gods in my settings, but not with THAT MUCH overlap. I am sure just about everyone borrows a deity or two from someone else's pantheon.
As for the Shalaran - I think it would have been best had they been from Abeir, to tie new lore to old... opportunities, missed, and all that. That would mean their pantheon probably would have had few - if any - true gods.
Speaking of which, on the Tlincallis: I always felt the Maztica pantheon was really just the draconic pantheon under human aliases (its a near-perfect fit, except for one oddball). That would mean the scorpionmen could have 'brought back' the draconic pantheon to Faerûn, which has been mysteriously missing for some time (no true presence in The Realms). My thoughts on that is that Abeir is actually 'The True World' from Maztican legend, and most of the draconic deities wound-up over there*, which left only 'echoes' (vestiges) of them in the Realms (with the exception of Tiamet and Bahamut, who seem to be better at crossing over into other pantheons then the rest).
So basically, even if we have two different but very similar gods for different pantheons, chances are they just might be different aspects of the same archtype.
*Due to their more primal nature |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 15 Feb 2014 19:35:27 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2014 : 21:25:45
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Just a couple of notes:
In the Netheril books there is a convo between phaerimm where they mention their deities, but that's all of the info you get about them.
The Sharn are actually an amalgamation of elves (each sharn is several elves merged into one being, this is mentioned in the novel Blackstaff). So anyway this would mean they worship elven pantheon. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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AuldDragon
Senior Scribe
USA
574 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2014 : 04:28:45
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quote: Originally posted by sleyvas
On the Glouras thing... yeah, I ALWAYS pictured them as part of the unseelie court. I pictured them as being treated as somewhat royalty. Then the 3e version came out and made them "mostly good with the rare evil one". Personally, I prefer them the other way.... mostly evil with the rare good one. I would definitely have them worshipping the Queen of Air and Darkness for the evil ones, and I picture them as some kind of tainted/empowered other fairies.
I read their descriptions again (Dragon 227 and DDGttU), and they are definitely connected to the Unseelie Court. They're not actually malicious, but they aren't nice, either. I don't think they were tainted by the Queen of Air and Darkness herself, since they aren't evil; instead they may have been altered by the magic of the underdark and drawn to the Unseelie Court due to their changed nature.
quote: Originally posted by sleyvas
Oh, and since you can spot them so directly, it would be a big improvement on your list if you listed the "main" worshippers of a given beside their names. Also, a source would be really good (though I recognize the kenku and aarakocra names now that you state which they're for, its not necessarily immediately apparent). That was one of the things that I really liked at the end of faiths and pantheons for 3e where they listed the monster deities. They listed the alignment, favored weapon, domains, symbol, portfolios, and worshipped by. I think your list would be of easier use if it included alignment, portfolios, worshipped by, and source (the favored weapons, domain, and symbol can all be looked up if someone is really interested... or "designed" if unavailable... i.e. DM pick the domains and favored weapons).
The primary source is DMGR4 Monster Mythology for about 95% of these deities; the project is to update those entries to match the format of Faiths & Avatars. For primary sources, a better place to look would be my old 2nd edition deity spreadsheet (which hasn't been updated in a while, but I believe has almost all of the deities in the list): http://blog.aulddragon.com/2010/12/complete-second-edition-deity-spreadsheet/
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
For the Kenku and Aarakocra, you may want to look over some of Gray Richardson's Creator Race musings; specifically, the stuff on the Aeree.
Is that a thread on this forum? I'll look around for it.
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
I think we don't need more gods for a lot of those others - rather, aspects of existing gods (along with fiends, archfey, Elemental lords, proto-gods, etc) should serve just fine. I like a lot of gods in my settings, but not with THAT MUCH overlap. I am sure just about everyone borrows a deity or two from someone else's pantheon.
As a fan of Spelljammer, I think a lot of the races found in wildspace or native to other spheres should have their own pantheons (loxo are a good example) unless they're specified not to. That doesn't mean those gods are necessarily accessible from Toril or Realmspace, however. For creatures native to Toril, worshiping existing gods makes sense unless there aren't any suitable gods. On the other hand, I don't want to merge existing gods together, either, unless one is little more than a name. For example, I don't like merging Sune and Hanali or Aerdrie and Syranita, but I used the brief mention of a deity named "Vilya" in an adventure involving evil cloud giants to enhance the more detailed Memnor.
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
As for the Shalaran - I think it would have been best had they been from Abeir, to tie new lore to old... opportunities, missed, and all that. That would mean their pantheon probably would have had few - if any - true gods.
Shalarin were originally from "somewhere else" with the assumption it was offworld (they were created to operate as humans for an aquatic campaign); I believe 3e changed the source to the other side of Toril. I believe the distinction between Abeir and Toril came later still, so it would have been yet another ret-con.
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
Speaking of which, on the Tlincallis: I always felt the Maztica pantheon was really just the draconic pantheon under human aliases (its a near-perfect fit, except for one oddball). That would mean the scorpionmen could have 'brought back' the draconic pantheon to Faerûn, which has been mysteriously missing for some time (no true presence in The Realms). My thoughts on that is that Abeir is actually 'The True World' from Maztican legend, and most of the draconic deities wound-up over there*, which left only 'echoes' (vestiges) of them in the Realms (with the exception of Tiamet and Bahamut, who seem to be better at crossing over into other pantheons then the rest).
I don't really see the draconic deities as the Maztican deities; the latter are pretty clearly Central American deities with somewhat different names. Feel free to elaborate, though.
Jeff |
My 2nd Edition blog: http://blog.aulddragon.com/ My streamed AD&D Spelljamer sessions: https://www.youtube.com/user/aulddragon/playlists?flow=grid&shelf_id=18&view=50 "That sums it up in a nutshell, AuldDragon. You make a more convincing argument. But he's right and you're not." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11841 Posts |
Posted - 16 Feb 2014 : 13:57:34
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yeah, I'm not seeing much link between the dragon deities and the Maztican deities either. I just figure the Maztican pantheon's another pantheon just like the Kara-tur, Zakharan, and probably Osse and Anchorome have their own as well |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Feb 2014 : 12:50:45
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The Tlincallis are 'Scorpionmen', and in (RW) legend, Scorpionmen were created by Tiamet. I think that may be how I made the mental leap to the draconic pantheon. For a short time we had been trying to 'spruce up' the snore-fest that was Maztica over on the WotC boards, and that was one of the things we came up with. Of course, when 4e came out Maztica was gone, replaced by something way too similar to Faerûn, and once-again, no one was bothering to use it.
quote: Originally posted by The Arcanamach
The Sharn are actually an amalgamation of elves (each sharn is several elves merged into one being, this is mentioned in the novel Blackstaff). So anyway this would mean they worship elven pantheon.
Actually, according to the novel Blackstaff, the Sharn are composite beings made-up of several races, including - but not limited to - Elves, dwarves, and Humans.
quote: Originally posted by AuldDragon
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
For the Kenku and Aarakocra, you may want to look over some of Gray Richardson's Creator Race musings; specifically, the stuff on the Aeree.
Is that a thread on this forum? I'll look around for it. There IS a thread, but he also did two articles in The Candlekeep Compendium on them.
quote: Originally posted by Markustay
As for the Shalaran - I think it would have been best had they been from Abeir, to tie new lore to old... opportunities, missed, and all that. That would mean their pantheon probably would have had few - if any - true gods.
Shalarin were originally from "somewhere else" with the assumption it was offworld (they were created to operate as humans for an aquatic campaign); I believe 3e changed the source to the other side of Toril. I believe the distinction between Abeir and Toril came later still, so it would have been yet another ret-con.
Those decisions were made RW around the same time - it was 'revealed' that the Shalarin came from the other side of toril in The Grand History of the Realms, which worked as the prologue to 4e (Spellplague), and even before 4e was released we heard about Abeir. They could have just as easily said that the Shalarin were from Abeir, but the guys writing the tGHotR were not all 'in the loop' about the future plans of FR, even though those plans were already set-in-stone at that time. It was just another case of one hand not knowing what the other was doing.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Feb 2014 12:52:18 |
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