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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 13:47:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsych
Anyway, i have a question regarding elves and Shadow-magic.
As you've portrayed them, elves are a part of the Weave(or the Weave is part of them).
I would think in such circumstances that taking up the Shadow-weave should have unfortunate effects on an elf, especially as he becomes more and more dissociated from the Weave.
In the Return of the Archwizards trilogy by Troy Denning the elf Galaeron (sp?) takes up shadowmagic and as such, in game terms, probably becomes a shadow adept. If I remember correctly he was viewed as 'tainted' by the other elves because he could, at a later point, noz access the Weave anymore. Prior to this the Shadow Weave came more naturally to him and it took a strong force of will to 'switch' over to Weave magic. As I said he later lost the Weave touch completely.
My guess is, since elves are inherently Weave-bound, access and use(or taint) of the Shadow Weave causes elves to be 'severed' by the ties that bind his people together. If I remember correctly, during Reverie the elves are also able to 'share' experiences. Galaeron lost this ability. Other elves couldn't 'share' with him anymore, plus he did sleep as he was unable to enter Reverie. |
Mace's not so gentle gamer's journal My rants were harmless compared to this, beware! |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2006 : 17:26:16
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I'm going to say this very gingerly, and with plenty of disclaimers stating that I don't know for certain whether or not this is the case, but I'm not sure it's still accurate to say that elves are so attuned to the Weave that they are indeed a part of it. I'm not the person to ask about 3E elves.
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 00:48:30
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Elaine,
I've asked this question in Ed's scroll, but I'm also asking it here with you since you've also had a particular focus on bardic characters and musical stylings in the Realms previously.
Here's the original question I asked Ed just a few moments ago -
quote:
Ed,
Here's that previously mentioned "follow-up" question I discussed with you a while back regarding my music article for the Candlekeep Compendium.
I'm thinking about including a snippet of music with the article itself (my training as a classical musician only makes deciding on the right style for a piece of sheet music available through Arkiem Arren in Waterdeep all the more intriguing). But I want to know about actual musical notation in the Realms itself... and whether you have any particular lore (or thoughts) to share on the format of written (sheet) music? Does it conform to Earth standards? Are there differences in the ways in which elven music and dwarven music structural styles are recorded in notation form? Considerations like that...
I realise that this might be a particularly complex subject to consider fully since it may not be something you've completely mapped out before... but I'm willing to entertain any possible thoughts you may have on this.
Would you have any thoughts of your own to add to this?
And, like Ed, I understand how difficult thsee questions may be to answer specifically... but that's okay. Any thoughts you may have are better than what I've been thinking at the moment for this... and I'd rather have both your and Ed's words to guide me along.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 16 Mar 2006 00:51:03 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 14:59:51
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| Sage, I look at musical notation in much the same light as I regard Common. I think we all accept the notion that people in the Realms are not speaking English. The books are printed with a font more similar to Times New Roman than Thorass. We're getting a translation and a transcription. Any Realms music would undergo a similar cultural adaptation. So by all means, write it in standard real-world notation. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 15:56:43
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Thanks Elaine... that helps with what I'd already considered so far with relation to Realms musical notation.
I had considered adding a little Tolkien-influence with regard to Realms elven script music... based on the snippets Tolkien shared in his Letters. But I'd rather follow trends already prevalent in the setting as they are.
I'll wait to hear back from Ed before I put the final take on it.
Thanks again  .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Mar 2006 : 17:54:40
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| Sage, I don't think there ARE musical trends in the setting, unless Ed has some unpublished info. I'd be interested to hear what he has to say. :) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 17 Mar 2006 : 00:42:13
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Oh, there are trends... just not in any published info.
Ed and I have discussed this before. ::wink::
(some of which will be seen in the article once it' finally complete)
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Mar 2006 00:45:04 |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 18 Mar 2006 : 21:34:46
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I'm back.
Actually i do know about Galaeron, but it seems to me that what we saw happen to him should only be the preliminary effects.
Perhaps becoming a Shade would mitigate things somewhat, providing an alternate base substance of sorts, but otherwise i don't think that an elf should be able to handle the change without some very severe effects.
They're supposed to be beings of the Weave(or at least of magic akin to the Weave)
Hmm... game balance has taken a somewhat strange form in 3E. Some things are rather hard to swallow(like with the experience loss for making magical items. You should be gaining experience from making things, not losing it) |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 22:58:52
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I've been reading ("devouring") The City of Splendors novel, and I have a question regarding the whereabouts of Danilo Thann. Just where is he and what's he doing during the period when most of the action takes place? I still haven't read half of your books, Elaine (I'm getting there, though!), so perhaps someone who has read of Danilo's doings can answer, please....
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2006 : 23:56:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I've been reading ("devouring") The City of Splendors novel, and I have a question regarding the whereabouts of Danilo Thann. Just where is he and what's he doing during the period when most of the action takes place? I still haven't read half of your books, Elaine (I'm getting there, though!), so perhaps someone who has read of Danilo's doings can answer, please....
We last saw Danilo in DR 1368, three years before the main events of City of Splendors took place. Unfortunately, I can't say much about what he's been doing in the interim without giving spoilers for the next book.  |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 00:54:36
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
I've been reading ("devouring") The City of Splendors novel, and I have a question regarding the whereabouts of Danilo Thann. Just where is he and what's he doing during the period when most of the action takes place? I still haven't read half of your books, Elaine (I'm getting there, though!), so perhaps someone who has read of Danilo's doings can answer, please....
We last saw Danilo in DR 1368, three years before the main events of City of Splendors took place. Unfortunately, I can't say much about what he's been doing in the interim without giving spoilers for the next book.
Oooh! Elaine, you don't know how much I enjoyed hearing that .
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 07:06:25
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Elaine,
in one of our campaigns Master Thann vanished after (presumably) managing to penetrate the wards around the pyramids of Ascore, and apparently releasing the Evil that was bound there 
You should really take care whom you trust identifying Ahghairon's artifacts with 
(My character: "Why would he experiment with it? I completely trust him. After all, Master Thann is a nobleman of a respected House. Lezingeyr's Bracelet is safe with him.")
Still, I expect we haven't seen the last of him in that campaign... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 21:49:54
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Thanks for the "news"(?) about Danilo. I finished The City of Splendors early this A.M. and I must state that I was seriously agrieved. Jamallo Kreen (the character) is a regular patron of the Purple Silks! I think that when my campaign reaches 1371 we'll just relocate that little misadventure if I incorporate it into my game.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 24 Mar 2006 : 22:47:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Thanks for the "news"(?) about Danilo. I finished The City of Splendors early this A.M. and I must state that I was seriously agrieved. Jamallo Kreen (the character) is a regular patron of the Purple Silks! I think that when my campaign reaches 1371 we'll just relocate that little misadventure if I incorporate it into my game.
Have no fear--the Silks will be swiftly rebuilt into a monument of expensive bad taste. :) |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 28 Mar 2006 : 23:09:31
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| Elaine, in The City of Splendors there are many references along the lines of "Faerun rose up to meet him" or "Faerun spun around" to describe someone who was collapsing or passing out. Do folk in Faerun have a sense of being on a planet of which Faerun is only a part (and hardly the largest part at that!) or do most Faerunians regard Faerun as pretty much the be-all and end-all of the Realms? |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 29 Mar 2006 : 00:07:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Elaine, in The City of Splendors there are many references along the lines of "Faerun rose up to meet him" or "Faerun spun around" to describe someone who was collapsing or passing out. Do folk in Faerun have a sense of being on a planet of which Faerun is only a part (and hardly the largest part at that!) or do most Faerunians regard Faerun as pretty much the be-all and end-all of the Realms?
The particular construct you mentioned is one of Ed's phrases, but I assume the metaphor doesn't necessarily represent literal opinion or widespread assumptions about Aber-Toril geography. Most people know there are other places than Faerun. The Moonshaes and Evermeet, at the very least, are part of general knowledge. |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 06:34:14
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Another question Elaine:
If let's say, Evermeet was in battle with Shade enclave, what kind of magic would they have to call upon.
I'm not sure if the old chance of disaster on use of high-magic issue still applies, but even apart from that, most of the high-magic available to Evermeet seems to be non-offensive in nature.
Spells like turning Evil to Good, or Undeath to Life, are very intriguing, but not exactly super weapons.
It doesn't seem sensible to me that people with such spells would suddenly also have a spell to turn a whole mountain full of people into a single oversized toad(as an example). You generally work upward from what you have, not jump a mile up in one go.
Like the creation of the spelljammers, i don't think that a high mage would have found the action meaningful for defence/offense, unless it was actually worthwhile, on the scale of things that the high mages of Evermeet can do.
I suppose summoning more avatars of the Seldarine might be interesting though.
Also How many High Mages does Evermeet have?
(with the information we have on Shade enclave, it's very hard to judge exactly what mass offense or defense spells they would have, or be able to make. I personally expect their general knowledge of magic to be greater than the elves' by virtue of the more complete knowledge contained in the Nether Scrolls, but that doesn't mean that the elves couldn't have gone far beyond the Netherese in specialized domains) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 01 Apr 2006 : 19:08:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsych
Another question Elaine:
If let's say, Evermeet was in battle with Shade enclave, what kind of magic would they have to call upon.
I'm not sure if the old chance of disaster on use of high-magic issue still applies, but even apart from that, most of the high-magic available to Evermeet seems to be non-offensive in nature.
Spells like turning Evil to Good, or Undeath to Life, are very intriguing, but not exactly super weapons.
It doesn't seem sensible to me that people with such spells would suddenly also have a spell to turn a whole mountain full of people into a single oversized toad(as an example). You generally work upward from what you have, not jump a mile up in one go.
Like the creation of the spelljammers, i don't think that a high mage would have found the action meaningful for defence/offense, unless it was actually worthwhile, on the scale of things that the high mages of Evermeet can do.
I suppose summoning more avatars of the Seldarine might be interesting though.
Also How many High Mages does Evermeet have?
(with the information we have on Shade enclave, it's very hard to judge exactly what mass offense or defense spells they would have, or be able to make. I personally expect their general knowledge of magic to be greater than the elves' by virtue of the more complete knowledge contained in the Nether Scrolls, but that doesn't mean that the elves couldn't have gone far beyond the Netherese in specialized domains)
Hi, Zsych. Interesting post.
As you probably know, the novel Evermeet was written several years ago, under second edition rules. Third edition brought many changes to magic AND to elves. I really can't speculate about "current" elven matters, other than passing along something that has already been established in published novels and game products. I'm not aware of any official lore that might answer the questions you've raised.
If anyone here can shed some light on the matter, feel free to jump in. |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 17:10:14
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The 2nd edition answer is usually welcome :)
If the elves had spells and items in 2nd edition Evermeet, they probably still have them(unless a new sourcebook says otherwise... or at least that's the official PoV as far as i know)
Of course, the Shades themselves aren't showing their full Netherese potential, or i'd expect their industrialized society to by itself produce vastly more magic(not necessarily superior magic, but who can say :))
So again, what defences do you think that they'd have(from a purely personal PoV) and how many mages would they be able to field?
How fast can they generally move their forces about the island to combat a threat?
(Seriously, if you don't know, who does... :)) |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 18:36:57
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| You might want to turn to Ed to ask these questions.... Elaine, and she can correct me if I'm wrong, generally doesn't like to discuss stuff like that. :) |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Kajehase
Great Reader
Sweden
2104 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 18:39:52
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| Richard Baker might have something to say on the subject as well, considering he's written a trilogy that's likely had some effect on Evermeet's defences. |
There is a rumour going around that I have found god. I think is unlikely because I have enough difficulty finding my keys, and there is empirical evidence that they exist.
Terry Pratchett |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 20:41:23
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It's not a matter of not LIKING to discuss such things.
Keep in mind that Ed is in a unique position among authors, in that anything he says is canon until/unless it's contradicted by something WotC publishes. The rest of us write on a work-for-hire basis, which is specific to the project at hand. Everything we write is reviewed by WotC editors before it's published. Non-Ed authors simply CANNOT add to the lore in a casual, unedited, unauthorized fashion. If we did, maintaining continuity would be a nightmare. Also, WotC has added some contractual items designed to maintain continuity and protect their copyrights. I am very careful what I say online or in public. Unless the question is about a published work, I have to pass. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 03 Apr 2006 01:28:38 |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 02 Apr 2006 : 22:39:45
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
It's not a matter of not LIKING to discuss such things.
Keep in mind that Ed is in a unique position among authors, in that anything he says is canon until/unless it's contracted by something WotC publishes. The rest of us write on a work-for-hire basis, which is specific to the project at hand. Everything we write is reviewed by WotC editors before it's published. Non-Ed authors simply CANNOT add to the lore in a casual, unedited, unauthorized fashion. If we did, maintaining continuity would be a nightmare. Also, WotC has added some contractual items designed to maintain continuity and protect their copyrights. I am very careful what I say online or in public. Unless the question is about a published work, I have to pass.
That's what I meant, but it didn't come out the way I meant it to. :( Sorry. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 01:30:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
That's what I meant, but it didn't come out the way I meant it to.
I figured that, but it seemed a good idea to elucidate for those who are new to the forum. |
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Zsych
Acolyte
28 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 19:59:11
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Unfortunate.
Of course, you could PM me, but then i wouldn't be able to cite you as a source :)
Though it would admittedly be enough.
It is interesting the situation you are in. I was beginning to suspect something along those lines.
As for Ed, i'd normally consider his stuff canon, despite what WotC said :)
... though getting a response out of him might not be easy.
Hmm... you seem to have the highest number of responses of all of the FR writers(49 pages so far). Wonder what you guys talk about if everything outside of the novels is banned material.
btw, how did you get into the game of writing? and how well has it paid off(i mean that in both monetary and non-monetary terms)
... i'm thinking of writing myself when i have more free time to work on it.
(though i question my ability to discipline myself and get a whole book out :))
Too bad no one has had Harry Potter style success here.
We really need to analyze how that success came about.
From a miserable life to magic, and very easy magic at that, no hard work for the most part... Something that probably appeals to kids... though it obviously isn't the only factor. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 21:38:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsych
Hmm... you seem to have the highest number of responses of all of the FR writers(49 pages so far). Wonder what you guys talk about if everything outside of the novels is banned material.
Actually, Ed has the most replies. The current thread is in the third incarnation -- he gets a new one every year, to keep things somewhat under control. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 03 Apr 2006 : 21:44:28
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
Elaine, in The City of Splendors there are many references along the lines of "Faerun rose up to meet him" or "Faerun spun around" to describe someone who was collapsing or passing out. Do folk in Faerun have a sense of being on a planet of which Faerun is only a part (and hardly the largest part at that!) or do most Faerunians regard Faerun as pretty much the be-all and end-all of the Realms?
The particular construct you mentioned is one of Ed's phrases, but I assume the metaphor doesn't necessarily represent literal opinion or widespread assumptions about Aber-Toril geography. Most people know there are other places than Faerun. The Moonshaes and Evermeet, at the very least, are part of general knowledge.
Thanks, Elaine. The phrase caught my attention because I was also reading the first book in the Cloakmaster cycle and at one point Teldin realizes that he does not know the name of the planet on which Ansalon is located.
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I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 04 Apr 2006 : 01:37:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Zsych
Wonder what you guys talk about if everything outside of the novels is banned material.
Well, we mostly talk about the novels.
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1425 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 09:42:45
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I won't ask any more Moonblade questions since I note you're rather deluged by them in this thread.
Though to point something out way back---Moonblade's brutality actually reinforce their specialness. A hero who has a Moonblade is genuinely one whom is approved of by the gods as opposed to one who just knows how to fight. I had a fun situation where overwhelmed by the Moonblade's power; I simply said that Moonblades had no magical abilities whatsoever in my game but a +3 bonus, STILL killed you, and only kept the cultural significance. They STILL went after it like Scrooge over gold, threw away a perfectly good +5 too.
Frankly, with all due respect you left me in a very uncomfortable position where a half-elf character's player RPGed out a year and a half of questing, quasi religious purification rites, and elven 'do goodery' to be worthy of his family's blade. What was I supposed to tell the fellow? Ooops, sorry, you're toast. Your explanation in Arilyn's case was very good though. I just sort of assumed the Seldarine lifted up Arilyn as an example "You don't have to be 'bloodpure' to be a true elf.'
(and I know its one of those situations but it was one of those cases where the character's entire arc was built around him trying to prove himself a true elf to a people who didn't consider him one---even if there was no hostility necessarily)
In retrospect, knowing your answer I would have let the light of the Moonblade go out and RPGed through the bitter hatred and rejection he must have felt at the Seldarine betraying him any chance to prove himself a hero to the elves.
My question is regarding Arilyn's father Bran. Did you deliberately set out to make their meeting less than storybook? I always felt that it was much more realistic than the usual "long lost father" meetings that occur in books. It struck me as much more realistic with Arilyn not seeming to particularly like the man whom left her for years as the ward of Kymil.
Thanks for your time.
(Oh and at the risk of sounding fanboyish, love your novels etc etc and obviously so do my players!)
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 06 Apr 2006 09:48:53 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Apr 2006 : 13:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
My question is regarding Arilyn's father Bran. Did you deliberately set out to make their meeting less than storybook?
That was the plan, yes. Kymil was setting Arilyn up as the Harper assassin. Bran's job was to find the person who was assassinating Harpers. Basic conflict there--hardly the stuff of joyous family reunions. Also, Arilyn grew up knowing nothing about her father, not even his name. Some children romanticize a missing parent, but Arilyn noted how sad the mention of him made her mother, and learned to shut the door on any hope of knowing him. It's pretty tough to undo the attitudes and habits of nearly four decades. And consider that, for the past twenty years or so, Kymil Nimesin was the closest thing to a father figure Arilyn had. Kymil's betrayal would make her even less inclined to shriek "Daddy!" and weep happy tears all over Bran's tunic. Not that that's Arilyn's style in the best of circumstances. |
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Questions for Elaine Cunningham
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