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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 20:42:58
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That one really save my friday afternoon. I will need to print this, to lighten that tedious moments...   |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
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Brom Greenstar
Acolyte
Argentina
25 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 20:44:05
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| jajajajaja i'll use that with my party priestess who keeps pushing to meet Drizzt |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2005 : 21:45:07
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
This is probably as good a time as any to re-post what has become my standard response to a should-Drizzt-meet-Liriel question
Yes, that was just the one I was referring to.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 02:47:42
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So, what exactly would happen in Elaith met Liriel? Now there is two chaotic people who play off each other well.. besides the natural instinct to kill each other.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Goki
Acolyte
2 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 12:45:40
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quote:
Drizzt is very lofty and noble, trying to hold himself to high ideals. And he's always been like that...
I seem to recall that Drizzt has to hold himself together to stop himself from going into a murderous rage in the heat of the battle...
quote:
Originally posted by Faraer
quote:
And why are authors hesistant to write stories centered around a protagonist who is a "bad-guy" (or gal for that matter) and remains one?
Because it's a contradiction in terms. The idea of a villainous protagonist is lexically null: it simply can't be parsed within the grammar of story.
I very much disagree. "Good" and "Evil" are relative. There is a brilliant example of this in the Book of Vile Darkness -Two "Good" Paladins fighting for opposing forces trying to use "Smite Evil" against each other in the field of battle, under the notion that since the other does not believe in his cause he much be "Evil" (alas, it did not give a useable solution to this dilemma). There is a fine line between "Good" and "Evil", I did not mean write about a outright murderous villian to whom no one can relate to. I was referring to a character who never was taught the concept of "Good", and even when met with it, could not understand it, nor accept it. Or at the very least, a character who transforms from "Good" to "Evil", through loss, mistrust, hate etc (For want of a better example; Darth Vader, also I heard from a friend that Rastlin is an example of an "Evil" character -I am not familiar with Dragonlance) and STAYS that way till death. A lost soul who never finds redemption. I think such a character will be complex to create, write and justify (atleast within the Fantasy genre like Elaine said). It will probably require a lot of subjective narration.
I just feel that within Faerun fiction, the concept of "Evil" is being treated like some sort of a "NPC", a taboo, or just mindless-idiots who were born only to die at the hands of some righteous paladin.
Thank you Elaine Cunningham for the response, I very much appreciate it :) It clears up a lot of things in regards to Liriel Baenre. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 13:16:42
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
I don't think a meeting with Drizzt and Liriel would go all that well either. Remember, Liriel is riding with her soul sisters, and unless something has changed, Thorn would most likely try to kill Drizzt on sight.
And if they did get through all of that - they have such cross values that they would never be able to hang out or adventure together.
Every Drow that comes to the surface has their reason, and it's not always the same.
C-Fb
Why would Thorne do that? Drizzt is so good that a detect good spell would pick him up five miles away. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 14:40:36
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
So, what exactly would happen in Elaith met Liriel? Now there is two chaotic people who play off each other well.. besides the natural instinct to kill each other.
Liriel is a drow; Elaith is, despite his lifestyle choices, a rather conventional elf, and he hold in full measure the elven distrust of drow. He would very likely attact Liriel on sight.
Liriel grew up with the same prejudices, only reversed. Her reaction to the first surface elf she ever saw was to yell to Fyodor, "Kill it!" By the end of Starlight & Shadows, however, her perspective has broadened considerable, and I suspect she would not attack Elaith unless he pissed her off. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 15:03:59
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quote:
Originally posted by khorne
Why would Thorn do that? Drizzt is so good that a detect good spell would pick him up five miles away.
Assuming such as spell were cast, yes, and assuming that Thorn's suspicion would be disarmed by magical confirmation of a good alignment. I suspect it would not: Thorn has no reason to believe that good intentions will necessarily lead to good results.
Thorn is a lythari; her nature is as much wolf as it is elf. The hunt is a matter of survival, the hunted not always an object of pity. Conversely, she is not going to assume the hunter is always righteous. She is not likely to side with a group of good-aligned villagers determined to slay a vixen because the fox may or may not have killed some chickens. Frankly, it wouldn't matter to her overmuch whether or not the fox was "guilty." She has a hard time with the notion of property, and killing chickens isn't a moral issue. After all, the humans intended to kill the chickens, themselves, didn't they? That the fox was quicker to do so is of no concern to Thorn: wolves don't turn on the pack's swift-runner just because he or she makes the kill the rest intended.
Civilized humans, no matter how "good" they are, often do things she finds incomprehensible. Forests have been destroyed, fires set, and wars started by the righteous. Thorn is no more likely to let down her guard around a paladin of Tyr than she is a cleric of Cyric. From a wolf's perspective--and frankly, to some degree from an elf's as well--a "good" human can be every bit as dangerous as an "evil" one.
Drizzt is a ranger, which would buy him some points with Thorn, but she's not about to cozy up to ANYONE just because some generic paladin spell tells her that person is "good." |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 17 Sep 2005 15:12:23 |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 18:25:31
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And that being so, it makes Thorn one of the most straight forward characters around. I don't think she was ever overly concerned with the secret motives and hidden plots that Liriel or the Vhaeraunites had. She was sent on a mission and she did it to the best of her abilities.
Very well written character! In fact, I think I'll go read the Starlight and Shadows series again on my train ride across the nation. Thanks again, Elaine! 
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 19:11:40
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
And that being so, it makes Thorn one of the most straight forward characters around. I don't think she was ever overly concerned with the secret motives and hidden plots that Liriel or the Vhaeraunites had. She was sent on a mission and she did it to the best of her abilities.
Very well written character! In fact, I think I'll go read the Starlight and Shadows series again on my train ride across the nation. Thanks again, Elaine!
C-Fb
A train ride across the nation! What a great experience. Enjoy!
Thanks, C-Fb, for the kind words and for raising interesting points. I enjoy discussing character development and motivation. For me, that's where stories start.
Unfortunately, such discussions tend to lead to . . . stories that want to start. Over the past few days a storyline has been percolating the the back of my mind, taking shape into a trilogy that is unlikely to see the light of day. Three books, each one focusing primarily on one of the characters: Liriel, Thorn, and Sharlarra, in that order, working titles:
Daughter of Darkness
Hunter by Moonlight
Sisters of Starlight |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 19:16:31
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| I get the impression that Thorn is the "shoot first, never ask questions" type |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 19:56:51
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And that, in my opinion is what makes her character most enjoyable in the books.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 20:02:42
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Elaine . . . you know Steven and Ed both have some wizard contacts . . . maybe you could throw a few suggestion spells the way of the WOTC book department. Ah well . . . we can always hope that someday they come to you and say . . . whatever you want to write, we'll put on the schedule, as long as we get to see an outline . . .
Of course, if they DID say that to you, and gave you, say, a three book deal, what would you outline for them? |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 20:07:26
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I was listening to a soung that might bring a smile to Danilo's face. Has anyone heard the country song "Alcohol" by Brad Paisley.
The main chorus goes..
And since the day I left Milwaukee
Lyncheburg Bourdeaux, France
Been makin the bars
lots of big money
and helpin white people dance
I got you in trouble in high school
But college, now that was a ball
you had some of the best times
you'll never remember with me
Alcohol, Alcohol
Thoughts? But I could see Danilo using humour in his songs and Mr. Paisley has constantly used hints of humour in his songs and videos. Like Celebrity (Which pokes fun at their wild behavours or the reality stars) or Going to miss her (Which the video uses the idea of leaving your girlfriend to go fishing). |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 17 Sep 2005 20:16:21 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 21:01:46
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Of course, if they DID say that to you, and gave you, say, a three book deal, what would you outline for them?
I'm currently working on a proposal, so I really can't answer this question without confusing the completely hypothetical with the merely improbable. ;)
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 21:17:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
I was listening to a soung that might bring a smile to Danilo's face.
Hard to say, Foxhelm, as much of the humor is contingent upon an understanding of cultural references that have no resonance in the Realms.
Danilo: "Hmmm... I don't know the names of these places, or what significance they might hold. And what is this 'bar' that the narrator claims to enrich? College, I understand, but in what possible way could it be described as a 'ball?' Obviously the narrator of this oddly-twanging ballad is a dance master of sorts, but what significance in his comment about teaching 'white people' to dance? Is he referring to moon elves? They are the palest people I know. Finally, who or what is 'alchohol?'"
Cultural reference would make Weird Al completely incomprehensible to Dan--if indeed he could abide the man's brash manner and Hawaiian shirts long enough to listen to his song parodies. I can, however, see Danilo appreciating some of Tom Lehrer's songs. The sentiments expressed in "Poisoning Pidgeons in the Park" would resonate with any city dweller, in any world. :)
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Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 17 Sep 2005 21:48:13 |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 21:21:42
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| Hey, no problem . . . I wish you absolutely only the best in that case . . . |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 21:26:18
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Point. Still, it might be interesting to see the effect if one was to give a state of Referance to either of the players. Either giving Danilo the knowledge of our world or moving Mr. Paisley's music to the realm's style.
Still it might be interesting to see the expression on Danilo's face if he was to see the crop of Pop Tarts videos? Or Arilyn if she noticed him watching a little too closely? Especially the later Britney videos like Toxic or I'm a slave 4 you.
I wonder if he would suggest the costume Britney waers in Toxic (The sci-fi air stewardess) for Arilyn. It is a light shade of blue after all. It might go with her eyes and complexion.
I forget if I asked you, but...
Have you ever wonder what your characters would think about the books that you write about them if they were to see them in this world?
Thanks for responding to me. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
Edited by - Foxhelm on 17 Sep 2005 21:42:36 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 21:47:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
Point. Still, it might be interesting to see the effect if one was to give a state of Referance to either of the players. Either giving Danilo the knowledge of our world or moving Mr. Paisley's music to the realm's style.
Still it might be interesting to see the expression on Danilo's face if he was to see the crop of Pop Tarts videos? Or Arilyn if she noticed him watching a little too closely? Especially the later Britney videos like Toxic or I'm a slave 4 you.
I wonder if he would suggest the costume Britney waers in Toxic (The sci-fi air stewardess) for Arilyn. It is a light shade of blue after all. It might go with her eyes and complexion.
I forget if I asked you, but...
Have you ever wonder what your characters would think about the books that you write about them if they were to see them in this world?
Thanks for responding to me.
Interesting questions, and not annoying, but nevertheless impossible to answer. I just don't think of my characters in the context of this world. They are who they are, and like all of us, their characters and personalities have been shaped by their circumstances. To move them SO far out of context would require reimagining them almost entirely.
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 17 Sep 2005 : 22:51:59
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Ms. Cunningham -
First, thanks for being open and answering questions, both silly and serious. I was just wondering if this next trilogy you are outlining for WotC had anything to do with the Elves of the Realms? You have a great hold on the culture presented in Faerun, and I don't think I'd be the only one who wanted you to write more.
Then again, I understand the comment above, and if you can't say, well... I'd rather you keep your livelihood as successful as possible. :)
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2005 : 09:47:09
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
And that, in my opinion is what makes her character most enjoyable in the books.
C-Fb
It has kind of the opposite effect for me. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 02:43:47
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Well, I am partial to the whole werewolf thing - and if you combine Elves (my fave) with wolves (great animal) you can't go wrong. Even though the Lythari do not have a hybrid form, I do believe they are much better portrayed that way.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36793 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 03:31:50
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| Elaine, were the lythari your creation, or something you picked up and ran with? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31716 Posts |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 21 Sep 2005 : 11:00:29
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| I believe ELVES OF EVERMEET introduced the lythari. It was definitely a primary source for SILVER SHADOWS, which also had a lythari character. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 00:36:56
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"X" marks the spot
How is the initial click in "Xzorsh" better pronounced -- off of the inner cheek, like the sound made to get a horse going, or off of the roof of the mouth?
(Sorry if this has been answered already -- the search function is slow just now.) |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2005 : 12:09:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
"X" marks the spot
How is the initial click in "Xzorsh" better pronounced -- off of the inner cheek, like the sound made to get a horse going, or off of the roof of the mouth?
(Sorry if this has been answered already -- the search function is slow just now.)
I can say with some certainty that this question has never been answered. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time it's been ASKED. :)
The click is against the roof of the mouth, against the soft palate. The tip of the touch remains fixed behind the teeth throughout. |
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2005 : 00:55:33
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
"X" marks the spot
How is the initial click in "Xzorsh" better pronounced -- off of the inner cheek, like the sound made to get a horse going, or off of the roof of the mouth?
(Sorry if this has been answered already -- the search function is slow just now.)
I can say with some certainty that this question has never been answered. To the best of my knowledge, this is the first time it's been ASKED. :)
The click is against the roof of the mouth, against the soft palate. The tip of the touch remains fixed behind the teeth throughout.
Thank you very much. I'm reading the series inside out: Tangled Webs first and tomorrow Daughter of the Drow. Not only does it help my reading to be able to pronounce Xzorsh's name correctly, but should he ever appear as an NPC in my campaign, I can at least pronounce his name properly for my players. |
I have a mouth, but I am in a library and must not scream.
Feed the poor and stroke your ego, too: http://www.freerice.com/index.php.
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Iakhovas
Acolyte
Germany
13 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 22:44:21
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Hi Elaine,
I sent you an email a few days back and was wondering if you received it. Oh well, just wondering because you usually replied promptly in the past. So I presume you are busy. I'll just get to the gist of my email in this thread.
I reread Elfsong and I loved it as much as the first time I read it, which was years ago. And it occurred to me just how much I liked Vartain and Morgalla, two minor characters who nonetheless were quite memorable to me... especially when and how they interacted with Elaith. Just the mere thought of those two somehow "on the road" with Elaith again fills my imagination with lively scenes that crack me up.
So I was wondering if you would ever consider featuring Vartain and Morgalla again together with Elaith in future projects. It would be a pity to see these two fun characters fade away. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 08 Oct 2005 : 23:15:56
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Hi, Mord!
Yes, I did receive your email and I responded to it. Unfortunately, my computer's been offline for a week or so, and I've been retrieving my mail via a remote connection. I wonder how many other response haven't gotten where they were supposed to go...
But back to your question. I really liked Morgalla, and the notion of a political cartoonist in the Realms, and I would be interested in revisting her in a future story. Vartain I'm not so sure about. He was a riddle master, which was a second edition bard kit. There's nothing really comparable in 3.5, so he might seem rather anachronistic these days. Also, as much as I would like to return to Elaith, I have a list of stories I'd like to tell, and a road trip with characters from ELFSONG, although certainly an interesting notion, would probably be four or five spots down that list. Here's hoping for the opportunity to do just that! :)
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Questions for Elaine Cunningham
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