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Baernaloths and 3rd edition Forgotten Realms

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VexHaus
Acolyte

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2014 : 00:49:30

I've always been fascinated by the baernaloths, from their supposed role in the creation of the fiendish races to their mysterious agendas and interests in the Blood War to their self-imposed exile and disappearance in the Gray Wastes. To me they really represent a lot of the mystique and politics of the lower planes with some potential for unique campaign backstory. Unfortunately most source material on the baernaloths I've come across seems to be 2e Planescape books, which, while still apparently compatible with 2e Forgotten Realms, obviously presents a significant problem for 3e Forgotten Realms cosmology.

Is there any canonical 3.X Forgotten Realms source that mentions anything about the baernaloths or at least heavily infers a niche in the World Tree cosmology's fiendish planes they could potentially occupy? Is there anything even in 3.X generic D&D books that mentions much about the baernaloths beyond the yugoloth creation myths which could dovetail with Realms planar lore?

xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore

USA
1853 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2014 : 05:24:15

I was also a fan of the baernaloths, and meant to do more reading into the Planescape stuff to find out more about them, but my local game stores never seemed to have the books (or they were quickly sold out).

I haven't seen any sign of them in 3e. My solution to the cosmology problem would be to ignore the World Tree and continue using the Planescape material since it makes more sense... but that's just me. :P

hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1152 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2014 : 06:27:07

I think there was a brief mention in the 4e Demonomicon but nothing I can remember from any 3e source.

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VexHaus
Acolyte

USA
6 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2014 : 12:37:48

Haha well as much as I find the Planescape setting fascinating in many ways, I'm not one to simply dismiss the World Tree out of hand. I think explicitly tying the "outer planes" to deities and faiths gives them more of a sense of supernatural wonder than just being a collection of large dungeons filled with native monsters of ABC alignment providing XYZ challenge level (which obviously was never the intention of the Planescape setting to begin with, but I can definitely see a really lazy DM treating it as such).

Edited by - VexHaus on 01 Feb 2014 12:38:23

Shemmy
Senior Scribe

USA
492 Posts

Posted - 01 Feb 2014 : 20:31:30

Depends on how you define canonical 3.x really. Only something branded under the FR banner? Or is material that's canonical to the Great Wheel likewise still canonical with FR? I hold the latter to largely be the case, but that's just me.

There are quite a few 3.x references to the baern. Harishek ap Thulkesh the 'Blind Clockmaker' is referenced in Dragon 353 in the article 'Multiple Dementia' in the context of the demiplane that he/she/it inhabits. Fwiw I wrote that piece.

Next the baern are mentioned in 3.x's Fiendish Codex I, which also puts a twist on the 'loth creation myth by stating that the baern didn't create the 'loths, tanar'ri and baatezu, but rather they created the 'loths, obyriths, and ancient baatorians.

The baern were also mentioned in the 4e Demonomicon. Nothing there necessarily conflicts with previous 2e or 3.x mentions of the baernaloths, which was pretty cool to see.

The baern subsequently get name dropped in some of the Demonomicon and other articles in Dragon and Dungeon magazines (need to double check the issue numbers, but I think Dragon 359 and Dungeon 150). There's a reference to Shaktari being imprisoned in the Wells of Darkness by an unnamed baernaloth, and Cabiri was also mentioned as being imprisoned in the Wells of Darkness for having found out too much about the baernaloths.

Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.

Edited by - Shemmy on 02 Feb 2014 03:01:45

George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6666 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 02:51:15

Eric Boyd wrote the Wells of Darkness DUNGEON adventure so you can bet your house it would be FR compatible. The adventure even has an FR Easter egg in it!

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Shemmy
Senior Scribe

USA
492 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 03:05:25

Additionally, the 2e Planescape module 'Squaring the Circle' has events engineered by the baernaloth Daru ib Shamiq. The fallout of that module is later referenced in a 2e FR product (which one in specific escapes me at the moment).

hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore

United Kingdom
1152 Posts

Posted - 02 Feb 2014 : 07:28:40