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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 13:51:39
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First off, I just want to say I really love ruins. I love being a player and discovering them, and being a DM and creating them.
I want to dedicate this thread to all the ruins of the Forgotten Realms. Post any lore you have about various ruins, chat about your favourite ruins, or even ruins that you plan on creating.
One set of ruins I wish we had more information on is Shoonach. I am really intrigued by the ruins and I want to run a campaign there. If anyone has any more info on it, please post it.
Cheers
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“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 14:04:15
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| I want more information on drowned Soorenar, but for me that's just because Velsharoon's Tower Terrible was there. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 15:03:11
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I'd love to have some info on Jhaamdathi ruins in the Sea of Fallen Stars.
For one of my adventure Hooks, I created a Netherese enclave under the Sea of Swords. The place had an air shield that collapsed when Karsus cast his Ultimate Folly spell, and is now filled with water and unique, spellcasting undead. I didn't really detail it, though, other than just naming the place and giving a rough location for it. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 18:05:55
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| I would also like more info on Raumathar. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 18:17:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
I would also like more info on Raumathar.
Umm, ditto to the extreme (though I'd be even more interested in something detailing the actual history/movers & shakers of Raumathar/Narfell). I'd love a resource that details the cities, religions, magic, power groups, maps of the country at different points in history, etc... of this now defunct pair of civilizations. I know that recently myself and a couple other keepers were making our own stuff for Dun-Tharos/Narathmault as well, but I'd be interested in seeing some specific lore related to Dun-Tharos and the areas explored by Narfell. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 21:16:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Shadowsoul
First off, I just want to say I really love ruins. I love being a player and discovering them, and being a DM and creating them.
I would like to see the full blown detailing of the Haunted Halls plus all the side dungeons that are associated with it (and I suppose I will need another more detailed overview of Eveningstar as well  )
I reckon a 196 page hardback book with poster maps of the dungeon levels and the village should just about cover everything  
Cheers
Damian
ps also the Ed version of Halaster's Halls (Undermountain) would be great, even just level 1, just as a curiosity to look upon and compare and constrast |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 21:25:47
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Ditto to the Haunted Halls, Raumathar, and SHOONACH. The others as well but of those mentioned those 3 are my primary. As for Undermountain, ANYTHING produced direct from Ed's homebrew gets my vote. I also want to see more abandoned/lost dwarf holds dating all the way back to their 'golden' age. If wishes really did come true there would be material produced to play throughout history. Ruins for Illefarn/Earlann would be nice too. I could go on and on here folks.
@Wooley: Care to give some details for your underwater enclave even if they are just ideas in your head? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 21:33:01
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| Oh, I will include here that I have a (secret) location where a star ship crashed thousands of years ago (as in before recorded history). If I could get my hands on a good map for a capitol ship from Star Wars I would use it. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
Edited by - The Arcanamach on 18 Dec 2013 21:37:55 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 21:45:13
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There aren't 'ruins'. Its just 'ruin'.
You see, when you delve deep enough, every ruin connects to every other ruin. Faerűn is really just one, massive dungeon.
But seriously - most of them do connect to the Upperdark, which means they really do all connect. Its theoretically possible to walk from Undermountain to the Haunted Halls without ever breaching the surface.
EDIT: Same for me with Raumathar, but I would really like to see a novel series featuring their wars (with Narfell) and their fall. In fact, I would love to see an entire series of 'lost Empires' detailed in novels (Mulhorand, Unther, Shoon Imperium, Jhaamdath, Imaskar, etc). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 18 Dec 2013 21:48:38 |
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farinal
Learned Scribe
Turkey
270 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 22:10:47
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| Check the Lost Empires of Faerun. It has some rules about creating ruings etc. |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2013 : 23:14:29
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quote:
Originally posted by farinal
Check the Lost Empires of Faerun. It has some rules about creating ruings etc.
Oh I do so love that book, but sadly it only gives you a little bit of information that doesn't really scratch the surface. It's a tease really. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31727 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 02:20:23
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Raumathar seems to be the order of the day. And I'd support calls for that.
...
In terms of ruins I'd like to learn more about ... well, I could cheat and say "All of them" because the armchair-archaeologist in me loves this aspect of the setting.
Off the top of my head, though, and just as a more immediate answer for this scroll, I'd say:- Myth Adofaer/Adofhaor. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 04:16:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There aren't 'ruins'. Its just 'ruin'.
You see, when you delve deep enough, every ruin connects to every other ruin. Faerűn is really just one, massive dungeon.
But seriously - most of them do connect to the Upperdark, which means they really do all connect. Its theoretically possible to walk from Undermountain to the Haunted Halls without ever breaching the surface.
EDIT: Same for me with Raumathar, but I would really like to see a novel series featuring their wars (with Narfell) and their fall. In fact, I would love to see an entire series of 'lost Empires' detailed in novels (Mulhorand, Unther, Shoon Imperium, Jhaamdath, Imaskar, etc).
Totally agreed on the novel series based in the various lost empires of the realms. The one thing I see WotC missing out on is the fact that everything they do has to be "happening now". They had that lost empires novel line at one point, and I really think it was a damn good series. I'd love to see more of this kind of stuff. Show us these cultures. Show us what happened in the past. We're just as interested in that as we are in current day (sometimes moreso). Prequels still make for good reading. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2013 : 14:27:13
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| The complete Haunted Halls of Eveningstar would be a BIG job. FRQ1 only covered the 1st level and suggested that you would need a complete set of mining apparatus and literally years of work to clear out the entire complex. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2013 : 15:22:39
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Oh, and they ABSOLUTELY need to get George Krashos onboard for any sort of Raumathar lore/book.
The little we got in novels - Mark Sehestedt's Frostfell - was a very entertaining story, but to be honest, he went in a very weird direction with Raumathar (one that didn't quite jibe with everything else we've heard). He also went in his own direction with the Lythari (not that it was a bad direction - I like his body of work - it just didn't seem like he based stuff on much previous lore).
I think Krash would be up to the job of Marrying Mark's 'druid vibe' with the previous 'artificer' vibe we had. The one thing the novel did do was explain how Raumathar was a VERY different culture at the beginning then it was by the end of the war (as they stole Narfelli fiend-magics and put them to their own use, it corrupted them). Although the two concepts seem at odds, it actually all comes together by adding-in a 3rd bit of obscure lore - the Copper Demon of Troos. Basically, using some form of 'enchanted armor' (precursors to the Helmed Horrors? Or vice-versa?) to capture a demon's lifeforce and force it to do your bidding (similar to how the Imaskari and Zakharans employ lamps/whatnot to bind elementals).
And if you say Troos was the capital of Tsharoon, it all comes together.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Dec 2013 15:26:11 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2013 : 15:28:00
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| I just love the idea of the Raumathari Battlemages. I want MORE MORE MORE! |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2013 : 22:14:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The little we got in novels - Mark Sehestedt's Frostfell - was a very entertaining story, but to be honest, he went in a very weird direction with Raumathar (one that didn't quite jibe with everything else we've heard). He also went in his own direction with the Lythari (not that it was a bad direction - I like his body of work - it just didn't seem like he based stuff on much previous lore
We can reconcile his lythari lore by making his lythari be an entirely separate branch. My personal theory is that they were once regular lythari, but were somehow called to service to that spirit thing (it's been ages since I read the book). As a mark of their service, they were "modified" in some way, tying them to the area and the spirit, and losing their ancestral connection to the lythari dimension.
So his lythari and Elaine's lythari have common ancestry, but hers remained "true" and his became a new type of lythari. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2013 : 22:35:09
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Well, yeah... I said that I liked his take. It just needs some 'cleaning up' by a guy who really knows the eastern Realms, and that would be George Krashos.
Mark Sehestedt just took the Raumathari (at first) down a very nature-based, druidic path. Now druids (especially in the east) deal with 'spirits' all the time - just look at Rashemen. Thats probably where he got the idea for Raumathar. However, the Raumathari were also known to use mechanical monstrosities - clockwork golems and automaton juggernaughts - and we need to merge those two. They may sound like opposite ends of the magical spectrum, but don't some constructs require 'summoned spirits' to empower them? So perhaps they used nature spirits at first, and as the war progressed, they stole arcanotech from their enemies, and found how to bind fiends into devices. So who they were, and who they turned into could be two very different things.
Nothing he wrote is unfixable, and the stories were good - I only wanted to suggest some 'sprucing up' to get everything to flow together nicely; what you just suggested is a perfect example of that.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Dec 2013 14:04:40 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11809 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2013 : 05:12:06
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There's three different perspectives shown for Raumathar, and they desperately need to downplay the "all Raumathari were running around with construct servants" aspect. The one most true to Raumathar is the "battlemage". Given that Rashemen is a warrior haven that celebrates physical prowess, it's not a far stretch to think that their wizards also focused some on physical combat. Then throw in that the "Raumathari Battlemage" prestige class also focuses on combat with weapons. My personal preference is that the Raumathari focused on nature magic AND had a fascination with metal work and metal magic (primarily steel, which was an improvement over the brass technology of the nearby Mulan cultures). The constructs that they created were probably infusions of elemental spirits into constructed bodies (most commonly of metal) and less of a "clockwork golem" that we've seen shown of recent. Thus, I see the Raumathari culture focusing on earth and fire magic, with a specialty in metal magic. I see them focusing on melee combat and magics that improve a person's ability to react in physical combat. The one thing I'd like to see disappear is this focus on "bastard swords" that was shown by the prestige class (which, I like the weapon, but it shouldn't be a defining trait). I'd also like to see the Raumathari culture learning to wear armor and cast, as a kind of intermarrying of their use of metals. I'd also like to see the Raumathari culture learning to wield weapons/shields and cast (ala somatic weaponry). Perhaps this requires they learn still spell before entering the prestige class. Finally, I'd say that the prestige class should require knowledge of martial weapons (which it does currently). Essentially, if you took the spellsword prestige class (which came after and utilized ideas from the Raumathari Battlemage) and modified it to include
additional requirements
combat casting, still spell, craft magic arms and armor
Language requirements from Raumathari Battlemage
Armor requirement changes: ability to wear light armor
class changes
Add a special note on the ignore spell failure (see below)
HIT DIE CHANGE: reduce the hit die from d8 to d6
+1 lvl spellcasting at every level except 4th and 8th rather than every other level (major change, so, gaining 8 caster lvls over 10 lvls instead of 5)
at 1st lvl add sword focus from Raumathari Battlemage prestige class
at 2nd lvl add somatic weaponry and remove the bonus feat. Also, add a metamagic pool (see below)
at 5th lvl add sublime sword from Raumathari Battlemage prestige class and remove the ignore spell failure 20%
at 6th lvl add craft construct feat (even if he doesn't have craft wondrous item) and remove the channel spell 4/day
at 7th lvl reduce ignore spell failure from 25% to 20%
at 8th lvl add choice of either magical artisan (craft magic arms& armor) or magical artisan (craft construct) and remove the channel spell 5/day
at 9th lvl add construct secret (see below) and remove the ignore spell failure percentage 30%
at 10th lvl Add improved sublime sword (see below) remove multiple channel spell
Rules for metamagic pool - +1 point in pool per class level in Raumathari Battlemage. Each point can be used to spontaneously add the effects of either silent spell, still spell, empower spell, quicken spell, or maximize spell. Raumathari Battlemage must have the feat to be used (i.e. he can't silence a spell unless he has silent spell feat).
Special note on the ignore spell failure - if the arcane casting class already has the ability to ignore arcane casting failure from armor, the Raumathari Battlemage gains a bonus 10% to his ignore spell failure percentage (i.e. 20% at 1st lvl, 25% at 3rd lvl, 30% at 7th lvl)
improved sublime sword - gain an additional +2 bonus on caster lvl checks to overcome spell resistance when using sublime sword.
Construct Secret - this concept, I'd like some input on. Essentially, give a variety of choices and let the character choose. My thoughts for secret choices are amongst the following
conservative construction - 25% cost reduction in crafting constructs (stacks with magical artisan)
superior reactions and construction - constructs created by battlemage enjoy +2 competence bonus to AC, saves, attack and melee damage and DR 5/bludgeoning
mystical superiority - constructs created by battlemage are immune to three spells chosen by battlemage. When encountering said spells, the construct actually converts the spell energy into healing (totally absorbing the effect if an area effect) equivalent to 2 hit points per spell level. In addition, the construct gains 1 casting of magic missile (at caster level equal to construct's hit die) per 2 spell levels thus absorbed that must be used within the next hour or be lost.
You could also maybe create a feat that requires the mystical superiority construct secret that allows the battlemage to construct living constructs and/or living spells.... I considered making those a secret as well, not sure about that though.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2013 : 15:15:19
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You know, I had a discussion with Eric Boyd awhile back concerning ruins. I had begun to to use (at least) three different icons for ruins - your 'dungeon' type ruins D&D is famous for, real-world type ruins (truly ancient, and not much there beyond some broken pottery), and the 'occupied ruin' (which should never be confused with 'occupied Wallstreet'... although the two are very similar).
The 'Occupied ruin' actually comes up a lot in D&D, and especially in FR. Its a fairly intact settlement that has been abandoned for some reason, and then 'something else' moved in (usually bandits or humanoids, but it could be anything).
Anyhow, I'd love to see them differentiate between them like I have on maps (perhaps I should have posted this in the other thread), but Eric Boyb made a good point - sometimes the nature of them overlaps. Quite often we have a complete (ancient) ruin above ground, and then some sort of extensive complex beneath. Also, 'occupied ruin' can describe nearly all of them - my idea was that it was another group of humans, demi-humans, or humanoids, but don't truly monstrous monsters count as well? Like a beholder, or dragon?
Another type is the 'cave complex', which is not the same as a mine - it would be a naturally ocurring cave complex. Normally, a 'ruin' symbol was used for this in the past, but more recently many fantasy cartographers have taken to using an 'X' to simply denote a "site of Interest". Its a bit generic for my tastes, but I suppose it works. There are simply too many different types of ruins, and too many minute gradations between them.
And lastly, I use a symbol for 'dragon lair', but what happens when a dragon lairs inside a ruin? Which symbol should be used? Ive had similar problems in cases where a major keep stands, and a settlement formed around it. If the keep is the more important part of the feature, should I then use the keep symbol instead of counting it as a settlement... even though most major fortifications do indeed have settlements spring-up around them?
Of course, now I've veered off-course from the topic of ruins... but I just wanted to point out, there are ruins, and there are ruins. Some ruins aren't very ruined at all. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Dec 2013 15:17:41 |
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe
Ireland
705 Posts |
Posted - 22 Dec 2013 : 17:29:24
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I like for "occupied" ruins to make sense. I hate the adventures where there is a mind flayer in one room and then a beholder in the next room without there being reason for it. I need to know how they are feeding themselves, how they can live in such close proximity to something else that they would not normally etc...
I also hate the "sealed for ages" type of dungeons that contain living creatures that should have died long ago. Now if there is some sort of explanation then I am fine with that, but when they are just dungeon filler it turns me off. |
“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien
*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*. |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2013 : 16:14:23
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| I can definitely see the warforged making sense in a Raumathari context. They're not clockworks: they're a vessel for primal life. And the warforged are more wood than metal as well. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36798 Posts |
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Ruins, ruins, and more ruins.
