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idilippy
Senior Scribe
USA
417 Posts |
 Posted - 10 Dec 2013 : 20:11:32
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| Ok, so no specifics still just the general "everyone is coming back" statement. I'll keep waiting and seeing then. Despite all the buzz and excitement I'm just kinda meh over the future of the Realms at this point, which is sad but I haven't been able to muster any excitement. I've been re-reading older Realms novels (Elaine Cunningham's work most recently, and the fantastic Sunlight and Shadows trilogy at this time), and while I'm getting nostalgia for what was I'm not getting excited for what is or will be. Maybe it's just me, I hope when 5e Realms comes out with gaming books I'll be wowed, but so far nothing. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 18:21:43
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The Realms have evolved. I've often told people that if they're looking for a specific feel to their Realms, they should stick to the period of time in which they enjoyed it the most. If that was the 90s, you're only going to disappoint yourself thinking all new writers and editors are go to recreate that for you.
As for the in-game timeline, nothing that came prior is going to be killed or have retroactive continuity. I'm not going to get into a debate over definitions. It's simply not going to happen. The primary reason for this is that there are a slew of new Realms fans from the 4e era. Due to the popularity of the Living Campaign that took place in the Realms, there are reams of newer (not younger) fans. There's really no reason to smash/kill what happened.
The outstanding news is that Ed appears to be right in the thick of things. This is always good. On the novel side, all of the authors are outstanding and true to the value of the Realms. Good times are ahead. Just be careful in managing your expectations. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 19:10:19
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| This is the source of the caution in my optimism. I'm not going to say anything else about it as there is just no point. Ed is the SOLE source of my optimism. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 19:56:57
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
The Realms have evolved.
They've changed, not evolved. Evolution implies change that promotes survival. The Sundering would not have happened if sales and opinions of the 4E Realms had been an evolution.
quote:
I've often told people that if they're looking for a specific feel to their Realms, they should stick to the period of time in which they enjoyed it the most. If that was the 90s, you're only going to disappoint yourself thinking all new writers and editors are go to recreate that for you.
Seems like they're working very hard to revert/change the tone and feel of the Realms back to what it was.
quote:
...there are a slew of new Realms fans from the 4e era. Due to the popularity of the Living Campaign that took place in the Realms, there are reams of newer (not younger) fans....
This is just a belief. Where are the numbers?
RPGA and Living Campaign/Encounters represents a small fraction of players, most of whom don't know anything about the world setting they've shown up for that week.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Mapolq
Senior Scribe
Brazil
466 Posts |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 21:18:42
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I just want new Realms lore and a kick butt 5E map. And six zillion Mike Schley city and dungeon maps if we're going wild. ;) I have faith that Ed and crew will weave the tapestry so it all works out. Specifics don't matter much to me honestly, because I'll use what I want and ignore what I don't need. I seriously hope Wizards finds a way, whether printing books or publishing digital (hopefully both), to give us consistent things to read, see, adventure in etc etc.
I want the Realms to move forward, warts and all. I think it's exciting and it's going to be fun. I doubt anything will compare to the memories of when I first read the old grey boxed set, but I'm OK with that, it's how nostalgia works.
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 21:22:19
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alot of fans wanted a reboot. I for one did and knew all to well that it was a bad idea and the easier way would just be to put the spell plague as a foot note and move on.
I'd like it to be in a way far more similar to the FR in the past not like it is in 4e. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
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http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4494 Posts |
Posted - 11 Dec 2013 : 21:37:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I just want new Realms lore and a kick butt 5E map. And six zillion Mike Schley city and dungeon maps if we're going wild. ;) I have faith that Ed and crew will weave the tapestry so it all works out. Specifics don't matter much to me honestly, because I'll use what I want and ignore what I don't need. I seriously hope Wizards finds a way, whether printing books or publishing digital (hopefully both), to give us consistent things to read, see, adventure in etc etc.
I want the Realms to move forward, warts and all. I think it's exciting and it's going to be fun. I doubt anything will compare to the memories of when I first read the old grey boxed set, but I'm OK with that, it's how nostalgia works.
Well said. FWIW I think a few maps (espically Cormyr) that were detailed in Dragon magazine for 4E were simply stunning and highly detailed. I think we can all agree that the map of Faerūn should be beautiful and vivid, somthing I think 4E's map was a bit lax on.
Further, a lot of fans don't want a reboot and I think it's a step in the right direction to continue the setting forward, putting the Spellplague into the past and moving on. I will always have Spellscars, Dragonborn, Returned Abeir, and floating Earth-Motes in MY Realms and no designer or novelist can take that away. I just wish the 4E Realms received the sort of detailed treatment in terms of story and depth that previous editions got. Had they receivd that much attention, I think there would have been a stronger fan-base for it. Sadly the "two book and adventure-then out" approach was just too limiting for detailing all the wonder of the Forgotten Realms.
I think we can all hope for a bright future with the next iteration of D&D coming out. |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 00:11:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
...I think a few maps (espically Cormyr) that were detailed in Dragon magazine for 4E were simply stunning and highly detailed. I think we can all agree that the map of Faerūn should be beautiful and vivid, somthing I think 4E's map was a bit lax on.
Further, a lot of fans don't want a reboot and I think it's a step in the right direction to continue the setting forward, putting the Spellplague into the past and moving on. I will always have Spellscars, Dragonborn, Returned Abeir, and floating Earth-Motes in MY Realms and no designer or novelist can take that away. I just wish the 4E Realms received the sort of detailed treatment in terms of story and depth that previous editions got. Had they receivd that much attention, I think there would have been a stronger fan-base for it. Sadly the "two book and adventure-then out" approach was just too limiting for detailing all the wonder of the Forgotten Realms.
After reading the first three Sundering novels, I'm willing at this point to give the "keep the Spellplague, advance the timeline, and revert the tone/feel back to what it was before."
But FWIW, I would -still- prefer a reboot to either OGB or 3E Realms. I just would, and given how many people I talked to at GenCon there's no way that I'm in the minority.
Honestly, I don't know if this Sundering stuff will work out well in the end for sales. I'm willing to give it a go, but there are so many 4E Realms elements that will likely persist that it may still not be palatable to a large enough fan base.
The one thing I think we all agree upon is that Mike Schley needs to do some fancy maps. His work is just amazing and it'll be a big plus if he does all the map artwork.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 12 Dec 2013 00:14:26 |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 01:03:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
They've changed, not evolved. Evolution implies change that promotes survival. The Sundering would not have happened if sales and opinions of the 4E Realms had been an evolution.
Actually no, evolution does not imply "change that promotes survival" it just implies change.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
But FWIW, I would -still- prefer a reboot to either OGB or 3E Realms. I just would, and given how many people I talked to at GenCon there's no way that I'm in the minority.
The only thing retconning the spellplague would do is alienate 4E fans and those of us that actually want the timeline's integrity to be respected. The moment they start pulling "Dallas" moves is when the Realms really go under.
Just because you (and the people that you apparently talked to) hate 4E doesn't mean that the setting doesn't have fans or that 4E didn't have some really great stuff in it. There are a lot of fantastic 4E novels and I don't want those to go away just to try to appeal to people that will never be satisfied with whatever WotC does.
Trying to bring the "old" pre-spellplague fans back is the same as chasing unicorns honestly. The vast majority of people that left won't be coming back even if you deleted everything spellplague related from existence(there's still people complaining about Cyric for crying out loud). |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 12 Dec 2013 01:08:36 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 01:26:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
Actually no, evolution does not imply "change that promotes survival" it just implies change.
Just change is mutation. Evolution means that the changes led to improved survival. So I'm right, again. As usual. 
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Trying to bring the "old" pre-spellplague fans back is the same as chasing unicorns honestly. The vast majority of people that left won't be coming back even if you deleted everything spellplague related from existence(there's still people complaining about Cyric for crying out loud).
Quack quack, you don't know that.
And Cyric blows. Never should've been added. So there.
I've never met a single 4E Realms fan in real life, not even at GenCon. So quite honestly, they're the elusive unicorns as far as I'm concerned. I know dozens of OGB fans personally who would jump at the chance to buy an updated OGB Realms with Schley maps and new material built from that era. YMMV and I'm not going to argue with you, but your sassy attitude is pointless. I will continue to speak my mind and that's that. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 01:40:47
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*rolls eyes*
Evolution doesn't mean that even in a biological sense. You actually have it backwards, survival is what can drive evolution, as a group of individuals surviving something is what can lead to evolution due to the loss of genes of the individuals that died. But of course there is also evolution that has absolutely nothing to do with survival and that comes from populations becoming separated due to migration or geological events. But in your rush to be snippy I guess you completely overlooked that.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Quack quack, you don't know that.
I guess I should have expected "argumentation" like this after seeing your abuse of the term evolution.
You pretending that 4E fans don't exist won't actually make it true. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 12 Dec 2013 01:42:57 |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 01:54:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Tanthalas
*rolls eyes*
Evolution doesn't mean that even in a biological sense. You actually have it backwards, survival is what can drive evolution, as a group of individuals surviving something is what can lead to evolution due to the loss of genes of the individuals that died. But of course there is also evolution that has absolutely nothing to do with survival and that comes from populations becoming separated due to migration or geological events. But in your rush to be snippy I guess you completely overlooked that.
You can roll your eyes all you like, but natural selection and survival are what's important for evolution. Mutations occur rather randomly, and survival of new characteristics over generations is the defining criteria.
This "mutation" or change for 4E has not survived even one generation. They are reverting to the prior tone and feel by removing the unpopular changes or significantly downsizing or downplaying them. That means the mutation did not survive so it in no way qualifies as evolution. This is the entire purpose of the Sundering, whether you like it or not. And it would not be happening if 4E Realms changes had been popular and well-liked.
quote:
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
Quack quack, you don't know that.
I guess I should have expected "argumentation" like this after seeing your abuse of the term evolution.
You pretending that 4E fans don't exist won't actually make it true.
I'm responding to you in this way because your argument has no backing to it whatsoever. Show me the numbers if you have them.
The fact is that 4E Realms was unpopular enough that we are getting the Sundering.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 01:57:39
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IIRC, I remember one of the lead designers of D&D mentioning that they were no longer trying to tell their customers what they wanted (opposed to asking their customers what they wanted). That is about as close to an apology for 4e (Realms and otherwise) that I really expect from them.
That said, I am definitely optimistic about the Sundering and what it means for the Realms. Ed steering is a major plus. I first began to get a sick feeling in my stomach for the 4e Realms when they announced it without Ed, and then only added him to the team after a large outcry (they said that they just hadn't gotten him to sign on yet; but considering how long in advance they new about the Spellplague, I still suspect they hadn't intended to add him if there hadn't been an outcry). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36991 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 04:41:00
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| Folks, we have a new edition coming... Can we finally stop arguing about the previous one? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 05:45:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Folks, we have a new edition coming... Can we finally stop arguing about the previous one?
Nope, you've got to listen to rabble-rousing for at least 9 more months, if not a year.
And when it does finally come out (assuming there are any actual fans of 4E Realms other than Diffan and a handful of unicorns*), then you get the immense joy of listening to people grouse about how X was better in 4E than 5E, in addition to those who still think OGB was better than 3E or vice-versa.
*DON'T ANYONE GET ALL OFFENDED. THIS IS A JOKE, JEEZ. I <3 Diffan, even if he has questionable taste**.
**ANOTHER JOKE, BTW. I <3 Diffan regardless of our differences.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4703 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 05:56:09
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| Wooly, I am still not happy about some things in 3rd. ;) |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 06:38:52
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| 5e is going to rock........( even more so if Bhaal kills him and Zehir..) |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 09:29:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
I've often told people that if they're looking for a specific feel to their Realms, they should stick to the period of time in which they enjoyed it the most. If that was the 90s, you're only going to disappoint yourself thinking all new writers and editors are go to recreate that for you.
I wish more people would get on board with this concept.
The constant, "If the 5E Realms aren't exactly as I want it, then I'm out," talk is inherently self-defeating. There are very, very few Realms products that are universally liked and no product is 100% useful to all gamers.
The bar is raised for a Campaign Setting book that serves as the opener/introduction to the setting for a whole new edition of the D&D game, of course, but even then the book shouldn't be expected to be perfect.
I have several copies of the Old Grey Box and have used quite a bit of material out of it in my Realms campaigns over the years, but I've never used everything out of those books, nor do I expect to.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
The primary reason for this is that there are a slew of new Realms fans from the 4e era. Due to the popularity of the Living Campaign that took place in the Realms, there are reams of newer (not younger) fans.
This is good to hear. And you bring up a good point.
I hope WotC are thinking hard about how to keep these people around and look at how much interest this group has in the novels that have been released concurrently with LFR adventures and later adventures.
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Just be careful in managing your expectations.
Wise words, these. Here's hoping that deaf ears are in short supply around here.  |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 12 Dec 2013 09:54:19 |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4494 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 14:14:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Folks, we have a new edition coming... Can we finally stop arguing about the previous one?
Nope, you've got to listen to rabble-rousing for at least 9 more months, if not a year.
This, sadly, I fear is the truth. Until we get a firm understanding on how the Realms plays out with the coming of the next iteration of D&D, it'll be pure speculation and conjecture from now til then. Espically from people who are coming back into the fold and have missed the past 5+ years or so.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
And when it does finally come out (assuming there are any actual fans of 4E Realms other than Diffan and a handful of unicorns*), then you get the immense joy of listening to people grouse about how X was better in 4E than 5E, in addition to those who still think OGB was better than 3E or vice-versa.
Heh, that would largely depend on how well 5E is written. Currently I'm enjoying both 4E and 5E but for different reasons. If they can bridge the gap between the two and make a game that caters to the pre-4E crowed while maintaining certain 4E elements, I think it could be a smash hit. Things, however, look grim from a poster's standpoint when one gazes over at other D&D-esque Forums (D&D:Next General Discussions being the prime suspect) but things are never as good or as bad as a public forum ever dictates.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
*DON'T ANYONE GET ALL OFFENDED. THIS IS A JOKE, JEEZ. I <3 Diffan, even if he has questionable taste**.
**ANOTHER JOKE, BTW. I <3 Diffan regardless of our differences.
Hehe, no offense taken. I've known for sometime now that my interest and enjoyment of the post-Spellplague Realms falls far into the minority here (though not so much over at RPG.net...strange...) and that's OK. The important thing is to take the lessons learned and move forward. 4E, IMO, did a LOT of things drastically when it could've been handled with far more subtlety and tact. The designers should've worked with the setting to incorporate new elements from the core D&D world (aka. connecting with FR's roots concerning Dragonborn, Tieflings, and Eladrin) rather than pushing it aside. The timejump was too severe and further cutting off author's desire to write in the pre-Spellplague era was also a poor decision. Certain things, however, I just completely agree with such as the Nuking of Mulhorand and Maztica (not so much Halruaa or Lantan, for which I have a great story that keeps both around in my Realms). Also, I like Earth-Motes and the upheaval that occured in the Sea of Fallen Stars plus the diminishment of Mystra's Chosen.
Something that I'm finding I like about the D&D: Next is the simplistic way a player can homebrew elements from other editions and graft them into the new edition. The way in which classes have sub-classes helps allow some customization within a class without sacrificing the core class concept. For example, you could take the Rogue class and add in a Harper Scout rogue's style, thus gaining certain Harper features while remaining a Rogue. I just homebrewed a Blood Knight path for the Fighter, giving him some vampiric features like gaining temp. HP, stealth features, and turning into bats/wolfs and yet he's still a decent Fighter and it remains relatively balanced with other classes.
I think the way in which Prestige Classes, Kits, and Paragon Paths worked in previous editions will be placed into these sub-classes. It initially changes the flavor and tone of your character without losing the core basic functions that you originally took the class to do.
Also, the math is a lot lower and for that, I'm really thankful. Both 3E and 4E had this sense that bigger numbers meant better or more fun. It's a design philosophy taken straight from video games like Diablo and Warcraft. Personally it doesn't matter to me that my attack roll is +9 or +49, so long as it's challenging for me to defeat my foes and I'd personally like to keep numbers smaller, from the teens to low-20's is my ideal range and that seems to be where their aiming.
EDIT: BTW I <3 Therise too |
Diffan's NPG Generator: FR NPC Generator
E6 Options: Epic 6 Campaign |
Edited by - Diffan on 12 Dec 2013 14:15:20 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 14:29:02
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LOL...
When I read Matt's post, I literally hear a drill-sergeant saying, "suck it up, Cupcake!"
If each of us took our initial love for the Realms in different directions, then could it be that settings have a 'shelf life' - that they can never be that thing we fell in love with ever again (simply because we fell in love with something that wasn't real - our perception of them).
In other words, its like the story of the blind men and elephant. we all experienced something magical, but something quite different as well. It pulled at our heart-strings for all different reasons. Will any of us like the elephant when its revealed? Only time will tell. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Dec 2013 15:32:47 |
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 15:07:40
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
On the novel side, all of the authors are outstanding and true to the value of the Realms. Good times are ahead. Just be careful in managing your expectations.
I know this probably won't get answered, but I nevertheless feel compelled to ask: could we know when there will be an announcement, or annoucements, about new post-Sundering novels by authors other than Salvatore? And by post-Sundering, I mean novels set anywhere in the timeline, not just after the Sundering chronologically. |
Edited by - Krafus on 12 Dec 2013 15:09:07 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 15:35:16
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And while we are at it, will there be novels set before The Sundering/Spellplague?
Before I learn to love new characters, I need to know what happened to the old ones.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 15:58:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
LOL...
When I read Matt's post, I literally hear a drill-sergeant saying, "suck it up, Cupcake!"
It was a bigger downer than a German Bedtime story.
The last thing prior fans need to be told is that they'll never enjoy the next edition of the Realms, so they'd better just go back and play with their old toys from 1982.
Especially when Ed, RAS, and the other authors clearly DO seem to "get it" when talking about the upcoming 5E Realms.
I much prefer, "Have a little faith, sunshine! The world is being reborn, anew." If I get the tone and feel of the old Realms back, I can easily contend with a random earthmote or two still flying around.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 16:12:26
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| Earthmotes are a cool idea. They should be in the Realms. Just not every quarter mile down the road is all. hehe |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1159 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 16:18:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
If I get the tone and feel of the old Realms back, I can easily contend with a random earthmote or two still flying around.
I should hope so since Ed originally came up with the idea for Earthmotes in his original Knights of Myth Drannor Campaign.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
And while we are at it, will there be novels set before The Sundering/Spellplague?
I'm very much interested in an answer to this as well. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 16:40:00
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quote:
Originally posted by hashimashadoo
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
If I get the tone and feel of the old Realms back, I can easily contend with a random earthmote or two still flying around.
I should hope so since Ed originally came up with the idea for Earthmotes in his original Knights of Myth Drannor Campaign.
Earthmotes are not bad ideas in and of themselves. But even the best idea in the world can be implemented in an excessive and overly dramatic way.
One earthmote, encountered in a unique adventure in some distant dangerous land, is unique and fun and exciting. There's something special and interesting about that. But as Eilserus noted, when there are tons of them all over the countryside, they tend to detract from everything else.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 16:57:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Hehe, no offense taken. I've known for sometime now that my interest and enjoyment of the post-Spellplague Realms falls far into the minority here (though not so much over at RPG.net...strange...) and that's OK. The important thing is to take the lessons learned and move forward. 4E, IMO, did a LOT of things drastically when it could've been handled with far more subtlety and tact. The designers should've worked with the setting to incorporate new elements from the core D&D world (aka. connecting with FR's roots concerning Dragonborn, Tieflings, and Eladrin) rather than pushing it aside. The timejump was too severe and further cutting off author's desire to write in the pre-Spellplague era was also a poor decision. Certain things, however, I just completely agree with such as the Nuking of Mulhorand and Maztica (not so much Halruaa or Lantan, for which I have a great story that keeps both around in my Realms). Also, I like Earth-Motes and the upheaval that occured in the Sea of Fallen Stars plus the diminishment of Mystra's Chosen.
Something that I'm finding I like about the D&D: Next is the simplistic way a player can homebrew elements from other editions and graft them into the new edition. The way in which classes have sub-classes helps allow some customization within a class without sacrificing the core class concept. For example, you could take the Rogue class and add in a Harper Scout rogue's style, thus gaining certain Harper features while remaining a Rogue. I just homebrewed a Blood Knight path for the Fighter, giving him some vampiric features like gaining temp. HP, stealth features, and turning into bats/wolfs and yet he's still a decent Fighter and it remains relatively balanced with other classes.
I think the way in which Prestige Classes, Kits, and Paragon Paths worked in previous editions will be placed into these sub-classes. It initially changes the flavor and tone of your character without losing the core basic functions that you originally took the class to do.
Also, the math is a lot lower and for that, I'm really thankful. Both 3E and 4E had this sense that bigger numbers meant better or more fun. It's a design philosophy taken straight from video games like Diablo and Warcraft. Personally it doesn't matter to me that my attack roll is +9 or +49, so long as it's challenging for me to defeat my foes and I'd personally like to keep numbers smaller, from the teens to low-20's is my ideal range and that seems to be where their aiming.
EDIT: BTW I <3 Therise too
Diffan is best unicorn <3
I think I would actually enjoy playing in your 4E Realms, because I think you "get" the underlying core feel of what the Realms should be regardless of edition-specific window dressing.
Thing is, I actually kinda liked the 4E rules set in a lot of ways and I didn't dislike all of the thematic elements introduced in 4E Realms... it was far more about the implementation.
And you may not be a minority for enjoying 4E Realms at all, so I think it is just as important for 4E fans to tell WotC what they liked (and didn't) just as much as any other fans. If we're going to get to a really good place in 5E/Next (or whatever they decide to call it), ALL of us with a true love for Realmsy things need to advocate for what we want to see. Sometimes I think people see me as someone who only wants things their way, but I really am an advocate for a Realms that has a tone and feel that works well for everyone.
Ultimately, at least as far as I'm concerned, it really isn't about the individual elements like earthmotes and spellscars, or Chosen and spellfire. It's far more about the overall tone of the Realms and the relationships that PCs have with NPCs. I honestly think that 5E/Next can steer the Realms back to a good place for most fans.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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Tanthalas
Senior Scribe
Portugal
508 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 18:48:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Therise
You can roll your eyes all you like, but natural selection and survival are what's important for evolution. Mutations occur rather randomly, and survival of new characteristics over generations is the defining criteria.
You completely ignore this part of my post: "But of course there is also evolution that has absolutely nothing to do with survival and that comes from populations becoming separated due to migration or geological events."
It is true that natural selection, in some cases (the part of my post that you completely ignored is not one of those cases), is important for evolution to remove parts of the genepool from the population, and obviously a species can only evolve if it survives. But your initial snippy comment about "change that promotes survival" is entirely inaccurate (its actually the basis for Lamarkism) since its survival that can drive evolution, not the evolution that promotes survival like you iniatially (and incorrectly) claimed.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
This "mutation" or change for 4E has not survived even one generation. They are reverting to the prior tone and feel by removing the unpopular changes or significantly downsizing or downplaying them. That means the mutation did not survive so it in no way qualifies as evolution. This is the entire purpose of the Sundering, whether you like it or not. And it would not be happening if 4E Realms changes had been popular and well-liked.
Problems with you argument:
- by this logic 2E and 3E aren't evolutions either since later editions came along.
- since they're not completely retconning 4E out of existence, and by your own admission, parts of 4E will still be present in 5E, it just means that the Realms evolved further.
quote:
Originally posted by Therise
I'm responding to you in this way because your argument has no backing to it whatsoever. Show me the numbers if you have them.
The fact is that 4E Realms was unpopular enough that we are getting the Sundering.
No, you're responding like this because you don't have a solid argument to present so you resort to being childish.
You don't have numbers either, so its ridiculous that I'm expected to produce them. Yes 4E was unpopular, that's not the same as 4E not having fans, or that most players want 4E to be retconned out of existence. |
Sir Markham pointed out, drinking another brandy. "A chap who can point at you and say 'die' has the distinct advantage". |
Edited by - Tanthalas on 12 Dec 2013 18:54:28 |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 19:24:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Krafus
quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
On the novel side, all of the authors are outstanding and true to the value of the Realms. Good times are ahead. Just be careful in managing your expectations.
I know this probably won't get answered, but I nevertheless feel compelled to ask: could we know when there will be an announcement, or annoucements, about new post-Sundering novels by authors other than Salvatore? And by post-Sundering, I mean novels set anywhere in the timeline, not just after the Sundering chronologically.
Erin M. Evans said that some of the novels for their characters will be coming out and still be during the time of the Sundering. Her next novel with Farideh and friends comes out Sept 2014 and is called "Fire in the Blood". They will finally make it to Cormyr.
I believe Kemp has an approved outline for another Cale novel (Vasen/Cale is how it was phrased). |
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Topic |
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Is "the Sundering" an admission to screwing up?
