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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe
USA
163 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 15:58:34
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Have any of you read the Companions yet? What do you think about it, I am soon the finish the Last Threshold?
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“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden” |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 16:04:37
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| read it and it was much happier feeling to read it. It is a good read even a really potent arcane spellcaster shows up............ not telling which one as its a suprise |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 16:50:46
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| I liked it much more then the Neverwinter saga. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Tarlyn
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 17:10:03
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| The companions was fantastic from start to finish. I haven't read a realms book that good in a long time. Also, it sets up several interesting story lines. |
Tarlyn Embersun |
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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 18:21:53
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My favorite book was passage to dawn!
I Think I'll get the audiobook of the companions, it makes it so much more engaging I believe |
“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden” |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 21:06:30
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| I got about eighty pages in before putting it down with no will to continue. I've been planning on dropping it off at Half-priced books the next time I go, but I haven't made my way there in a little while. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
769 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 22:15:38
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quote:
Originally posted by khanio07
My favorite book was passage to dawn!
I Think I'll get the audiobook of the companions, it makes it so much more engaging I believe
I've been an audiobook freak since I started having to ride the bus to work every day. But for some reason I haven't taken the plunge with the Realms novels yet.
Have you listened to any of the other Realms audiobooks? I'm curious how the voice acting is? |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2013 : 22:53:06
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| One of the best RAS reads ever, IMO. Sorry you didn't enjoy it Asmo though I can see why someone would have a problem with it. I myself have gotten a bit spoiled on more complex writers like Stephen R. Donaldson and George R.R. Martin. After reading such authors, mass-produced setting authors seem a bit simplistic. Still, I haven't been so happy to read a Realms novel in a long time. The Companions really delivered the 'feel' of the Realms from my first plunge into the setting back in the early 90s. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 07:23:56
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| that is one of the things the 4e guys did wrong, its more than the locals of Toril that make the FR the FR, its the characters too. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 09:32:55
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I think my biggest problem with it, more than any particular flaw in the writing- although I have to say I found dialogue in certain chapters, specifically from a certain red head, to be particularly stilted- is that the whole book is just one giant step backwards.
While the individual quality of RAS's last few books has varied wildly, I did like the over all message they were sending. That the world changes and there's nothing you can do about it. That the people you love die, and you have to move on; more than that, you can move on. I felt that these were powerful themes.
Then The Companions comes along and throws all that out the window. Drizzt isn't going to have to grow up, deal with any actual issues, or learn to move on with his life. A goddess is going to give him favor for no particular reason other than that the readers like him, bring all his friends back to life, and everything's going to be just the way it was.
There was a particular bit in Baby-Bruenor's chapters, where the dwarves talk about how horrible the nation of Many-Arrows is and Bruenor contemplates what a huge mistake it was to make peace with them; combined with the preview for one of Bob's upcoming books, Rise of the King, it seems particularly obvious that he's backtracking on that particular development and plans on wiping Many-Arrows off the map.
So, the message that peace and diplomacy can work and that beings shouldn't be judged on their race because, given the chance, even orcs can make a productive society is being completely thrown out the window for simplistic, good verse evil race wars. Good times, good times.
So yea, didn't care for what I read of it. Maybe it got better later on, I don't know. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 10:51:12
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I get your point completely. It's true Drizzt's story was more 'real' after losing his friends...it allows we mere mortals to connect with him better and gives his character more depth. Also, I would have been fine with stories written during their lifetimes moreso than bringing them all back to life (that is grade A factory cheeeese) but, as you said, the fans want more of them. I can't blame this on RAS though, Wizbro pulled the plug on several of his most popular characters with the timejump and this is part of the fallout from that.
As to the Kingdom of Many-Arrows...I don't want to see it destroyed either. It makes perfect sense to me that it would take more than a century for the orcs to become more diplomatic in their dealings. We can't have that expectation from human nations in the real world...we certainly can't expect it to happen over night with the orc's warrior culture. So, I agree whole heartedly with you on that score. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Cards77
Senior Scribe
USA
755 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 14:08:31
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| I started reading it too, but then my brain couldn't handle what was going on so i went back to my old Gord the Rogue books |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 18:47:55
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Well, Bob had a choice; he could either choose to bite the bullet and live with the time skip, or he could do what he did and bide his time until he could pull something out of his [expletive deleted] and undo what Wizbro made him do.
Now, as a writer myself, I can certainly sympathize with not liking being told what to do, but then Bob goes and makes some pretty great lemonade with the lemons that he got handed. Bruenor and Wulfgar's deaths were the perfect culmination of their lives. Cat's death was heartbreaking tragedy. Regies got the short end of the stick, true, but aside from that, he wrapped up their stories as best as could be expected; better, really.
And then he goes and undoes all of that. So yea, mission accomplished, Bob; you outlasted the developers and got what you wanted, but in doing so you ruined what good you did in the mean time.
I'm reminded of Marvel Comics, the One More Day storyline, where in order to undo developments that the editor didn't like(i.e., Peter Parker getting married and revealing his secret identity to the public), they came up with a nonsensical, overly complicated, out of character story that trampled on the previous decade and a half of character development, as opposed to writing a story that actually tackled serious issues such as divorce.
So, yea. Far as I'm concerned, The Companions is the One More Day of the Realms. Least there were no deals with the devil involved; Bob can't write devils well to save his life. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 19:29:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
I'm reminded of Marvel Comics, the One More Day storyline, where in order to undo developments that the editor didn't like(i.e., Peter Parker getting married and revealing his secret identity to the public), they came up with a nonsensical, overly complicated, out of character story that trampled on the previous decade and a half of character development, as opposed to writing a story that actually tackled serious issues such as divorce.
Personally I think making a deal with the devil is far worse then divorce... especially when you spend 2 years teasing they'll undo or start to work toward undoing some of it to just bail out entirely.
BTW, I hate "Superior Spider-Man." |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Berkthgar
Learned Scribe
USA
163 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2013 : 19:55:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Caolin
quote:
Originally posted by khanio07
My favorite book was passage to dawn!
I Think I'll get the audiobook of the companions, it makes it so much more engaging I believe
I've been an audiobook freak since I started having to ride the bus to work every day. But for some reason I haven't taken the plunge with the Realms novels yet.
Have you listened to any of the other Realms audiobooks? I'm curious how the voice acting is?
I have listened to all the drizzt books via audiobook. I dont who or what source they came from, my older gave them to me.
BUt let me tell you, listening the hours on end to those audiobooks were the best times of my life. It was just beautiful. it was a mans voice for everything except the icewind dale trilogy.. i love drizzt and his companions |
“Change is not always growth, but growth is often rooted in change.
Drizzt Do'Urden” |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 02:47:54
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| It was better than the last several Drizzt books |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 03:19:04
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quote:
Originally posted by khanio07
Have any of you read the Companions yet? What do you think about it, I am soon the finish the Last Threshold?
Personally, although I enjoyed the whole Neverwinter series, it was kinda bumming me out by the end of it.
I absolutely LOVED The Companions because it felt hopeful, had good nostalgic moments, and brought character advancement to every one of Drizzt's companions. It felt noble and heroic and wonderful again, like the old Realms novels. 
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 06:42:40
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| glad Im not the only one who felt bummed by the end of neverwinter..... glad I sold them back |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 14:54:05
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Therise, I think you nailed it on the head. It was full of hope and felt like the way the Realms once did, and will again (according to Bob's interviews about wiping the slate clean and getting back to a state of freshness).
I found it very engaging and appreciated the statement of hope to kick of The Sundering. As well as the struggle of our long time friends dealing with their new situations. Having all the knowldge but not the body/status, not an easy thing, and Bob made that very clear.
The Neverwinter saga was dark, but so was the world. They were hard books to read because of that lack of hope. I still liked them and will read them again because they fit the time and environs of the Realms at that point. But, I missed the idealism of past Drizzt novels. Don't get me wrong, I love anti-heros as well, and some not so heroic figures, but I also like my heros to be heros and symbols of hope and ideals that can be difficult to strive towards. :)
It's a good read. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1632 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 16:31:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus
Well, Bob had a choice; he could either choose to bite the bullet and live with the time skip, or he could do what he did and bide his time until he could pull something out of his [expletive deleted] and undo what Wizbro made him do.
Now, as a writer myself, I can certainly sympathize with not liking being told what to do, but then Bob goes and makes some pretty great lemonade with the lemons that he got handed. Bruenor and Wulfgar's deaths were the perfect culmination of their lives. Cat's death was heartbreaking tragedy. Regies got the short end of the stick, true, but aside from that, he wrapped up their stories as best as could be expected; better, really.
And then he goes and undoes all of that. So yea, mission accomplished, Bob; you outlasted the developers and got what you wanted, but in doing so you ruined what good you did in the mean time.
I'm reminded of Marvel Comics, the One More Day storyline, where in order to undo developments that the editor didn't like(i.e., Peter Parker getting married and revealing his secret identity to the public), they came up with a nonsensical, overly complicated, out of character story that trampled on the previous decade and a half of character development, as opposed to writing a story that actually tackled serious issues such as divorce.
So, yea. Far as I'm concerned, The Companions is the One More Day of the Realms. Least there were no deals with the devil involved; Bob can't write devils well to save his life.
None of those death are undone. This isn't a resurrection spell.
Those characters are all died.
These are all new characters who happen to retain the memories of thier past life, but they not really those characters any more then Ezri Dax is Jadzia Dax or Jadzia Dax is Curzon Dax.
Each of these Character's have an interesting conflict between thier past memories and the current lives and families, obligations from the past, aka Drizzt conflict with the lives they have built for themselves.
Catty going to find Drizzt is the equavilant of Jadzia going with Kor, Koloth, and Kang to kill the Albino based on a promise Curzon made to those three. But Jadzia Dax is still a different person compared to Curzon, I doubt Curzon would have married Worf, oh course I can't be certain of that. |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 12 Dec 2013 : 23:55:14
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Ok, a web search informed me that those characters are from Star Trek, but beyond that I know absolutely nothing about any of them.
That being said, you and I are going to agree to disagree on the "new characters" thing. Far as I can tell, the changes are just skin deep. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 00:08:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
None of those death are undone.
But their meaning is undone. For Bruenor and Wulfgar these death were indeed the epic finals of epic lines. Two crowning moments of awesome that surpassed two almost unsurpassable lives. A more fitting end could have hardly been possible.
Now these two epic events are just some fillers in the middle, with a new rest of the show after them that can't really surpass these deathscenes even if Bruenor singlehandly destroyed the kingdom of Many Arrows and throttles the latest Obould barehanded
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Krafus
Learned Scribe
246 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 00:58:41
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| [/i]The Companions[/i] is one of the best Salvatore novels. Like other readers, at first I was bummed that Drizzt's old friends were coming back. Couldn't he move on and find new companions? But to Salvatore's credit, he made the old companions come back as different characters to a degree or another, especially Regis, who greatly changed in both personality and abilities. And I have some rather ominous suspicions about Wulfgar... |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 04:06:49
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| Gyor, I see the parallel you're drawing between the Companions and the Dax symbiont, but there is a distinct difference. Dax is passed from one host to another...all of which have completely different genetic material. The Companions, while they SHOULD have wholly new genetic material having been birthed by different parents, clearly do not because they look exactly as they did in their youth. So much, in fact, that Drizzt recognized all them, even Bruenor (whom he never knew as a youth). I think it's safe to say that the miracle performed by Mielikki actually bypasses the parallel to Curzon/Jadzia/Ezri Dax. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 04:14:06
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| Oh also, I don't really agree that their deaths or the meaning of their deaths were undone. They still lived significant lives and died heroically...nothing will change that. Can they out-do their previous lives? Possibly. Will they? Also possible. It all depends on what RAS & Wizbro has in store for the Companions. I agree it will be a tall order, and maybe it wont be possible (or even warranted). RAS, in the (many) years to come...may decide that they will all die peacefully after making the North a much safer place. And that, IMHO, is what THE COMPANIONS themselves would consider a life well-lived...and they will have earned a life of peace in their waning years. Just two coppers for you guys to rub together. Cheers. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 04:21:07
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I thought it was well-written, but I don't really care for the old companions pulling a Bobby Ewing & coming back from the dead. Of course this is a fantasy genre, but in previous books Drizzt having to cope with losing his friends made the character more believable and likeable.
In future installments, can we assume that none of the companions are going to get bumped-off again? If there is a sense that a character (especially one with whom we empathize) may buy the farm at any time, then the story becomes more engaging (see: Game of Thrones). If there is no such sense, then the story becomes a lot less interesting.
I would have preferred to see what happens between Drizzt, Dahlia, Entreri & co. If anyone was going to get resurrected, I wish it would have been Innovindil....... |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 04:35:17
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If anyone was going to get resurrected, I wish it would have been Innovindil.......
Now THAT is something I can agree with. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Therise
Master of Realmslore
1272 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 05:04:54
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I'm gonna side with Gyor on this. If you read The Companions really carefully, Mielikki did not put them into exact (but younger) body copies of their old selves. All of them look quite different, and Regis in particular is perhaps the most genetically different - now being part genasi. I think it's safe to say that there are certain aspects of them that allow them to recognize each other, but even then it was very clear that these people are all reincarnated and not simply "raised" from the dead... meaning, they -are- the genetic children of their new parents.
And they each clearly have new lives, new origin families, and "growing up" histories that are entirely different than their former lives. They died, and their spirits were reborn into new families. They weren't just "popped" into the uteruses (uteri?) of new surrogate mothers. Their new parents ARE their parents in this new life. They just have intact memories of their prior lives, thanks to Mielikki.
That is quite a lot like the Dax (Star Trek DS9) analogy in some respects. I get what Gyor was trying to say there. Their prior lives and attachments - except for their associations with each other - are fully dead, gone, and in the past. They're like Devas, really, except that their former-life memories aren't faulty.
To me, this really doesn't qualify as a "Bobby Ewing" or a reboot, where their deaths had no meaning and they're all just simply "Raised" from the dead. No, this is something completely different that we've not seen before in the Realms, unless you consider the Reincarnation of the elf Fflar in Baker's books. The companions have been given new lives, their old ones are over... well, except for Drizzt. He's the same old big sensitive lug we all still love.
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Female, 40-year DM of a homebrew-evolved 1E Realms, including a few added tidbits of 2E and 3E lore; played originally in AD&D, then in Rolemaster. Be a DM for your kids and grandkids, gaming is excellent for families! |
Edited by - Therise on 13 Dec 2013 05:06:51 |
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BenN
Senior Scribe
Japan
382 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 05:20:07
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@Therise -
As you mentioned, their associations with each other have not changed - and its these relationships which are (or have been) the core of RAS's novels. While their physical forms have been reincarnated if you like, their relationships will (presumably) carry on where they left off. |
Edited by - BenN on 13 Dec 2013 05:21:06 |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1885 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 06:11:05
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| *Facepalm* I forgot about Regis being (half) genasi so you are correct. I guess Mielikki's influence caused them to look very similar (if not almost identical) to their former lives. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Madpig
Learned Scribe
Finland
148 Posts |
Posted - 13 Dec 2013 : 07:03:23
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quote:
Originally posted by BenN
@Therise -
As you mentioned, their associations with each other have not changed - and its these relationships which are (or have been) the core of RAS's novels. While their physical forms have been reincarnated if you like, their relationships will (presumably) carry on where they left off.
While I think is partially true, I think one of the more important factors has changed. Bruenor is no longer part of Battlehammer bloodline.
Also interesting thing is how Wulffie got Aegis Fang back. I mean it should be most prized possession of Icewind tribes. But I think he could have anounced who he really was. Or he could have born to he's own decendants. That would be really interesting scenario. |
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THe Companions
