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Originally posted by Madpig
Also interesting thing is how Wulffie got Aegis Fang back. I mean it should be most prized possession of Icewind tribes. But I think he could have anounced who he really was. Or he could have born to he's own decendants. That would be really interesting scenario.

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Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus

From a literary perspective, the reincarnated companions being the genetic children of their new parents means exactly diddly. They're the same characters. They've got new looks, some new abilities, and some new experiences, but fundamentally, they're the same people they were before, just with some character development, and not particularly organic character development, at that.

They've met some new people and have had some new experiences from growing up all over again; Drizzt met new people and had new experiences that affected his personality and outlook on the world without having to die and spin the wheel of reincarnation.

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus

From a literary perspective, the reincarnated companions being the genetic children of their new parents means exactly diddly. They're the same characters. They've got new looks, some new abilities, and some new experiences, but fundamentally, they're the same people they were before, just with some character development, and not particularly organic character development, at that.

They've met some new people and have had some new experiences from growing up all over again; Drizzt met new people and had new experiences that affected his personality and outlook on the world without having to die and spin the wheel of reincarnation.

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You may choose to believe this, but make no mistake: it's a belief, and it's not necessarily shared by others.

If I died, and several decades later a goddess decided to reincarnate my soul into a new body, this would have an enormous impact on who I am as a person. It would change my perspective on the afterlife, the nature of spirits and souls, and fundamentally cause me to re-order my entire approach to life and its meaning. Additionally, I would begin a new life with new parents, grow up in a new era and family, and perhaps even a different culture. All of this would involve decades-worth of learning and adjusting, changing who I am and pushing me to grow in some rather unexpected ways. I would want to hold on to meaningful memories and relationships from my past life, but I'd also have an entirely new world and life to deal with as well.

To say that "in a literary sense, they're exactly the same characters" not only ignores ALL of that, it's being intentionally dismissive. Each of the companions have been slowly questioning almost everything about existence and life itself. They also must contend with quite literally having a new life and everything that comes with it: new parents, new friends, new social situations, and in some cases, entirely new enemies and responsibilities. Wulfgar, remember, lived out his life with a new family, wife, children, decades of a fulfilling and meaningful life, plus he was reborn into a new family and all that entailed. Catti-brie was literally held and trained by a goddess, then became an entirely new person. Regis, he has become what he couldn't ever have become in his old life/body, and he has a host of new friends and enemies from this new life. Bruenor has questioned his culture, life's meaning, and even his gods.

This all means nothing to you in terms of character growth? You can dismissively handwave all of that away as if it's meaningless, but that's being rather petulant, IMO. This is no simple "raise dead" spell following a fight that went south.

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Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus

From a literary perspective, the reincarnated companions being the genetic children of their new parents means exactly diddly. They're the same characters. They've got new looks, some new abilities, and some new experiences, but fundamentally, they're the same people they were before, just with some character development, and not particularly organic character development, at that.

They've met some new people and have had some new experiences from growing up all over again; Drizzt met new people and had new experiences that affected his personality and outlook on the world without having to die and spin the wheel of reincarnation.

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You may choose to believe this, but make no mistake: it's a belief, and it's not necessarily shared by others.

If I died, and several decades later a goddess decided to reincarnate my soul into a new body, this would have an enormous impact on who I am as a person. It would change my perspective on the afterlife, the nature of spirits and souls, and fundamentally cause me to re-order my entire approach to life and its meaning. Additionally, I would begin a new life with new parents, grow up in a new era and family, and perhaps even a different culture. All of this would involve decades-worth of learning and adjusting, changing who I am and pushing me to grow in some rather unexpected ways. I would want to hold on to meaningful memories and relationships from my past life, but I'd also have an entirely new world and life to deal with as well.

To say that "in a literary sense, they're exactly the same characters" not only ignores ALL of that, it's being intentionally dismissive. Each of the companions have been slowly questioning almost everything about existence and life itself. They also must contend with quite literally having a new life and everything that comes with it: new parents, new friends, new social situations, and in some cases, entirely new enemies and responsibilities. Wulfgar, remember, lived out his life with a new family, wife, children, decades of a fulfilling and meaningful life, plus he was reborn into a new family and all that entailed. Catti-brie was literally held and trained by a goddess, then became an entirely new person. Regis, he has become what he couldn't ever have become in his old life/body, and he has a host of new friends and enemies from this new life. Bruenor has questioned his culture, life's meaning, and even his gods.

This all means nothing to you in terms of character growth? You can dismissively handwave all of that away as if it's meaningless, but that's being rather petulant, IMO. This is no simple "raise dead" spell following a fight that went south.

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I'm not denying that it's character growth. I'm denying that it's natural and organic character growth. I'm denying that they are new characters; they're the same characters with new development- development that was unnecessary to start with.

And it's not "decades later", at least not from their perspective. For Cat and Regeis, it's been a few weeks. For Wulfgar, a couple days. For Breunor, less than an hour. During which time it's clearly explained to them that their views on the afterlife are completely accurate, that this is a special case, and that once they're going to be the same people, same memories.

I concede that they're going through new experiences, and that they'll be affected- perhaps profoundly- by those experiences. But that doesn't make them new characters, any more than the experiences Drizzt has had since their deaths have made him a new character.

My overall point is that their coming back, in whatever form by whatever method, undermines what I considered to be a very important message from the last few books. A message that had been built up for years prior; Drizzt is going to outlive his loved ones. That is just one of the realities he's going to have to face as an elf. That's something that can resonate with readers who have lost loved ones; that they move on, go on living without these people.

Now the message is that a goddess is going to bring back Drizzt's best friends and true love after they die as a personal favor for him for having done absolutely nothing to deserve it beyond being popular with the fans.

And you're right, not everyone's going to agree. Everyone's entitled to their own opinion.

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Originally posted by Therise

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Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus

From a literary perspective, the reincarnated companions being the genetic children of their new parents means exactly diddly. They're the same characters. They've got new looks, some new abilities, and some new experiences, but fundamentally, they're the same people they were before, just with some character development, and not particularly organic character development, at that.

They've met some new people and have had some new experiences from growing up all over again; Drizzt met new people and had new experiences that affected his personality and outlook on the world without having to die and spin the wheel of reincarnation.

---

You may choose to believe this, but make no mistake: it's a belief, and it's not necessarily shared by others.

If I died, and several decades later a goddess decided to reincarnate my soul into a new body, this would have an enormous impact on who I am as a person. It would change my perspective on the afterlife, the nature of spirits and souls, and fundamentally cause me to re-order my entire approach to life and its meaning. Additionally, I would begin a new life with new parents, grow up in a new era and family, and perhaps even a different culture. All of this would involve decades-worth of learning and adjusting, changing who I am and pushing me to grow in some rather unexpected ways. I would want to hold on to meaningful memories and relationships from my past life, but I'd also have an entirely new world and life to deal with as well.

To say that "in a literary sense, they're exactly the same characters" not only ignores ALL of that, it's being intentionally dismissive. Each of the companions have been slowly questioning almost everything about existence and life itself. They also must contend with quite literally having a new life and everything that comes with it: new parents, new friends, new social situations, and in some cases, entirely new enemies and responsibilities. Wulfgar, remember, lived out his life with a new family, wife, children, decades of a fulfilling and meaningful life, plus he was reborn into a new family and all that entailed. Catti-brie was literally held and trained by a goddess, then became an entirely new person. Regis, he has become what he couldn't ever have become in his old life/body, and he has a host of new friends and enemies from this new life. Bruenor has questioned his culture, life's meaning, and even his gods.

This all means nothing to you in terms of character growth? You can dismissively handwave all of that away as if it's meaningless, but that's being rather petulant, IMO. This is no simple "raise dead" spell following a fight that went south.

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Originally posted by jordanz


He'll still outlive them ...with the possible exception of Bruenor. Them being back is a dream come true for me.

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Originally posted by Chosen of Asmodeus



The informed assumption that he'll outlive them is one thing. The reality of it actually happening is another thing entirely.

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I have other problems with this, as well. Among the characteristics I liked about Bruenor and Regeis was that Bruenor was old and past his prime, and that Regeis was out of shape and had to rely on his charm and wit more than any physical ability. I liked that Catti-brie got crippled, that she and Wulfgar actually aged. Now they're all back to the prime of their lives, except Bruenor who hasn't even hit his prime yet. It takes away from some of their charm, in my opinion.

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Another thing I don't like is the set up for the next book with Bruenor dealing with Many-Arrows. Now, regardless of how RAS handles this, whether he's going to surprise me or go down the road I dread he will, this wasn't Breunor's battle to fight.

One of the things that made Bruenor's decision to make peace with Obould in The Orc King so powerful was the uncertainty of it. He didn't know if he was doing the right thing or not, and in all likelihood, he wasn't(and didn't) live to see the outcome. The fallout from this, for good or ill, should have been something for Bruenor's successors to deal with. It should have been a challenge for future kings to rise to.

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So I also don't like one of the wider implications of this; that the return of the companions is going to hold back future generations from achieving things on their own.

Of course, I could be way off base with that one, it's just speculation on my part. But it's a fear I have, never the less.

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Drizzt has survived this long ....

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Post SpellPlague Bruenor was old but 100 years prior (during most of their adventures) he was in the prime of life. Regis was ineffective in combat....[/quote

No, Bruenor was passed his prime from his very first appearance. He wasn't old yet, he was middle aged, but he wasn't in his prime.

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I did not like seeing Wulgar, Artemis, and Bruenor aging, I'd rather they go down fighting in their prime. Same goes for Drizzt....

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Eh, that was never going to happen. The only reason it almost did with Wulfgar is because RAS had simply run out of ideas for what to do with him.

So, them growing old, I liked it. It humanized them, to me. Put some dents in their armor.

[quote]I dont think the companions returning to glory has any impact on whatever new heroes pop up, the realms is large enough for them all IMO.

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Originally posted by khanio07

Just finished reading the companions. What is next? Meaning, when does RAS plan to release the next book in the series[...?]

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Originally posted by jordanz
He'll still outlive them ...with the possible exception of Bruenor. Them being back is a dream come true for me.

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