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Demzer
Senior Scribe
879 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 11:38:43
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If you are not up to date (well, to the end of 3e so up to 5 years ago roughly) about the doings of Halaster Blackcloak and Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun, some of the followin is spoiler material so, stop right there!
Have you stopped yet? Well let's just say that this last Forging the Realms column just lighted up the all consuming hunger for more knowledge and lore that characterized the best moments of my discovery of the Realms.
Why do i say that? Have you stopped? Well last chance to stop, meanwhile let me say that .... oh s**t its the COVENANT!!! YES! GIMME MORE OF THE COVENANT!! PLEASE!!!
Ahem ... let's articulate that a bit better: in this column alone, He of the Greenwood casually throws around references to:
- "Ioulaum and his ilk", they may very well still be around and pursuing their own agendas steering the Realms (as of 1400 something) judging by Elminster's comment on the War Wizard's theory;
- "one or more of these hidden "mighty mortals" is behind the long passage of years between large and devastating orc hordes sweeping down out of the North" ... the one and only COVENANT!!!!!eleven!!1!!
- As of the writing of this article, both Khelben and Halaster are "presumed dead" ... and we all know what that can mean.
Other Forging columns were interesting but this one has me craving for more and cursing silently for all this teasing.
Anyway, apologies if this seems only useless spam on this forums but i had to get the joy out and share the feeling with someone.
Note: link to the article here http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?whichpage=7&TOPIC_ID=16941#435947
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 12:58:12
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I figured as much for Halaster, but Khelben is presumed dead? Now THAT is interesting indeed. 
I had not expected to ever see The Blackcloak again.... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 13:57:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I figured as much for Halaster, but Khelben is presumed dead? Now THAT is interesting indeed.
I had not expected to ever see The Blackcloak again....
Wasn't someone collecting Halaster's soul shards? Maybe that will be his way back. I'd imagine we haven't heard the last from Khelben either. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 14:04:29
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I can see Larloch collecting bits of Halaster - I happen to think Halaster was a precursor to Larloch (his Imaskari equivalent).
Not that they were friends or anything; in fact, Larloch probably found Halster infuriating (because Halaster may have been one of the very few beings in the universe who dd not worry about Larloch... at all).
Why would he collect such things then? Its simple, really - keeping tabs on Halaster became Larloch's 'life work'.. almost an obsession, really. His life has lost meaning since Halaster disappeared.
Or it could be as simple as a, "Nobody kills that bastard but me" kind of thing.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Oct 2013 14:05:51 |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 14:07:10
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| I would love to see some lore on Ioulaum |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1155 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 14:55:34
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| What do you really NEED to know about him that isn't already in Lost Empires of Faerun? |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 14:58:01
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| What strange question is that? What do you really need to know about anyone or anything in the realms? Do we even need the realms? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 15:05:34
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Several furtive, robed figures enter the chamber, staring at each other with paranoia, some with outright disdain or hatred...
The personage at the head of the table speaks...
"some of you know me as Hilather, others under other names, I thank you all for coming."
Ioulaum: "What is the meaning of this, Jeriah, and why have you faked your own death?"
Halaster: "All in good time. I'd like you all to meet someone - someone you've also all known under many other names - The Terraseer".
{Another figure steps out from behind a tapestry that none had noted there before. Several eyebrows raise, Larloch leans forward...}
Arthindol: "I, too, would like to thank you all for answering my summons." {several personages bristle} As a show of good faith, I would like to show you all my true form at this time." Here he drops his human guise and a powerful, reptilian creature now stands before them.
Tan Chin: "What manner of trickery is this? No-one can disguise themselves from my true-seeing..."
Ioulaum: "Or from the illusion-cancelling effects of my mythallar."
Arthindol: 'Tis no illusion - I change my true form at will, without the use of magic. It is within my... nature... to do so."
A dark elf joins the conversation: "why bring us all here in this manner? I have no time for games!"
Arthindol: {turning to the elf} Games? This is NO game. I have invited you all here to join an ancient brotherhood of like-minded individuals called the Ba'etith. We do not except 'the will of the gods' - we steer the fate of our world ourselves."
End interlude......
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 16:35:05
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Shortly before Khelben died he said his soul needed rest...I've always interpreted that as a 'way back' for Khelben, something the author did 'just in case' it was deemed desirable. Rest implies a temporary state (of death) IMO. And...I want Khelben back...he is my favorite Chosen.
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I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 17:10:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Several furtive, robed figures enter the chamber, staring at each other with paranoia, some with outright disdain or hatred...
The personage at the head of the table speaks...
"some of you know me as Hilather, others under other names, I thank you all for coming."
Ioulaum: "What is the meaning of this, Jeriah, and why have you faked your own death?"
Halaster: "All in good time. I'd like you all to meet someone - someone you've also all known under many other names - The Terraseer".
{Another figure steps out from behind a tapestry that none had noted there before. Several eyebrows raise, Larloch leans forward...}
Arthindol: "I, too, would like to thank you all for answering my summons." {several personages bristle} As a show of good faith, I would like to show you all my true form at this time." Here he drops his human guise and a powerful, reptilian creature now stands before them.
Tan Chin: "What manner of trickery is this? No-one can disguise themselves from my true-seeing..."
Ioulaum: "Or from the illusion-cancelling effects of my mythallar."
Arthindol: 'Tis no illusion - I change my true form at will, without the use of magic. It is within my... nature... to do so."
A dark elf joins the conversation: "why bring us all here in this manner? I have no time for games!"
Arthindol: {turning to the elf} Games? This is NO game. I have invited you all here to join an ancient brotherhood of like-minded individuals called the Ba'etith. We do not except 'the will of the gods' - we steer the fate of our world ourselves."
End interlude......
hehe very nice  |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 18:02:06
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| I find it amusing to see the way they are bringing back old characters that they shouldn't have killed off anyway. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 19:14:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
I find it amusing to see the way they are bringing back old characters that they shouldn't have killed off anyway.
We don't know that anyone is coming back. Just that in the Realms, some don't think the characters are really dead -- or that they won't come back. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 21:03:59
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| Ioluam isnt dead, he's um undead.... and I'd love to know about the hero of ancient Netheril back when Netheril was good for something. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
879 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2013 : 21:27:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
Wasn't someone collecting Halaster's soul shards? Maybe that will be his way back. I'd imagine we haven't heard the last from Khelben either.
Here you go, from Mr. B. R. James (2nd post):
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=18303
That same post explains why its kind of an "unofficial" piece of Realmslore, or something like that. |
Edited by - Demzer on 29 Oct 2013 21:29:17 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 02:38:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
... but Khelben is presumed dead? Now THAT is interesting indeed.
Do remember that there was some intent toward keeping the news of Khelben's death a secret. So his presumed death could be a reflection of that.
Remember, too, that Tsarra had assumed the guise of the Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun. This means that right after the events of Blackstaff, she was a Lord of Waterdeep, head of the Moonstars and mage teacher at Blackstaff Tower. We really don't know how or when this changed, exactly, nor who knew and who didn't. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 13:10:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
I find it amusing to see the way they are bringing back old characters that they shouldn't have killed off anyway.
We don't know that anyone is coming back. Just that in the Realms, some don't think the characters are really dead -- or that they won't come back.
Oh come on. Many of the most popular characters will be back. Same as the gods are returning. Its just that with the individuals, more elaborate ways are needed to explain their return. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 14:06:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
I find it amusing to see the way they are bringing back old characters that they shouldn't have killed off anyway.
We don't know that anyone is coming back. Just that in the Realms, some don't think the characters are really dead -- or that they won't come back.
Oh come on. Many of the most popular characters will be back. Same as the gods are returning. Its just that with the individuals, more elaborate ways are needed to explain their return. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 15:40:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
I find it amusing to see the way they are bringing back old characters that they shouldn't have killed off anyway.
We don't know that anyone is coming back. Just that in the Realms, some don't think the characters are really dead -- or that they won't come back.
Oh come on. Many of the most popular characters will be back. Same as the gods are returning. Its just that with the individuals, more elaborate ways are needed to explain their return.
WotC has said that gods will be returning. I do not know of any such statements concerning deceased characters. Can you provide a reference to where WotC said that? |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 16:11:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
I find it amusing to see the way they are bringing back old characters that they shouldn't have killed off anyway.
We don't know that anyone is coming back. Just that in the Realms, some don't think the characters are really dead -- or that they won't come back.
Oh come on. Many of the most popular characters will be back. Same as the gods are returning. Its just that with the individuals, more elaborate ways are needed to explain their return.
WotC has said that gods will be returning. I do not know of any such statements concerning deceased characters. Can you provide a reference to where WotC said that?
(Sigh) Do I really need to? I could point to the shards of halasters soul etc but I think we all know that some of the most beloved characters will be coming back. Ed already smuggled Mirt and Vangy back into the Realms, Bob has done the same with the companions. There, it has already begun.
How's that for precious proof? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 18:09:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
(Sigh) Do I really need to? I could point to the shards of halasters soul etc but I think we all know that some of the most beloved characters will be coming back. Ed already smuggled Mirt and Vangy back into the Realms, Bob has done the same with the companions. There, it has already begun.
How's that for precious proof?
Insufficient. A handful of examples of people sidestepping the timejump or returning from death does not mean that every single dead NPC will come back -- especially those who died before the Spellplague ever happened.
Ao restoring deities is one matter. Bringing back all the NPCs would go way beyond the bounds of believability... It'd be easier to simply roll back the clock, which WotC has already said they will not do.
So yeah, I need more proof that someone will return. Saying that people are uncertain about a character's death is far from conclusive proof that character will be back. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 18:31:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
(Sigh) Do I really need to? I could point to the shards of halasters soul etc but I think we all know that some of the most beloved characters will be coming back. Ed already smuggled Mirt and Vangy back into the Realms, Bob has done the same with the companions. There, it has already begun.
How's that for precious proof?
Insufficient. A handful of examples of people sidestepping the timejump or returning from death does not mean that every single dead NPC will come back -- especially those who died before the Spellplague ever happened.
Ao restoring deities is one matter. Bringing back all the NPCs would go way beyond the bounds of believability... It'd be easier to simply roll back the clock, which WotC has already said they will not do.
So yeah, I need more proof that someone will return. Saying that people are uncertain about a character's death is far from conclusive proof that character will be back.
For gods sake it has happened already. 6 times!!
I never said ALL would be back did I?
It's just part of the backpeddling WOTC has had to do.
I shall put my neck on the line and say that Khelben will be back in some way. |
Edited by - Arcanus on 30 Oct 2013 18:33:05 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
879 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 20:36:15
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| Can't we just be happy about the teaser? And about news and rumors concerning interesting characters of the past that were left out from 4e for one reason or another? |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 20:40:10
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| I am happy. I only said I was amused. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 21:51:36
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I know of another that will be back.
Anyhow, I'm pretty sure Arcanus has the right of it - the gods will not be the only ones getting the "OH! Look who's back!" treatment. Not everyone, but some of the important folk of 1e/2e/3e will return, of that I'm fairly certain. I don't know if they are going to use a sweeping, across the board explanation ("by resetting the pantheon, we had to reset those mortal events that lead-up to the changes, etc"), or if they will continue with the one (convenient) deux ex machina at-a-time treatment. Probably a smattering of both.
So long as its not too silly, I will be happy to see a lot of them back. There were just too many unfinished stories there. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 30 Oct 2013 21:54:56 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 22:37:17
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I, personally, will go on record as saying I don't expect to see more than a dozen or so NPCs from 3E or before who suddenly pop back up in 5E. This is of course disregarding the semi-immortal ones like Chosen or undead -- I refer specifically to human mortals who died in 3E or before, or who would have only normal lifespans.
People want to accuse WotC of backpedaling -- I don't see it. Backpedaling would be getting rid of the post-3E era altogether. They have already said that prior canon will remain, and that the timeline will continue to move forward from the 4E era. Just because they are undoing some things and allowing a couple of their most popular authors to keep their characters does not mean that 5E is going to be 3E, round 2. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12020 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 22:57:10
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| Personally, I hate to say it, but the NPC's that lack the ability to extend their life, I'd rather see disappear. Make books based in the earlier years to showcase them. Lord knows there's enough of us that wouldn't give a damn if a Khelben story was in the 1400's or the 1200's... we'd just want to see Khelben. That being said, I'd like to see certain Zulkirs return, even if they've changed roles (Mythrell'aa and Lauzoril in particular... the others were kind of cardboard representations of their schools). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2013 : 23:46:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, will go on record as saying I don't expect to see more than a dozen or so NPCs from 3E or before who suddenly pop back up in 5E. This is of course disregarding the semi-immortal ones like Chosen or undead -- I refer specifically to human mortals who died in 3E or before, or who would have only normal lifespans.
People want to accuse WotC of backpedaling -- I don't see it. Backpedaling would be getting rid of the post-3E era altogether. They have already said that prior canon will remain, and that the timeline will continue to move forward from the 4E era. Just because they are undoing some things and allowing a couple of their most popular authors to keep their characters does not mean that 5E is going to be 3E, round 2.
They are trying to put the realms back to what people loved and are making major changes to make it so.
They have already stated time and again that 4e wasn't popular. Bob and Ed's 'vision' is to get the old realms back.
That is backpeddling.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 03:41:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, will go on record as saying I don't expect to see more than a dozen or so NPCs from 3E or before who suddenly pop back up in 5E. This is of course disregarding the semi-immortal ones like Chosen or undead -- I refer specifically to human mortals who died in 3E or before, or who would have only normal lifespans.
People want to accuse WotC of backpedaling -- I don't see it. Backpedaling would be getting rid of the post-3E era altogether. They have already said that prior canon will remain, and that the timeline will continue to move forward from the 4E era. Just because they are undoing some things and allowing a couple of their most popular authors to keep their characters does not mean that 5E is going to be 3E, round 2.
They are trying to put the realms back to what people loved and are making major changes to make it so.
They have already stated time and again that 4e wasn't popular. Bob and Ed's 'vision' is to get the old realms back.
That is backpeddling.
And yet, they are still keeping the Spellplague, all of the 4E lore remains valid, and the timejump will remain. So if they are making a few concessions but keeping a lot of what people said they didn't like, is that really backpedaling?
If WotC truly wanted to bring the old Realms back and was backpedaling to do it, then they would wave 4E out of existence and continue from the end of 3E -- or maybe even reset back to the OGB.
And either way, that still does not address your assertion that "Many of the most popular characters will be back". |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 09:10:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arcanus
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I, personally, will go on record as saying I don't expect to see more than a dozen or so NPCs from 3E or before who suddenly pop back up in 5E. This is of course disregarding the semi-immortal ones like Chosen or undead -- I refer specifically to human mortals who died in 3E or before, or who would have only normal lifespans.
People want to accuse WotC of backpedaling -- I don't see it. Backpedaling would be getting rid of the post-3E era altogether. They have already said that prior canon will remain, and that the timeline will continue to move forward from the 4E era. Just because they are undoing some things and allowing a couple of their most popular authors to keep their characters does not mean that 5E is going to be 3E, round 2.
They are trying to put the realms back to what people loved and are making major changes to make it so.
They have already stated time and again that 4e wasn't popular. Bob and Ed's 'vision' is to get the old realms back.
That is backpeddling.
And yet, they are still keeping the Spellplague, all of the 4E lore remains valid, and the timejump will remain. So if they are making a few concessions but keeping a lot of what people said they didn't like, is that really backpedaling?
If WotC truly wanted to bring the old Realms back and was backpedaling to do it, then they would wave 4E out of existence and continue from the end of 3E -- or maybe even reset back to the OGB.
And either way, that still does not address your assertion that "Many of the most popular characters will be back".
They are obviously a business first and want to please as many as they can, this includes 4e fans. So it makes no odds that they are keeping prior lore. They are returning the realms to a pre spellplague state as much as they can whilst not changing the past. I don't blame them for doing this, it's the only way to keep the old and the new guard happy. Using Ao to make the big change is a drastic move to do it as quickly as possible.
They know they were very wrong with 4e so 5e is an attempt to put things right.
Backpeddling.
My statement that of many of the most characters will be back was deliberately ambiguous. Obviously I do not have exact details about the who and the when. Many is a relative term anyway. Each of us would see 'many' as a different amount. Don't forget that if you add up say, each of the big authors main Npc's then the total won't be huge. |
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Last Ed's Forged Realmslore
