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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
 Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 09:25:05
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From reading some of the 4th edition books they have essentially kept many of the minor NPC's already, they are just given different names and it is stated that they are their great great grand children.
The bigger players (like Randal Morn and leaders of towns, counties, countries etc) may be gone, but joe bloggs who owned such and such an inn in Suzail is now Jim bloggs with exactly the same description.
And this may well be the saving grace of the new edition. Whereever they have Jim Bloggs i will just turn him back into Joe Bloggs for my campaign. And if his inn burns down, as long as it isnt due to something daft like the aboleth sovereignty turn up and destroy it for an unfathomable reason and then disappear before anyone can stop them - or pieces of a different planet land on it, then i will have that noted as a future event for when play continues past the 1375 timeline.
So ignoring the spellplague, i still do have some names of future children of the kings, dukes, mayors, etc and a brief bit about their actions which gives insight into their personality.
It means the 5e stuff may well be more useful to me than 3e was because lots of the 3e stuff was just advancing the timeline maybe one to three years down the line and most things stayed the same. Now i have hundreds of years of events which, ignoring the more ridiculous events, could be quite helpful to a long running campaign. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 12:36:48
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I see it more as a compromise - we are basically getting the 1e/2e era shoe-horned into the 4e/5e timeframe.
@Wooly - lol, you think you limited your list by NOT including Chosen? Most of the ones I suspect will return will be Chosen, or other sorts of 'agents' of gods. Thats still a pretty big list.
In FR, by not counting such folk, thats like saying "a dozen people on Earth, not counting any humans". Most of the important characters ARE associated with 'the gods' in some way (even Drizzt). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Oct 2013 13:48:47 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36877 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 13:00:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
@Wooly - lol, you think yoou limited your list by NOT including Chosen? Most of the ones I suspect will return will be Chosen, or other sorts of 'agants' of gods.
In FR, by not counting such folk, thats like saying "a dozen people on Earth, not counting any humans". Most of the important characters ARE associated with 'the gods' in some way (even Drizzt).
Actually, yes, I do think that I limited my list that way. The issue with returning characters is that many of the named NPCs of the Realms are humans, and thus subject to a shorter lifespan -- so they'd not be around more than 100 years later, in the 5E era. Chosen and undead (and non-humans) are an obvious exception to this list, since 100 years isn't all that long to most of them, and most of them had already been around for centuries.
So my statement is that I expect to see only a dozen or so regular humans who somehow remain after the timejump. I don't expect to see many people who aren't already subject to extended lifespans somehow still around. There have been exceptions already, yes, and I'm sure there will be some more -- but I remain convinced that we're going to see a lot more new characters, and that the majority of the non-enhanced humans from before the 3E era are long gone.
There are only so many ways that a normal human can get around a hundred year timejump, and a fair number of those methods have already been used. |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 13:46:43
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| Oh there has to be more new people brought to the realms else it would stagnate. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 13:54:54
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You mean sales would stagnate, right? {smirk}
Because we can run a game set in any era, right out of the OGB.
We are coming full-circle back to what I perceive as the main problem with the Forgotten Realms: A novel series must move constantly forward or else it stagnates. An RPG setting should remain fairly static, or else they can never 'finish' it (and we get an endless number of books on the exact same regions, over and over again).
FR can never be 'finished'. Golarion, on the other hand, can be, because very little changes, and the timeline barely moves. Thats much more useful for DMs. By the time they detail the entire planet, fans will be ready for another setting (which may not be for another 20 years!) Eberron went this route - its why I can appreciate it. Its a complete setting, something that our poor FR can never be.
I truly believe you CAN'T have it both ways. I am looking forward to seeing how 5e handles this problem. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 31 Oct 2013 13:55:52 |
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 18:55:24
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Well I am happy with the timeline moving forward and being able to play or read in the past. I don't see it as a major issue tbh.
Does there have to be an end to the Realms? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 31 Oct 2013 : 21:01:21
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I don't know...
'Back in the day' TV series just went on and on and on, until folks lost interest and stopped watching, and then the series just got canceled (zero closure there).
Nowadays, the people who write good television plan a beginning, a middle, and an end. The series has a predestined finish, and viewers are far less likely to get bored by a never ending cycle of the same plot. I think this is a sign that our tastes for such things have 'matured'.
So back in the 70's, I would have had a hard time thinking anything should end, but now, I think a setting with a pre-programmed timeline isn't such a bad thing. We get closure - something sorely missed at the end of 3e.
As for novels, I never read the last books of WoT or SoT - I grew too bored with both to be bothered. I think I'll just stick to trilogies from now on - thats the perfect amount, IMO. For much the same reason, I have no interest in reading any FR novels again. They're not even about anything I care about anymore. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Arcanus
Senior Scribe
485 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 13:48:20
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Well by your reckoning all rpg is the same plot really. Do not forget that this is a rather niche market. Those that love these worlds rarely tire of them completely. This is not tv. Fans are mostly in it for the long run. No end needed.
As a side point i did ask ed if had envisioned an end to the realms. His reply was yes and he knew how. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6383 Posts |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1727 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2013 : 18:40:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
... but Khelben is presumed dead? Now THAT is interesting indeed. 
Do remember that there was some intent toward keeping the news of Khelben's death a secret. So his presumed death could be a reflection of that.
Remember, too, that Tsarra had assumed the guise of the Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun. This means that right after the events of Blackstaff, she was a Lord of Waterdeep, head of the Moonstars and mage teacher at Blackstaff Tower. We really don't know how or when this changed, exactly, nor who knew and who didn't.
Actually, the clue/note on when Tsarra's ruse was unveiled was in BLACKSTAFF TOWER, the excerpt atop Chapter 19. The date has to do with Maliantor's book, not the date at which her illusions failed and she was revealed to NOT be Khelben. She was revealed in 1396, then was the Blackstaff until she died in 1399 with many of the other Moonstars at the Stump Bog. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31799 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 03:18:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
... but Khelben is presumed dead? Now THAT is interesting indeed.
Do remember that there was some intent toward keeping the news of Khelben's death a secret. So his presumed death could be a reflection of that.
Remember, too, that Tsarra had assumed the guise of the Khelben "Blackstaff" Arunsun. This means that right after the events of Blackstaff, she was a Lord of Waterdeep, head of the Moonstars and mage teacher at Blackstaff Tower. We really don't know how or when this changed, exactly, nor who knew and who didn't.
Actually, the clue/note on when Tsarra's ruse was unveiled was in BLACKSTAFF TOWER, the excerpt atop Chapter 19. The date has to do with Maliantor's book, not the date at which her illusions failed and she was revealed to NOT be Khelben. She was revealed in 1396, then was the Blackstaff until she died in 1399 with many of the other Moonstars at the Stump Bog.
Nuts! I forgot what was revealed in Blackstaff Tower.
Disregard my earlier ramblings, Markus. 
...
On the positive side of things, though, this proves I'll need to schedule an upcoming re-read of both Steven's Realms novels sometime in the foreseeable future. "To-Do List" pending, of course.  |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2013 : 12:43:54
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I knew that Stump Bog was up to no good!
Look at it, just sitting there... plotting....
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This thread just gave me another idea/twist for 5e:
Bring Khelben back, but place his spirit inside the body of a cute, 15 year old girl. That ought to drive him completely nuts (because everyone will simply 'dismiss him', which is something no-one should EVER do to Khelen). He'd have to re-learn magic with his new body - his knowledge would be intact, but he'd still have to practice somatic and verbal components.
A young girl with a 'grumpy old man' attitude - that would be pretty funny. Elminster would have a field day with that (and perhaps Khelben should avoid El, considering his tastes lean in that direction).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 02 Nov 2013 12:48:31 |
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