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Aaren Icetear
Acolyte
4 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 13:33:14
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Hi again guys :)
As you can understand from my previous thread, my party is on his way to Mithral Hall.
Assuming they know how to get there (there are 2 dwarves in the group), which road should they choose starting from Silverymoon?
Looking at the Silver Marches Map, the best way seems to follow the Rauvin to Rivermoot, and then head to Settlestone / Keeper's Dale.
The Forgotten Realms Wiki suggests:
quote:
Mithral Hall provide to trade other Silver Marches cities via Winter Edge
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Winter_Edge
However in Mithral Hall page it says:
quote:
On the east side of Fourthpeak was a small, hidden door that came out overlooking the river Surbrin. Known as Surbrin Gate, this door was not marked from the outside and for this reason was rarely used as an entrance. It was instead used as an exit via Garumn's Gorge.
Should my party reach Settlestone via Winter Edge, through the Frost Hills? Or am I missing something?
Thanks in advance for your help, and still sorry for my english :)
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 04:20:05
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It all depends on when in Mithral Hall's history you want to talk about.
In the Hall's ancient past, the Clan Battlehammer dwarves, like most dwarves, were quite insular and segregated from the other races. They did conduct trade with the other races, but such proceedings were highly secretive.
At some time in Mithral Hall's distant past, there was a natural gas explosion on the western side of the complex. This explosion caused a massive cave-in, and when the dust settled, the result was the valley known as Keeper's Dale. This valley runs west to east, right up to what is now the western face of the mountain Fourthpeak. There are high walls to the north and south of the valley, overlooking the pass. This would provide an excellent overwatch for dwarven defenders of the Hall whenever merchant and war parties would come and go, and so, this served as the primary entrance and exit for the Hall.
The eastern side of the mountain is more barren, and also more exposed to the expanse of flat land near the Surbrin River. This eastern mountain face would be tough ground to scale by an enemy, but it is also more difficult to defend than the western valley. Therefore, the eastern door was used only as an escape exit from the bridged road over Garumn's Gorge (Streams of Silver).
The western entrance used to be hidden, and could only be opened by an enchanted dwarven item. But this door was torn down by the golem Bok in the year 1356 DR (SOSi). It was replaced by 1358 DR with a massive stone and iron, two-part gate ("Legacy of the Drow").
With the renewal of Mithral Hall's trade and with King Bruenor's newfound openness towards other races, the eastern approach was given a massive gate of its own, as well ("The Hunter's Blades Trilogy").
But in 1371 DR, King Obould Many-Arrows' orcs stormed up Keeper's Dale and chased the dwarves back inside the Hall's western entrance, and eventually began sealing the western gate with boulders, and claimed the valley for orckin. With that, the eastern door then became the primary, and only, major entrance and exit to Mithral Hall. And Winter's Edge became a sort of base camp outside of the Hall, across the Surbrin.
It is not clear to what extent the orcs relaxed their stranglehold on Keeper's Dale and the western side of the mountain when peace was struck between the goodly races and the Kingdom of Many-Arrows in 1372 DR (The Orc King). But it should be noted that the Treaty of Garumn's Gorge was signed on the bridge spanning its namesake structure, Garumn's Gorge, which is on the eastern side of the Hall. And Chieftain Grguch's mighty battle-horn Kokto Gung Karuck was installed over the eastern door to the complex, rather than over the western door. This would seem to suggest that the eastern door was intended to remain the sole official gateway to the Hall.
In late 1376 DR, Regis went fishing on the bank of the Surbrin, and he noted that the boundaries between Mithral Hall and the Kingdom of Many-Arrows were still being strictly observed (The Pirate King).
In 1385 DR, when Catti-brie was struck with the Spellplague, Drizzt returned to the Hall through the eastern gate. And the adventure party bound to seek Cadderly's assistance with Cat's affliction used that same eastern door both on their departure and their return (The Ghost King).
As I understand it, your adventure is set in 1374 DR, right? So you should go with the eastern entrance. The peace with the orcs was still quite uneasy at that time, so the western door probably would've still been off-limits at that point.
(I am curious about one thing, though: For anyone who has played the video game Demon Stone, which was apparently set after "The Hunter's Blades" {1371 DR} and before the death of Khelben Blackstaff {1374 DR}, which gate to Mithral Hall is supposedly featured, there?) |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 05:20:09
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| Beast, if you ever decide to run a dwarven adventure...I want to be part of the party! |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Aaren Icetear
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 15:05:49
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| Thank you again BEAST, you're simply perfect :) |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2013 : 05:03:42
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No problem, folks. Happy to help.
And thanks for the kind words. I'm hardly perfect, though. These are just my stomping grounds, so I'm lucky enough to be well-versed in the details of this particular matter.
I've loved Mithral Hall ever since Streams of Silver first came out. It's fun to be able to share some of that passion with others. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2013 : 16:43:13
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BEAST,
In my campaign, post Hunter's Blade trilogy (and prior to the signing of the treaty) I had the dwarves reclaim Keeper's Dale in the absence of large numbers of orcs. I didn't have them using it as a full fledged entrance to the Hall, I just had them sortie out and reclaim the dale itself around the gate (as opposed to the cliff tops) as I assumed they wouldn't be the sorts to be 'forced' to close it/forced underground.
However, after pondering your comments, while I certainly think they could have done so, it seems as though their shift to the Eastern Gate as the Hall's primary trade and military entryway for the years following the war (and in keeping with my recollections of the fortifications/bridge built there with the aid of Silverymoon/Luruar troops, wizards, and engineers) would suggest that they would largely seal off the Dale gate (possibly trapping the dale itself with varied wicked surprises for any orcs bold enough to approach the former gate). So, I think I will have them batten down that hatch and now use it only as a secret sortie point for their scouts and emergency exit much in the same way the eastern gate was used prior to the war.
What say you to that? |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2013 : 17:22:01
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Yeah, the way I see it (because I had to study all of that lore when doing my last map of The North) is that the door that used to be the 'back door' is now the 'front door' (I am not using specific names here simply because I don't have the time to look things up, but it is as BEAST states).
If you click on that link above, that small (unmarked) square near Mithral Hall would be the ruins of Settlestone.
I really need to update that map - I found another (canon) settlement: Parnast (from The Nether Scroll).  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2013 17:22:22 |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 25 Oct 2013 : 05:34:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Kris the Grey
BEAST,
In my campaign, post Hunter's Blade trilogy (and prior to the signing of the treaty) I had the dwarves reclaim Keeper's Dale in the absence of large numbers of orcs. I didn't have them using it as a full fledged entrance to the Hall, I just had them sortie out and reclaim the dale itself around the gate (as opposed to the cliff tops) as I assumed they wouldn't be the sorts to be 'forced' to close it/forced underground.
And my heart tells me that you would be right. I have griped repeatedly to Bob that it just didn't sit well with me that the dwarves would have ever given up on fighting with Obould's orcs. Ceasefire for a season? Maybe. But sign a peace treaty with them? Never!
Honestly, I see the dwarves as fighting to the bitter end. Remember King Garumn, and Prince Bangor Battlehammer, after Shimmergloom arrived in Mithral Hall? Remember how they fought to the death in the entry hall to the Hall, and that's where Bruenor found their remains in Streams of Silver? That's how I see dwarves. They're stubborn, and they don't let go of grudges and make nice. Call them "too stubborn", if you wish. But I just don't see them letting go of their hatred and demand for justice against the orcs over this.
Bob has written that Bruenor went ahead with the Treaty because of the numbers. King Bruenor just didn't see a continued war boding well for his dwarves, numbers-wise. So an unsteady peace was struck, as a matter of pragmatism. Ironically enough, peace . . . was a necessary evil.
I told Bob that it sounds like Bruenor, then, must've engaged in a little "CCC" (see The Orc King) of his own: Conjectural Casualty Calculus.
But that doesn't mean that the dwarves played nice all the time. Skirmishes happened occasionally throughout the history of the Kingdom of Many-Arrows. And I cannot believe that the orcs started all of them, either. Some of the dwarves certainly tested the waters from time to time, too, just on "general principle", so to speak.
Gerti Orelsdottr pulled her frost giants out of Obould's army during The Two Swords, late in 1371 DR. So this left the majority of the occupation and fortification of Keeper's Dale up to Obould's orcs. I imagine that the early days of this reorganization would've been prime time for a little dwarven excursion into the Dale to get a little "look-see".
I suppose that the dwarves could've even dug tunnels right up under the orc encampment, much like they did in Icewind Dale in The Crystal Shard. Some of the more playful sorts might've even planted Clan Battlehammer pennants in the ground, as if to say, "Aye, ye crooked-tusk pig-face, we was 'ere!" To some of them, that might've even felt like they were reclaiming the Dale for the dwarves, again. It would've been a moral victory, if nothing else.
quote:
However, after pondering your comments, while I certainly think they could have done so, it seems as though their shift to the Eastern Gate as the Hall's primary trade and military entryway for the years following the war (and in keeping with my recollections of the fortifications/bridge built there with the aid of Silverymoon/Luruar troops, wizards, and engineers) would suggest that they would largely seal off the Dale gate (possibly trapping the dale itself with varied wicked surprises for any orcs bold enough to approach the former gate). So, I think I will have them batten down that hatch and now use it only as a secret sortie point for their scouts and emergency exit much in the same way the eastern gate was used prior to the war.
What say you to that?
I like the sound of that. But I don't know how it could work. The ruined doors are all bouldered up from the outside. Drizzt and the dwarves learned of what was happening outside the boulder pile by climbing up through the chimneys and looking down from the western mountain face. So I guess that that would make the chimneys, collectively, the western back door, now.
Still, I relish the notion of orcs waking up to little infernal foaming mug banners next to their tents. "Godsdamnit, Snarl: them little ones, they did it again! I found me another one!"  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
Edited by - BEAST on 25 Oct 2013 05:37:03 |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 18 Nov 2013 : 05:32:10
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As a side note, when I was re-reading the short story "Comrades at Odds" from "Realms of the Elves" I ran into the following paragraph describing the situation at the western gate in the winter following the orc attack on the Hall.
"With the weather holding and the sun still bright, though black clouds gathered in the northeast, they flew through Keeper's Dale and past the western door of King Bruenor's domain. Both of them took comfort in seeing the gates remained solid and closed." |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Entrance to Mithral Hall
