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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 16:56:16
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Poll Question:
Mask is the only deity I can almost say I like. All right, maybe "like" is stretching it, as I really hardly care for all the gods. But he's the one who doesn't make me roll my eyes involuntarily.
I welcomed his return. More mischief, more fun. I just don't like that it has to be Riven. I like Riven, and making him god almost surely decreases his future "novel time." And even if he'd be given much novel time as the previous books, I doubt I would appreciate the circumstances--he'd be too powerful to face anyone save his fellow gods. Being able to fix everything with a wave of a hand takes all the excitement away--is boring.
I would have liked it if Mask returned as himself--as Lessenor--and Riven stayed as, well, Riven the human assassin. Though I kinda guessed it would be Vasen, and that Riven, Cale, and Mags (with Orsin) would start anew.
What are your thoughts?
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 14 Oct 2013 03:57:51
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1847 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 17:34:52
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| I voted he should have returned as himself. As I've stated in other threads, I don't care for this particular brand of mortal ascension-I don't like mortals replacing former deities. I'm okay with a mortal ascending to (demi)godhood, no higher...and that ascension should be very hard earned. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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sagechan
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 19:10:16
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Based on the way Paul wrote Twilight War and The Godborn I voted for Cale. Overall I'd have chosen Lessenor to return, but it seems to me that being absorbed by Shar was a true and irrevocable end, he's just gone.
Choosing Riven over Cale makes sense from a future novel standpoint (Cale/Vasen probably better stories) Cale seems to have had the better mind for the role. |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 22:13:16
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| I voted he should have stayed as himself. I loved Mask. However, I am glad he is back at all. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 13 Oct 2013 : 22:46:25
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| I'm torn between riven and lessenor |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 03:49:58
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I'm torn between riven and lessenor
Just choose one. We have to let Paul know what we think. Perhaps he'd be so kind as to let his fans slightly steer his plot in the next book--that is, revert Riven's humanity and have Lessenor return?
On a side note, folks, in case you took options 5 and 9 as the same, they're not. For some reason, when I enclosed the word "dead" in quotation marks, it didn't appear in the options, leaving us "Mask should have stayed" for option 5, which can be read the same as option 9. So I got rid of the quotation marks. |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 14 Oct 2013 04:00:40 |
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sagechan
Acolyte
USA
33 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 04:02:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I'm torn between riven and lessenor
Just choose one. We have to let Paul know what we think. Perhaps he'd be so kind as to let his fans slightly steer his plot in the next book--that is, revert Riven's humanity and have Lessenor return?
Given where he left off, I'm very curious as to where Paul takes Erevis' and RivenMask's relationship. Riven told him not to pray, but is Cale still a Priest and/or Chosen of Mask? Does his established relationship with Riven give him some other relationship with his new God? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 04:07:37
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quote:
Originally posted by sagechan
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
I'm torn between riven and lessenor
Just choose one. We have to let Paul know what we think. Perhaps he'd be so kind as to let his fans slightly steer his plot in the next book--that is, revert Riven's humanity and have Lessenor return?
Given where he left off, I'm very curious as to where Paul takes Erevis' and RivenMask's relationship. Riven told him not to pray, but is Cale still a Priest and/or Chosen of Mask? Does his established relationship with Riven give him some other relationship with his new God?
Cale [stuck somewhere]: Riven, I need more shadows to get myself out of this shit. Give me some! Now!
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 04:26:05
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I like Riven, but I'm less than enthusiastic about him subsuming Mask's portfolio. By his own admission, Riven isn't a great schemer. The office of Mask best suits a character like Jarlaxle Baenre or Jack Ravenwild. Riven is certainly sneaky and unsettling, but for me, he has TOO much of an edge to be the God of Thieves.
Btw, does anybody else think of Riven as being the long lost brother of Riddick (Vin Diesel's sci fi character)? |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 04:56:43
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Riven's more fit for the portfolio of Murder. But then there's enough deities tugging for that (Cyric and Bhaal), so . . . |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 05:10:18
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| so did erevis come back too????? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 06:19:11
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
so did erevis come back too?????
Yes. In the flesh. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 06:46:01
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| so I wonder what he said to his son........ |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Lilianviaten
Senior Scribe
489 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 07:27:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Riven's more fit for the portfolio of Murder. But then there's enough deities tugging for that (Cyric and Bhaal), so . . .
Considering your other thread gave me an idea. What if Riven took over the portfolio of Revenge? I know Hoar already has that, but remember when Shar, Bane, and Tyr were all fighting to control Hoar? (actually Shar just wanted to kill him and take his portfolio, I think).
Anyway, Bane rules Hoar now, so Hoar undoubtedly uses Revenge in an evil sense. Before Tyr's demise, he tried to get Hoar to use his power for good, by turning Revenge into "Poetic Justice". Riven seems perfect for that. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 07:51:02
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
so I wonder what he said to his son........
That he knew him, that he saw him in his dreams, that he loved him, that he believed in him, that he should "write the story," that he shines in Amaunator's light . . . |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 07:53:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Lilianviaten
Btw, does anybody else think of Riven as being the long lost brother of Riddick (Vin Diesel's sci fi character)?
Yes, though I picute Riven to be quite . . . taller. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 11:10:33
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I voted he should have returned as himself.
This just goes to prove that the name of a god is more like a 'job', then an actual individual. Many folks could wear the hat over the years, and most mortals would be none-the-wiser. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 14:14:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I voted he should have returned as himself.
This just goes to prove that the name of a god is more like a 'job', then an actual individual. Many folks could wear the hat over the years, and most mortals would be none-the-wiser.
Personally, I do not see why.
We could accept that Danifae became the host for the reborn Lolth and still be Lolth. I am willing to accept that Riven can be the host as the new Mask. At this point, he probably absorbed Mask's memories(As they were showing snippets in the book) and will in time become more Mask than Riven.
Overall, I think of him as just Mask again, and Riven is kind of being absorbed and the last of his humanity is fading the moment he gave his girls to Gerak.
But to each his own |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 14:31:38
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Well, Yeah, I agree with all of that - I said as much concerning Khiaransalee in the other thread.
When a mortal bonds with a deific avatar (a slice of their essence, if you will), it eventually subsumes them. At least, 99.9% of the time (there are those extremely rare instances wherein a mortal has more willpower then a god, I suppose). The mortal persona is still in there, but it becomes 'buried'.
So after a time, deities (and even archfiends) can have dozens - perhaps hundreds (thousands?) of these 'souls' inside them, which is a very good trope. Even Freddy Kruger went that route. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 15:25:28
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Meh. Even Mystra still has the memories of Midnight, and sometimes even acts according to her "human impulses."
Perhaps over time the human memories/personality of an ascended deity erodes, fades away, though I doubt it would be totally erased. And if such were the case, then that means we "totally" lost Riven.
Oh, and I can't believe my eyes! Option 1 is winning! |
Every beginning has an end. |
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MrsDrasek
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 17:34:47
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| I'm having a really hard time with the vote on this one. I do like Mask and Riven is one of my favorites. I guess I was ok with it, however I hope it does not diminish his (Riven's) novel time. I really like the whole team kept in tact. I admit I was surprised that it was not Cale but Vasen would not have made any sense to me. I can't wait to see where all this goes in the future. |
Part Well...Regret Nothing |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 18:16:46
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quote:
Originally posted by MrsDrasek
But Vasen would not have made any sense to me.
Anyone from Cale's company would have made sense still, save Gerak. Vasen "burned out" all of Amaunator's light, a consequence for momentarily weakening Shar and Mephistopheles. And he's the least developed and not quite part of the original "company." Even if Lessenor gains full control of his "body" and totally wipes out Vasen's memories and personality, the blow to the fans would not have been that hard. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2013 : 01:48:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Meh. Even Mystra still has the memories of Midnight, and sometimes even acts according to her "human impulses."
Perhaps over time the human memories/personality of an ascended deity erodes, fades away, though I doubt it would be totally erased. And if such were the case, then that means we "totally" lost Riven.
Oh, and I can't believe my eyes! Option 1 is winning!
I'd definitely say the Mystra/Midnight situation is different. Mystra didn't merge with Midnight, Midnight was given Mystra's portfolio after her death then went about learning what she could of the old Mystra(from Azuth/Chosen/Magisters, etc.). |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 18 Oct 2013 : 17:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I voted he should have returned as himself.
This just goes to prove that the name of a god is more like a 'job', then an actual individual. Many folks could wear the hat over the years, and most mortals would be none-the-wiser.
Overall, I think of him as just Mask again, and Riven is kind of being absorbed and the last of his humanity is fading the moment he gave his girls to Gerak.
That's the worst scenario, I think. Seeing Riven once in a long while is bad enough, having him "erased" is, again, the worst. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Euranna
Learned Scribe
USA
219 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2013 : 20:53:50
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I voted that he come back as himself, really because I love Riven and Cale doing stuff together as well. As well as the lack of seeing the big picture that Mask's portfolio seems to require. He was having a hard time making a plan for stopping Shar, and Cale in a way is the one that sorta pushed the plan to completion. I am glad that Mask is back, and if it is Riven, I have a feeling that Riven is gone..just like Cale said "Riven is gone...he is Mask".
Now, what is going to happen in the next 3 books Paul is contracted for, it is anyone's game. Though is Cale is with his son the paladin, well..that will be....weird...
I believe that it is mentioned also that Cale has lost his god. I am not sure if he is a priest or Chosen any longer. Obviously Riven is not the 2nd/Left hand of Mask anymore. Those plot points may have come to a conclusion (?).
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2013 : 23:13:13
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Ah, well. D&D giveth, and D&D taketh away. Riven needs not remain a god, his divine station could be lost as “easily“ as it was obtained. Especially given that competing Powers have asserted their interests, not the least of these being Shar and Mephistopheles.
Just please - please! - don‘t permit that bumbling idiot Cyric be the one who successfully claims this exalted prize. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 21 Oct 2013 : 23:28:37
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Ah, well. D&D giveth, and D&D taketh away. Riven needs not remain a god, his divine station could be lost as “easily“ as it was obtained. Especially given that competing Powers have asserted their interests, not the least of these being Shar and Mephistopheles.
Just please - please! - don‘t permit that bumbling idiot Cyric be the one who successfully claims this exalted prize. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 01:01:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Ah, well. D&D giveth, and D&D taketh away. Riven needs not remain a god, his divine station could be lost as “easily“ as it was obtained. Especially given that competing Powers have asserted their interests, not the least of these being Shar and Mephistopheles.
Just please - please! - don‘t permit that bumbling idiot Cyric be the one who successfully claims this exalted prize.
Meph really isn't a threat to a true God. Even Asmodeus would not have been a threat to Azuth if he he'd not fallen into his living room near dead on a silver platter. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 01:33:07
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Mephistopheles and Asmodeus may not be “true“ gods, but I‘m inclined to think they command sufficient power to destroy gods. Much depends on which point in canon timelines is considered, and which particular game rules might apply. My understanding is that Meph does possess some divine power/rank/whatever, indirectly seized from Mask/Shar, and of course Asmodeus subsumed Azuth‘s power (whatever that‘s worth in a post-Mystra setting), though I may be wrong.
Regardless, there certainly are godly agencies with sufficient power to demote/destroy Riven, Rivalen, Mask, and each other. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 22 Oct 2013 01:34:48 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2013 : 07:19:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Just please - please! - don‘t permit that bumbling idiot Cyric be the one who successfully claims this exalted prize.
Ah, no. Cyric would be busy "dancing" with Bhaal, now that he's back. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Mirtek
Senior Scribe
595 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2013 : 21:48:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Mephistopheles and Asmodeus may not be “true“ gods, but I‘m inclined to think they command sufficient power to destroy gods. Much depends on which point in canon timelines is considered, and which particular game rules might apply.
And which author is currently writing.
In Kemp's books archfiends can't hold a candle to even the weakest of deities.
Vhaerun was able to just toy with the 2nd most powerfull yugoloth and casually promise him to destroy the most powerfull for him if he behaves.
Mephi was freaking out over attaining a piece of the divine spark of a quasi deity like it was the best thing since sliced bread and believed it enough to make Asmo tremble in his fortress (unfortunately Azuth fell into Asmo's lap too shortly thereafter).
I personally don't like Kemp's treatment of archfiends. Although I very much like his treatment of even the weakest of godlings, I think that archfiends should also be classified as demi- to greater deities (with most falling into the demi- to lesser deity level) in their own right.
IMO as the lord of the eight Mephi should possess the power of an intermediate deity himself and don't need to thirst for the crumbs of a quasi deities divine spark.
Also Mephi being hurt by arrows from Gerak? Really? A huntsmen from some backwater village with his homemade bow?
Yes, he was just forcefully ejected by Aumanator from an embrace by Shar, but still some homemade arrows should just bounce of him without as much as irritating him (being stabbed by Weaveshear, now that's something I can buy bothering him in his weakened state).
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Edited by - Mirtek on 23 Oct 2013 23:42:47 |
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Topic |
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The Return of the God of _______ (Spoilers)
