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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 03:17:33
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| ??? I thought Myrkul was the god of death while Bhaal was the lord or murder (a narrowly focused type of death)? |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 03:47:40
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Aye, sfdragon and Arcanamach has the right of it. Kelemvor had both portfolios, death and the dead, and he still has, and Myrkul was the god of death, not Bhaal.
Speaking of Bhaal, I hope his return is tied to Shar taking a big hit in 5E. There is "loss" in murder, so maybe he'd "steal" a fair share of Shar's essence? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2013 : 05:08:52
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Bhaal is already back........
to be straight, Bhaal was never the god of murder, just violent death or sacrificial death.
his title was Lord of Murder.... which could be interpreted as murder as far as violent death. |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2013 : 22:52:32
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| Shandril Shessair makes her triumphant return to the Realms... |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 30 Dec 2013 : 23:53:59
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I was kinda thinking more in terms of Jergal‘s deadly twin sister, Jergalla.
Or was it Myrkulla, Bhaalette, Banelle, Talosina? Cyrica? Something like that.
(Note that Talos previously claimed dominion over the minor portfolio of “Violent Death“ or “Sudden Death“, although it was technically encompassed by Bhaal or Bane.)
For the record, I would personally accept Banjo The Clown or even (gasp!) MystraGoddessIV over that repulsively shoehorned Raven Queen, Unfit Goddess of Orwellian Lore. Just my opinion, of course. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 30 Dec 2013 23:59:50 |
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Veritas
Learned Scribe
209 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 01:48:44
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Or it could be Alusair!
Honestly I'd rather go for something like the Red Knight to Kiaransalee. Although I do like the Raven Queen, I feel Kelemvor is doing the job well enough that the distinction doesn't warrant a replacement. Maybe Zallanora/Shoon is finally making it to the big time! |
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Chosen of Asmodeus
Master of Realmslore
1221 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 04:16:51
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| I can honestly say I hope it's not the Raven Queen. I hate the Raven Queen with a passion. |
"Then I saw there was a way to Hell even from the gates of Heaven"
- John Bunyan, Pilgrim's Progress
Fatum Iustum Stultorum. Righteous is the destiny of fools.
The Roleplayer's Gazebo;
http://theroleplayersgazebo.yuku.com/directory#.Ub4hvvlJOAY |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 04:54:14
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| I like the concept of the Raven Queen, but I wouldn't want her shoehorned into Kieriansalee. I would prefer the RQ become an interloper deity who gains the assistance of Kel as a 'kindred spirit' stated above...only to have her turn on him later. She would secretly start absorbing souls from the wall (mayhaps even with Kel's permission as she convinces him that the wall is kinda evil and she is putting those souls to rest...she then manufactures a reason to absorb more of them over time, culminating in a need to absorb a great deal of them in a short span to assist in some crisis). |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 12:11:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Possible. Though I have a . . . feeling it's going to be Shar--again. Perhaps it won't be that bad. Perhaps it may even be necessary. I mean, she's the one who started the Spellplague, so it may stand to reason she's the one to take a sorry fall when 4E closes and 5E starts.
Maybe in her arrogance to try to steal the portfolio of Death from Kelemvor, she nconsiderably that she'd be forced to lie low for a hundred years or so?
That'd be nice, but the Black Chronology that they revealed at the end of the 3E era specifically referred to a coming weakness of Shar's -- and that certainly didn't happen. I recall that one quite specifically, because I theorized then that we were going to see Shar take a hit.
She lost her shadow weave
Yeah, but there was no indication that this weakened her in any way.
Apparently not. One can say the Shadow Weave is just one of her toys. If the SW weakened her, she shouldn't have been able to jump-start the Cycle of Night, not to mention nearly completed it (and Godborn wouldn't have existed). |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 14:53:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
...to thwart the rise of the goddess of Death.
I am not well versed in english, but could the word "rise" as opposed to "ascension" incidate an already existing goddess either taking on the death domain or already having it and simply gaining more power rather than being a mortal attaining godhood?
Or if both word can be used interchageably? |
Yan
Playtester |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 22:51:39
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Yes, the context of the wording could indicate a newly ascended goddess or a promoted existing goddess - although an existing goddess might lose any or all of her divine power/portfolios when assuming this new identity. This goddess might even be a deity originating from another world or pantheon who gains power and dominion over death in the Realms (Raven Queen could arguably fit this descriptor).
To me the ambiguity is more a question of what is meant by “Goddess of Death“? An actual deity who supplants Kelemvor‘s governance over Death, or just a cool sobriquet for an unopposably deadly adversary who leaves death in her wake?
I‘m guessing her story might be related to the god Mask, along with Erevis Cale‘s timejumped wife and daughter. But who knows? Perhaps WotC will introduce a previously unknown Princess Shade or something? |
[/Ayrik] |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 23:24:51
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and I thought that the RAven Queen was molded in the form of the ruby sorceress from greyhawk.
anyway, as i said, having her as Kelemvor's consort is fine with me, she would then be known as the protector of the dead.... well she does not like undead at all....
but as kiransilee no thanks.
that interloper needs to stay banished.... |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 23:39:45
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| It mentions a Goddess of Death in the underdark. Its Kiaransalee, I just don't think it can get anymore obvious then that. Sheeee's back! |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 23:46:25
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Btw After Venom in her Viens, Zehir has an entrenched place in the realms. I'm betting that Zaltys Serrat is Zehir's Chosen in the 5e realms.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 31 Dec 2013 : 23:49:55
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Neo-Lolth would be another good contender.
I‘d even accept a newly made-over Waukeen, back from the Nine Hells with a vengeance - Vassal of Asmodeus; Goddess of Merchants, Trade, Blood Contracts, and Death! What a great goddess for assassins and mercenaries to worship in place of Bhaal. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Plaguescarred
Learned Scribe
Canada
190 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2014 : 14:45:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Yes, the context of the wording could indicate a newly ascended goddess or a promoted existing goddess - although an existing goddess might lose any or all of her divine power/portfolios when assuming this new identity. This goddess might even be a deity originating from another world or pantheon who gains power and dominion over death in the Realms (Raven Queen could arguably fit this descriptor).
Ok thanks Ayrik! |
Yan
Playtester |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2014 : 15:15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I‘d even accept a newly made-over Waukeen, back from the Nine Hells with a vengeance - Vassal of Asmodeus; Goddess of Merchants, Trade, Blood Contracts, and Death! What a great goddess for assassins and mercenaries to worship in place of Bhaal.
Although 'evil goddess of business dealings' sounds a bit RW and all anti-corporate IMO, it could give Waukeen a sinister edge she's been needing. She's always been a bit lackluster to me... which is weird, considering her penchant toward gold.
As a goddess of the dead? Just no... not sure how to spin that to make it work. I know some cultures put gold coins under the tongues of the dead, which is one possible tie-in, but I'm just not seeing it. On the other hand, trying to 'bribe your way into heaven' (or out of hell) sounds right up her alley.
I like the concept of the Raven Queen, and I like the idea of it being Kiaransalee. I also like the idea of a 'death godddess' being Kelemvor's consort... but not all three. Raven Queen 'shacking up' with Kel is fine, but if she is Kiaransalee, then just no. They seem anathema to one-another. The only way all of it could work together is if there were two different death goddesses - opposed to one-another - and the Raven Queen becomes Kelemvor's consort just to thwart Kiaransalee.
Now, if Midnight/Mystra comes back somehow, that would add another interesting layer to the cosmic drama. Perhaps kel was lonely during her absence, and now that she's back there's a bit of a 'love triangle' going on. On the other hand, if we get a completely different deity of magic, Midnight could possibly return as a newly arisen Raven Queen (and still be opposed to Kiaransalee).
EDIT: Thinking on all of that a bit more, I'm not so sure anymore about Midnight (in any form) coming back as Kel's consort. Its all too 'happy ending' to me. I don't know why, but it just seems to me that their story needs to end on sacrifice (perhaps on both their parts) for the greater good. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 01 Jan 2014 15:23:24 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
879 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2014 : 15:41:42
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You mean like some sort of Faerun-wide evil Nephthys (Guardian of Wealth and Commerce, Protector of the Dead)?
Poor ignored, neglected, forgotten and often disrespected Mulhorandi Pantheon ... |
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Goddess of Death
