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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe
Australia
115 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 09:30:22
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Well met, fellow scribes...
I recently challenged someone on another forum about their interpretation of what may or may not be found in Athkatla in terms of temples to certain gods. They claimed that there would not be a temple dedicated to Lathander in Athkatla but at least one novel makes direct reference to one, when I mentioned this their response was:
"The only time novels are out right canon, is when compared to a video or player-run game. As in, if your player's kill off Elminster, the results don't matter, since nothing you did in that game will ever be considered official canon. Just as no elements of a novel that directly contradicts an official lorebook will ever be canon." so, I wondered where you all stand on this POV. I'd say it was a straw poll but I'm not sure how best to word a poll. I'm interested in your thoughts. For me, as the novel makes reference to a location rather than a character I don't think it's unreasonable to assimilate that location into the canon of a place. do you agree?
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Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and taste good with ketchup.
A Dark Alliance - Beyond Baldur's Gate |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 10:50:03
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Novels are and always have been a source of canon Realmslore.
Sourcebooks do not occupy a place of precedence above novels.
I.e. sourcebooks and novels are equivalent sources of Realmslore.
Video games, like adventures, are branded as Realms products like novels and sourcebooks, but novels do not have the trait of being effected by the decisions of players.
The comparison between novels and video games is flawed. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 11:00:20
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Anything Ed says, Novels, WotC on-line articles, setting books, and other officially licensed material are all considered canon...and yes at times the novels and setting books have conflicting accounts...
But there is a temple of Lathander in Athkatla called the Dome of Rose, if that helps... |
Edited by - ksu_bond on 29 Sep 2013 11:04:39 |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2013 : 11:01:34
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Also, numerous bits and pieces of information about Athkatla has been revealed in various Eye on the Realms articles of late.
That's all 100% canon Realmslore too. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Lily M Green
Learned Scribe
Australia
115 Posts |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 30 Sep 2013 : 13:53:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Novels are and always have been a source of canon Realmslore.
Sourcebooks do not occupy a place of precedence above novels.
I.e. sourcebooks and novels are equivalent sources of Realmslore.
Video games, like adventures, are branded as Realms products like novels and sourcebooks, but novels do not have the trait of being effected by the decisions of players.
The comparison between novels and video games is flawed.
There was a time when tsr decided novels and source books did not need to match or even attempt to match. Everyone considers that a mistake |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 04:23:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
Novels are and always have been a source of canon Realmslore.
Sourcebooks do not occupy a place of precedence above novels.
I.e. sourcebooks and novels are equivalent sources of Realmslore.
Video games, like adventures, are branded as Realms products like novels and sourcebooks, but novels do not have the trait of being effected by the decisions of players.
The comparison between novels and video games is flawed.
There was a time when tsr decided novels and source books did not need to match or even attempt to match. Everyone considers that a mistake
Actually, TSR was pretty good about it, and had a Realms traffic cop to keep mistakes to a minimum. It was when WotC went to 3E that they decided this was unnecessary. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 04:59:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Actually, TSR was pretty good about it, and had a Realms traffic cop to keep mistakes to a minimum. It was when WotC went to 3E that they decided this was unnecessary.
I know that when Bob had his falling out with TSR and stopped writing Realms fiction for a couple of years, the games department kept using his characters (namely Bruenor Battlehammer) and involved him heavily in political affairs in the North, without acknowledging at all what Bob had written about Bruenor, et al, in his last novel at the time (Passage to Dawn). Bob wrote Bruenor out of the throne and Mithral Hall and back into Icewind Dale, but the games department kept calling him King Bruenor and said that he was bringing the Hall into the Alliance of Silverymoon/Luruar/Silver Marches.
So Bob had a heckuva lot of work to try to bring all of that back together when WOTC took over and he started writing Realms fiction again. I've offered my own retcon explanations for some of it, too.
Bob has been described as being completely unaware that the Silver Marches sourcebook had been released when he was doing his book tour for The Thousand Orcs, which was going to be putting his characters smack dab in the middle of the named region. There didn't seem to be much coordination going on, right there.
And somewhere along the line, it was decided on the games side of the house that it sounded like a good idea to sack the deep gnome town of Blingdenstone, which Bob had written was on great terms with the dwarven city of Mithral Hall back in the novel Siege of Darkness, and which had even been described as being hunky-dory as late as the sourcebook Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark. This meme just seemed to come totally from out of left field, and it didn't sit well with a lot of folks who loved the little guys.
So it sounds like there was a big disconnect at the end of 2E and beginning of 3E, both on the parts of the TSR and WOTC Realms games departments. I don't know if it would be right to blame WOTC for that, so much as to say that they inherited a mess from TSR and it lingered with them for a while.
It would be interesting if someone could point out when in 3E that began to turn around, again. That would be a nice little feather in WOTC's cap, methinks.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36968 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 14:12:09
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| TSR was gone by the time all of that happened. And even a casual perusal of the 3E FRCS shows that maintaining continuity was no longer a priority. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Thauranil
Master of Realmslore
India
1591 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 14:59:14
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| It is unfortunate that there is such a disconnect between the novels and the source books. After all in many other franchises such as Warhammer or Star Wars one does not see this problem or at least not to this extent. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6688 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 15:09:43
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The description for the temple to Lathander in Athkatla can be found in the Amn booklet of the "Lands of Intrigue" boxed set at p.28.
It is true that the 3E sourcebook ushered in a bunch of changes in the Realms. Damage control was attempted and succeeded only to an extent. The issue of Blingdenstone was raised. It was destroyed anyway.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Locations in FR: Can a novel description be canon
