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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 00:54:19
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Heh. Since I love them so much, I wanted to get some insight into a few other top dogs in the realm.
Obviously Szass Tam I know of. Necromancer 10, Red wizard 17, Archmage2, CR31 although I assume his stats may have hopped a bit since that old write up.
Aumvor the undying is another. Necromancer 15, Archmage 5, Epic Wizard 7, Netherese Arcanist 5, CR34. His fragmented phylactery spell makes me wonder how the heck anyone can kill him.
Shoon VII obviously, seems to be up there in pure necromancer levels. Necromancer 31, Archmage 5, and is a demilich walking around in the poor young Elven lady's body. no idea what he was/is up to
Whatever happened to Hodkamset? First serving Osiris and then turning to Set. He was a damn powerful Necromancer if I remember correctly and had the nice "Staff of the necromancer"
Anyone have any others to add?
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1628 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 01:38:27
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| Larloch. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 02:24:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Larloch.
Larloch is not a necromancer. He is a generalist. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 02:27:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Velsharoon. 
Pfft. He got run out of Thay by Tam before he got lucky and Talisman showed him how to become divine :p
Anyways, he gone isn't he? |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 03:37:02
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| Rhanguan (Wiz33) and Shangalar the Black (Wiz27) of the Twisted Rune. Not sure if they are 'necromancers' or generalists (proly the latter) and I think one or both of them are dead now. In my homebrew it's possible to specialize LATER and to overcome the limitations of specializing as well. Because of this, there are many more specialists in my campaign world (something I think would actually come naturally to most practitioners of magic as most people would favor this or that school[s] of magic). I would stat both of them as necromancers in my campaign. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 04:01:19
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| Szass Tam, at least circa old stats, was only a generalist as well - not a specialized necromancer, although it seemed implied that his lich status granted him mastery of necromancy sufficient to function as a zulkir. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36891 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 04:44:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Velsharoon.
Pfft. He got run out of Thay by Tam before he got lucky and Talisman showed him how to become divine :p
Anyways, he gone isn't he?
Not sure if he's gone or not, with the stated thing of gods coming back in 5E.
But it doesn't matter if Vellie got run out of town by Szassy or not. Vellie became a god. Szassy did not. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 08:35:28
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quote:
Szass Tam, at least circa old stats, was only a generalist as well - not a specialized necromancer, although it seemed implied that his lich status granted him mastery of necromancy sufficient to function as a zulkir.
Didn't a supplement somewhere state that becoming a lich essentially makes one a necromancer? I think it was the 2e Lords of Darkness accessory. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1882 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 09:21:49
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| Okay just read the Lords of Darkness write-up on the lich. A lich is able to 'impress' one spell of each level into its memory and recast them 66 turns (660 minutes, or every 11 hours) later. I may have 'remembered' that as specializing or mayhaps I did read it somewhere else. *shrugs* |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 11:53:01
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quote:
Originally posted by The Arcanamach
Rhanguan (Wiz33) and Shangalar the Black (Wiz27) of the Twisted Rune. Not sure if they are 'necromancers' or generalists (proly the latter) and I think one or both of them are dead now. In my homebrew it's possible to specialize LATER and to overcome the limitations of specializing as well. Because of this, there are many more specialists in my campaign world (something I think would actually come naturally to most practitioners of magic as most people would favor this or that school[s] of magic). I would stat both of them as necromancers in my campaign.
I think those two are generalists reading the write up. But it did point me to another member of the rune, Kartak Spellseer Necromancer 20, Archmage 5, Epic 6. Apparently was killed but came back a few centuries later due to some carefully worded wish spells.
Thank you :) |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 11:54:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Velsharoon.
Pfft. He got run out of Thay by Tam before he got lucky and Talisman showed him how to become divine :p
Anyways, he gone isn't he?
Not sure if he's gone or not, with the stated thing of gods coming back in 5E.
But it doesn't matter if Vellie got run out of town by Szassy or not. Vellie became a god. Szassy did not.
I get what you are saying, but I was looking mostly for non-divine beings lol |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 11:56:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Szass Tam, at least circa old stats, was only a generalist as well - not a specialized necromancer, although it seemed implied that his lich status granted him mastery of necromancy sufficient to function as a zulkir.
hmmm, His old stats in spellbound still specify necromancer. Dream of red wizard calls him a 24th level magic user in the school of necromancy |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1601 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 12:21:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Larloch.
Larloch is not a necromancer. He is a generalist.
Actually, an Arcanist.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12046 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 15:26:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Velsharoon.
Pfft. He got run out of Thay by Tam before he got lucky and Talisman showed him how to become divine :p
Anyways, he gone isn't he?
The two were enemies. Nothing said that Tam ran him out, nor that Tam was even alive when he was run out. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 17:21:45
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Actually in the old stats from 1e and 2e, it was Shoon VII that was the highest necromancer, even beating Velsharoon or Tam since he was 36th level. Sammaster was up there as well as a 26th level. Phthta Thak, who lives at the Battle of Bones, is 24th. Also can't forget Shradin Mulophor, since he founded Skullport even if he was only 21st level. Sigil Fernel, who is 20th, also is at the Battle of Bones.
Then there's a bunch of them in the teen levels. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 17:45:41
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Tarabbas Mroound, the first Zulkir of Necromancy. I'm not sure if Ed statted him--you may want to ask him in his thread. For someone to literally "disappear into bones" at will, I daresay he might be equal, if not more powerful than, Szass Tam. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12046 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 22:17:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
Actually in the old stats from 1e and 2e, it was Shoon VII that was the highest necromancer, even beating Velsharoon or Tam since he was 36th level. Sammaster was up there as well as a 26th level. Phthta Thak, who lives at the Battle of Bones, is 24th. Also can't forget Shradin Mulophor, since he founded Skullport even if he was only 21st level. Sigil Fernel, who is 20th, also is at the Battle of Bones.
Then there's a bunch of them in the teen levels.
Not wanting a fight here (because I have no more footing than anyone else here), just wanted to state, to my knowledge, we have no idea of Velsharoon's level when he wasn't a deity. Granted, I don't personally believe he was above 36th level. I just want to make sure we're all stating facts here and not feelings. We can say his avatar in 2nd edition was lvl 25 necro/lvl25 cleric, but I don't believe he had any cleric levels in life.... and if we were to use that for comparison... Azuth's avatar is only a lvl 30 wizard/30 cleric. Therefore, I don't believe we can even remotely use avatar levels to determine "when they were mortal" levels.
My personal homebrew version of Velsharoon as a mortal put him at 32nd lvl. I put it at this level because he was stated to be one of the most powerful archmages in the realms in Halls of the High King and the fact that he'd been around at LEAST 500 years or so. My homebrew version of the demi-lich Ythazz Buvaar put him at 27th lvl, but again, no official level of him from 2nd edition as they didn't have templates and levels for demi-liches then.
************From Halls of the High King*****************
Velsharoon, sometimes called #147;the Vaunted,#148; (though not to his face), the renegade archmage of Thay, and one of the most powerful archmages currently active in the Realms, has ahunting gone.
A certain magical process discovered in a very old ruin, somewhere in The Plains of Purple Dust, north of Raurin, requires a potion containing the blood of adventurers-so Velsharoon is seeking adventurers. It is whispered in Soorenar (where Velsharoon has one of his abodes, the Tower Terrible) that the magical process that the archmage is interested in gives the successful follower demi-godhood and attendant great powers!
Velsharoon#146;s many enemies (notably the ruling Red Wizards and the archmages Halder of Delzimmer, Omm Hlandrar of Halruaa, The Simbul of
Aglarond, and Elminster of Shadowdale) are said to be concerned for the safety and stability of the Realms (and their own persons) if Velsharoon achieves his goal. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
12046 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 22:27:48
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Velsharoon.
Pfft. He got run out of Thay by Tam before he got lucky and Talisman showed him how to become divine :p
Anyways, he gone isn't he?
The two were enemies. Nothing said that Tam ran him out, nor that Tam was even alive when he was run out.
I take this back. I reread the Powers & Pantheon entry. It does state that Velsharoon did leave after conflicting with Szass Tam and several other powerful red wizards. So, this puts him leaving at least after 1104 DR (the year Tam was born). However, we also know he was around prior to the country's foundation.
Hmmm, this brings up something I'd never considered much. I wonder if he had any children with a Mulan mother. Lauzoril would make a perfect great-grandson with his almost western look. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 18 Sep 2013 : 23:49:47
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Beg to differ about having velsharoon's levels since we have this:
Velsharoon, 29th, Male Human, Necromancer, Renegade archmage of Thay. Became a deity, Halls of the High King
Page 64, bottem paragraph in the middle column. :)
I don't pull stats out of the air, these are all from stat'd characters since they are in my npc's lists.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 18 Sep 2013 23:57:33 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2013 : 20:52:51
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I would definitely argue that judging lichs level of power based upon their level is wrong. This is only a good judge on their level of advancement before becoming a lich. That said, any undead spellcaster could be added to this list reasonably, whether truly a necromancer or no. I'd add Vampshoon and Druuth Daern from Myth Drannor to those mentioned already.
I'd definitely also add Opawang(The Dead Spirit King from oriental adventures Ochimo The Spirit Warrior), Zhengi The Witch King (30th level undead tyrant from the Bloodstone Lands), Ygnaroth the Necroteer (one of the phaerimm rulers of Ootul - 25th level), Sammaster (of the cotd), Random Reillor mad necromancer who figured out southern magic and pops in and out "Randomly", and Grand Savant Lashyrr Maerdrymm of the First Order from Myth Nantar(LG baelnorn ef DU22) is dukar dualist necromancer. Yes I'm aware several of these have been killed or at least are thought to be dead. |
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Top 5 Most powerful necromancers in the realm
