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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Sep 2013 : 18:19:56
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I've had kind of an off-again, on-again relationship with the online magazines. Sometimes they've been open to my stuff, and other times they've really not. I guess we'll see what happens.
quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lee Byers
Full disclosure: I'm nostalgic for the paper-and-ink Dragon partly because it was a market I could sell Forgotten Realms short stories to.
And I'm glad to see RLB fiction in the magazines--every Dragon and Dungeon should have a piece of fiction, I think.
YMMV, of course. Despite my frequent publications in their world (and the fact that I've written half a dozen FREE WotC stories), I submitted several stories to them and was shot down each and every time. Often, publishing them through the WotC website was the only option. 
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2013 : 19:42:39
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<-< I liked the far realms, I was in my 3.5 horny for lore phase, when I started reading the 4e stuff, it was the books that killed it for me.
Those damn books were geeeeeneeeerrrricccccccc |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 02:41:02
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A shame that Wizbro is considering this at all - removing these publications from their DDI package is going to cost a lot of subscribers. And it‘s not as if they haven‘t figured out that disgruntled fans are often zealous champions of revenue for the competition.
A double shame that Hasbro will sit on their registered trademarks and legal IPs indefinitely, not doing anything with the “brand“ yet being vindictively litigious towards anyone who dares to intrude.
I would‘ve thought WotC smart enough to just merge the titles, duh DUNGEON & DRAGON, and maybe even roll in MTG stuff or whatever in some sort of attempt at saving the classic titles. Y‘know, at least put on a show and pretend they care before making a cold ruthless business decision. I know it ain‘t a big company, and it‘s a small world, but it‘s also a niche market and I would think the RPG publishers would fight tooth and claw for every single fan they have, no less tenaciously than fiends squabbling over precious souls.
Ah well, wait and see. Maybe Wizbro will surprise us with something great ... not holding my breath, but it has happened before. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 03:27:12
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Someone else will fill the gap if Hasbro decides to whack Dungeons and Dragons. Rule sets don't really matter to me. The fate of the Realms most certainly does concern me though. I like Paizo and their adventure paths, but there's something in that setting that's missing that gets me excited like the Realms does.
I just hope they are doing a restructuring of the magazine content. Maybe they will build up a years worth of content before putting it back on the table who knows. Considering this stuff is all in the electronic format I really hope they consider increasing the page count and bringing this into the 21st century. They could really make Dungeon and Dragon into titans again.
Fiction would be great to see again and all our classic staples. But with page count no longer really meaning anything they should take all info that gets cut from products etc and put it into the mags. And think about how much info they could fill the magazines up with stuff like this from past editions (provided it still survives). If supplement books don't sell well, maybe they should address that with the magazines. A Realms backdrop article every single issue would be most excellent.
Ed has a warehouse of info that has never seen the light of day. Start plowing all that info into the digital content. I'm rather curious to see what happens. Like ahem, when do we get the 5E campaign guide. :) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 05:11:04
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| Considering that they are getting ready to roll out a new edition, it does kinda make sense to step back from pushing the current one... Granted, they could run non-edition stuff, like historical backgrounds on weapons/armor, articles on castles, roleplaying guides... Of course, I don't know that they could generate enough of that to fill up what currently passes for a magazine, but it's an option. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7989 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 05:21:37
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Imagine a monthly magazine filled with nothing but fiction, short stories set in the Realms and other D&D campaign worlds. What better way to feed dedicated fans their staple fare and offer enticing tastes to those who have sequestered themselves in one little corner of fantastic time and space?
I‘m sure my interest in “other“ settings could be invigorated by some choice fiction.
Don‘t need rules. Got plenty of rules, can always invent, buy, or download more ... never use them all anyways. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 06:09:55
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That'd be awesome, but WotC won't stray too far from the "It's gotta have rules!" mentality. They've done it a couple of times, but they're obviously not willing to take that chance in the same place they have all of their rules.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 15:32:05
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| Dragon and Dungeon are separate entities because fans wanted both adventures and articles. There was room for (and profit in) two publications, so they made two publications. Given that there's room for (and profit in) another, they should be willing to make another. Particularly now that producing it costs them so much less than it did back in yesteryear, and especially since they have multiple published and popular authors who are eager to fill its "pages" with stories that fans will enjoy. Not jumping on this opportunity seems weird. |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2013 : 23:10:22
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While I do miss the the feel, not to mention the anticipation and excitement, of receiving the printed mags in the mail...I was originally excited by the prospect of having my favorite magazines as e-zines, mainly because the publishing costs could have been diverted to further content if not just outright reduced, and the problem of limited space for content would have been permanently resolved...
Unfortunately, as everyone knows...none of this came to pass...despite the reduction of publishing costs we never really saw a significant change in the subscription costs, nor was there an increase in the size of the articles, the number of articles, much less an increase in the quality of these articles (please don't miss-understand, I'm not saying that these articles were bad, but just that they were no better than they were in print). More to the point, since the magazines were brought "in-house", WotC has effectively reduced the amount of content that is available...
Depending on the outcome of the hiatus, and the GL for the new edition, there may be room for a fanzine (such as the Candlekeep Compendium) to step up and fill the void...and I for one would be willing to help make it a reality... |
Edited by - ksu_bond on 23 Sep 2013 23:12:35 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 12:35:21
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As far as I was concerned, Dungeon & Dragon died a long time ago, when Paizo stopped publishing them.
To me, this is nothing more then a downgrade to a website I haven't been interested in anyhow.
Either way, I am hoping they are planning some sort of replacement along the lines of Paizo's subscriptions, focusing on FR they way Pathfinder focus's on Golarion. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Sep 2013 12:54:53 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3243 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 13:17:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
As far as I was concerned, Dungeon & Dragon died a long time ago, when Paizo stopped publishing them.
To me, this is nothing more then a downgrade to a website I haven't been interested in anyhow.
Either way, I am hoping they are planning some sort of replacement along the lines of Paizo's subscriptions, focusing on FR they way Pathfinder focus's on Golarion.
The only thing that may bring me back into WotC's products would be a Forgotten Realms AP series of books. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 24 Sep 2013 : 14:11:36
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| I really hope the Realms goes the Adventure Path route too. Those books pretty much include adventures, bestiaries, fiction, and backdrop type articles. Doesn't that pretty much cover everything that needs to be published? Even if you never use the actual adventure itself, there is always info, encounters, ideas and plenty of maps to appropriate for whatever campaign your currently running. |
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SirUrza
Master of Realmslore
USA
1283 Posts |
Posted - 25 Sep 2013 : 00:44:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
As far as I was concerned, Dungeon & Dragon died a long time ago, when Paizo stopped publishing them.
Close, for me they died when they stopped being published. IMHO both digital magazines felt like a shadow of their former selves.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
To me, this is nothing more then a downgrade to a website I haven't been interested in anyhow.
Pretty much. The lack of the maptool is the main reason I NEVER subscribed to DDI.
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Either way, I am hoping they are planning some sort of replacement along the lines of Paizo's subscriptions, focusing on FR they way Pathfinder focus's on Golarion.
I certainly hope not, they've done enough damage to the Realms. |
"Evil prevails when good men fail to act."
The original and unapologetic Arilyn, Aribeth, Seoni Fanboy. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2013 : 10:18:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
After reading everybody else's posts, I'm glad I never bothered with DDI. 
Ditto. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2013 : 21:20:40
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| I'm still going to continue my DDI subscription for the game tool they provide and the compendium is extreamly useful. It is sad that we won't be receiving new content for quite a while and I could see why people would get mad if they were mainly concerned with the non-edition material they've been producing for the past 12 months or so. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2013 : 02:37:52
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As soon as they stop providing subscriber FR content for me, my DDI subscription will be history.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2013 : 16:11:27
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Clearly, the D&D team at WotC are being allowed to run their department in a manner inconsistent with a real business. They've got next to no products to sell, they've got a half-finished update of Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Second Edition that still hasn't had the maths ironed out even after two years (and now needs its own second team to handle that), they're losing key people (Bruce Cordell a month or so ago, Jon Schindehette today) and now their bright idea is to scrap the DDi content that is, for most DDi subscribers, what is keeping them as subscribers.
(Personally speaking, I'll resubscribe for the 4E tools but I'm in a very small minority here who actively likes 4E.)
There's either a level of stupid at work here that I have not encountered before or there is a very cunning plan in place that is going to surprise us all.
BTW, for those advocating the return of the two magazines as print products, you should be aware that WotC has killed their magazine distribution channels. It would cost something like two years' revenue (not profit: I really hope people know the difference between these two) to get distribution back in place which would mean the magazines would be unlikely to show a profit for about five years. In other words, it won't be happening. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 11:45:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Clearly, the D&D team at WotC are being allowed to run their department in a manner inconsistent with a real business.
I don't think it's clear at all. We have no indication that it's the D&D Team who's making these decisions. There is a monstrosity of a marketing and brand team that could very well be making these decisions for them. In real business, the people who sign the checks often make the decisions. |
Edited by - Matt James on 01 Oct 2013 11:45:59 |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 14:19:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
Clearly, the D&D team at WotC are being allowed to run their department in a manner inconsistent with a real business.
I don't think it's clear at all. We have no indication that it's the D&D Team who's making these decisions. There is a monstrosity of a marketing and brand team that could very well be making these decisions for them. In real business, the people who sign the checks often make the decisions.
By D&D team I mean the whole of the D&D business - brand, marketing, cheque-signers - and not simply the design team. If you look at my post from that perspective then maybe you will agree.
As for the "real business" comment, yes, my "being allowed" comment also implied that approval is coming from a higher level... and that also doesn't make a lot of sense. Not in a real business, anyway....
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Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 14:22:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
...And I just saw something else to bug me. The newest Dragon has neogi as an Underdark race, hailing from the Far Realm. That pisses me off on so many levels! 
Don't forget, these articles are aimed at DMs who actually run 4E games rather than simply read these articles because they're interested in D&D worlds like the Forgotten Realms. And any post-2E DM is quite unlikely to be familiar with Spelljammer so it makes more sense to simply give them the bog standard "aberrant = Far Realm" origin story.
And for those of us who both run 4E and remember Spelljammer we can keep the old story in our games. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 01 Oct 2013 : 21:14:43
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| If they're going to mine from prior editions, they should remain faithful to prior lore. I've not seen them entirely revamp githyanki or change the background for barghests... Stripping an existing critter of its background instead of creating something new is uninspired at best, lazy at worst. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Derulbaskul
Senior Scribe
Singapore
408 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2013 : 01:12:56
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| The difference is that Spelljammer is now a fairly obscure setting (20+ years ago) and a major turn-off to many. I can understand why they left such a reference off neogi. |
Cheers
D
NB: Please remember: A cannon is a big gun. Canon is what we discuss here. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2013 : 02:48:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
The difference is that Spelljammer is now a fairly obscure setting (20+ years ago) and a major turn-off to many. I can understand why they left such a reference off neogi.
I wouldn't say references to SPELLJAMMER-specific material could be considered obscure. Until the release of 4e D&D, SPELLJAMMER-specific elements -- even spelljamming itself -- were almost annually referenced and detailed in parts throughout much of the 3e/3.5e material until 2008. Both the published DRAGON and DUNGEON Magazines also provided a wealth of updated material for the setting and it's particular elements for the 3e rules. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Shemmy
Senior Scribe
USA
492 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2013 : 02:51:41
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
The difference is that Spelljammer is now a fairly obscure setting (20+ years ago) and a major turn-off to many. I can understand why they left such a reference off neogi.
I wouldn't say references to SPELLJAMMER-specific material could be considered obscure. Until the release of 4e D&D, SPELLJAMMER-specific elements -- even spelljamming itself -- was almost annually referenced and detailed in parts throughout much of the 3e/3.5e material until 2008.
Absolutely. Even with Spelljammer proper being out of print as a distinct campaign setting, neogi references in and out of FR material up till 2008 retained continuity with their origin in SJ, and spelljamming itself and races from outer space was all over the place.
It's poor form to randomly alter a race's preexistant lore, or just contravene existing continuity. |
Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2013 : 04:20:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Derulbaskul
The difference is that Spelljammer is now a fairly obscure setting (20+ years ago) and a major turn-off to many. I can understand why they left such a reference off neogi.
So if Spelljammer is so obscure, how can it be a major turn-off? And if it is a turn-off, why retcon one of its signature races? Neogi are not just iconic, they are signature creatures of the setting, like draconians are for Dragonlance. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 02 Oct 2013 04:21:16 |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2013 : 09:21:13
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One sentance to WotC: STOP BEING "INNOVATIVE" AND RESPECT THE LORE!
First they mess up the fiends and the planes with 4e and now they mess with spelljammer lore? They are aware that they push away Fans by that move? Right? |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 02 Oct 2013 : 14:28:59
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| So if I subscribe in December for one month for 9.95 $, I can download every single issue of Dragon and Dungeon that has been produced for D&D Insider? Sounds not too bad. |
Edited by - Thieran on 02 Oct 2013 14:29:45 |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 04 Oct 2013 : 01:10:34
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| That is correct...I did that in August when I finally made the mistake of signing up... |
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Absatalar
Acolyte
Spain
2 Posts |
Posted - 02 Aug 2014 : 17:37:29
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I know this thread is old.
Anyway, does anyone know what will happen to the Dragon/Dungeon magazines? I'm trying to jump from AD&D 2E to 5E and I think all the material from the mags would be handy. |
Playing old AD&D 2e in Spain! |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2014 : 02:46:19
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I think it's pretty certain that they'll be re-released again, but in the digital format, not paper (unfortunately). I expect that there will be news at GENCON as to when they are likely to return. Can't do DUNGEON until all the rules are out there officially. I'm guessing they'll kick off in the new year.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Going Dark - DUNGEON and Dragon Magazines
