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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
 Posted - 17 Apr 2014 : 06:21:47
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Might be time to wind up my DDI subscription again. No Dragon magazine since January. Clearly WotC don't want my money.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2014 : 06:27:42
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Nothing since January...weird huh?
Maybe we should start a new company that offers cool new goodies!  |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2014 : 06:44:10
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| It's nothing new, they've been telling us since last September that Dragon and Dungeon magazines are going on hiatus for a while. The article "Waiting for issue 222" clearly states that ALL their investment is going into the next edition and, after that comes out this year (sometime in summer, from what I've heard) there's a good chance Dungeon and Dragon magazine will come back too. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2014 : 08:21:15
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Sounds like you're right and they dont want your money George. They dont want mine either, otherwise they would have continued with the 1370's timeline.
If they can't afford to keep two (now very small compared to older incarnations) online magazines publishing on a regular basis; magazines which largely rely on content from independent writers, then it seems to me that WoTC are in big trouble with ever dwindling resources and revenue.
I'm with Dalor. If a fanzine was created containing content from the past greats like George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Steven Schend, and other great writers from FR past, then that would get all my money. And if you didnt sell it, merely accepted donations for continued release over the internet, then you might not infringe any copyrights.
Then we can continue with the proper realms (circa 1371/2) onwards and ignore the imitation realms (circa 1485). We could develop such great plot hooks as the Harper Schism, Reunification of Amn, and the Manshoon Wars, and give them proper conclusions.
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2014 : 14:14:04
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2014 : 14:40:32
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Sounds like you're right and they dont want your money George. They dont want mine either, otherwise they would have continued with the 1370's timeline.
If they can't afford to keep two (now very small compared to older incarnations) online magazines publishing on a regular basis; magazines which largely rely on content from independent writers, then it seems to me that WoTC are in big trouble with ever dwindling resources and revenue.
I'm with Dalor. If a fanzine was created containing content from the past greats like George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Steven Schend, and other great writers from FR past, then that would get all my money. And if you didnt sell it, merely accepted donations for continued release over the internet, then you might not infringe any copyrights.
Then we can continue with the proper realms (circa 1371/2) onwards and ignore the imitation realms (circa 1485). We could develop such great plot hooks as the Harper Schism, Reunification of Amn, and the Manshoon Wars, and give them proper conclusions.
So true. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36804 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2014 : 21:30:00
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As much as I dislike defending WotC, I will defend putting the magazines on hiatus. The magazines are not what they once were... Once, they were magazines for gamers -- *all* gamers, regardless of what the game was. Now it's an in-house publication, focusing solely on the current edition of D&D. Given that most of their resources are currently devoted to the newest, still-unpublished ruleset, it makes sense that they are not going to waste effort putting out material that they know is about to be invalidated. In fact, I remember more than a few complaints about it when they did put out soon-to-be-invalidated material, shortly before the announcement of 4E.
Now, I'll be the first to grant that they could be given us more edition-neutral stuff, like Edlore, or maybe adventures like the Baldur's Gate one that they upfront said use non-finalized rules... But the magazines have fallen far from what they once were, and I'm not going to knock them concentrating their resources on the major stuff.
Besides, it's not just the 5E rules they are working on -- we know there is a lot of setting material in the works. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2014 : 22:52:06
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| I understand that Dragon and Dungeon have been on hiatus, but why is Wizards still taking people's money? Shouldn't they have cancelled everyone's recurring billing after the last issue was put up? |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2014 : 23:39:18
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| The magazines are not the only thing WotC offers as part of the all-in-one subscription. That and you have access to all the back issues and can download them. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4441 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2014 : 23:42:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Eilserus
I understand that Dragon and Dungeon have been on hiatus, but why is Wizards still taking people's money? Shouldn't they have cancelled everyone's recurring billing after the last issue was put up?
Because, as Jeremy stated, having access to all the back up issues for download is a major boon. Plus your subscription is linked to the D&D Compendium, Character Builder, and Adventure Tools. These are handy things to have when running 4E games. |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2014 : 05:50:03
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I'm with Dalor. If a fanzine was created containing content from the past greats like George Krashos, Eric Boyd, Steven Schend, and other great writers from FR past, then that would get all my money. And if you didn't sell it, merely accepted donations for continued release over the internet, then you might not infringe any copyrights.
Why not just do it for the sake of doing it, without accepting "donations" (which would infringe monstrously, btw), and without predicating the effort on the demise of D&D and the wider Realms?
I can't speak for any of these writers. But something tells me there would be hesitancy around joining a fan project that had as one of its underpinnings a real disdain for the Realms and the fine work done by those writer's peers (including Ed Greenwood). |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
Edited by - Jeremy Grenemyer on 19 Apr 2014 06:32:32 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 19 Apr 2014 : 07:56:43
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Don't get me wrong: I'm all for fan and lore collection projects.
I think the Realms needs a wider presence on the internet than the WotC website, Candlekeep and Loremaster.org, and one of the ways to do that is to create Realms content as much as possible.
It's just that there's no net positive if fan projects and fan sites fail to follow the example of designers who have worked on the Realms in the past, in that you don't see them knocking the Realms as it exist today.
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Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6361 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31774 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2014 : 02:32:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Jeremy Grenemyer
I think the Realms needs a wider presence on the internet than the WotC website, Candlekeep and Loremaster.org, ...
Indeed. I still reflect happily, back on the days when both the Wizards boards and Candlekeep held such a place of prominence in the minds of many Realms fans across the world.
I think that, with the fading, somewhat, of the Realms into a more digital realm, it's become harder for sites like Candlekeep to generate interest, because not every fan can, or, will pay for digital content. So the opportunities for discussing/investing in new lore for fans, fades somewhat, as well. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Apr 2014 : 14:43:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Nothing since January...weird huh?
Maybe we should start a new company that offers cool new goodies!
A NEW company you say? Cool goodies you say? Lederhosen you say? 
Will there be oodles of maps and content, some of which will be FREE? 
Where do I sign up? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 22 Apr 2014 14:44:40 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6666 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2014 : 00:26:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
Because, as Jeremy stated, having access to all the back up issues for download is a major boon. Plus your subscription is linked to the D&D Compendium, Character Builder, and Adventure Tools. These are handy things to have when running 4E games.
Ah yes, but I haven't rolled a die in anger in over 2 decades. I only subscribed for the exclusive FR lore. There hasn't been any for 3 months. Here endeth the subscription.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Jeremy Grenemyer
Great Reader
USA
2717 Posts |
Posted - 23 Apr 2014 : 02:27:27
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| I had subscribed solely for the Realmslore as well, and ended my subscription once I learned I would no longer have access to new lore via the online magazines. |
Look for me and my content at EN World (user name: sanishiver). |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 01 May 2014 : 00:33:52
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WotC's decision to hiatus the two digital magazines seems silly somehow (imo). I would think there would be some value in maintaining uninterrupted content continuity through the transition, use the magazines to supercharge the existing fanbase.
Compare to Pathways magazine for Pathfinder released monthly as a free PDF by Rite Publishing (a third party publisher for Pathfinder). Rite Publishing is one guy running the company out of his home office with a network of freelancers (everything from writers, designers, artists, editors, etc.). They've managed to put out a free publication consistently for three years (up to Issue #37). The primary budget is Rite Publishing's own advertising funds (they opt to do this instead of regular advertising) plus selling ad space to other companies. The articles are written by regular freelancers, not just for Rite or other third party companies, but many who have worked directly for Paizo.
I'm not claiming Pathways is comparable in size (or even quality, and it's not about that) to Dragon/Dungeon, but given one is running on the budget from a one-man operation and the other is tied to a subscription service with many, many thousands of customers and backed by company of WotC's size and market position, continuing the digital magazines in some capacity would seem ... trivial.
At worse, it would be a loss leader.
Pathways is about one-half advertisements, but between the articles and the ads, it's worth the price of admission. Which is ... nothing.
Red Bull, Monster Energy Drink, and 5-Hour Power give out generous free samples in front of college campuses and summer fairs for a reason and it's not to lose money.
Instead of charging for Dragon and then putting them on hiatus for now, I think WotC could have slaughtered the competition already by putting out a regular (monthly or bimonthly) free or low cost ($0.99) mini-zine, a constantly renewed sampler, a truncated Dragon (call it the Dragon Whelp or something) with a few select articles from the big brother plus some unique pieces, which could just be things like reviews, comic strips, or preview chapters for their latest novel, some stuff that may be released free anyway.
Packed it all with colorful ads for WotC stuff (D&D, settings, miniatures, Magic and other card games, novels) and also related geek stuff. It could be kept in company, so it could stick with Transformers, GI Joe, My Little Pony ads (would pay for itself). There is a lot of overlap between potential audiences.
Stick it on DnDClassics, where it works its way on the OBS charts, bumping out the other RPG offerings. Put the free download link into QR codes on game/book/toy store displays and standees and WotC has access to the foot traffic going into those stores. |
Edited by - Dark Wizard on 01 May 2014 00:40:36 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 01:03:40
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The people in charge of making these types of decisions are not gamers, they are bookkeepers, and somebody obviously thought it would be prudent to 'cut their losses'. This is what happens when decision-makers do not understand the product (or service) they are in charge of. There is no way in hell anyone with ANY business-savvy would let the magazine just languish (or disappear!) mere months before a major release. That is stupidity of the highest magnitude.
I wish them well. If not, Ravenlore is hiring.....
We don't offer kickboxing though. Sorry, nothing but RPG stuff from us. We feel quality can only be had when everyone's heart is in it.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Eilserus
Master of Realmslore
USA
1446 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 02:55:07
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If I recall, D&D has its budget set by Hasbro, doesn't get increases (without sales to back it up) and naturally has to hit certain target numbers with sales. My guess is they are pumping all their money into The Sundering and 5E instead of being spread too thin. I would imagine that Wizards doesn't have the same flexibility in how to run things as the Pathfinder folks do.
Completely agree its lame we don't have any Dragon or Dungeon, but I imagine it all comes down to some Hasbro bean counter. Frankly it wouldn't surprise me if Wizards budget was cut due to poor performance of 4E and the mags had to go, with the intention of them being brought back if 5E is successful. |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2014 : 22:26:27
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It is precisely for business and "bean-counting" reasons that the decision seems silly. You have to sprout a few beans to grow beanstalks to get more beans.
A third-party publisher is able to consistently offer a free publication using its advertising budget. The advertising budget for D&D (not counting WotC's MtG side) probably exceeds the entire operating budget of a 3PP, to say nothing of the comparably staggering income from DDI. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2014 : 17:39:43
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Yup.
This like someone saying, "we are spending way to much money on seeds! We do not make money off of seeds! From now on we just focus on growing plants! No more seed-buying by us!"
Thus my statement about not understanding the product (or even business-in-general, for that matter). This is not just a Hasbro-thing, mind you - this is just the state of current corporate America. They just want to get money out, without pouring any funds in; they are CLUELESS. They have completely forgotten about consumer-happiness and depend upon globalization for unlimited first-time buyers. That may work (for some time) with certain products/services (given the 8 billion people on Earth), but it simply does not work with a niche hobby. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 03 May 2014 : 21:29:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Yup.
This like someone saying, "we are spending way to much money on seeds! We do not make money off of seeds! From now on we just focus on growing plants! No more seed-buying by us!"
Thus my statement about not understanding the product (or even business-in-general, for that matter). This is not just a Hasbro-thing, mind you - this is just the state of current corporate America. They just want to get money out, without pouring any funds in; they are CLUELESS. They have completely forgotten about consumer-happiness and depend upon globalization for unlimited first-time buyers. That may work (for some time) with certain products/services (given the 8 billion people on Earth), but it simply does not work with a niche hobby.
Couldn't agree with you more. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2014 : 15:05:56
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| I haven't been much of a fan of Dragon since it became digital... maybe I'm just too old fashioned. I honestly didn't even know Dungeon had made it that far. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2428 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2014 : 08:50:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
This is not just a Hasbro-thing, mind you - this is just the state of current corporate America. They just want to get money out, without pouring any funds in; they are CLUELESS.
They are bureaucrats. Of the same sort that was called "an educated Marxist" in Uncle Joe's cabinet.
What other result could one possibly expect?
quote:
They have completely forgotten about consumer-happiness and depend upon globalization for unlimited first-time buyers. That may work (for some time) with certain products/services (given the 8 billion people on Earth), but it simply does not work with a niche hobby.
It's called "The King's Cameleopard".  |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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ZeshinX
Learned Scribe
Canada
210 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jul 2014 : 15:07:23
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| I ignore, almost completely, the digital side of tabletop gaming. I'd occasionally check the site for errata and whatnot, but I won't pay for a subscription to a virtual product. Ever. |
"...because despite the best advice of those who know what they are talking about, other people insist on doing the most massively stupid things."
-Galen, technomage |
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FR in Dragon magazine
